No. I'm being patient and level-headed as I should be. This has nothing to do with the tread passing, I am rather simply frustrated that I've had to answer this simple question multiple times.
Gotcha, I'd still like to see it though.
I'm not denying it can happen to Goombas and such, I'm questioning whether it's happening in that scene specifically. Bowser's Inside Story is very inconsistent about Bowser's strength, could just be a low end showing for him.
Well I don't think you've actually shown anything that says it's all friendship/teamwork/whatever and that any use of that is inherently invoking Bonds. It's a universal force of some kind sure, so I don't think it's an unreasonable interpretation, but at the same time if you're trying to upscale Brothership from any other showing of this kind of power of friendship thing you'd probably want clear statements.
Explicit would be if they said "we're using Bonds here". Anyways, that's just a nitpick, don't mind it.
I don't really need to align my claims with Lou's, we're not arguing together we both just happen to disagree. But I dunno, "bad guy dies and stuff related to them falls apart" is a pretty common trope, it doesn't really imply conceptual existence (and if it did beating up Reclusa's physical form wouldn't actually do anything to affect the very concept of Glohm itself, but I digress). All of Ganon's Gloom disappears after he's defeated in TotK, Ganondorf's tower crumbles in Ocarina of Time after you take him down, Dracula's castle usually falls to pieces in Castlevania, the planet's core collapses when Sephiroth is defeated in FF7, even Mother Brain flips a dead man's switch on a planetary bomb... obviously this is different but other than "Reclusa had control over Glohm" it doesn't really show much, and we knew that already.
We had a whole thread going back and forth about this. I still stand by the position that he doesn't really do that.
No but that doesn't change anything. There's a lot more issues to scaling him to all the Glohm than just him being its direct source. He needs to be capable of fully drawing upon its power at a moment's notice in a fight, and everything else in the UES.
Literally every instance of him making the worlds is evidence of such, given he needs to put them in a matrix-style "lotus eater machine" of sorts which screws with their heads. Your arguments against that have basically consisted of trying to prove that Reclusa can freely edit and create dreams which is true... as long as they're in the flowers and he can mess with their brains.
Sure.
Sure.
I know, but please keep a more open mind here. That's all I ask, thank you.
Fiction doesn't always use this trope and/or follow its rules. Like I said before, just because a source of something can die or fade away doesn't mean the concept or thing it embodies will go along with it. Creators in fiction and non-fiction will die, yes, but the things they create like a story, product, or concept such as fear, justice, or love outlive them and still continue to exist.
Anyone can be the embodiment of something; that doesn't mean they have to be the sole creator of that one thing. Philemon in the Persona series is an embodiment of humanity's collective good, but that doesn't mean they're the creator of good. That same rule applies to Reclusa; he can be the embodiment of Glohm, but it doesn't mean he has to be the creator of it. It's normal for characters in fiction to be an embodiment of something and also not the creator of it.
The bonds in the blog are the "source of existence" have "infinite power", and hold together not just the land of Concordia, but beyond it. Similarly, the Pure Hearts serve as the counterpart to the Chaos Heart, which was going to destroy all the universes and existence. We scale the two to each other in this instance because they operate on a similar existential level.
If he prepares them himself, then that should mean, in a way, he's technically creating them. Just maybe via something like preparation.
I'll get on that. Grampy Turnip context?
Fair
Not necessarily trying to upscale anything that happens in Brothership other than Reclusa himself for being the "other Legendary" to Bonds, just showing that it comes from the same source, which it certainly does. After all, everything is made of Bonds, and the Bonds of only a few people can create an entire Multiverse.
Kk!
I know, it's just that Reclusa and everything related to Glohm disappears at the exact same time, in the exact same way
Like, in the end, he would at least prevent them from being created by countering and destroying the infinite energy from Bonds that creates them, which should scale similarly.
He did so when he created the Soli-tree, he just used the power in a different way
I really think it would be worth me looking further into his "preparation" statement, as that would necessitate them being created at the same time as the Soli-tree, which I've suggested before.
Not just the statement but also his actions, remember that we hear nothing of Glohm being a thing before his egg was found and Zokket was made.
Yep
They have the Glohm speech bubble, so it could honestly be the flowers talking, especially considering that we can hear their voices through laughter are digitized and sound nothing like them.
If he prepared them as he says, they'd all have been made at the same time, when he made the Soli-tree.
He doesn't need the flowers. He just does it so he wouldn't have to bother, but he has and can do it himself.
It is literally part of the blog's claims if it's wrong it's wrong simple as that such points are irrelevant
This is the relevant claim
Yeah, but he still shouldn't scale to the highest end based on his methodology.
this isn't me arguing against it yet.
That doesn't seem definitive just not having people mention it.
They were seemingly known of before hand also we have a clear explanation for why they transformed because a lack of connectar they had to run on their own energy.
I guess I thought I saw glohm particles around them so I assumed that was it plus they are talking from a first person perspective
Why? The flowers aren't all shown capturing people all at once.
I guess this could be explained differently in Japanese but English implies he usually uses the flowers and that quote could just be him being over confident he could of learned about it a plethora of ways and also he gets smoked like that is an important thing that happens.
We have to acknowledge the context behind this too. Dangerous force that is based on a virus shows up out of nowhere the moment a mysterious entity pops up, and vanishes after his death
And I'm pretty sure that losing connectar didn't do Jack before Reclusa's egg entered the picture
True, but I heavily believe it's simply the flowers broadcasting their thoughts based on the info I gave
They grow in the Soli-tree, and Reclusa claims he prepared them AFTER they latch on to everyone, implying setup upon creation. There are a few more factors to show this, along with Reclusa requiring the Bros to enter a door-portal upon each "update" to their world.
Japanese is prioritized, and he has done this before. He also didn't LEARN about Bonds, he fought against them
I don't think that's true why would Connie know of them otherwise.
okay I mean sure.
In order of claims I know I don't have access to an entire translation of the original text so I am going mostly off the hopefully not completely inaccurate English version of the story, that is not even close to what he actually says that is at most a possible but unproven he also gets defeated. Lastly, not definitive.
She was put into power after Cozette went missing (and became Zokket)
This is the first and only time Bonds have, would, and could ever defeat him. I'm saying
The Bonds have infinite power, and infinite power of one thing on the FAQ page puts that thing at High 3-A. The Bonds hold the Super Mario Cosmology together, which is 2-A. Reclusa preparing the worlds with the Glohm is him, in a way, creating the worlds. He is feeding on the "lonely feelings" of Concordia, refining them into Glohm. The Soli-Tree was made by Reclusa with the Glohm, and he merges with that same tree to become Weeping Reclusa. He is battling against the Mario Bros both with the Glohm, and when he dies, he deeply affects the substance. Furthermore, it's stated that he would destroy these Bonds again and again, meaning he has the capability to destroy the Bonds.
Again that is not actually said in the text you provided.
Okay, fought against Bonds is this scan, win is the fact that he's still evidently alive during the games events
He dies after that we don't even know how he learned about it
He does die after that, but I'd honestly go far as to assume he knows these things
Basically, we're arguing for 2-A Bonds which hold the Mario Bros cosmology together and are stated to have infinite power (which should be High 3-A) and scaling the Glohm and Reclusa to it, seeing as how the Mario Bros used them to defeat him.
This is for another thread as you said but honestly Mario & Luigi's max tier together shouldn't scale to their standalnoe max, they're just stronger when together.
Yes
I disagree with just assuming Reclusa can upscale from the Pure Hearts. We don't know which method they were made with, even if you say it's Bonds that doesn't mean they're just using that baseline of power rather than some other mechanism unknown to us.
This isn't really quantifiable, it's range if anything.
That doesn't really change things, you can't directly draw a link between that and UES scaling regardless of how it's portrayed to happen.
This also isn't stated anywhere. You're assuming a lot of specifics about the nature of the multiverse, Reclusa's knowledge of that nature and his ability to affect it.
Which means there is no implication he can do that in a fight.
"Plenty" is infinities less than a tier 2 feat (which again I don't agree is even happening), it's like saying a character can scale to a tier 5 power source because he used it to break down a door.
If you want.
My thought was Low 2-C because the dreams are made individually, he can just do it a bunch.
What if we gave the Mario Bros a 2-A Bonds key and Reclusa a 2-A Weeping Reclusa key?
I’m not sure about that, which was what I was trying to imply there.
I don't think the Bros. scale to ALL THE BONDS that make up the verse, but rather enough to counter Reclusa's destruction and power, which is at least 2-C.
I'll get to it.
The Pure Hearts are concentrations of Bonds,
Okay.
I guess so? The point is that he sustains Glohm. Just wondering, do you agree or disagree with that, and why?
Well we know that Bonds create the multiverse, so him destroying them would inevitably destroy a power source capable of making worlds, so it doesn't matter whether or not he really knows that. What's important is that Bonds are the source of everything, including dimensions and dream worlds, and he's capable of suppressing such power.
I mean, he does fight them with the Soli-tree in an unwinnable battle, the Bros. need to enter inside it to avoid fighting Weeping Reclusa. So he did use Soli-tree in a fight, which is a battle you're actively encouraged to avoid.
I see what you're saying here.
K
Just wondering, would Low 2-C, possibly 2-B work, depending on what I get from looking into the Japanese context of the preparation statement?
I would presume that it would be that the Mario Cosmology is 2-A; although I don't know if that is still the case on this wiki.
It would be that. Bonds as a whole blatantly scale to the cosmology, but every Bond user does not. I was scaling Reclusa to it as Bonds come from people, Glohm comes from him.
Oh, unrelated to this topic exactly, but I feel I should bring up that Peach and Starlow used Bonds to bust the Dream Stone into bits. Don't forget that Dreamy Luigi beat it's spirit up earlier with Bonds (Bros attack + Luiginoids + the nature of Dreamy Luigi revealed in Dream's Deep. In a tutorial battle nonetheless
This, too, is true
Dream Stone doesn’t need 2-B durability or whatever to be 2-B in utilizing a UES
the split hasn't been undone the paper world still isn't the normal universe.
This doesn't matter. Bonds exist everywhere and play the exact same role in the Paperverse.
