Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou Discussion Thread 2

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I'm wondering if these are enough for a tier 2 upgrade


1) The Great Tree might be responsible for the creation of "the heaven and the earth"

2) Avatars govern their universe Space-Time and control the flow of time

3) Avatars could move universes

4) Avatars could fight and defeat a universal threat if they jumped him

5) Authority cover a universal(L2-C) range

6) Being connected to the Great Tree they have access to the Origin Flow(infinite energy) which may also be the "foundation of the world"



Both the Avatars and authorities are created by the great tree and independently they don't seem higher than planetary. So this could be an indirect scaling ?

 

[Cipher72]

The Great Tree might be responsible for the creation of "the heaven and the earth"

And how big is Heaven and Earth ?

Avatars govern their universe Space-Time and control the flow of time

Avatars could move universes

Avatars could fight and defeat a universal threat if they jumped him

• The first is time Manipulation on a L2-C scale idt it would scale to AP unless they well have means to translate it to a L2-C attack
• Move universes as in physically move a 3-A structure or what ?

Good supporting evidence ig

Authority cover a universal(L2-C) range

Is Universe accepted as L2-C or are you referring to some type of CM ?

Being connected to the Great Tree they have access to the Origin Flow(infinite energy) which may also be the "foundation of the world"

I am looking at a lot of assumptions with the best being the "Infinite energy" which is at best supporting evidence for H3-A the other important thing I saw and I presume is being able to beat a character that's universal (3-A) but again that doesn't necessarily translate to AP.

Both the Avatars and authorities are created by the great tree and independently they don't seem higher than planetary. So this could be an indirect scaling ?

Not an anti-feat but I am not looking at a lot of feats to begin with tbf.
That's my two cents.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

And how big is Heaven and Earth ?

That's the universe

• Move universes as in physically move a 3-A structure or what ?

Realms are independent universes with their own laws and concepts(Space, Time, Info...)

They moved universes closer to the point that they are spatilly overlaped and temporally synchronized. In this state the universes synchronize their laws and concepts and the destruction of one will spread to the other. This the same thing that happen whenever someone open a portal to another universe.

Is Universe accepted as L2-C or are you referring to some type of CM

The nine realms are nine 2-A universes.

I am looking at a lot of assumptions with the best being the "Infinite energy" which is at best supporting evidence for H3-A the other important thing I saw and I presume is being able to beat a character that's universal (3-A) but again that doesn't necessarily translate to AP.

Other than the nature of the Origin Flow the rest is supported by multiple reliable characters.

 

[Cipher72]

Hmm I will need to look at the args in details at a later time with scans to come to a conclusion ig

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Here is a couple of scans, I'll add the rest later

Spoiler: Portals

Travelling between realm require temporarily synchronizing their timeflow, that's a basic function of all portals

「Is there any other problem than energy for maintaining the gate’s opening?」

Hajime dispassionately asked what had to be asked without any particular change in his expression. It felt like Manager Mercurys’s eyes loosened up slightly seeing that.

It reminded her of the shocked looks of Kouki and co when they heard the situation. It was deep sympathy.

But, that was something unnecessary. Rather, for them it was something that hurt their heart so much they wanted to scream. They weren’t anyone worth having such beautiful emotion directed toward them.

Kouki too must have sensed that. Perhaps he was seeing himself in them.

Either way the battlefield was intensifying and there was also no time to have a leisurely talk so Kouki immediately switched thought at that time and simply handed all his stored magic power before going out to fight.

「The risk of another intrusion of void god like before. And, the risk of the time axis’s flow becoming the same with your world. Only those two risks.」Ch 552

Spoiler: Infinite energy

More details on the Grasp Gloria

「Ee~rr, well now, I think that I had explained somewhat. You know, I said how I’ve gotten my hands on infinite magic power and also willpower(Ki) after much effort, so I wondered whether I can cut down the process and use them as my personal magic power.」

This was about the difference between nature magic power and internal magic power.

He called it infinite magic power but, the energy that Grasp Gloria produced was “sky dragon force”. By converting it into magic power, and further absorbing it into his body as his personal magic power, he could use the energy for magic and the like.

Of course, there would be no need to match the energy with his personal magic power if he used it as fuel for artifact. And the infinite magic power supplied to Yue and others went through artifact to be converted to their respective magic power, but fundamentally such process was needed.

In short, the total amount of usable energy was functionally infinite, but by needing to go through several processes, everyone couldn’t get rid of the impression that it was a waste in the respect of instantaneous output amount.

It was like drawing out seawater from sea, but to use it first the seawater had to go through water filtration plant to turn to turn it into drinking water, then it had to be distributed to various household, flow out from faucet, being flavored to various individual’s palate, before the water finally got drank……the process was something like that. Ch 545

Spoiler: Universal Threat

「──Even Tio, should be able to do similar thing even if not to the same degree like the “Dragon” shouldn’t she? That kinda idea.」

『Uumu, that might be so thanks to the hindsight but……』

To be talked like she was at the same rank like Hajime, with his Creator disposition, whose inventiveness could be said to be his greatest strength without exaggeration……a strained laugh seeped into Tio’s tone.

『It’s the power of a monster that couldst destroy not only a planet but even the universe thou realize? Normally, nobody wouldst dare to think that, I couldst also do the same thing!』Ch 481

According to the seven kings, the earth’s goddess who they knew was practically in a dormant state. Due to her deathly battle with the “Dragon”, the earth’s goddess at that time must be considerably weakened.

If such hypothesis was the premise, then this kind of assumption was also possible.

「If only there was one more goddess to help out, the “Dragon” could be sealed more firmly……no, they might be able to finish it off. In that case it’s understandable that the earth’s goddess wished to have an interaction with other world’s goddess in preparation of the worst case.」

Aularodde nodded with a meek expression. She was a former goddess who had experienced getting driven to the wall until she was at the death’s doorstep. There would be nothing more reassuring if only there was goddess of another world lending her a hand.

But, originally that was something impossible.

――A world, should be completed within that world

That was the common understanding of the goddesses. It was even one of the things given to them when they became an avatar of a great tree, together with the authority and knowledge from the great tree. Ch 548

Spoiler: Moving universes

Earth and Hell here is refering to their universe

「That’s surprising. At that time the “avatar of great tree”――a goddess also existed wasn’t it? And yet, for her to permit interaction between worlds……」

「Nagumo hypothesized that perhaps earth and hell are so close that they could be described as being adjacent dimensionally was because the goddess at that time made it so. That originally the two worlds were as distanced from each other like with the other worlds.」Ch 548

The earth’s goddess at that time understood that, even so she sought connection with hell because there was no doubt that the “Dragon” was a threat that had to be dealt with together with other worlds.

「If there’s something to add, perhaps the goddess’s management of the world didn’t go well because of her considerably weakened state and so she sought assistance……or perhaps, she anticipated the worst case of the “Dragon” escaping the seal, and wanted a place for earth’s residents to escape……that Nagumo also made those hypothesis.」

The goddess of the hell world also understood that and accepted. Maybe. Perhaps that was the reason of the closeness between hell and earth. Ch 548

Spoiler: Logic Manipulation

「And from there concept magic got recklessly used and finally the world principles began to go out of order wasn’t it.」

「But, it still wasn’t fatal. The God Tree and its avatar were alive and well and they were correcting the world’s disorder……」

Hmm? Wait? There Shizuku’s expression became dubious. In that case the Breaking Down Principles Phenomenon can be stopped as long as there are the great tree and its avatar? Or rather, in the first place the effect of Breaking Down Principles Phenomenon is getting prevented with just the “God Tree’s core” over there even though only locally isn’t it?

The moment she mentioned that, they could hear that Hajime was also asking the same thing. He seemed to have the same thought.

Now that you mention it that’s right, Yue and others thought while looking at each other.

Manager Mercurys said that question would be answered later and she continued the story.

It seemed the “world’s destruction” wasn’t solely caused by the Breaking Down Principles Phenomenon.

「For now, we should just keep in mind that even when concept magic is recklessly used and caused disorder to world principles, it’s possible to correct it with the power of God Tree and the avatar. Just like artifact, even something that originally has permanent effect couldn’t display its power sufficiently forever. Do I get it right?」

「This is, in the end it’s with the condition that the type of energy of the concept magic is matching with the world managed by the avatar isn’t it?」Ch 553

Spoiler: Authorities are "absolute"

Mankind seriously rose to defeat the avatar.

The avatar boasted absolute advantage against existences living in their world. No matter how mighty the powers wielded by the residences of the calamity world were, as long as the source of those powers were “magic power”, they absolutely wouldn’t be able to win against the avatar.

That was the absolute rule no matter what world it was.

But, “mankind’s possibility” also included possessing the power to surpass that “absolute”.

The research for defeating the avatar began to be carried out by all countries.

「”The one to control the God Tree, control the world”……how did the God Tree’s avatar must felt at that time.」Ch 553

Spoiler: Element>Concept Magic

In any case, mankind succeeded in overthrowing their god. A nation that ruled over a certain planet finally obtained that method.

It was the technology to turn magic power into element, and to meddle with the element.

The technology wasn’t so advanced they could directly control the element. But, applying great debuff to the avatar, or making mankind’s magic possessing enough effect……if it was something of that level then it was possible with the technology. After that what was left to do was just violence of number.

As the result the avatar was defeated and the victorious country obtained a part of the avatar’s body and the God Tree. Using those as the basis, they created an artificial avatar.

That was an existence that ought to be called as Holou’s predecessor. A system that was created as the control terminal of principles――the principles controlling assist system, in short “controller”.

The designation had “-er” in it because the predecessor was humanoid.

Naturally there wasa reason why it was humanoid. Possession. The principles controlling assist system was a system that enabled one to replace the avatar by possessing an empty vessel of the avatar.

The king of the victorious country who succeeded in replacing the avatar called himself as the “god king” and established a new country in the planet of the God Tree as “the country of god where only the chosen people could live”. Ch 553

Spoiler: Universal Control

「……Four, great spirits?」

The winged woman of the sacred peak who possessed the ability to rule over the weather, the spirit of four seasons who were in charge of the world’s climate, Leidia.

The great snake of the mountains and hills who possessed authority over the planet’s force itself, the spirit of creation who managed the land and magic particles, Grandia.

The centaur who possessed the authority of omnipresent space and time, the spirit of protection who managed the time and space, Fordia.

The maiden of the lake who possessed the authority of the transmigration of life, the spirit of life who managed the water and soul, Urdia.

The new spherical display projected the great tree Ua Alto and the great spirits who peacefully served it with respect from the four directions. The great tree stood far taller than even its current self with height that pierced the sky. Its branches and leaves were luscious and gentle light enveloped the whole thing. It was radiating sacredness that made it worthy to be described as god tree.

Yes, the four great spirits were existences that the great tree gave birth to in order to keep the world in balance. 2nd Season Blu-ray SS Ch4

「Time difference? Between fellow planets where both possessed a great tree? That shouldn’t be……」

Lutria abruptly casted her gaze down. Apparently she was carefully examining the information that she had received from the divine spirits (other than Enti). Her expression grimaced slightly. As though she was directly facing an incomprehensible fact.

「It looks like you knew about the fact that the time difference itself exist only just now huh.」

「……Yes, a small concept like time is something alien for god. However, for fellow planets where the great tree exist in each, difference in the flow of time shouldn’t……is this also the influence of many of the great trees being lost? Or perhaps the cause came from the world being closed……」

Lutria got immersed in some kind of thought in the middle of her words and she started muttering to herself. Hajime narrowed his eyes while the other people were showing confusion.

It was a parade of concerning words, but in any case, right now the priority was to obtain answer that Shia sought. Hajime didn’t open his mouth and urged Shia with his gaze.

Shia nodded and called out a bit strongly.

「Umm! Lutria-san!」

「! ……I got slightly too absorbed in my thought. Don’t worry, Shia Hauria. From comparing the memories of Laila and everyone else, there’s almost no change at all in the time difference.」

「Almost?」

「In the term of your world’s calendar, it should be “less than five years” that have passed over here.」

It looked like the time difference had widened slightly. Even so, if it hadn’t even been five years than it was still within acceptable limits. Shia patted her chest in relief.

「You are keeping that worlds connecting gate open is for the sake of eliminating that time difference isn’t it? I’m feeling interference to space-time from it. Using the divine spirits as a wedge in place……what a forcible method.」

Some exasperation could be glimpsed in Lutria’s eyes that were looking at the gate from where Hajime and co came out. Actually, the gate hadn’t been closed at all since they went through it.

It was a feat that was enabled by the unlimited magic power. This forceful method was none other than the method to temporarily eliminate the time difference between earth and the star spirit world.

Lutria was understanding right now because she had the memories from the divine spirits, but actually Hajime and others who had become even more dange──stronger than before that they could continue to maintain this kind of gate indefinitely was also one of the sources of Lutria’s extreme worry. Ch 491

「Something like crossing dimension should be impossible originally. Just the fact that it “could cross” made it easy to imagine that it possessed means to interfere with space-time.」

「I see. Those guys’ arrival might have influenced the “wall” between worlds and created the time difference huh.」

Of course, in that case it raised the question why there wasn’t any time difference with the desert world. Perhaps it was because of individual difference or difference in ability between each “Calamity”, but as expected they had nothing but guess in regard to that.

「In any case, there is no problem in regard to the flow of time. Laila is my child. I think it is possible to correct the difference if I’m connected with Laila through the King Tree over there and the Star Tree.」

「I see. In that case we definitely need your cooperation at all costs. Although we have the unlimited magic power, it’s making me nervous to keep the worlds connected all the time like this.」

「Indeed. Then yes, I accept.」

The problem of time difference between worlds still had unclear cause but it was taken care of for the time being. Hajime’s face sported a slight smile. Ch 492

「There’s no big difference of this world and earth’s calendar. Also, the time that I mentioned just now had been converted to earth time.」

「To add to that, apparently there’s no time difference between the planets existing in “the World Tree’s branches”. According to Lutria that is.」

It didn’t just mean conceptually, but apparently also physically like with the planet’s revolution and rotation period.

It was too much to called that a mere coincidence. When Hajime heard about that, he thought 「That’s like a stage of simulations where they all are running in parallel simultaneously huh」. Ch 505

「……Besides, the divine spirit of ocean current Meeres is in charge of being the avatar of the Dragon Tree right?」

「Yeah. Because Amanogawa said that there isn’t any problem occurring.」

「……In that case, for the time being there are gods in the worlds other than this machine world and the hell world. Just like what the star spirit world’s Lutria do with Laila, it should be possible to erase the time difference between the gods through the “World Tree Branches”.」Ch 505

Divine spirit of sea current-san, was seriously furious…….

『They are acting overly familiar with me. They keep making complains or demands for every single thing. When I denied their request they would blatantly treat me as a “useless chap” and then speak endlessly while comparing me with just how wonderful the hell world’s demon king is. And at the end of it, they secretly built a base for their own use, started fighting among themselves, came to me to spew complains about that to me, throwing a tantrum like an infant, starting a party just when I was focusing on adjusting this world’s balance and adjusting the time difference, and they didn’t stop there and gave me report that I couldn’t ignore as though they were aiming for that──』

「I get it I get it-, sorry! It’s my bad! I got shaken up by the time difference problem and blundered with the personnel selection! I’ll switch them with the spirit beasts in the Miniature Garden! That’s why calm down! No, don’t get ill!」Ch 518

「Yes, that’s right. It’s more efficient than simply a specific energy. Especially in this world that is conceptually closed off……」

「”Conceptually”. That’s the reason why Amanogawa didn’t……no, couldn’t go back or contact us with the Fairy Key――with the tools that he has on hand huh.」

「Yes, this world has two barriers. The first is the rainbow coloured barrier surrounding the island. And then, the second one can’t be seen by eyes, but it’s a conceptual barrier spreading out to the whole universe.」

「A barrier to maintain world principles and secure a sphere of survival and, a barrier to prevent the breaking down of principles to not spread to other worlds huh.」

「That’s not all but……let’s talk about the barrier later.」Ch 552

「The risk of the world principle’s collapse spreading to our world?」

「None. The rainbow colored barrier surrounding this island. We’re calling it the “boundary of the end” or simply “the boundary” but, as long as it doesn’t collapse that won’t happen.」

「The possibility of it’s breaking from this attack?」

「The keystone of the boundary is this “God Tree’s core”. Destruction is impossible unless this is destroyed or there isn’t enough energy to maintain the boundary.」

「Impossible……that’s, because this is not exactly a barrier isn’t it? I see. That’s why it’s a “boundary” huh.」

Manager Mercurys’s eyes widened slightly. For her that was the biggest proof of her astonishment.

As expected it seemed she didn’t expect that Hajime would finish analyzing the true nature of the rainbow colored barrier in so short time, furthermore while also doing battle.

「Y-yes, that’s right. That’s nothing more than us visualizing the boundary line of the limited space the “God Tree’s core” is managing to keep as “regular environment”. That’s why, it has no effect of preventing intrusion, and in the first place it’s not a barrier so the concept of destruction doesn’t apply to it.」

The power of “calamity world’s great tree” that encompassed the whole universe in the past was apparently limited to only several kilometers to the four directions right now.

It was too pitiful to even see. Or perhaps, it ought to be admired for its amazingness for being able to maintain a living sphere the size of an island in a world where the world’s principles had broken down even after it had been reduced into a single sapling.

Considering the many human sacrifices who offered themselves to act as fuel, perhaps it was fine to think that it was the latter.

「This building in the shape like a twisted tower is imitating the great tree right? In order to amplify the power of the “core”. Other than that it’s also doing “time delaying”, no, “time interference” and……emitting something like a radio tower isn’t it? Most likely, it’s related to the other barrier you mentioned just now. This building itself is a giant artifact right?」

「So you have learned that much. You’re really something.」Ch 552

And then, they immediately faced a grave problem.

「Aa~, in the end, it’s a power too great for a mere human huh.」

「That simply stands to reason.」

There might not be any problem if this happen when their civilization is at the level around earth huh, Atsushi and Noboru reflexively spoke out.

The difference between the calamity world and earth. The difference of civilization level.

Earth couldn’t exert its influence to outer space. But, the calamity world was different. The effect of reckless uses of concept magic and, special grade magic tools that were still working even then existed. Neutralizing the effects of those until the end of universe and managing the environment was none other than the avatar of God Tree.

The god king was unable to do that.

It was simply the problem of processing power. Managing the whole universe, to do that with human body, or to be more accurate human mind was impossible even after he stole the avatar’s body and no matter how much law technique and concept magic were used to cover up for his deficiency.

The abrasion to his mind was advancing bit by bit even when he didn’t wield the avatar’s authority. Despite his immortal body he reached a point where a replacement was required in merely several centuries.

Taeko held her as though to say Draa~~ts.

「The result was the Principles Breaking Down Phenomenon became unstoppable, and its influence was also spreading out rapidly……」

「How should I put it, just because the effect of the Principles Breaking Down Phenomenon could be held in check if the range was limited to the area centered around the God Tree’s planet, he decided to completely abandon the remote regions of the universe……that god king guy was seriously screwed up. That’s too much war crime.」

Just as Nana said with twitching face, the god king handed down a decision that ought to be called a type of defiance.

In a sense, the overpopulation problem can be solved with this isn’t it, the king said.

In addition, his control was unable to reach until every corner of the universe, Who knew when new technology might get developed somewhen and somewhere and what happened to the first avatar would be repeated to him. In that case he could just shrink the world to a size that he could manage.

And then, the problem of processing power would be resolved as time passed, and at that time he could return to regaining back the whole universe. Ch 553

It was calculated that several galaxies worth of area was definitely protected by the God Tree and the god king but, in reality the continuously expanding “void” had started to overtake the scope of the Principles Breaking Down Phenomenon and swallowed the God Tree’s protection.

In front of the “pruning phenomenon”, even a great tree couldn’t resist. Ch 553

「That man also appeared before the god king and others at the same time.」

「……I see.」

It went without saying, the security for the centra government’s higher-ups was even stricter than Manager Mercurys. In the first place, the god king was no different than an omnipotent being in the homeworld at least.

And yet, the god king also didn’t notice at all until the man was already standing behind him. Ch 554

The correct translation is omniscient

「In addition, it was even decided that the god king would use the avatar’s authority to prevent any more teleportation to other world after them. It was so that the people dealing with the situation here wouldn’t run away later on.」Ch 554

Spoiler: Infinite information

The world's memory

『There I caught Amanogawa and others who were in the middle of their journey to have Aularodde tell me about this “dragon”’s true identity.』

But Aularodde knew nothing. The former goddess had no memory of such existence.

According to Aularodde, the world’s memory was taking root in the Heaven Tree. The memory could be accessed by using goddess’s power, so all of them including Kouki’s group rushed to the fairy world.

And then together with the manly goddess, the old and new goddesses worked together. Furthermore they also used Hajime’s infinite magic power to trace back the record. However they didn’t find any record even after going back for nearly ten thousand years.

With no other way, Yue used sublimation magic to the extreme limit in order to increase the goddesses’ processing speed, and they were also made to perform Limit Break forcefully using artifact. Although such measures caused Aularodde’s head to slightly go into a twist, they finally succeeded in determining the identity of that existence. Ch 416.

Avatars processing power

Earth couldn’t exert its influence to outer space. But, the calamity world was different. The effect of reckless uses of concept magic and, special grade magic tools that were still working even then existed. Neutralizing the effects of those until the end of universe and managing the environment was none other than the avatar of God Tree.

The god king was unable to do that.

It was simply the problem of processing power. Managing the whole universe, to do that with human body, or to be more accurate human mind was impossible even after he stole the avatar’s body and no matter how much law technique and concept magic were used to cover up for his deficiency.

The abrasion to his mind was advancing bit by bit even when he didn’t wield the avatar’s authority. Despite his immortal body he reached a point where a replacement was required in merely several centuries.

Taeko held her as though to say Draa~~ts.

「The result was the Principles Breaking Down Phenomenon became unstoppable, and its influence was also spreading out rapidly……」

「How should I put it, just because the effect of the Principles Breaking Down Phenomenon could be held in check if the range was limited to the area centered around the God Tree’s planet, he decided to completely abandon the remote regions of the universe……that god king guy was seriously screwed up. That’s too much war crime.」

Just as Nana said with twitching face, the god king handed down a decision that ought to be called a type of defiance.

In a sense, the overpopulation problem can be solved with this isn’t it, the king said.

In addition, his control was unable to reach until every corner of the universe, Who knew when new technology might get developed somewhen and somewhere and what happened to the first avatar would be repeated to him. In that case he could just shrink the world to a size that he could manage.

And then, the problem of processing power would be resolved as time passed, and at that time he could return to regaining back the whole universe. Ch 553

But even they can't process the Akashic Record

「Fuumu……it’s just as goshujin-sama hypothesized, there are nine worlds, and the great tree also exist in all the worlds. In addition, there art an origin world that art supporting all these.」

「……Nn. The origin world’s name is “True World Astral”, and the root of the great trees is the “World Tree”. The general term for the great tree in each world is the “World Tree’s Branch”.

「Hajime-kun was the one who coined those names though. After all it’s hard for our imagination to comprehend the goddess terminology that Aularodde-san used.」

「Yeah, that’s right. I coined the name using earth’s legends as reference. After all Aularodde’s explanation about the origin world is just really big.」

According to Aularodde, it was a world where there was just a single tree with immense size that beggared the imagination.

Hajime recited from his memory with his eyes looking at nowhere in particular.

「――The sky becomes the ground, and the ground becomes the sky. Time is flowing forward while also going in reverse at the same time(Two temporal dimension ?). Life and death are circulating infinitely. Past, present, and future all lost their meaning there. It’s an eternal world where every possibility is converging.」

And then, Aularodde said.

Those who reached there would be granted all the equation they wished for. But, that would be like pouring the water of a great waterfall into a small pot. With human body, no, even an existence with divinity would be unable to bear it at all. The moment they wished for those equations and solutions, they would perish.

Therefore,

「”The Grand Record Depository of the World”……even an avatar like Aularodde is unable to reach that world. Even wishing for such thing is a taboo.」

It’s like the concept of Akashic Record at earth isn’t it? Hajime said with a shrug and a wry smile. Yue and others looked like they didn’t know what kind of expression they should make. Ch 386

「While you were talking, you kept using “apparently” or “seems” didn’t you? Don’t tell me, that you guys accessed the Akashic Record――the world tree itself?」

It was an act that was considered a taboo even for actual goddess. Even just accessing it a little was dangerous. If they made a mistake with the timing for cutting the connection, it would be the end of everything for them inside the ocean of information.

Not to mention aiming for information that detailed would be the hardest feat among hardest feats even for a goddess. No, it was just impossible.

When Aularodde searched for the true identity of the “dragon”, she received all kinds of support and somehow obtained only a fragment of the history in broad stroke. Even so her brain almost popped out of balloon just to do that.

Even for people of the very advanced calamity world, it was very easy to imagine how trying that would result considering the fact that they weren’t at the level of avatar. Ch 554

 

[Slayazy]

Hey @Cipher72 ,@Astral_Trinity439
Before I waste time posring scans I'm wondering if these are enough for a tier 2 upgrade


1) The Great Tree might be responsible for the creation of "the heaven and the earth"

2) Avatars govern their universe Space-Time and control the flow of time

3) Avatars could move universes

4) Avatars could fight and defeat a universal threat if they jumped him

5) Authority cover a universal(L2-C) range

6) Being connected to the Great Tree they have access to the Origin Flow(infinite energy) which may also be the "foundation of the world"



Both the Avatars and authorities are created by the great tree and independently they don't seem higher than planetary. So this could be an indirect scaling ?

Does Hajime scale to this ?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Does Hajime scale to this ?

He should

He has his own great tree(Treasure Tree) and he could produce an infinite output with Grasp Gloria as long he is using an artifact

He called it infinite magic power but, the energy that Grasp Gloria produced was “sky dragon force”. By converting it into magic power, and further absorbing it into his body as his personal magic power, he could use the energy for magic and the like.

Of course, there would be no need to match the energy with his personal magic power if he used it as fuel for artifact. And the infinite magic power supplied to Yue and others went through artifact to be converted to their respective magic power, but fundamentally such process was needed.

In short, the total amount of usable energy was functionally infinite, but by needing to go through several processes, everyone couldn’t get rid of the impression that it was a waste in the respect of instantaneous output amount.

and he is capable of manipulating the space-time on a universal scale

「You are keeping that worlds connecting gate open is for the sake of eliminating that time difference isn’t it? I’m feeling interference to space-time from it. Using the divine spirits as a wedge in place……what a forcible method.」

Some exasperation could be glimpsed in Lutria’s eyes that were looking at the gate from where Hajime and co came out. Actually, the gate hadn’t been closed at all since they went through it.

It was a feat that was enabled by the unlimited magic power. This forceful method was none other than the method to temporarily eliminate the time difference between earth and the star spirit world.

 

[Slayazy]

He should

He has his own great tree(Treasure Tree) and he could produce an infinite output with Grasp Gloria as long he is using an artifact

This L2-C as he could manipulate the universal space-time

Preciate the reply, been on the Arifureta series since 2021

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

How about this for AM users logic manipulation ?

それが〝可能性の世界〟の存在だ。



曰く、我々の存在する九つの宇宙でさえ、例えるなら世界樹から伸びる枝の一本、それもずっと先の方に生えた枝葉のようなものにすぎず、隣り合う別の枝葉には類似の世界が、離れた枝葉には全く別の文明が歴史を刻んでいる世界もあり得るらしい。



それどころか、世界樹から生える大本の別の枝ならば、そもそも人類自体が存在していない世界や、物理法則やら概念、世界の理ことわりからして全く異なる世界もあり得るのだとか。

That was the existence of “possible world”.

According to Foltina, even their nine universes were located on nothing more than a single branch from a major branch that extended from the world tree. Furthermore their universes were nothing more than the leaves that grew at the further end of a smaller branch. There were other branches and leaves beside their branch. Nearby branch would have similar worlds with theirs, while the far away branch could possibly could have worlds with completely different culture and history engraved on them.

Not only that, it might even be possible that there were different major branches that grew from the world tree, where mankind itself didn’t exist there in the first place, where the worlds were completely different, in law of physics, concept, or the world’s underlying principle. Ch 470

理 - Jisho.org

jisho.org

So underlying principle=logic and there is a statment about transcending it likely through CM

　理に干渉し、それどころか理を超越した領域にさえ手が届く自分達でも油断すれば敗北し兼ねない強敵だ。

「Mass appearance of void gods? Is such thing possible?」

They knew the identity of the attackers. There was no other existence in this finished world who could attack them other than that.

Void god――revolting existence that attacked from the end of the world. Even with the world had ended, they were completely foreign objects whose existence couldn’t be observed.

They couldn’t be underestimated. Every single one of this opponent who came attacking sporadically was powerful to an atrocious degree.

Their side could meddle with the underlying principles of the cosmos, not only that, even transcending the underlying principles of cosmos was within their reach. But even with such power, they might be defeated against this powerful enemy if they let their guard down. Ch 550

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

A quick recap of the cosmology: The World Tree≈The void=Element>Concept Magic≈Authority>Logic, Law and Concepts


Universal Logic/Law/Concept: are universal constant with each universe having their own. They include the concepts of space, time and info type 2

Authority: an absolute advantage that comes from The Great Trees wich are avatars of TWT

Concept Magic: a concept that is beyond universal logic, laws, and concepts. This is proven when it has been shown reaching The Void and traveling the realms which is prohibited by TWT

The World Tree: each branch of it represent a cosmology with its unique set of Logic, Laws and Concepts

The Void: The concept of nothingness that exist outside TWT

Origin Flow: TWT veins that carry ELEMENT to all its worlds. It's a webway of information that exist in the background and connect all planets, universes, branches and The Void

Element: is the most fundamental "particle" of existence. It's also the energy used by the great trees, but we know its superior to Authorities and Concept Magic

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Could these support the great tree creating worlds ?

But……as expected from the soul fragments of divine spirits and the star tree’s foliage that governed over nature. When they noticed, nature was born inside the orb and the inside became more comfortable to live in instead of outside, so they settled down inside there.

They were free to come out but……at present, everyone had become a splendid shut-in NEET soul fragment. Ch 345

Specifically, Hajime planned to put the Heaven Tree’s branch that was given to him inside his treasure warehouse and made it grew there to be a completely independent and original world tree that wasn’t connected to the World Tree.

If he made use of Grasp Gloria and the mutual conversion system, the creation of an independent world tree――Treasure Tree surely wouldn’t be impossible. With that, he would be able to create the “world inside the treasure warehouse”――at present its temporary name was “Miniature Garden”――to be more complete. (ED: So this is how the “little garden” in Mondaiji-tachi ga was created…)

After all, it was already changing to be a world where divine spirits were living in. If he assembled the same components like the nine worlds and constructed an independent nature system, it would become an even more complete world.

Then the next thing Hajime sought for would naturally be――inhabitants.

In theory, every kind of life form would be able to exist in the Miniature Garden where generation of all kind of energy was possible. Then he should aim to create a world where every kind of race coexisted. Ch 388

All GTs are connected to the World Tree through Origin Flow, maybe that's why Treasure Tree need a subtitue(Grasp Gloria or Earth energy)

『Goshujin-sama hath completely grasped the willpower of this planet. The “Dragon” art not infinite anymore.』

The fundamental solution that Hajime spoke of.

It was none other than the complete control of this planet’s power――the willpower that was flowing from the King Tree.

The awakening and the revival of the “Dragon” was only possible because it devoured willpower. Naturally, its endless power also came from devouring this planet’s power.

In that case, there would be no problem if all the power was robbed right from the source before it could flow to Japan.

Yes, to the world inside the “treasure warehouse” ――the “Miniature Garden”.

Even the immense energy of a planet’s worth wouldn’t be too much if it was assigned to grow the world of Miniature Garden. As a side benefit, it could also be appropriated for accelerating the growth of Miniature Garden’s great tree――the Treasure Tree and the divine spirits.

There was no time, so Hajime also implemented time acceleration using Hour Crystal and Tio’s regeneration magic.

Netemp was constantly attending the element conversion system to control it, and while Laila was sleeping in order to grow, Aularodde served as the substitute goddess of the King Tree.

『Crushing the supply route art the standard tactic in war. Right now Goshujin-sama art capable of supplying the earth’s energy to the designated location in the designated amount anytime.』

In other words, Japan right now was in a state that was completely cut off from willpower. The power of “Dragon” had become limited to only the amount that it contained inside itself.

Furthermore, with this it was like the sacred grounds of the technique users who were awakened all over the world had been seized from them, so they couldn’t receive power as they pleased from the “dragon’s vein” and “dragon’s den” with this.

The fundamental solution that Hajime talked about was none other than “a complete control over earth’s unique energy”.

『That artifact art supplying infinite energy through the Miniature Garden’s Treasure Tree only to those who holdst it. It doth not care what type of power the owner used.』

However, it was still a prototype so Hajime had to control everything manually.

Right now Hajime was closing his eyes while sitting in meditation posture in the Miniature Garden’s world that was cultivating immense as well as abundant nature with the Treasure Tree behind him. He was also using Limit Break in his focus.

Like that, he was continuously supplying infinite power to his comrades, subordinate devils, and the divine spirits who were scattered all over the world.

Hajime had no room to spare for anything else in his extreme focus. But, the way he was clad in the light of star inside a world of his own creation, with the giant tree that was like a world tree behind him, the unlimited power and his homeworld in his grasp, obeyed by devils and divine spirits, and continuously sending endless power only to his chosen all over the world…… Ch 424

Miniature Garden:

An extensive woodland was spreading below their sight.

Needle-leaved trees and broad-leaved trees, pseudo-palm trees and fruit trees. They all had varied colors, and there were even strange trees that had never been seen before, also with varied sizes where some could be mistaken as a great tree or only as tall as a normal person.

「It’s completely chaotic huh.」

『Kukuh, just like its creator mayhaps?』

Tio in her black dragon form and Hajime who was sitting on her back cross-legged were exchanging words while flying leisurely on the sky of “Miniature Garden”.

Hajime’s expression turned really conflicted in respond to Tio’s teasing tone.

They were at the sky approximately 4000 km south of the Treasure Tree that was the center of this world.

On their way here, Hajime and Tio were already witnessing many contradictive environments that would make anyone doubted their eyes, like wetland area and desert area that were next to each other, or lava spewing tall volcano that was smackdab in the middle of a freezing giant lake, etc, etc.

There wasn’t any disorderly sight like those a thousand and several hundred kilometers around the Treasure Tree, so it seemed that the weird spectacles were becoming more frequent the further away they were traveling.

「The distinction of day and night is possible with the operation of the pseudo-sun, but I haven’t been introducing season to this world. In addition, the factor nurturing nature here also isn’t sunlight or nutrient after all.」

That was why, what happened here didn’t reflect the creator’s ethos of 「Let’s take in everything here yeah!」 by all means, maybe. In the end this was something that couldn’t be helped with the structure of the “Miniature Garden”, Hajime said like he was making an excuse.

In fact, the content of that excuse itself was correct.

The energy that was released from the Treasure Tree was everything that was nurturing the “Miniature Garden”. Fundamentally the factors that were required for natural growth in the original world of nature weren’t required here.

Furthermore, that energy didn’t consist only of willpower that was flowing into here from earth. Anticipating the immigrants from various worlds, the element conversion system was releasing all of the other known energies too.

In other words, “Miniature Garden” was a world where unique energies of each other world were intermingling.

Because of that, well, it was understandable that the state of the world became like a hodgepodge of the nature of other worlds.

「I’m basically leaving the management of the nature environment to Enti and others wholesale but……are they still not starting with the distant areas? In any case, sorting this out looks like something worth doing.」

Hajime looked somewhat excited.

The creation of “Miniature Garden” was a difficult act that was equal to creating a whole world. In addition it was an isolated world that didn’t have rotation or revolution like a normal planet.

Even though Enti and others were divine spirits who were governing over nature, governing an artificial world with completely different environment was something that they hadn’t completely worked out all of the kinks from it.

The near areas surrounding the Treasure Tree being a natural environment that were pleasant for Hajime and others to stay at was definitely because of Enti and others adjusting them to be that way.

『Sorting out, is it. Art that necessary? I think nature art called nature because its growth art entrusted to nature though? Perhaps the divine spirits art not doing anything with the distant areas exactly because of such reason.』Ch 481

Which mean the spirits are not responsible for its creation

『By the way, Goshujin-sama. How big art the size of the Miniature Garden currently?』

「In that case……ah? Size? It’s more or less, around the size of earth I guess. The expansion stopped there. The Miniature Garden itself is a spherical space. However, the construction is like the application of the flat earth theory.」

Whoops, Hajime thought while returning his mind to reality.

Willpower that was imported practically by root and branch from the earth’s King Tree plus unlimited magic power.

The amount of energy was overflowing. If automatic brake wasn’t applied to the expansion, the “Miniature Garden” would expand without end. And so for the time being, Hajime kept the size to be similar to some degree with earth as the model.

However, it didn’t mean there was a spherically-shaped land like a planet. The sphere in the end was nothing more than the shape of the space.

At the center of the spherical space was the Treasure Tree. The “surface” part when the space was split into hemisphere state was the land. That was the whole picture of the “Miniature Garden”.

And so, the sky became lower the further one went toward the edge. Below the land there was also a vast space where there was nothing in the shape of hemisphere.

That was just for the time being though. Ch 381

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

The world's memory shouldn't necessarily be limited to a single universe, here's why

『There I caught Amanogawa and others who were in the middle of their journey to have Aularodde tell me about this “dragon”’s true identity.』

But Aularodde knew nothing. The former goddess had no memory of such existence.

According to Aularodde, the world’s memory was taking root in the Heaven Tree. The memory could be accessed by using goddess’s power, so all of them including Kouki’s group rushed to the fairy world.

And then together with the manly goddess, the old and new goddesses worked together. Furthermore they also used Hajime’s infinite magic power to trace back the record. However they didn’t find any record even after going back for nearly ten thousand years.

With no other way, Yue used sublimation magic to the extreme limit in order to increase the goddesses’ processing speed, and they were also made to perform Limit Break forcefully using artifact. Although such measures caused Aularodde’s head to slightly go into a twist, they finally succeeded in determining the identity of that existence. Ch 416.

She also managed to gather info on what happened on Earth

With no other way, Yue used sublimation magic to the extreme limit in order to increase the goddesses’ processing speed, and they were also made to perform Limit Break forcefully using artifact. Although such measures caused Aularodde’s head to slightly go into a twist, they finally succeeded in determining the identity of that existence.

「Eh, wait a second. Nope nope, just nope. Don’t tell me, you aren’t seriously saying that Japan itself is an apparition right? That’s just a metaphor right?」

『I also don’t want to believe it but, that “dragon” was born from a conception of other world, long even before human history began. It was born as a might existence that surpassed even god. And then, it half killed the goddess of Heaven Tree at that time and left the fairy world. After that it seemed that “dragon” arrived on earth.』

And then, the “dragon” that laid earth to waste clashed with the goddess of the alive and well King Tree.

There was also the cooperation of the goddess of the Heaven Tree from across the worlds. With that they somehow succeeded in sealing the “dragon” at the edge of the continent.

Because of the sealed “dragon”’s gigantic body, it became a land before anyone knew it. Fuji Mountain was the equivalent of that “dragon”’s heart.

「Certainly the shape of Japanese islands looked similar like a dragon, but still……something like this is completely a myth isn’t it……」

『It’s an emergency of Japan floating up instead of submerging into sea.』Ch 416

How?

Aularodde looked very satisfied. She also cleared her throat and put on her serious atmosphere.

「Apparitions are existences that is born from legends of other worlds. The heaven tree absorbed the thoughts of the people that are filled with those legends and grant them shape. The heaven tree is the lynchpin of this world with such role.」

According to her, the residences of this world were existences that were materialized from the legends of other worlds.

Legends were the wishes and prayers of the people, or perhaps objects of reverence, or even symbols of fear.

Those things were called as “conception” in general. It was a form of energy that was similar to magic power and the like.

And then, this conception existed in any world. The heaven world absorbed those conceptions through the great trees of other worlds, converted them into the unique energy of this world that was called “thought element”, and gave it form.

「Then……that nine-tails and karasu tengu……they are really existences like in the books?」

「No hero-sama. Certainly the origin of the apparitions are legends, so they possess similar ability. However, their personality is different. They are born in this world, and the self of each of them is established while living in this world. They aren’t existence inside fairy tales, but a living life in this world.」Ch 385

If the Heaven Tree has the function of storing the thoughts of the other realms(conception) then something like memories shouldn't be outside its capability.

So next time someone access the Heaven Tree, we should keep in mind that they are browsing through nine universe worth of info which could support the avatars universal porocessing power



The great trees act as a passages to the Origin Flow(webway of Element, information and conception), so it make sense how people could retain their memories after soul dispersion(EE) and reincarnation.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

A Healer might be the most broken Job

「――”God’s Might”」

Yes, that was “God’s Might”. The strongest light element high class magic at Tortus.

It bombarded with lasers that were as thick as pillars. It was like clear moonlight condensed and fired out. The lasers dazzlingly illuminated the surrounding even though it was noon. It had beauty that was burned into the hearts of those who witnessed it.

Somehow Claudia’s “God’s Might” passed through the barrier of the angels that was forming a restricted battlefield like an arena. The attack magnificently hit the sea lily-thing.

The sea lily-thing tried to escape the moonlight bombardment. But, the firing line moved when Claudia simply tilted her staff slight. The attack wouldn’t let go of the target.

It lasted for perhaps ten seconds.

Before long, Claudia’s “God’s Might” quietly vanished as though melting into thin air.

And then,

「U-unharmed……?」

Someone muttered. Perhaps it was another exorcist, or perhaps a refugee who was in a position where the public square was visible.

Either way, that word was correct.

The sea lily-thing was alive and well. Its body volume had shrunken considerably compared to at first, but it was the work of the angels fighting it. Not even the slightest damage could be seen from the bombardment just now.

Perhaps the sea lily-thing was also feeling anticlimax. It somewhat looked like it was bewildered.

An angle approached at that timing with a long sword.

The sea lily-thing immediately tried to dodge,

――!!?

It was clearly assaulted by agitation. Its body that was flying in the sky fell as though it suddenly remembered about gravity.

It couldn’t dodge in that state. It crashed on the ground and rolled ungainly. The long sword slashed multiple times as it happened.

――＊＊＃＃＃＃！！？

It made a grating shriek that sounded like a flute that was blown too strongly. The flesh that boasted an endurance so great was carved apart so easily. It was diced up into pieces.

Not only that it became unable to maintain its mimicry and returned to its original “amorphous monster” shape.

It swung its tentacles before the mimicry was dispelled completely, but its speed was just a shadow of its former shell. On top that the beam that was like disintegration bombardment also didn’t come out.

Another angel lifted his hand at that moment as though he had been waiting just for that. Fierce flame surged out and incinerated the monster.

As expected it seemed the “amorphous monster” had also lost its resistance against that and was helpless.

This was precisely the power of Claudia’s “God’s Might”.

「Thank God……it seems to be effective.」

Claudia let out a relieved sigh even while her shoulders were heaving with exertion.

It couldn’t be helped that she was anxious. After all her “God’s Might” had zero physical destructiveness for some reason. It was a fatal defect.

To be frank, it was almost purely a magic power bombardment with only the appearance and formula base of “God’s Might”.

However, that was exactly why it had a terrifying trait.

In exchange of not having any physical destructiveness, the magic power contained inside Claudia’s magic attack would soak into the enemy surprisingly easily. It was to the level that it ignored the enemy’s magic resistance, struggle, and immunity altogether.

In short, she forcefully mixed her own magic power into the energy inside the opponent’s body.

Something like that wasn’t their own magic power anymore. That was why it became strikingly difficult to use.

Their magic power had already gotten blown away and decreased considerably, and yet even the remaining magic power had also gotten polluted with Claudia’s magic power. It wasn’t something really usable for them anymore.

「It’s a defective magic that can only neutralize at best but……fufu, Kaori-sensei too might be delighted if I prove that it’s usable.」

She smiled wryly and exhaled out her breath.

Kaori-sensei. Yes, Claudia asked for teaching not at Yue but Kaori.

It was Yue’s recommendation. Kaori was praised as “saintess” at Tortus. That was why she thought that Kaori would be fitting for Claudia who was earth’s “saintess”. But that wasn’t the only reason. It was because the two’s characteristic closely resembled each other.

――You have natural talent in light element. Moreover……your talent is especially prominent in “sharing” and “accepting”.

Those were Yue’s words. Ch 566

This is basically a UES null

The reason it has no offensive power

It went without saying that it didn’t matter if it was healing, barrier, and also support type magic, if it was light element then Claudia had the talent to learn it with speed that wasn’t at all inferior compared to Kaori in the past.

But there was more. In addition, “if the chanting was replaced with scripture, for some reason the magic’s effect would be greater than when she invoked the magic using Tortus-style chanting”.

Surely, her experience from accumulated training with sweat and blood ever since she was small had come into effect.

However, for some reason.

The magic wouldn’t work well the moment it came to attack type magic.

Even if she managed to activate it somehow, the effect was completely different from how it should be. Everything became “forcefully dyed with her magic power into pure magic power attack……attack?”.

It went without saying Kaori-sensei became 「What’s thiiiis?」 while holding her head at her wits’ end. At the end she even went 「Surely this is just because I can’t teach well. I’m sorry, I’m not a good teacher like Yue-sensei……sorry, I’m sorry……」 and went to hug her knees at the corner of the room.

『This is precisely your virtue. The wonderful disposition that we recognize as “saintess”.』

「Raphael-sama……thank you very much.」

The kind affirmation and praise from the archangel melted Claudia’s expression into a broad smile.

Surely, this was her intrinsic quality. No matter that Claudia Barenberg was the strongest against devil, no matter how many of them she had subjugated.

She was a saintess.

She was a saintess not because she was the strongest, or because she could use the Holy Cross. Her essence, the core of her self was “for the sake of someone”.

Just like when she smiled and suppressed her desire for revenge that had kept burning for twelve years, saying that leaving it to Yue would be the sure thing to do to protect earth.

When it was really needed, she surely wouldn’t hesitate to sacrifice herself.

The act of sharing.

The act of accepting.

That characteristic was so striking that if she didn’t use her sacred treasure’s function, Claudia’s own power would be unusable to harm other people.

Rather than calling it talent in light element, this saintess’s innate talent was in transferring and absorbing magic power.

That was Claudia Barenberg’s characteristic quality.

The true essence of her talent was transferring magic power, therefore if she had some time she could convert her magic power to the target’s magic power. In short, it might even turn into assistance for her enemy. In that point it was a really saintly quality of her.

In short, her attack magic was――”I won’t allow you to say no! I’ll have you acecpt my power even if I have to force you!”, which was a kind of “the ultimate meddling magic”. Ch 566

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Could they?

Arifureta: could they beat Goku?

Proposals: The great trees should have a L-2C AP, LS, Range and so do avatars through Authorities Avatars should have a supergenius intelligence and cosmic awarness Agree: Disagree: Neutral:

vsbattles.com

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Is this immeasurable speed?

「So, the “beast monster”……apparently these guys named it the “Hound” but, no need to worry. That’s their precious saving.」

「As, as I thought huh.」

「It was summoned with a “tool of power” similar to the “book” but, it can’t be used anymore. Richard didn’t get attacked by it because a “mark that weaken the influence of time” was engraved on his body.」

The “beast monster” in the fictive mythology lurked in “the end of time of the far away past”, then by doing something like going upstream to the past using secret medicine like “time return drug” and the like it emerged from acute angle. But, about the emergence condition, it was a manipulation from the Explorers.

In reality the right interpretation was “disseminating secret drug that disturb time in the air”.

The “tool of power” in Richard’s possession, with its ability it disseminated secret drug to a fixed range like a sprayer――in other words, it was a tool that could disturb the “time” within a certain range even if only subtly.

In the first place the secret drug’s remaining amount was only enough for one time use, and even that remaining amount was little so the effective range was limited inside the church.

「I see? Well, for now I’ll take it to mean that there’s no worry of him doing a surprise summon.」Ch 546

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

@Digital_Franz ,@Astral_Trinity439

“Anyway, what I meant about the general idea was that. Every ancient magic lets you manipulate some fundamental fact of nature, but until now, we didn’t realize which ones they all were. And in order to use concept magic, you have to understand the fundamental aspects of every ancient magic.”

“Mmm... Plus, understanding them all is so difficult that you need to be strong enough to clear every labyrinth to withstand the burden the knowledge places on your mind.”

That was the reason the Liberators had required potential challengers to clear every labyrinth before bestowing upon them the knowledge of concept magic. Now that Hajime and Yue had acquired all seven of them, they realized their understanding of each ancient magic had been lacking. Take for example creation magic, which had been Hajime’s lifeline all this time.

It wasn’t “magic that let you enchant ore,” but rather “magic that let you manipulate inorganic matter.” In other words, the polar opposite of metamorphosis magic. Now that Hajime knew this, he realized creation magic could be applied to water or salt too.

Furthermore, gravity magic was magic that manipulated the planet’s energy. In other words, those who knew it could interfere with a planet’s magnetic field or utilize geothermal energy like magma. It could be used to cause earthquakes or volcanic eruptions as well.

Spatial magic was magic that manipulated boundaries. Meaning it could be used to create entire dimensions as well as manipulate the boundaries between fantasy and reality. A skilled master could turn reality into illusion and illusions into reality.

Restoration magic was magic that manipulated time. Which explained why in her message, Meiru had described it as magic that restores and not magic that heals. However, it could do more than just restore things to a previous state. Since it could interfere with time directly, it could be used to look into the past or potential futures based on set decision variables. Shea’s Future Sight was, in fact, just one application of restoration magic.

Spirit magic was magic that manipulated the incorporeal elements of sentient beings. In more concrete terms, it could be used to manipulate the heat, electricity, and other matterless energy that circulated within a person’s body. That also included things like memories, thoughts, and consciousness. With enough skill, a spirit magic user could take those incorporeal elements, duplicate them, and create a new soul out of them. In other words, create another person.

Evolution magic was magic that manipulated information. When it was used to strengthen someone’s stats or skills, it effectively overwrote the “information” of their abilities with something of a higher tier. But evolution magic could also be used to view the information of any person or object, as well as interfere with their total mana capacity.

All the ancient magics had been given the names they had because those names best represented how that magic interfaced with people.

Incidentally, the Compass of Eternal Paths used spirit magic to read the users wishes, then used spatial magic to pinpoint the location of what they desired, and finally used evolution magic to process all of that information and display it accurately. None of those three things were possible with the more well-known applications of ancient magic. Hajime explained all of that to the others, and Shizuku frowned a little.

“I see. So every ancient magic can interfere with some fundamental abstract concept. I guess that’s too much for normal humans to handle. No wonder you can’t just make something to take us home... From the sound of it, it’ll be pretty difficult to combine all the right elements together...” Vol 10 p215

Could Ancient Magic be outer?

Their side could meddle with the underlying principles of the cosmos, not only that, even transcending the underlying principles of cosmos was within their reach. But even with such power, they might be defeated against this powerful enemy if they let their guard down. Ch 550

The lowest rank was the third rank, then the second rank, the first rank, and then the top was the special rank technique user.

The third rank was those who could use even one age of god magic. It was the line when someone got recognized as a law technique user.

From there they became second rank when they could use multiple age of god magic, first rank if they could reach even one of the essences of age of god magic, and special rank if they could deepen the essence even further, or perhaps being able to use multiple. Ch 551

Gravity Magic could reach The Void and Origin Flow

Then, what was the “annihilation” phenomenon of “Black Sky Destitution” specifically meant?

『……Our gravity magic is something inherited from Miledy. Domain that is beyond Miledy’s understanding is also unknown for us. But, I formed a hypothesis when hearing Mercurys’s story.』

「That’s……don’t tell me!」

The lord created several clones that hurriedly attempted to strengthen “Black Sky Destitution” by activating multiple of it while looking toward chibi Yue with widened eyes.

Chibi Yue nodded.

『……Perhaps, “Black Sky Destitution” is a magic that open a very very small hole.』

A magic that interfered with planet’s energy. That was to say, a magic that interfered with “that planet’s unique origin flow”.

It was said that origin flow didn’t just connect between worlds but also connect to “void”.

A user of gravity magic from birth. A monster that laid her hand on the planet’s energy while still in her teen age and obtained endless magic power.

A genius among genius that carried The detailed principle? Who knows! I can do it when I tried! into real practice.

If she sought a magic that surpassed “Severance Calamity” and arrived at a spell that ejected the target into the “void” at the end of it.

『……Perhaps Hajime and I, had seen “void” before.』

There was no respond from the lord. Because he was directing his focus into maintaining and reinforcing “Black Sky Destitution”. But, the cracks didn’t stop spreading. “Black Sky Destitution” was starting to creak like it was screaming.

Chibi Yue stared at that while the real Yue recalled.

Their time at the “Holy Precinct” at the end.

The complete blackness that was like nothingness that appeared in the crumbling pure white space.

If, if that thing that approached them while swallowing everything was “void”. Ch 557

I got no idea how in interpret this and would like outside opinions on it

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

bro is just typing shit atp

 

[Community_Gamer]

bro is just typing shit atp

Lmao

 

[Community_Gamer]

@Digital_Franz ,@Astral_Trinity439
Could Ancient Magic be outer?



Gravity Magic could reach The Void and Origin Flow

I got no idea how in interpret this and would like outside opinions on it

Can you explain why this would be 1-A?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Can you explain why this would be 1-A?

Or Low 1-A, but only if my interpretation turns out to be true


Transcending the concepts of space and time and reaching conceptual realms is Low 1-A minimum

 

[Community_Gamer]

Or Low 1-A, but only if my interpretation turns out to be true


Transcending the concepts of space and time and reaching conceptual realms is Low 1-A minimum

I know what qualifies as L2-A. I'm asking for your interpretation of this quest

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I know what qualifies as L1-A. I'm asking for your interpretation of this quest

Of what exactly?


Ehit's dimension is another example of something that is beyond A.M.

"We need to get to where Ehit is! We have to go through that vortex!”

“I’m trying to get us there! But...shit! I’m sorry.”

The frustration in Naiz’s voice made it clear that even after understanding the true nature of spatial magic—the ability to manipulate boundaries—he still couldn’t push his way into Ehit’s domain.

Laus couldn’t sense any souls on the other side of the vortex either. Lyutillis couldn’t appraise what the vortex was even made of, nor could Miledi find any way to destroy it. Whatever it was, it was beyond even ancient magic. Zero Vol 6 p185

There is no implication of Concept Magic being used to create The Holy Precinct , so why is the gate leading to it beyond EOS Liberators?


The answer is simple: the white vortex is a gate to Origin Flow that connect everything

Hajime ignored that and narrowed his eyes.

「……It’s similar. To the “gate” connecting to the “Holy Precinct”.」

「「「「「Ah」」」」」

Shia and others all let their voices slipped out. Because it was certainly similar. With the whirling “gate” of light that Ehito created during the final battle at Tortus.

「……Nn. The principle is similar. But, it’s not magic power.」

「Yeah. If I have to say which it is……」

Hajime was using his magic stone eye and Yue her sublimation magic “Information Penetration” to analyze the phenomenon, but it was just as they expected. Apparently they didn’t have much time for leeway.

The vortex of light shined even brighter. It was followed by fierce flickering and sparks that were like lightning that the “divine gate” didn’t have started running all over it. Ch 546

「Rainbow bridge……」

「Yes, that’s what we call the vortex of light that enable moving between worlds.」

That vortex of light didn’t look like rainbow, and there was a myth at earth about such bridge flashing at the back of Hajime’s mind, but there was something else that had to be prioritized right now so he put that aside and nodded back.

「What should I do?」

Manager Mercury’s gaze turned behind. She was looking at the sapling floating in the air enveloped in pure white light, and the white cat patiently sitting in front it.

「You only need to emit magic power to that spot. This space and the white cat(Holow) will do the rest.」

The white cat was apparently named Holow. No particular emotion could be felt from the gaze quietly staring at Hajime. But, there was the sensation of being observed from it.

「You’re alright with magic power?」

「……Now that you mention it, you were also handling different energy weren’t you. Artificial formation of origin flow……no, let’s put that aside for now. Yes, magic power is just fine.」Ch 552

"Artificial formation of origin flow" is refering Crystal Key method of travel. She was surprised he teleported to "the white space" till she saw the crystal key

Meanwhile, with Hajime who teleported away.

「This is surprising. This place should be spatially isolated though……」

It was a mysterious space. It was pure white, however, the wall, ceiling, and floor weren’t really clear. Even though he felt the sensation of his feet attached on the ground, he couldn’t measure the distance from the floor.

Hajime thought, This is like, “deep inside the Holy Precinct” where I fought Ehito huh.

「……That’s……a key filled with concept magic? I see, with that it makes sense how you can enter here.」

He looked forward. The woman in white robe who was talking to him, he narrowed his eyes when he saw her appearance. Ch 551

That white space was created by her

「First let me apologize. Actually I was leaking this talk of ours to my friends.」

「I could feel a thin connection to outside from this space, so I thought that’s the case.」

「You realized as expected huh. I made the hole as small as possible but……this is an isolated space and I’m in front of its designer. As expected that’s impossible huh.」

「You don’t need to apologize. It’s only natural to be on guard, rather I can feel your reliability from the way you leave nothing to chance.」Ch 554

There is also the possibility that Ehit was going to use Origin Flow to travel to Earth, but Yue could't without CM.


Why can't Concept Magic reach another branch?

The origin flow surrounded the world tree. So to speak it was the pipes that brought water and nutrition to the tree. In one branch, that was “the world containing nine universes” the pipes were extending and flowing to each other.

Riding on that flow, or forcefully advancing inside the pipe.

That was the difference in teleportation methods between the calamity world and Hajime.

But, those methods were possible because they happened inside the range of the “same branch”.

In a “different branch”, which meant the parallel world, there was no flow of the origin flow. Of course, it was another branch that extended originally from the world tree so the origin flow was connected but, it would be like going against the flow to go through the main branch and then detoured to go to a different branch.

「……It’s not something human body can endure huh.」

「Yes, it’s impossible.」

In case of a compressed and hardened lump of sugar merely going with the water flow and in case of it going against the current, which one would be able to maintain its shape longer? It was that kind of image.

「Then, what about ignoring the branch? What is there between the branches, and between the leaves?」

「Normally there’ll be air. Aa, so it’s that kind of image. In the place of air there’s this “void” huh.」Ch 553

Different branches not having concepts that are fundamental to the nine realms

Law Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2. Every ancient magic manipulates some fundamental abstract concept, they control the core elements that govern the laws of the world, can influence and alter the fundamental laws of the universe, as they are the underlying principles that gover the very universe, and concept magic which uses the power of ancient magic can rewrite the laws of reality.

The universal concepts might be just a limited extension of World Tree branches

That was the existence of “possible world”.

According to Foltina, even their nine universes were located on nothing more than a single branch from a major branch that extended from the world tree. Furthermore their universes were nothing more than the leaves that grew at the further end of a smaller branch. There were other branches and leaves beside their branch. Nearby branch would have similar worlds with theirs, while the far away branch could possibly could have worlds with completely different culture and history engraved on them.

Not only that, it might even be possible that there were different major branches that grew from the world tree, where mankind itself didn’t exist there in the first place, where the worlds were completely different, in law of physics, concept, or the world’s underlying principle.

「It’s not a simple story where there’s an origin world and that’s it huh.」Ch 470

Similar to how CM is created, you have to understand other branches principles to create a concept superior to them. So CM might be useless on other branches, but I'm not sure yet most of this are my own interpretations


I got the that statment as transcendence

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

My interpretation is consistent with previous explanation

“Anyway, what I meant about the general idea was that. Every ancient magic lets you manipulate some fundamental fact of nature, but until now, we didn’t realize which ones they all were. And in order to use concept magic, you have to understand the fundamental aspects of every ancient magic.”

“Mmm... Plus, understanding them all is so difficult that you need to be strong enough to clear every labyrinth to withstand the burden the knowledge places on your mind.”

That was the reason the Liberators had required potential challengers to clear every labyrinth before bestowing upon them the knowledge of concept magic. Now that Hajime and Yue had acquired all seven of them, they realized their understanding of each ancient magic had been lacking. Take for example creation magic, which had been Hajime’s lifeline all this time.

It wasn’t “magic that let you enchant ore,” but rather “magic that let you manipulate inorganic matter.” In other words, the polar opposite of metamorphosis magic. Now that Hajime knew this, he realized creation magic could be applied to water or salt too.

Furthermore, gravity magic was magic that manipulated the planet’s energy. In other words, those who knew it could interfere with a planet’s magnetic field or utilize geothermal energy like magma. It could be used to cause earthquakes or volcanic eruptions as well.

Spatial magic was magic that manipulated boundaries. Meaning it could be used to create entire dimensions as well as manipulate the boundaries between fantasy and reality. A skilled master could turn reality into illusion and illusions into reality.

Restoration magic was magic that manipulated time. Which explained why in her message, Meiru had described it as magic that restores and not magic that heals. However, it could do more than just restore things to a previous state. Since it could interfere with time directly, it could be used to look into the past or potential futures based on set decision variables. Shea’s Future Sight was, in fact, just one application of restoration magic.

Spirit magic was magic that manipulated the incorporeal elements of sentient beings. In more concrete terms, it could be used to manipulate the heat, electricity, and other matterless energy that circulated within a person’s body. That also included things like memories, thoughts, and consciousness. With enough skill, a spirit magic user could take those incorporeal elements, duplicate them, and create a new soul out of them. In other words, create another person.

Evolution magic was magic that manipulated information. When it was used to strengthen someone’s stats or skills, it effectively overwrote the “information” of their abilities with something of a higher tier. But evolution magic could also be used to view the information of any person or object, as well as interfere with their total mana capacity.

All the ancient magics had been given the names they had because those names best represented how that magic interfaced with people.

Incidentally, the Compass of Eternal Paths used spirit magic to read the users wishes, then used spatial magic to pinpoint the location of what they desired, and finally used evolution magic to process all of that information and display it accurately. None of those three things were possible with the more well-known applications of ancient magic. Hajime explained all of that to the others, and Shizuku frowned a little.

“I see. So every ancient magic can interfere with some fundamental abstract concept. I guess that’s too much for normal humans to handle. No wonder you can’t just make something to take us home... From the sound of it, it’ll be pretty difficult to combine all the right elements together...” Vol 10 p215

AM is based on knowledge and comprehension

 

[BoastJr]

Looks 5-B

Maybe tier 2 at best

 

[Hecky2222]

Agree with LoTM Atoms H1-A+