Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

[Mbpoops]

No, I know. I'm saying the reason path abilities on profiles are listed like that is because of agenda, while also saying if it was listed like that because of UES it'd be wrong anyway. My bad if things seemed unclear.

I'm fairly certain Honkai UES won't be killed by any changes anyways.


Moon Arc Kevin SHOULD scale to anything barring Aeons given he's likely hundreds of times stronger than anything Welt does. Kevin literally statues and 3v1's Herrschers (HoFS, HoT and HoR) who would mop the floor with Welt without even using his full power. That's statue-ing people several times stronger than Welt, likely at absolute minimum.

However, big however, we don't really have anything to go off of other than vibes for this. I'm sure the above is common consensus but it isn't really provable because Kevin could be anywhere from 10x Welt to 1000x Welt... and even then, we can't prove it's the combined AP of the attacks that wiped out the universe, it could just be a unique interaction like you said.

if we doint have exact speed comparrisons just be like >X speed (superior to welt)

 

[SuperNova55555]

Aeons realistically are hundreds of thousands of times stronger then Welt if he’s barely comparable to a drop of blood

 

[Mbpoops]

Aeons realistically are hundreds of thousands of times stronger then Welt if he’s barely comparable to a drop of blood

good thing they already have infinite speed

 

[Mbpoops]

also... evernight's AE1... how solid is that?

 

[Mbpoops]

also... evernight's AE1... how solid is that?

eh seems fine actually

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

If he has the aoe to do half on his own then why not just end it all on a random Sunday or even by combo attacking with another Ravager instead of Welt Clashing with Zephyro being this horrible alternate future which should be avoided ideally?

Tbf have you seen the man's destruction tendencies

Rams into 4 planets and blows them up

Creates cyclones to destroy a single planet's ecosystem

Randomly shows up to some Star System, erupts a Supernova instantly, dips

Sorches a Planet's surface via his radiation and turning it to glass for ***** n giggles.

 

[SuperNova55555]

good thing they already have infinite speed

Yea so how do they not js completely statue all the Hi3 mfs and oneshot or wtvr

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Tbf have you seen the man's destruction tendencies

Rams into 4 planets and blows them up

Creates cyclones to destroy a single planet's ecosystem

Randomly shows up to some Star System, erupts a Supernova instantly, dips

Sorches a Planet's surface via his radiation and turning it to glass for ***** n giggles.

Eh, that’s kind of a good point, for a guy who can destroy galaxies how he busts things is super inefficient since he appreciates the how behind destroying something.
Welt/Zephyro scaling can still stay, although under new UES rules I think mainly Base Kevin tiers benefit physically

 

[Mbpoops]

Yea so how do they not js completely statue all the Hi3 mfs and oneshot or wtvr

judah.

 

[Mbpoops]

also... evernight's AE1... how solid is that?

i dont fully agree with AE2 march tho

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

judah.

Complete Irontomb getting lowdiffed by Otto this week

 

[Mbpoops]

lygus is worst than the big H what is this anom bruh

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Eh, that’s kind of a good point, for a guy who can destroy galaxies how he busts things is super inefficient since he appreciates the how behind destroying something.
Welt/Zephyro scaling can still stay, although under new UES rules I think mainly Base Kevin tiers benefit physically

Yeah I’m pretty sure Zephyro just destroys shit for the love of the game and destruction. No more fun if everything’s already destroyed.

 

[SuperNova55555]

judah.

Is it passively active EoS or sum? Cuz from the part I’m at, Theresa has to to actively choose to activate it

 

[Mbpoops]

Is it passively active EoS or sum? Cuz from the part I’m at, Theresa has to to actively choose to activate it

More like HoB does judah doesnt have a passive aoe but characters like otto and PE HoB have it. I just like saying judah cause its funny that aeons lowkey die if judah affects them

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

One way a staff member in the thread mentioned physicals could still scale relative to an energy system is if the character does a beam or fire blast or whatever. Shows no visible effort, but punches and kicks gas them out. But I cannot think of a single case in HI3 at least like this at all. Everyone in the verse above Durandal has stamina so good this doesn’t really happen

Have we ever really seen someone get tired in Honkai when they're not explicitly being beaten?

Just being over 100x welt isn’t crazy since. 1% of his power downscales from a Durandal which is above SoE. But Kevin got stronger with the finality authority and has AHR (ignoring deliverance obv cause we know)

Well Durandal is massively stronger than Welt so we already know where that's going. She and Rita utterly outclass Cecilia. It's probably closer to 200x even before Moon Arc and after that it's practically unreasonable to make an guestimate.

 

[Mbpoops]

Have we ever really seen someone get tired in Honkai when they're not explicitly being beaten?

Rita when she lost her honkai energy

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Rita when she lost her honkai energy

 

[Mbpoops]

This is true tho no one really gets tired unless they get diffed but even then sometimes they dont even get tired

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Have we ever really seen someone get tired in Honkai when they're not explicitly being beaten?

Aside from during Arc city when Valkyries were getting power nulled. Nah.
Honkai characters have extremely high stamina compared to their actual attacks.

Case in point, Welt contributed to fully charging a powered down Judgement of Shamash in Second Eruption with his Herrscher core. It was only for one strike, but it’s still inherently impressive. But lord he does not actually scale to that thing.
It’s the same issue the UES thread mentioned where a character has 100k stamina. Their fireball can still use 50 points and a punch can still use 10. So proving they scale to physicals is nigh impossible. We’d need to rely more on NPES principles and standard scaling. Like if a character’s strike overpowers a Herrscher authority for example. Then that’d count.

Well Durandal is massively stronger than Welt so we already know where that's going. She and Rita utterly outclass Cecilia. It's probably closer to 200x even before Moon Arc and after that it's practically unreasonable to make an guestimate

I now see why Houkai Welts used to be a measuring system. Even on this wiki we’re measuring characters on how many Welt’s they’re worth.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

This is true tho no one really gets tired unless they get diffed but even then sometimes they dont even get tired

Oh boy we gonna be looking at that UES staff thread with so much dread however long it takes to finish lmao

 

[DaReaperMan]

Oh boy we gonna be looking at that UES staff thread with so much dread however long it takes to finish lmao

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Idk if this is Honkai (rightfully) having opps or just streets being happy about the chaos that thread can bring

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

So proving they scale to physicals is nigh impossible. We’d need to rely more on NPES principles and standard scaling. Like if a character’s strike overpowers a Herrscher authority for example. Then that’d count.

I now see why Houkai Welts used to be a measuring system. Even on this wiki we’re measuring characters on how many Welt’s they’re worth.

What about Kiana struggling to carry an old dude when she's depowered (had the honkai energy removed from her system)? Doesn't that support Honkai Energy empowering physicals / scaling to them?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

What about Kiana struggling to carry an old dude when she's depowered (had the honkai energy removed from her system)? Doesn't that support Honkai Energy empowering physicals / scaling to them?

"If the power source or universal energy system should be removed from a user by some means that should result in a notable loss in physical strength or alternatively even in physical harm or death. That doesn't necessarily mean that they should be reduced to the level of regular humans, though. "

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

What about Kiana struggling to carry an old dude when she's depowered (had the honkai energy removed from her system)? Doesn't that support Honkai Energy empowering physicals / scaling to them?

We know Honkai energy boosts physicals. But the issue points out is that it needs to also be proven that the same amount of energy can go into a punch or strike than special powers.

Examples of Energy systems with reinforcement where it’s clear special moves are above physicals are cursed energy from JJK (where UES principles only apply to Ryu Ishigori) or Spirit Energy from kagurabachi.
Honkai energy might be in both those systems boats unless there’s some scene or dialogue showcasing that it’s the same energy quantity going in for everything. Not just same energy source.

In the old UES page clear depowering reducing physicals was enough, but it’s getting revamped to have higher standards for what constitutes UES. At best we’ll have to just see, at absolute worst Honkai would be more like NPES.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

All the boys when Blood Demon Art UES arrives

 

[PedjaTarzan]

We know Honkai energy boosts physicals. But the issue points out is that it needs to also be proven that the same amount of energy can go into a punch or strike than special powers.

Examples of Energy systems with reinforcement where it’s clear special moves are above physicals are cursed energy from JJK (where UES principles only apply to Ryu Ishigori) or Spirit Energy from kagurabachi.
Honkai energy might be in both those systems boats unless there’s some scene or dialogue showcasing that it’s the same energy quantity going in for everything. Not just same energy source.

In the old UES page clear depowering reducing physicals was enough, but it’s getting revamped to have higher standards for what constitutes UES. At best we’ll have to just see, at absolute worst Honkai would be more like NPES.

We have welt using SoE to boost his physicals against sirin given he could punch trough the barrier
Fu hua does the same in her phoenix form

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

We know Honkai energy boosts physicals. But the issue points out is that it needs to also be proven that the same amount of energy can go into a punch or strike than special powers.

Examples of Energy systems with reinforcement where it’s clear special moves are above physicals are cursed energy from JJK (where UES principles only apply to Ryu Ishigori) or Spirit Energy from kagurabachi.
Honkai energy might be in both those systems boats unless there’s some scene or dialogue showcasing that it’s the same energy quantity going in for everything. Not just same energy source.

I mean we've seen Garuda Hua nuke Sa with a punch. Hell, most of Hua's attacks are melee, but it doesn't really prove it's the exact same amount of energy going into an attack than it is... say another character's ranged or Hua's hax. It's a bit hyperspecific with 'the same energy quantity'.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I mean we've seen Garuda Hua nuke Sa with a punch. Hell, most of Hua's attacks are melee, but it doesn't really prove it's the exact same amount of energy going into an attack than it is... say another character's ranged or Hua's hax. It's a bit hyperspecific with 'the same energy quantity'.

Yeah I kinda feel energy quantity will make standards hilariously strict

In the thread they’re even saying power systems like Reiatsu from Bleach and Ki from Dragonball can lose UES status.
Does Honkai have scaling currently that relies on the fact it’s a UES? Cause for a verse like Dragonball it barely matters cause the tier 2 feats were achieved physically via Goku’s punches and not with kamehameha’s and the like.
Still this concern can become completely irrelevant via basic scaling like your Fu Hua vs Sa example. Cause it was mentioned in the thread it’s possible to have the advantages of a UES without actually being one. if the powerscaling lines up. No one actually believes Flamescion has attacks a oneshot tier above AHR Kevin’s durability

We have welt using SoE to boost his physicals against sirin given he could punch trough the barrier
Fu hua does the same in her phoenix form

I’m pretty sure under the new rules that’d be treated as an “up to” rating.
Since Welt said Star of Eden couldn’t breach the imaginary barrier, so Zeroth power wouldn’t work. But punching did. Rather than his punches are always stronger than Zeroth power

 

[Furina003]

So, what is the best tier for aeon now?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

So, what is the best tier for aeon now?

Streets saying they could go down as low as Low 2-C but idk how yet

 

[SuperNova55555]

Streets saying they could go down as low as Low 2-C but idk how yet

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Yeah I kinda feel energy quantity will make standards hilariously strict

Agreed. It'll probably be reverted or loosened at some point.

In the thread they’re even saying power systems like Reiatsu from Bleach and Ki from Dragonball can lose UES status.

Genuinely if DB is getting thrown out of UES (downright stupid) basically nobody will qualify. Hence why I believe the above.

Does Honkai have scaling currently that relies on the fact it’s a UES? Cause for a verse like Dragonball it barely matters cause the tier 2 feats were achieved physically via Goku’s punches and not with kamehameha’s and the like.

Don't think so. Everyone can easily scale off of bubbles and the like, + Kiana fighting the HoD (immeasurable LS) went pretty even physically, although she was using a sword... I don't think it really matters all too much.

Still this concern can become completely irrelevant via basic scaling like your Fu Hua vs Sa example. Cause it was mentioned in the thread it’s possible to have the advantages of a UES without actually being one. if the powerscaling lines up. No one actually believes Flamescion has attacks a oneshot tier above AHR Kevin’s durability

Then what's the point of reworking and making UES stricter? Massive waste of time.

The Honkai 'universe' is the imaginary tree, but we really need to start describing it like a multiverse icl, each world should have an unfathomable amount of parallel universes via basic extrapolation from Hi3. I don't see why it wouldn't apply to HSR, it IS the same imaginary tree and we have physically seen the parallel universes.

Genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Nous' instants were simply just paths every parallel universe goes through, like they're canon events or smth.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Don't think so. Everyone can easily scale off of bubbles and the like, + Kiana fighting the HoD (immeasurable LS) went pretty even physically, although she was using a sword... I don't think it really matters all too much.

Yeah the only notable ranged fighter who relies on energy blasts and haxes is Welt really, but that shouldn’t matter too much cause 2E 6 core Sirin was above SoE and Welt in every way + there’s too many characters in HI3 who can just bull rush through Welt’s entire arsenal.

Then what's the point of reworking and making UES stricter? Massive waste of time

It’s mostly to dunk on verses who have storm/creation feats or just affecting a dimension with a hax being used for AP, Dura and Lifting strength for everything that lack proof of stamina consumption being similar to generic attacks. Honkai has melee fighters and people surviving each others Herrscher powers or divine key attacks at least. Plus they actually blow things up like Ryusuke’s dimension thing rather than relying on creation feat lore.

 

[SuperNova55555]

The Honkai 'universe' is the imaginary tree, but we really need to start describing it like a multiverse icl, each world should have an unfathomable amount of parallel universes via basic extrapolation from Hi3. I don't see why it wouldn't apply to HSR, it IS the same imaginary tree and we have physically seen the parallel universes.

Genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Nous' instants were simply just paths every parallel universe goes through, like they're canon events or smth.

The issue I’m tryna portray here is that all the Aeonic feats are limited to Real Space. The scan itself even goes as far as to explicitly tell us that “universe” refers to the physical plane, in the context of at least Irontomb/Nous/Fuli.

As for your general take though; that’s js cuz Hoyo is contradictory. At least, Herta has to explicitly be incorrect about the universes’ functions since we are explicitly shown it to work differently.

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

The issue I’m tryna portray here is that all the Aeonic feats are limited to Real Space. The scan itself even goes as far as to explicitly tell us that “universe” refers to the physical plane, in the context of at least Irontomb/Nous/Fuli.

Yeah the universe generally refers to real space.

As for your general take though; that’s js cuz Hoyo is contradictory. At least, Herta has to explicitly be incorrect about the universes’ functions since we are explicitly shown it to work differently.

It wouldn't be the first time Hoyo has done this. They're 'contradictory' because they leave things out because the character logically wouldn't know or has different beliefs (so they can retcon it later when they need) which kinda sucks for us and accuracy's sake icl. As for how the tree ACTUALLY works, there's general pointers but a few contradictions between hi3 and hsr that need to be ironed out.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Yuri vs Yaoi

 

[Mbpoops]

Yuri vs Yaoi

Is naook destruction because we cucked him fron aha? GIVE ME STELLE IN THE CONDUCTOR UNIFORM

 

[Mbpoops]

As a go through and add these abilities… why are some if these even on the path abilities they are literally character specufic