Zenless Zone Zero Discussion Thread

[BiggestOpp]

Let’s give Miyabi unknown stats for base and then void hunter stats with FoxFire

 

[Infinity_Dragon]

It's a technique she uses, not a separate source of power
So it doesn't really make sense for it to empower her, like the Void Hunter Weapons empower Miyabi and Ye Shunguang

Again, correct me if I’m wrong anywhere but could be that she needs to conjure the Qingming Bird at full size to amp herself with the full power of the technique as opposed to just has immediate access to said power say with a mere flex.

Like in the fight with Miyabi she unleashed more power to drive Miyabi back but then afterward concentrated the auric ink to make the large version which, slowing down the video for me, seemed to cover her in its aura for their final clash and her ult where she concentrated the auric ink and launched it into the sky, which came down back visibly from what I see as a larger version (No idea if it’s full size but if different from the one she glides with) on her and seemingly empowered her for the ult.

 

[ItzLivyx]

Let’s give Miyabi unknown stats for base and then void hunter stats with FoxFire

Unknown? Mann... we could make a zzz character tier 9 again instead... just saying............

 

[PandaCooler]

finished 2.7's story earlier today

Spoiler: 2.7 spoilers

very cool as a whole. short, but sweet. the hollow champion setting is really cool, gave me major JJK culling games vibes. cissia was great, i really enjoy her as a character and i think she's both sweet and extremely entertaining. billy is billy, so he's cool (as always), and promeia was also cool, very intrigued to see more of her backstory and relationship with cissia (the fight scene between the two was absolutely peak.) as far as the new characters go, i liked em all, velina and norma seem interesting, romuel was a really cool villain, but i'm definitely the most interested in ramiel. her ability to essentially put people in suspended animation is extremely OP. very curious to see more of her, especially with confirmation that she is in fact from roscaelifer. not much else to say, but yeah, the story was great. voice acting was on point too, especially for both cissia and romuel (i play in english and their VAs killed it)

as far as feats go, i think the two main things are cissia and promeia's fight and romuel himself. promeia was basically moving fast enough to blitz cissia, so her speed might be something worth calcing. as for romuel, i think he's probably up there as being one of the stronger characters in verse, as he was basically handling a 4v1 against lighter, lucy, billy and cissia

Don't really agree with the bottom assessment.

Just because a fight has multiple people doesn't mean it necessitated those people.

additionally before the fight, they explicitly pointed out that Cissia was sitting out the fight

and after the fight Lucy states "Doesn't look like anybody got injured."

And that's also ignoring that before the fight they repeatedly underlined that the SoC side were going through a significantly harder gauntlet than what Cissia had to deal with.

 

[Sooshirohl]

Don't really agree with the bottom assessment.

Just because a fight has multiple people doesn't mean it necessitated those people.

additionally before the fight, they explicitly pointed out that Cissia was sitting out the fight

and after the fight Lucy states "Doesn't look like anybody got injured."

And that's also ignoring that before the fight they repeatedly underlined that the SoC side were going through a significantly harder gauntlet than what Cissia had to deal with.

pretty sure cissia joins the fight as soon as it starts. iirc she has dialogue asking whether or not she really has to go through with the fight before deciding that she's gonna give it her all against romuel. the SoC were basically running a gauntlet yeah but they didn't seem that tired by the time they got to romuel. i think the implication was more that they were kinda just running through fodder before getting to romuel. if any of the members were really exhausted by the people they had to fight through, i definitely would've assumed they'd at least comment on it or something. even if you wanna assume they were at least somewhat fatigued or not going all out, romuel still handling a 4v1 at least deserves some credit imo

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

 

[BiggestOpp]

pretty sure cissia joins the fight as soon as it starts. iirc she has dialogue asking whether or not she really has to go through with the fight before deciding that she's gonna give it her all against romuel. the SoC were basically running a gauntlet yeah but they didn't seem that tired by the time they got to romuel. i think the implication was more that they were kinda just running through fodder before getting to romuel. if any of the members were really exhausted by the people they had to fight through, i definitely would've assumed they'd at least comment on it or something. even if you wanna assume they were at least somewhat fatigued or not going all out, romuel still handling a 4v1 at least deserves some credit imo

Billy said Romeul “wasn’t a pushover” so take that how you will.
Even if you exclude Cissia, fighting Billy and lighter alone and not instantly dying is a feat in itself. Having to fight Lighter in h2h combat while Billy is shooting from range??? Lucy, while not as strong as the other two, can attack from range and h2h.
And if Cissia really did join in the fight, then that’s just even more problems and Romeul survived????
He’s not a void hunter threat, but amongst the normal people he is definitely one of the stronger ones.
I think it being a relatively short patch kinda screwed him over since bosses usually get cutscenes showcasing their power/a second phase.
Bro didn’t get a single cutscene

 

[ItzLivyx]

And who the h is Romeul

 

[Sooshirohl]

And who the h is Romeul

evil scary wolf guy from the 2.7 main story

 

[ItzLivyx]

evil scary wolf guy from the 2.7 main story

ew

 

[MaskedDragon908]

evil scary wolf guy from the 2.7 main story

kind of sad we didn't get more about the Outer Ring in this patch
Although, the Sweepers are interesting
Calydon seemed a lot more ruthless back then

Maybe Promeia will shed some more light on things
In the next patch
Also want to know where she ranks in terms of power
She clears Cissia low-diff, and should be comparable to Romeul, who, as you mentioned, seems above regular Agents

 

[Sooshirohl]

kind of sad we didn't get more about the Outer Ring in this patch
Although, the Sweepers are interesting
Calydon seemed a lot more ruthless back then

Maybe Promeia will shed some more light on things
In the next patch
Also want to know where she ranks in terms of power
She clears Cissia low-diff, and should be comparable to Romeul, who, as you mentioned, seems above regular Agents

honestly really surprised we didn't get any interactions at all between romuel/cissia and billy. kinda figured they'd at least recognize the former champion of the outer ring, or maybe he just looked super different compared to how he looks now. with him re-donning the red scarf with his upgraded S-rank version, i wonder if maybe they'll point it out

as far as power ranking goes, yeah i think she's probably up there. has a lot of former experience being a part of the cleaners and narratively speaking she should at least be comparable to romuel who, like you said, was able to handle a 4v1 against billy, lighter, cissia and lucy

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

honestly really surprised we didn't get any interactions at all between romuel/cissia and billy. kinda figured they'd at least recognize the former champion of the outer ring, or maybe he just looked super different compared to how he looks now. with him re-donning the red scarf with his upgraded S-rank version, i wonder if maybe they'll point it out

as far as power ranking goes, yeah i think she's probably up there. has a lot of former experience being a part of the cleaners and narratively speaking she should at least be comparable to romuel who, like you said, was able to handle a 4v1 against billy, lighter, cissia and lucy

I'm still curious if she's up there with Banyue, considering Promeia is called as Krampus "big weapon" or what it's called in the story (I forgor so correct me lel), but as far as we know, Banyue is currently the strongest non-VH agent atm

 

[PandaCooler]

I'm still curious if she's up there with Banyue, considering Promeia is called as Krampus "big weapon" or what it's called in the story (I forgor so correct me lel), but as far as we know, Banyue is currently the strongest non-VH agent atm

There's no confirmation of that.

We only know he's stronger than some other agents. But there's nothing in the series that states he's the strongest outside of the Void Hunters.

He only really stands out because he's got one of the best calc'd feats but nothing in the narrative really says he's a step beyond everyone.


I even brought up earlier that he tied with Lighter.

 

[MaskedDragon908]

We only know he's stronger than some other agents. But there's nothing in the series that states he's the strongest outside of the Void Hunters.

He only really stands out because he's got one of the best calc'd feats but nothing in the narrative really says he's a step beyond everyone.


I even brought up earlier that he tied with Lighter.

While this is true, no other character currently has solid scaling to a serious Banyue.
Banyue holds back against the Wandering Hunter, and it flees from him.
You said "Banyue was asked by his students about a particular fighting style", which implies that he is comparing his martial arts to Lighter's.
They "went all-out", but if it's just martial arts then Masked isn't sure he would use his "Visage of Wrath" and Earth Manipulation against Lighter.

It's possible that Lighter fully scales, but we have no idea what happened during the duel.
He should be capable of damaging enemies that can withstand his Earth Manipulation with his fists,
But since no one scales to his "Visage of Wrath" (besides Void Hunters), there's no way to prove it.

Edit: Masked checked the link.
Banyue says "Victory is nothing more than a plain outcome - that's not what I'm after"
Lighter says "Only by going in with a mindset of absolute victory can you truly show respect to your opponent"
Banyue says "That's good Lighter. I'll also give you my utmost respect in our match"

 

[BiggestOpp]

There's no confirmation of that.

We only know he's stronger than some other agents. But there's nothing in the series that states he's the strongest outside of the Void Hunters.

He only really stands out because he's got one of the best calc'd feats but nothing in the narrative really says he's a step beyond everyone.

I mean, that’s just it isn’t it?
Narratively, we know he’s strong but there’s nothing indicating whether he’s SUPER strong or on par with the other “strong” agents in the series (outside of void hunters).

The closest we got is Lighter, but as Masked pointed out, we know absolutely nothing of how it took place. I absolutely doubt Banyue used his wrath state against Lighter. They’re sparring, not trying to kill each other.

Without more lore given to us, Banyue will continue being the strongest Agent behind void hunters.

 

[BiggestOpp]

While I’m here can someone send me a video of what happens when you fail to destroy Bringer’s hand

 

[MaskedDragon908]

While I’m here can someone send me a video of what happens when you fail to destroy Bringer’s hand

You mean this?

Edit: Removed embed and fixed link.
He's got a lot of range
The attacks he does with electricity seem to be emanating from the hand, not from the sky.
Not really sure, though

 

[Sooshirohl]

While this is true, no other character currently has solid scaling to a serious Banyue.
Banyue holds back against the Wandering Hunter, and it flees from him.
You said "Banyue was asked by his students about a particular fighting style", which implies that he is comparing his martial arts to Lighter's.
They "went all-out", but if it's just martial arts then Masked isn't sure he would use his "Visage of Wrath" and Earth Manipulation against Lighter.

It's possible that Lighter fully scales, but we have no idea what happened during the duel.
He should be capable of damaging enemies that can withstand his Earth Manipulation with his fists,
But since no one scales to his "Visage of Wrath" (besides Void Hunters), there's no way to prove it.

Edit: Masked checked the link.
Banyue says "Victory is nothing more than a plain outcome - that's not what I'm after"
Lighter says "Only by going in with a mindset of absolute victory can you truly show respect to your opponent"
Banyue says "That's good Lighter. I'll also give you my utmost respect in our match"

I mean, that’s just it isn’t it?
Narratively, we know he’s strong but there’s nothing indicating whether he’s SUPER strong or on par with the other “strong” agents in the series (outside of void hunters).

The closest we got is Lighter, but as Masked pointed out, we know absolutely nothing of how it took place. I absolutely doubt Banyue used his wrath state against Lighter. They’re sparring, not trying to kill each other.

Without more lore given to us, Banyue will continue being the strongest Agent behind void hunters.

i think both narrative and on-screen feats just support banyue currently being the strongest non-VH agent we have as of now yeah. manato pretty blatantly admitted inferiority to him and he was able to handle wandering hunter by himself and only didn't finish it off because it chose to flee right as he was about to start fighting seriously. the same wandering hunter had to get jumped by manato, lucia, and yidhari to put it down. obviously not saying manato, yidhari, or lucia are super crazy top tiers as far as scaling goes or anything like that but i think the narrative at least makes it pretty clear how strong banyue is when three characters going all out to put down an enemy is the equivalent to him not even fighting at full power (which we know is true given he didn't use his wrathful state against the wandering hunter in their brief scuffle)

also, yixuan went out of her way to ask banyue for help while she was MIA during the events of 2.4's story. i think that's just more evidence supporting banyue's strength when a character we know is a top tier acknowledges and trusts his strength enough to handle and take care of things in her absence

 

[PandaCooler]

I just don't think any of that is a particularly noteworthy benchmark.

Manato remarking that Banyue is well beyond him and the rest of Spookshack kinda falls apart when you remember that that entire group are kids who are still in highschool/early college.

Also being asked to stand in for Yixuan kinda falls flat when you remember Banyue is the only other martial arts teacher and the other martial artists are desciples like Jufufu and Pan yinhu.

the NEDF aren't actively stationed in Waifei penninsula and no other substantive faction exists in that city.

It'd be one thing if it was in a major hub like lumina where many major factions hang out.

But the standing comparative people that actually are actively in Waifei are a bunch of kids and Yixuan's students.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I just don't think any of that is a particularly noteworthy benchmark.

Manato remarking that Banyue is well beyond him and the rest of Spookshack kinda falls apart when you remember that that entire group are kids who are still in highschool/early college.

Also being asked to stand in for Yixuan kinda falls flat when you remember Banyue is the only other martial arts teacher and the other martial artists are desciples like Jufufu and Pan yinhu.

the NEDF aren't actively stationed in Waifei penninsula and no other substantive faction exists in that city.

It'd be one thing if it was in a major hub like lumina where many major factions hang out.

But the standing comparative people that actually are actively in Waifei are a bunch of kids and Yixuan's students.

Sound like a downplay

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Okay haha jackass aside, what I'm worried is the future chain scaling if it's proven right that Promeia = Banyue, because that mean Billy might likely scale to her, which in turns can be messy for the others who are scaled to him like Lighter for example (and even maybe Anby if she's going to be put on his level too then it might impacting the Obol squad too which might be a nightmare to us lmao)
Of course this is just a speculation ATM so we'll see on the next patch

 

[Naito-desu]

ZZZ scaling is just wack tbh, there's a strong argument for cross-scaling and if Kisaragi's predictions come true, it might be mired in even more questionable scaling

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Add ZZZ into the tree for even more wack scaling fr

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

ZZZ scaling is just wack tbh, there's a strong argument for cross-scaling and if Kisaragi's predictions come true, it might be mired in even more questionable scaling

Yeah, I'm favor for Banyue being the strongest non-VH agent but I can't deny his scaling with Promeia will be nightmarish, at least Cissia wouldn't scaled to her I can sure, but the rest like Anby/Obol squad and SoC will be the real challenge

 

[Sooshirohl]

ZZZ scaling is just wack tbh, there's a strong argument for cross-scaling and if Kisaragi's predictions come true, it might be mired in even more questionable scaling

promeia's gonna scale to banyue and then billy's gonna scale to promeia and then anby's gonna scale to billy but then lighter will also scale to billy and then in turn caesar will scale to lighter and then eventually the entire verse is gonna be 7-C

"and when everyone's 7-C....no one will be"

 

[BiggestOpp]

ZZZ scaling is just wack tbh, there's a strong argument for cross-scaling and if Kisaragi's predictions come true, it might be mired in even more questionable scaling

That’d be lame ngl. ZZZ is urban asf it’s easy as hell to give them good feats.
If they get scaling due to HSR I’d probably drop powerscaling for this verse. Slop scaling is the worse, I’d hope for ZZZ to be more grounded like MHA.

 

[BiggestOpp]

promeia's gonna scale to banyue and then billy's gonna scale to promeia and then anby's gonna scale to billy but then lighter will also scale to billy and then in turn caesar will scale to lighter and then eventually the entire verse is gonna be 7-C

"and when everyone's 7-C....no one will be"

Devs just need to get on their shit and give us feats bruh. Game 2 years old and if it wasn’t for Banyue we’d be capped at building level ts makes no sense

 

[Sooshirohl]

That’d be lame ngl. ZZZ is urban asf it’s easy as hell to give them good feats.
If they get scaling due to HSR I’d probably drop powerscaling for this verse. Slop scaling is the worse, I’d hope for ZZZ to be more grounded like MHA.

yeah i really hope ZZZ doesn't go cosmic the grounded nature of the verse is part of why i like it so much and i think it adds a nice balance especially compared to it's hoyo sisters. you got a nice level of progression between ZZZ, genshin and HSR as far as scaling goes

it's also why i'm partially worried about what the creator and the hollowfied moon entails. if those are our gateway into cosmic level stuff then i'm really not gonna be looking forward to it tbh

 

[BiggestOpp]

yeah i really hope ZZZ doesn't go cosmic the grounded nature of the verse is part of why i like it so much and i think it adds a nice balance especially compared to it's hoyo sisters. you got a nice level of progression between ZZZ, genshin and HSR as far as scaling goes

it's also why i'm partially worried about what the creator and the hollowfied moon entails. if those are our gateway into cosmic level stuff then i'm really not gonna be looking forward to it tbh

My sweet spot would be mountain- country. As long as it doesn’t hit cosmic I’ll be fine.
I just don’t know what to expect, 2 years in and we have nothing.
HSR was galaxy level on release

 

[Sooshirohl]

My sweet spot would be mountain- country. As long as it doesn’t hit cosmic I’ll be fine.
I just don’t know what to expect, 2 years in and we have nothing.
HSR was galaxy level on release

i can see the verse getting into those ranges yeah, especially given the implications about hollows and the damage they've seemingly caused to earth as a whole

honestly just let the verse cap out at like country-continental at most, give us some good hax with hollow/ether shenanigans and i'll be satisfied

 

[Naito-desu]

That’d be lame ngl. ZZZ is urban asf it’s easy as hell to give them good feats.
If they get scaling due to HSR I’d probably drop powerscaling for this verse. Slop scaling is the worse, I’d hope for ZZZ to be more grounded like MHA.

Imagine everyone just becomes 3-C or 1-B A verse just gets boring when it just becomes Tier 2 and Tier 1 slop like Final Fantasy

 

[BiggestOpp]

Imagine everyone just becomes 3-C or 1-B A verse just gets boring when it just becomes Tier 2 and Tier 1 slop like Final Fantasy

Holy shit you’re right, and what’s funny about that is I enjoyed FF as a child. Once I got older and into powerscaling I just looked at ts like this 🫩

 

[ItzLivyx]

The idea of ZZZ chars possibly becoming Tier 6 someday is so funny to me, cause wdym we could have MHA-type scaling where, say, Miyabi goes from like Town level to freaking Country/Continental (or much higher..which I think would prob be far worse)

Not like it matters much but um, I'd personally cap the verse at either Small City level or Large Island level at most.. and my reasons are too dumb so i wont say themm

 

[PandaCooler]

Curious if anything concrete can be gained from this speed wise



Think this might come out to something substantially more impressive than the other bullet calcs

 

[MaskedDragon908]

Curious if anything concrete can be gained from this speed wise

Think this might come out to something substantially more impressive than the other bullet calcs

More impressive? It's possible, considering the distances she moves
Both her jumping onto the desk
and her tail travels a fair distance to hit that bullet

Substantially? That's a bit subjective.
Soldier 11 blocking two bullets with a single swing should be similar, if not superior in speed, especially if Masked finds the frames
The next part, where she swings her sword in several arcs, is also fairly impressive
In her character teaser, she also deflects several bullets at near point-blank range

The other thing
Is that the bullets in Cissia's trailer are fired from an Uzi Submachine Gun
Whereas the Rebels in ZZZ tend to use assault rifles, although what kind is uncertain

 

[PandaCooler]

More impressive? It's possible, considering the distances she moves
Both her jumping onto the desk
and her tail travels a fair distance to hit that bullet

Substantially? That's a bit subjective.
Soldier 11 blocking two bullets with a single swing should be similar, if not superior in speed, especially if Masked finds the frames
The next part, where she swings her sword in several arcs, is also fairly impressive
In her character teaser, she also deflects several bullets at near point-blank range

The other thing
Is that the bullets in Cissia's trailer are fired from an Uzi Submachine Gun
Whereas the Rebels in ZZZ tend to use assault rifles, although what kind is uncertain

Gee, that sure is interesting.

Mind showing me the calcs of either of those moments? Cause I'm pretty sure I said calcs and not just "Any moment bullets were deflected."

That second video is also absolutely worthless in terms of garnering anything due to inability to determine distance.

 

[MaskedDragon908]

Gee, that sure is interesting.

Mind showing me the calcs of either of those moments? Cause I'm pretty sure I said calcs and not just "Any moment bullets were deflected."

That second video is also absolutely worthless in terms of garnering anything due to inability to determine distance.

It is interesting, isn't it?
You said "calcs", plural, but we have only one bullet calc at the moment, so Masked assumed you meant feats.
If you meant the singular bullet calc, then no, it isn't likely deflecting a bullet from an Uzi is "substantially more impressive" than deflecting a bullet moving at 887 m/s with a 180 degree sword swing.
The distance in the second video can be determined via angsizing, although it is somewhat more involved than other calculations
Edit: Masked was going to say more, but they should be sleeping. Good night.

 

[Sooshirohl]

made a lot of progress on the ether page. the ether tab should pretty much be all done, i don't think i'm missing anything substantial so just lmk what y'all think. started working on the ethereal and sacrifice tabs, and thankfully those ones are a lot more manageable so i should be able to get em done a lot faster.

i assume once i'm done with this and everything for it checks out we'd need to get a CRT in order to implement it onto the already existing pages right?

 

[BiggestOpp]

made a lot of progress on the ether page. the ether tab should pretty much be all done, i don't think i'm missing anything substantial so just lmk what y'all think. started working on the ethereal and sacrifice tabs, and thankfully those ones are a lot more manageable so i should be able to get em done a lot faster.

i assume once i'm done with this and everything for it checks out we'd need to get a CRT in order to implement it onto the already existing pages right?

Lemme clear this DA cycle rq and I’ll give it a look