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Raiden (MGS2) vs Spider-Man (60's Cartoon) [7-0-0] (GRACE)

Can you clarify what you mean by "special equipment"? Is it the section inside his optional equipment called Special Equipment or did you mean the entirety of his optional equipment?
 
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McFriesGuy075 said:
Can you clarify what you mean by "special equipment"? Is it the section inside his optional equipment called Special Equipment or did you mean the entirety of his optional equipment?
Click to expand...
All equipment except for the special equipment section.
 
Ayo that's my goat....shit BOTH of these are my goats, except 60's Cartoon Spidey's the one I personally overhauled

McFriesGuy075 said:
Can you clarify what you mean by "special equipment"? Is it the section inside his optional equipment called Special Equipment or did you mean the entirety of his optional equipment?
Click to expand...

Yeah, like Fries said, specify what you mean by special equipment. The OP is a bit vague

That being said, I already think that Raiden wins, but I don't wanna go in-depth as to why until the OP specifies exactly what we're giving Raiden here
 
Pyro9278 said:
All equipment except for the special equipment section.
Click to expand...

Okay, so I just didn't see this somehow that's my b

That means Raiden won't have access to the following:
  • Dog Tags
  • Wig A
  • Wig B
  • SP.Wig
  • Stealth Camoflauge
  • Sunglasses

Alright, I gotta handle something IRL, but I'll start yapping about my analysis of this fight afterwards
 
Due to speed equalization rules, Spider-Man's Subsonic rating is brought down to Raiden's Superhuman rating, which means the former's reactions would also be lowered from Relativistic (0.4 c) to Sub-Relativistic+ (0.07 c). Naturally, this means that the light aspect of Raiden's Stun Grenades would be more unavoidable to Spidey depending on the distance where it's activated, this would create a fatal opening that Raiden could exploit.
 
Raiden
  • LS meta (has a monstrous six-digit Class M advantage, which is much higher than even Spidey's strongest webbing)
  • Monstrous Skill advantage (Rather self-explanatory even if you read even just a bit of both pages)
  • Stealthier
  • Durability Negation via HF Blade
  • Stun Grenades are very exploitable here
  • Fourth Wall Awareness would legitimately let him pull this silly shit against Spidey
  • Resistance to Precog
  • Stamina (Both opponents have pretty good stamina feats, but I'd give this to Raiden given what we know about his pain tolerance as revealed in MGRR)
  • Rations can save Raiden assuming Spidey does land KOing blows on him
  • While the body armour doesn't give him a durability advantage, it will help in hanging in there against Spidey's much greater AP
  • Tranq Rounds would be effective here
  • Chaff Grenades would disable some of Spidey's equipment
  • Instinctive Action

Spider-Man
  • AP/Durability (Has a 6.53x advantage over Raiden)
  • Greater Mobility
  • Although his regular webbing's heat resistance is lower than the heat briefly given off by the Stun Grenade, Electric-Proof Webbing and Special Webbing can no-sell the heat given off by Raiden's Stun Grenades (this is a really specific advantage that prolly doesn't help much in the long run, but it's there I guess?)
  • IBP Webbing allows Spidey to have a bit more control
  • Resists the Coolant Spray (his natural resistances to extremely cold temperatures would already grant him this, but the Heating Unit under his costume that he's being given here would further cement that)
  • Anti-Magnetic Webbing would be a problem for Raiden's tech I reckon given it can instantly short circuit tech advanced enough to manipulate metals, wood, cloth, and supposedly a lot more
  • Enhanced Senses have much greater range
  • Attack Reflection via Web Shields would be handy against most firearms

60's Cartoon Spidey has some silly shit that really helps him here, particularly his AP/Durability advantage + Anti-Magnetic Webbing. Plus his mobility and IBP Webbing could really come in handy for making the battlefield much harder to navigate on for Raiden. There's also just the fact that even Peter's standard webbing is insanely versatile, an attribute that he takes advantage of consistently in battle. That being said, Raiden's clever and skilled enough to make the best use of his set here.

The Spider-Sense isn't gonna be effective against Raiden, given he was able to clear Psycho Mantis as part of his training, meaning that the Spider-Sense won't reliably be able to tell Peter what to do against Raiden's best stuff. Web incap isn't an option because Raiden's LS is just way too good here, and if he got Spidey in a chokehold, then it's a wrap right there. Anti-Magnetic Webbing could cause some problems for the tech, but it's not like dodging it or cutting it up with the HF Blade isn't an option either. The HF Blade itself would dice up Spidey, no problem. A single Stun Grenades could honestly seal Raiden's victory right there since Spidey has no way of resisting it and from there, Raiden can dice him up or tranq him. He could also stun him just by shooting the❗above his head (and given how Raiden resists precog, Spidey's probably gonna be taken off guard by this since he won't be alarmed at Raiden shoot literally right above his head). And while Spidey's AP/Durability advantage is crazy good, he'd likely regret taking on Raiden hand-to-hand. Raiden's skill level is far above Spidey's own, and paired with his higher LS, countering his attacks is a lot more feasible than it may look at a glance. Rations (which instantly heal Raiden when he takes KOing or killing blows) would also be helpful assuming Spidey tags him at some point

I favour Raiden's chances of pulling off the W here. Voting Raiden
 
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Unknownnah said:
His cheeks...
Click to expand...
KX2Nd5h.png
 
Anyway, Lonkitt laid out a good analysis, so unless something there's some secret Spidey stuff that was forgotten that changes the tide of this fight, Raiden FRA. I will also mention that Raiden has fought and beaten peeps stronger than him (Vamp, Solidus, the Metal Gears). Spidey's AP advantage is def an issue though, and Raiden would have to use up a ration to save him from a one or two shot should he get smacked once or twice, but I think he'll be able to avoid getting in that situation.
 
I think if Spider-Man keeps his reaction speed advantage sub rela + vs MHS I don’t think most of Raidens thrown equipment is going to work despite being an eventually a lightspeed stun it still needs to have the pin pulled+thrown to range and detonate, it would require perfect timing on Raidens part, it could work against him too if webbing is used to deflect it.

However it could be argued Raiden can throw harder ( class M) than what webbing allows for deflection.

Idk how you would adequately keep reaction speeds higher and have him not win single blows exchange, his AP borders on one shot gap and even with rations it still is a hard stun going by how Raiden In-game reacts to highly damaging attacks.

But if his reaction is based on Spider Sense precog he is toast because Raiden has mantis VR giving him esoteric precog resistance and Skull suit giving him muscle reading precog resistance.
 
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Unknownnah said:
Anyway, Lonkitt laid out a good analysis, so unless something there's some secret Spidey stuff that was forgotten that changes the tide of this fight, Raiden FRA. I will also mention that Raiden has fought and beaten peeps stronger than him (Vamp, Solidus, the Metal Gears). Spidey's AP advantage is def an issue though, and Raiden would have to use up a ration to save him from a one or two shot should he get smacked once or twice, but I think he'll be able to avoid getting in that situation.
Click to expand...

Oh right, one more thing

To anyone wondering, Spidey's Awakened Power wouldn't really come into play here. Both are in-character and Raiden would have to do some oddly specific shit to invoke that ability for Spidey. I didn't mention it since there's no feasible way it would come into play here
 
AguilaR202 said:
I think if Spider-Man keeps his reaction speed advantage sub rela + vs MHS I don’t think most of Raidens thrown equipment is going to work despite being an eventually a lightspeed stun it still needs to have the pin pulled+thrown to range and detonate, it would require perfect timing on Raidens part, it could work against him too if webbing is used to deflect it.
Click to expand...

I mean, that's not really a problem for Raiden. He's a master at using everything in his arsenal, timing the Stun Grenades right won't be an issue. Also, no, it wouldn't work against him. Raiden resists his own Stun Grenades, it's even noted in his resistances section
 
Spidey's Rel is both reactions and combat speed so wouldn't that get nerfed to MHS in speed equal?
 
AguilaR202 said:
I think if Spider-Man keeps his reaction speed advantage sub rela + vs MHS I don’t think most of Raidens thrown equipment is going to work despite being an eventually a lightspeed stun it still needs to have the pin pulled+thrown to range and detonate, it would require perfect timing on Raidens part, it could work against him too if webbing is used to deflect it.
Click to expand...
Raiden has 20 Stun Grenades (normal difficulty), Spider-Man keeping his distance won't be feasible to incap Raiden since no webbing will restrain Raiden.
 
Unknownnah said:
Spidey's Rel is both reactions and combat speed so wouldn't that get nerfed to MHS in speed equal?
Click to expand...
No, it gets nerfed to Sub-Rel+ because of Spidey's Subsonic travel going down to Raiden's Superhuman travel (a 5.76558948978x difference)
 
AguilaR202 said:
But if his reaction is based on Spider Sense precog he is toast because Raiden has mantis VR giving him esoteric precog resistance and Skull suit giving him muscle reading precog resistance.
Click to expand...

Spidey's reactions aren't based on the Spider-Sense, his calculated speed feats were all performed without reliance precog (he's even got a pretty good speed feat that was done while his Spider-Sense was disabled). He's not a deer in headlights or anything without it, it's just that the 60's Spider-Sense is great for detecting oncoming attacks, and even telling Peter what to do in response to whatever danger is heading his way.

But since Raiden resists that, Spider-Man's more vulnerable to Raiden's wincons since his Spider-Sense won't be telling him what he's gotta do to best avoid said wincons. This is pretty significant given Raiden's skill level and efficiency with his weapons, as well as his goofy stuff like shooting the❗ to stun enemies
 
Lonkitt said:
Spidey's reactions aren't based on the Spider-Sense, his calculated speed feats were all performed without reliance precog (he's even got a pretty good speed feat that was done while his Spider-Sense was disabled). He's not a deer in headlights or anything without it, it's just that the 60's Spider-Sense is great for detecting oncoming attacks, and even telling Peter what to do in response to whatever danger is heading his way.

But since Raiden resists that, Spider-Man's more vulnerable to Raiden's wincons since his Spider-Sense won't be telling him what he's gotta do to best avoid said wincons. This is pretty significant given Raiden's skill level and efficiency with his weapons, as well as his goofy stuff like shooting the❗ to stun enemies
Click to expand...
Yeah going with Raiden here, it is not only an attack he can’t foresee but even in normal conditions it is not something he would immediately see as a threat.
 
AguilaR202 said:
To be fair co op link is a power amp. (Actual unironic outlier tbh that’s MGR level strength)
Click to expand...

Chronologically, MGS has six digit Class M stuff well before the MSX era and MGS4 has Class G stuff, so it's really not that crazy TBH

Real MGRR level strength is Class T
 
Lonkitt said:
Chronologically, MGS has six digit Class M stuff well before the MSX era and MGS4 has Class G stuff, so it's really not that crazy
Click to expand...
Well I don’t know if it’d be a hard outlier but something that large dissppearing from view in that short a time is definitely higher than 8-C+ Class M, If it’s legit counted for in profiles me thinks a lot of MGS2s Raiden matchs are becoming stomps now, because there is no way that feat is just 8-C + even divided by 3
 
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AguilaR202 said:
Well I don’t know if it’d be a hard outlier but something that large dissppearing from view in that short a time is definitely higher than 8-C+ Class M, If it’s legit counted for in profiles me thinks a lot of MGS2s Raiden matchs are becoming stomps now, because there is no way that feat is just 8-C + even divided by 3
Click to expand...

Rn, that specific gif isn't used on the profiles. The feat in that gif hasn't even been calculated

I wonder what it would get NGL, but for now, it's not relevant to the match
 
Lonkitt said:
Rn, that specific gif isn't used on the profiles. The feat in that gif hasn't even been calculated

I wonder what it would get NGL, but for now, it's not relevant to the match
Click to expand...
Yeah going with current profile ratings matches are legit.
 
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