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Big Moon Knight Rework

The_Impress

She/Her
VS Battles
Retired
Messages
12,807
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8,633

This is the VSBW adaption of All Fiction Battles pages as done by Confluctor, an ex-staff who completed exhausting Moon Knight's appearance list. The page is to be divided into two, Classic and Modern, and there still might be some work to be done relinking some elements, but regardless they're a direct upgrade from our present pages. All credit goes to Connie ofc.

Not much to say, notify any changes you see
 
Shouldn't Carbonadium armour be a specific tier and not just higher?
 
Seems ok, but the High 1-A stuff needs to be nerfed, nothing in there is High 1-A from the looks of it.
 
Seems ok, but the High 1-A stuff needs to be nerfed, nothing in there is High 1-A from the looks of it.
I agree with Eseseso, disagree with High 1-A with the thread, but the formatting looks wierd tbh. You should bold the Abilities, resistances and Types too
 
Seems ok, but the High 1-A stuff needs to be nerfed, nothing in there is High 1-A from the looks of it.
K. As discussed offsite it's presently 1-A, correct?
Via it being directly compared to Adamantium, which we treat this way.
We don't do it uniformly and our adamantium standards on wiki are fundamentally ass, so I disagree.
You should bold the Abilities, resistances and Types too
No.
 
Hmm. I am not a fan of the way in which the draft page has been divided by tabbers for most single statistics, but dividing it into classic and modern pages might fix that problem.

I am also not a fan of the High 1-A statistics for above-mentioned reasons, combined with that Khonshu has generally not been portrayed at anywhere near that scale, such as when a Khonshu-possessed Moon Knight was only able to attack Thor by slamming moons-onto him, or when Khonshu was unable to hurt Cyttorrak in the slightest, but I may misremember some details.

And I also think that we are currently reevaluating the statistics for many of our lower level Marvel Comics characters due to bad calculations.

Except for that it seems to be a well-researched page. 🙏
 
I wanted to do this, but I took too long so it's fair game, lmao.

First, I disagree with giving a key to Steven Grant and Jake Lockley, there's actually no fundamental change in their strength, speed, etc. If anything, Marc should be given a tier by himself since he's actively WEAKER when alone, both Grant and Lockely have mostly work together as Moon Knight. And tematically speaking, it's kinda bad too since THEY ALL are Moon Knight, and work together as Moon Knight. Also, straight up take Phases of the Moon Knight key out. It's only a single issue comic set in the future and has NO influence in any other comics of Moon Knight. So it's against the rules and it doesn't have any reason to exist.

Carbonadium should be "far higher" via upscaling from adamantium. TECHNICALLY speaking, it should be at least LOW-1C because of that... But that's stupid. I'm going to downgrade adamantium, don't worry.

Also, Class 1 from Modern MK should be Class K via upscaling from DP since MK stomped him in every way possible after stop holding back but that's from Marc Spector's Returns above. First key should be At least Class 5 via scaling from Bullseye. Also, Classic MK's LS NEEDS AN ACTUAL LOOK because there's no way he's unknown, I'm not sorry.
 
And I also think that we are currently reevaluating the statistics for many of our lower level Marvel Comics characters due to bad calculations.
I know, but this ain't affecting 8-Cs so.
First, I disagree with giving a key to Steven Grant and Jake Lockley, there's actually no fundamental change in their strength, speed, etc. If anything, Marc should be given a tier by himself since he's actively WEAKER when alone, both Grant and Lockely have mostly work together as Moon Knight. And tematically speaking, it's kinda bad too since THEY ALL are Moon Knight, and work together as Moon Knight.
Different personalities so meh
lso, straight up take Phases of the Moon Knight key out. It's only a single issue comic set in the future and has NO influence in any other comics of Moon Knight. So it's against the rules and it doesn't have any reason to exist.
k
Carbonadium should be "far higher" via upscaling from adamantium. TECHNICALLY speaking, it should be at least LOW-1C because of that... But that's stupid. I'm going to downgrade adamantium, don't worry.
nah im just not giving it a tier because adamantium scaling on the wiki rn is dogshit, so far higher it is
Also, Class 1 from Modern MK should be Class K via upscaling from DP since MK stomped him in every way possible after stop holding back but that's from Marc Spector's Returns above. First key should be At least Class 5 via scaling from Bullseye. Also, Classic MK's LS NEEDS AN ACTUAL LOOK because there's no way he's unknown, I'm not sorry.
K, make the fixes rq
 
Thank you for helping out to Impress and Tomfer. 🙏
 
Impress, the entire Lemire run goes against this "meh" of yours.
Firstly most conclusions of the Lemire run got overturned by the Bemis run, secondly I still don't think they contradict separation of keys.
And the only one who has "feats" when alone is Marc, and the feat is that he's too prideful and got his ass handed to him.
Plenty of write-up for the feats. Lame feats are still feats.
 
Firstly most conclusions of the Lemire run got overturned by the Bemis run, secondly I still don't think they contradict separation of keys.

Plenty of write-up for the feats. Lame feats are still feats.
Both culturally outside and inside of powerscaling BS, the Lemire run still holds more value than the Bemis run. And "overturned" is an extreme word because, while that is true in the dogshit Bemis run, any other run has shown more connection to the Lemire story. "Contradict"? What you do mean? It's not about that, it's about the fact that the only excuse these keys should exist is that they have different battle tactics, something that is EASILY fixed by just using the Notable Attacks/Techniques and Standard Tactics instead. As much as I agree that we should use more keys in the marvel profiles, we shouldn't bloat it with filler. And wrong filler that is, because the only one who actually has an in-lore different power difference when alone is Marc, like I said.
 
Both culturally outside and inside of powerscaling BS, the Lemire run still holds more value than the Bemis run.
Cool, doesn't really matter. Welcome to indexing.
nd "overturned" is an extreme word because, while that is true in the dogshit Bemis run, any other run has shown more connection to the Lemire story. "Contradict"?
If there is no contradiction we will not discount the Bemis run, and Bemis run overturns the conclusion Lemire run and MacKay run doesn't redo that conclusion.
It's not about that, it's about the fact that the only excuse these keys should exist is that they have different battle tactics, something that is EASILY fixed by just using the Notable Attacks/Techniques and Standard Tactics instead.
Yeah and they'll still be keys even if it's just that section.
we shouldn't bloat it with filler.
Why is a core component of a character's mechanics filler here?
 
Why is a core component of a character's mechanics filler here?
That made me chuckle. You're taking about a core component NOW? You know what's core component of the character? The fact that all of them are Moon Knight. The only one that actually has shown any feats worthy to be a key is Marc and it's here. Especially here. You wanna know why? Read the dialogue. It's all about how weaker they are when alone, especially Marc. With this scan alone shows that, if we are going to keep these keys, they should be downscaled from his base form.

Steven Grant key: "Much weaker than his other personalities due to his personality's focus being on business and making money/connection, and is generally the peaceful one. However, still can fight as a Moon Knight. Struggled against a villain that Jake beat easily" That's all just skill. And even if he struggled against a villain that Jake defeated, Steven CLEARLY caused damage, and a lot even by the blood. And how did Jake defeated him? By a combination of mental hax and skill. Hence my previous point.

Jake Lockely key: "As strong as before, due to having the same body as Marc Spector." That alone should be enough.
 
I also don't think that keys for Moon Knight's civilian identities seem necessary, and Bendis infamously doesn't care at all about keeping track of characterisation, continuity, power levels, narrative tone, or pretty much anything else, and also recurrently gloats about doing his own thing without any consideration for the consequences/being a bull in a china shop. 🙏
 
Bendis infamously doesn't care at all about keeping track of characterisation, continuity, power levels, narrative tone, or pretty much anything else, and also recurrently gloats about doing his own thing without any consideration for the consequences/being a bull in a china shop. 🙏
Bemis, not Bendis.
 
Bemis, not Bendis.
Oh. I apologise for misunderstanding then. I thought that it was similar to how I always call Dan Didio "Dan Didiot" instead, due to all of the enormous smug, wanton, and completely irresponsible damage that he caused to so many characters that I loved. 🙏
 
Anyways to be quite blunt seeing as I have not made the file and am only doing the porting, I cannot give out any extensive pushbacks given I haven't researched the character so I think if you guys want to argue changes and fixes that ARE NOT directly contradictory to how the site works/scales, probably do it in a separate thread when it's applied.

I'll do the fixes and then we can move onto any rescale
 
Last edited:
Removed Phases of Moon Knight, fixed Speed and switched the High 1-A with 1-A.

Addressing scaling:
  • Flag-Smasher and Crossfire's scalings can remain. Both scale to Classic and Modern resepectively and Wall+ makes sense
  • I realized that Hunter's Moon's page needs to be changed to the AFBW version too, so I added him to the sandbox to be accepted alongside
So good to add?
 
Last edited:
Removed Phases of Moon Knight, fixed Speed and switched the High 1-A with 1-A.

Addressing scaling:
  • Flag-Smasher and Crossfire's scalings can remain. Both scale to Classic and Modern resepectively and Wall+ makes sense
  • I realized that Hunter's Moon's page needs to be changed to the AFBW version too, so I added him to the sandbox to be accepted alongside
So good to add?
What do others here think? 🙏
 
Removed Phases of Moon Knight, fixed Speed and switched the High 1-A with 1-A.

Addressing scaling:
  • Flag-Smasher and Crossfire's scalings can remain. Both scale to Classic and Modern resepectively and Wall+ makes sense
  • I realized that Hunter's Moon's page needs to be changed to the AFBW version too, so I added him to the sandbox to be accepted alongside
So good to add?
Does anybody here have any complaints about this, or can what has been accepted here be applied now? 🙏
 
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