Kawakami-Verse Cosmology Page & Related Revisions

[DontTalkDT]

My cosmology page for the Kawakami-verse is done for the time being, I decided. The first topic of this thread hence lies in the suggestion to turn this into an official explanation page and add that to all the related verse pages.

The establishment of the cosmology also has consequences for certain characters. Adding those is the second topic of the thread. To briefly list the suggested changes for profiles:

1. Clash of Hexennacht characters get Information Manipulation Type 2. These characters use Ether-based magic ("The light was ether light and ether was the foundational element of all things and the fuel of all spells." - Clash of Hexennacht Volume 1 Prologue), so as Ether is Information Type 2, they get this as the mechanism behind their magic.
2. Clash of Hexennacht characters currently have Conceptual Manipulation for manipulating Names on their profiles, but no Type for the Conceptual Manipulation is listed. Assuming my proposal for counting Names as Conceptual Manipulation Type 3 is accepted, it should hence be accepted as Type 3.
3. Noah should receive Logic Manipulation via Conceptual Manipulation for the reasons outlined in the Logic section, i.e. she created the concept of contradiction allowance which allows for logical paradoxes.

That should be all that is directly impacted on the profiles.

 

[Thermor]

Disagree FRB.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[Fixxed]

For logic manipulation, i think it too vague

Creating contradiction doesnt really mean creating a logical contradiction

A positive and negative concept and making impossible thing possible also too vague and doesnt really explain anything

What i see here is just that there are a law that stated concept cannot be created nor destroyed, but her power can make a concept that allow concept creation to happen, it just making impossibility (by those verse standard) possible. No idea why this is logic manipulation

I dont found where they affect the law of noncontradiction here. I think you must provide more clear proof about violating that law, like literally stated being created but also not-created at the same sense and meaning

 

[DontTalkDT]

For logic manipulation, i think it too vague

Creating contradiction doesnt really mean creating a logical contradiction

A positive and negative concept and making impossible thing possible also too vague and doesnt really explain anything

What i see here is just that there are a law that stated concept cannot be created nor destroyed, but her power can make a concept that allow concept creation to happen, it just making impossibility (by those verse standard) possible. No idea why this is logic manipulation

I dont found where they affect the law of noncontradiction here. I think you must provide more clear proof about violating that law, like literally stated being created but also not-created at the same sense and meaning

The part you didn't mention is existence in the void here. The first thing the concept of contradiction allowance did, was to allow existence in a place that doesn't exist. Existence and non-existence are a clear logical contradiction.

 

[Fixxed]

The part you didn't mention is existence in the void here. The first thing the concept of contradiction allowance did, was to allow existence in a place that doesn't exist. Existence and non-existence are a clear logical contradiction.

I dont see that in logic section. But it really wasnt a logical contradiction, an existence in a void is literally normal thing in fiction, i can think of a world that surrounded or exist within a big spaceless timeless void. It will become logical contradiction if that existence is a existence also a nonexistence, just exist in a void doesnt really sound like logical contradiction

 

[DontTalkDT]

I dont see that in logic section. But it really wasnt a logical contradiction, an existence in a void is literally normal thing in fiction, i can think of a world that surrounded or exist within a big spaceless timeless void. It will become logical contradiction if that existence is a existence also a nonexistence, just exist in a void doesnt really sound like logical contradiction

Ah, sorry, I have established things regarding the void in the concept section of which the logic section is part of. Wrote that so long ago, I forgot that I structured it that way. Maybe I will do a small rewrite to mention the quotes in question a second time in the logic section
Edit: Did that rewrite now to add the quotes towards the end of the logic section.

Anyway, the thing is that the void isn't just a vacuum or an absence of spacetime. It's not merely a spaceless timeless void. The void is what was there "before" the concepts came to exist. ("Before" in quotation marks as there is no concept of time to actually talk about order of events)
As the novel points out, the void lacks even nothingness. Makes sense, as concepts are the source of properties, if properties don't yet exist, then not even nothingness can exist yet, as that also has properties. (The void has NEP Nature Type 2 by our standards, one could say)
It's in that nature that a logical contradiction arises. Parthood entails existence. If x is part of y, and x exists, then y must exist. Noah exists and Noah is in the void, so the void must exist. But the void doesn't exist, by definition of what the void is. Hence you get the existence and non-existence contradiction.
Another way to think about the contradiction would be that the void is given a property of having parts (Noah), despite having no properties. Properties and no properties.
Basically, the empty set contains Noah now.
I think if the verse points out that this is an impossible state of affairs, it's not bringing up an unclear idea. And in forcing the concept of contradiction allowance into existence due to that state of affairs it follows up on it in a tangible feat.

 

[Dalesean027]

This seems fine

 

[DontTalkDT]

Been applied.