Same I don't buy low 1-C or immeasurable, heck as you said the immeasurable would literally be plot breaking for ultima to fear something as finite as the spread of the blight, bro wouldn't even need to try and amass a new vessel and build all of this magic to cast raise on his race if he could simply just time travel back to them via sheer speed and say be careful about this blight shit
hopefully you can just make a CRT on it later on if we ever get the verse pages lmfao
Tbf, the blight is like their kryptonite is it not? doesn’t it erode all magic? the only way to stop it is to stop using magic all together. i dont see how being low 1-c or immeasurable is contradictory of that in a way that already isn’t contradicting the values we already have.
Its something thats finite and spreads slowly over time, time being the key factor here, it takes finite time to spread. If you're immeasurable then something that is finite is no threat to you when you can just keep jumping back in time to where it has not yet spread
yeah but it’s not like the blight is a combatant, wasn’t it like a threat their like way of living and not actually them? if’s been a while since i’ve played the game tho but iirc unless u want them to keep going back in time lol.
The blight nearly drove the Ultimas to extinction, the 16 we see in the game are the only surviors that managed to successfully flee from their original homeland when the blight first appeared, the rest of their species were killed by it.
This^^^
Just "Raise" no "Arise" or "Reraise?" lame AF.
Was gonna make a joke about the average White Mage from FF1 soloing FF16 since they can learn Arise until I remembered that they actually do solo FF16 lmao
"Dissidia buffs" Clive truly has it rough if this is the best hes getting
Love it when they just embrace the over the top spectacularity.
Don't believe we have one
this is very rough.I found this on Google (oof!)
Clive Rosefield Profile blog
vsbattles.fandom.com
Idk just workshopping.
Could swap endgame to "completed vessel" since by the end he has everything from every eikon including leviathan and was given some of Ultima's power too. He also absorbs the Phoenix completely at the very end so yeah I'd say "completed vessel" works
Yeah since all of that DLC stuff happens right before they confront Ultima at the end so yeah
Yeah, but it's still a real tangible realm that exists given it's noted to be a place beyond time and space and is a rift between other dimensions, Clive, Joshua, and Torgal were able to be physically teleported there and Ultima's old physical body even remains there. Mindscapes can be used for scaling so long as they're treated like an actual realm like FF16 does with the interdimensional rift.
The blight is a result of using magic, creating another realm like the interdimensional rift wouldn't solve the issue since if they started using magic there they'd just bring about the blight again which is why they didn't just make the interdimensional rift and chill in there for all eternity. Not to mention creating a new world free of the blight at all was just the half of it, the other purpose of Ultima's plan was to revive their race since most of them were killed by the blight.
Well, yeah. We've already accounted for this by having the stronger Eikons be small country level based on some calcs and Ifrit Risen / Bahamut amped by a mother crystal being Multi-Continental.
Ok I'm not sure what your point is here, we've already accepted Ifrit Risen and amped Bahamut as Continental via that statement.
The blight isn't something that can just be blown away with physical force, you step into an area covered in blight and it stops anyone from using magic, and it's magic that brings the blight in the first place so using magic to get rid of it is pointless since using that magic will just bring more blight, which will eventually stop the use of magic and make the land inhabitable and start killing all life as a result. Flying away and nuking it from a distance at best just delays it's spread, it's a hax based problem. Plus if you wanna go the route of Ultimalius not below planetary or something for being unable to save his contienent from the blight, you may as say he's not even building level given the blight spreads slow enough it takes time to engulf a few hundred meters.
Ultima Risen was basically clowning on them the entire fight, they were at best a minor annoyance to him not roughly equal or only just slightly beneath him which was best shown by him casually creating a barrier that no sold their Tri-Attack and then shortly after showing up to Clive and Joshua unharmed after he dealt with Bahamut.
We treat them like lasers for several reasons, spefically the ones that Clive dodges / reacts to act very similar to lasers, moving in a straight line, burning on contact, etc...). We don't just say any beam is a laser just a few specific ones.
Sorry, but it's a mindscape. I don't accept creating a starscape for it. Doesn't matter if Clive and co got moved there. You can do anything in a mindscape, and furthermore as it's a complete outlier it stands against the grain. If the rest of the story was even close, sure. But it's not. You won't get me to budge on this. It's just a mindscape, no creation feat. It is, by design, not the same as creating physical matter or physical space. And it's ridiculous for you to think otherwise and draws all your other conclusions in to question.
He created regular Bahamut, not amped Bahamut. Amped Bahamut was the one that got that statement and the statement itself is already questionable. You're 3 degrees of reaching here, nevermind that we're talking about magical power here... not strength or speed...
It's straight up stated to exist in between other worlds, if it's just a mindscape that exists only in Ultimas mind and has nothing physical about it, how would it also exist in between other physical dimensions?
Then what point were you even trying to make with this:
Ultima overpowered Ifrit during their first clash, stopped Pheonixs attack with a casual backhand without even looking at him, easily blocked Bahamuts attack and soon after knocked away Ifrit and Pheonix with one punch, then he unleashed a beam attack that easily shattered Bahamuts barrier, dunks on Ifrit during their brief 1v1 with Ifrit only getting a single hit in at the very end, and then he easily just blocks their combined Tri-Attack. And to top it all off, he hits Ifrit with a single punch which is shown to have completely knocked him unconscious.
Quite literally the opposite of an outlier, there is nothing capping Ultima's strength at the end when he's just absorbed all of his people who have gathered thousands of years worth magic power as the mothercrystals, he's at the strongest he's ever been.
This doesn't still discredit anything about it being its own physical dimension even if its made from his mind, being made from something doesn't limit it to only that thing. It may have been created from his fragmented mind but it is still a physical dimension that exist between worlds on a plane beyond time and space
Its not exaggerating by any means he quite literally low diffs them and while he's suprised by Bahamut sacrifical beam it does nothing to actually harm him
Specifcally beams of light btw, but even then we're not counting all of said attacks as SoL anyways in calcs so point here is moot
You know the magical power enhances both the strength and speed right? Guess not but anyways while this is true you realize he got that strong after eating a piece of the mothercrystal which contained a fraction of fraction of the total magical power Ultima would have at the end with the full power from each of those he absorbed into himself
The literal plot of the game? He abandoned his flesh flew to this land and created humanity and eikons for his plans, this ultima is weakened already when he does this
Just asking, what do you mean? The Ultimania has been released for a long while and is mostly translated. Are you referring to another kind of book?
The fact Ifrit could even get a hit in is a big deal who, for someone 1 on 1 should be leagues above them. Don't mistake me saying the trio is close if slightly underneath them for any one of them individually being close to them. They're close enough in power to damage him, but his barriers are stronger than their standard output (but can be overwhelmed and attrition'd) he hits harder than they do, and he's a bit faster. Durability is questionable but seems lower, actually.
An outlier is when you have a piece of media where everyone is performing tier 6 feats, then suddenly someone does one tier 4 feat. That's an outlier, and you can't argue it isn't. That's what it is.
Ultima doesn't have to blitz them to be leagues above them, he is still far stronger than the trio at the end of tbe game so yeah they can land hits but it doesn't matter when the hits do nothing to him or phase him
Wholly disagree here even after everything they do they only nicked his health down maybe 5% max with him not exerting really any effort until the beam clash at the end. The oh can show suprise he actually managed to get a last attack off in the first place but claiming it harmed him is headcanon
To say it again, just because the rift was made from Ultima's fractured mind doesn't mean it can't be a physical dimension we're literally told it is after all. Being made from something ≠ being limited to the thing its made from. The dimension can be made from Ultima's fragmented mind yet still a real spatial dimension, you're treating it as if this is a mutually exclusice thing.
Why would cloud be able to do that? The meteor scales above sephiroth. You know the whole lifestream is like multiversal and encompasses several timelines and worlds, seph is just like galaxy level. His whole plan revolves around absorbing its power to grow stronger
Ultima's plan was to revive his fallen race using raise that's why he gathed all that magic not to cure the blight and get rid of magic, bro doesn't want to stop being a god and give it all up.
Then you'd be arguing headcanon, there is no set amount of energy needed to erase magic as a concept from their world its incomparable. The same goes for Ultima'a casting raise for his race we can only judge those by how much the narrarive emphasizes the scale of those feats versus others and both Raise and whatever the magic wiping stuff Clive did are just above what would be needed otherwise for Ultima's other feats.
Thats not what an outlier is actually, its part of what an outlier is but not the full context.
Also the Ultimania doesn't have what we need, there is a second lorebool coming out the Logos: World of FF16 Lore book
It's just as headcanon to assume it did nothing. Otherwise you're saying he dropped his form for no reason.
I agree, he's just not in "clowning" territory.
Fair enough. I forgot about this. But it does have some stuff. It's not completely vacant.
tbf I was just giving an example. I wasn't covering everything.
So are the rebuttals. That being said, does this thread not influence the CRT? A lot of feats would have to be left out if they're leaving out anything that can be "interpreted".
Well, yes. I think you read my comment a little off. I wasn't saying he was trying to get rid of magic, but getting rid of the side effect: Blight. It's part of the plan.
That's what I said and gave reasoning for? Lots of people argue headcanon in the vs fights all the time. I see it in every thread pretty much. They just have to give sufficient reasoning for it and I feel I did that. Creating an alternate dimension doesn't stop the Blight, yes, but it becomes irrelevant. The blight affects the land, not the people (directly). So just keep creating land over and over.
Exactly my point.
Ridiculous. You don't even know what BS Tetsuya Nomura is cooking up in the remake. Besides, as far as I see it, it's not the same continuity. Same characters, different story. You can't be sure the lifestream in the other timelines in the same lifestream and not just a parallel copy.
