[Invincible] The Infamous Sun Disk

[Saqphire]

So, two calcs have been accepted for the destruction of the Solar Disc feat in the new season of Invincible, and as such, this thread exists to determine which one should be used for an upcoming CRT about them / eventual indexing on the verse page

@FusionPrime0 's calculation:
501.75 Ronnatons (High 5-A)
My calculation:
23.50 Ronnatons (High 5-A)

 

[FusionPrime0]

So, two calcs have been accepted for the destruction of the Solar Disc feat in the new season of Invincible, and as such, this thread exists to determine which one should be used for an upcoming CRT about them / eventual indexing on the verse page

@FusionPrime0 's calculation:
501.75 Ronnatons (Low 4-C)
My calculation:
57.85 Yottatons (5-A)

My calculation is High 5-A, not Low 4-C

 

[Saqphire]

My calculation is High 5-A, not Low 4-C

Myf, too used to my own tiering lol

 

[Spinoirr]

Ah, the Sun Disk that I HATE

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Not The Sun Disk

 

[FusionPrime0]

Can someone ping some calc mods?

 

[Kaydee1648]

@Floxy178 @M3X_2.0 @SunDaGamer
can this get a look?

@Drite77 @Dark-Carioca
since you commented on both calcs

 

[M3X_2.0]

Both calcs are valid imo. It's just different approaches to the same feat. What are the arguments to choose one over the other?

 

[TiltedFN]

Both calcs are valid imo. It's just different approaches to the same feat. What are the arguments to choose one over the other?

I guess it would seem Saqphires calc makes more sense with the size of the sun I suppose, and it being more in line with Viltrumites strength being around those Planet level to Large Planet level tiers, which makes it pretty consistent with the feats they perform imo.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I guess it would seem Saqphires calc makes more sense with the size of the sun I suppose, and it being more in line with Viltrumites strength being around those Planet level to Large Planet level tiers, which makes it pretty consistent with the feats they perform imo.

The general consistency the calc may have is not an argument. And to be honest, I like the other calc’s pixelscaling more.

 

[Tahoy49574]

I guess it would seem Saqphires calc makes more sense with the size of the sun I suppose, and it being more in line with Viltrumites strength being around those Planet level to Large Planet level tiers, which makes it pretty consistent with the feats they perform imo.

There are no on-screen Tier 5 feats in the show yet to say "Consistency" though it's very clear Kirkman thinks of viltrumites as casual planet busters despite everything. There's only other one (Viltrumites blowing up Unopa) and people were unnecessarily pedantic with it

 

[TiltedFN]

The general consistency the calc may have is not an argument.

Yeah it crossed my mind that this is just a discussion to get the calc accepted so that's my bad. How would you treat the light getting to the planet near instantly when the Solar Disk was destroyed?

 

[Drite77]

Both calcs are valid imo. It's just different approaches to the same feat. What are the arguments to choose one over the other?

I think the main argument to use Saqphire's version is the light speed detail. On FusionPrime's version, the light would take 8 minutes to reach the planet, on Saqphire, it would take 10 seconds, and I think that's mainly it, unless there is something else I'm missing

 

[Saqphire]

I think the main argument to use Saqphire's version is the light speed detail. On FusionPrime's version, the light would take 8 minutes to reach the planet, on Saqphire, it would take 10 seconds, and I think that's mainly it, unless there is something else I'm missing

That, and reverse ang sizing the disk instead of assuming it's the same size cuz we see a corona around it from the Rognarr Planet, meaning it's a bit smaller despite being comparable.

 

[Floxy178]

I'm not sure if light travel timeframe stuff is enough tbh. I mean, sure realistically they can't even know anything until photons travel to planet from Sun, but that's ignored in fiction 99% of the time, here they're shown to immediately notice what happened (and telling from a glance, explosion seems FTL on-screen anyway).

 

[Saqphire]

I'm not sure if light travel timeframe stuff is enough tbh. I mean, sure realistically they can't even know anything until photons travel to planet from Sun, but that's ignored in fiction 99% of the time, here they're shown to immediately notice what happened (and telling from a glance, explosion seems FTL on-screen anyway).

The FTL explosion is whatever, but claiming that "fiction ignores the speed of light so natural sunlight reaching the planet would simply be FTL here" is absurd special pleading without any narrative backing imo. And we use realistic physics formulas to determine the values of a feat happening in a realistic-ish setting, so why should we ignore realistic phenomena that happen on screen here? Especially when it's not even our solar system, so it wouldn't really be a plot hole for light to travel in that short of a timeframe

I'd even go as far as to suggest that the visuals and the setting don't even support the fact that it would be a 1AU distance and a 1.4 million kilometre sun being shown there, that's all assumptions taken from our solar system. But again, this isn't our solar system

 

[Floxy178]

Because using realistic formulas to assign some value is one thing, expecting realism and restricting the feat is different. You'll almost never get some celestial body feat with characters only acknowledging it after photons travel to the planet at SOL.

If the series respect the universal speed limit of c however, that'd make more sense. But we literally see explosion and scattered light being FTL (most likely, I didn't calc it) and in the very next scene we see that light already reached the planet. They're shown to see the change immediately. So I don't really get use of 10 seconds, it's much shorter with cinematic timeframe, size and distance should be much less with your method (which would at least fix FTL parts).

 

[Saqphire]

Because using realistic formulas to assign some value is one thing, expecting realism and restricting the feat is different. You'll almost never get some celestial body feat with characters only acknowledging it after photons travel to the planet at SOL.

For feats with consequences similar to this, we should take that into account if it's not our solar system because those assumptions stemming from it don't necessarily need to be true for other solar systems. If those feats were in our solar system, you'd make a fair point.

If the series respect the universal speed limit of c however, that'd make more sense. But we literally see explosion and scattered light being FTL (most likely, I didn't calc it) and in the very next scene we see that light already reached the planet.

I feel like eventually claiming "the light is FTL" / "the light is relativistic" to make the assumptions work is a more extraordinary claim here, which is my problem with this line of reasoning overall because that's not backed in the narrative. Light in Invincible isn't actually meant to be MFTL++++ or any speed above or below c narratively unless there was evidence for that.

Just as how one can claim the light "went at FTL" from eyeballing it, one can also say the light actually did went at SOL, we just have cinematic timing inflating the results. Seems more parsimonious to me but idk

They're shown to see the change immediately. So I don't really get use of 10 seconds, it's much shorter with cinematic timeframe, size and distance should be much less with your method (which would at least fix FTL parts).

The 10 second timeframe is just what I estimated from how the feat was portrayed, giving it some benefit of the doubt as well to not break any thermodynamic relations that would come from a star and a planet being almost next to each other. However, I don't mind actually using the cinematic timeframe to get a different distance.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Prefacing it by saying that I don't know Incredible lore that much.
"Star Size: 2 * tan(70deg/2) * 2997924580 * (82/964) = 357120103.676m"
Your calculations would make that Star 4x smaller than Sun. Which would make it red dwarf, while visuals clearly show it as Yellow dwarf, like Sun.
Also, if distance from Planet to Star is 2997924580m, that Planet would enjoy double the temperatures of the Earth. And by double I mean 550K(not counting greenhouse effects and such). What it's temperature in the lore?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I'm not sure if light travel timeframe stuff is enough tbh. I mean, sure realistically they can't even know anything until photons travel to planet from Sun, but that's ignored in fiction 99% of the time, here they're shown to immediately notice what happened (and telling from a glance, explosion seems FTL on-screen anyway).

IIRC, this is actually a YouTube Video that involves time skip frames via editing and stuff so I not actually sure on the full thing with the time skip frame and all, but I think we need the full scene to ensure we didn’t actually overlook anything when it comes to feats like this.


As a friendly reminder, the video being used for the calculation for a feat involves a YouTube video where they can been edited and clip where they can cut off vital context and other things.

Other than that, I feel like this seems to being a unnecessary small nitpick when it comes to being a bit picky of speed of light timeframe.

Not that is necessarily a bad thing, but also means you need to question the assumptions and the base assumptions at that as that technically applies to both calculations I would think if you gonna question the light timeframe travel there

 

[Saqphire]

Prefacing it by saying that I don't know Incredible lore that much.
"Star Size: 2 * tan(70deg/2) * 2997924580 * (82/964) = 357120103.676m"
Your calculations would make that Star 4x smaller than Sun. Which would make it red dwarf, while visuals clearly show it as Yellow dwarf, like Sun.

Good point. I guess to fix that, I'd have to change the size of the star to probably the minimum G-Type star to exist, which would be 0.853 solar radii. Converting that to distance and timeframe for SOL, the distances would be 10228918667m and 34.12 seconds. Which kinda falls in line with my initial guess of 30 seconds anyway

Also, if distance from Planet to Star is 2997924580m, that Planet would enjoy double the temperatures of the Earth. And by double I mean 550K(not counting greenhouse effects and such). What it's temperature in the lore?

It's a frozen landscape caused by the disk covering the star, and when the disk is removed, it instantly enjoys warm, sunny weathers. So this is not that much of a reach here.

IIRC, this is actually a YouTube Video that involves time skip frames via editing and stuff so I not actually sure on the full thing with the time skip frame and all, but I think we need the full scene to ensure we didn’t actually overlook anything when it comes to feats like this.


As a friendly reminder, the video being used for the calculation for a feat involves a YouTube video where they can been edited and clip where they can cut off vital context and other things.

Well this is just not true, the full video which I split into two is here:

Other than that, I feel like this seems to being a unnecessary small nitpick when it comes to being a bit picky of speed of light timeframe.

Not that is necessarily a bad thing, but also means you need to question the assumptions and the base assumptions at that as that technically applies to both calculations I would think if you gonna question the light timeframe travel there

Well the simplest and most probable conclusion to light coming from a yellow dwarf type star that acts like a heat source for planets would go at lightspeed. Which is why I mentioned that claiming it to go at any other speed needs further evidence. It's not really a nitpick because lightspeed affects the size of the star and thus the size of the disk and thus the GBE of it as well since the disk is, for all intents and purposes, next to the star covering it lol

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Good point. I guess to fix that, I'd have to change the size of the star to probably the minimum G-Type star to exist, which would be 0.853 solar radii. Converting that to distance and timeframe for SOL, the distances would be 10228918667m and 34.12 seconds. Which kinda falls in line with my initial guess of 30 seconds anyway

It's a frozen landscape caused by the disk covering the star, and when the disk is removed, it instantly enjoys warm, sunny weathers. So this is not that much of a reach here.

Well this is just not true, the full video which I split into two is here:

Well the simplest and most probable conclusion to light coming from a yellow dwarf type star that acts like a heat source for planets would go at lightspeed. Which is why I mentioned that claiming it to go at any other speed needs further evidence. It's not really a nitpick because lightspeed affects the size of the star and thus the size of the disk and thus the GBE of it as well since the disk is, for all intents and purposes, next to the star covering it lol

Wasn’t referring to you specifically, I was referring to Floxy if my response to Floxy wasn’t a bit straightforward.

Also I was talking about the other calculation that has the scene in question, but on YouTube.

Either way, lightspeed doesn’t really affect the size of the Star since Stars are formed naturally over time with different characteristics and so on and so forth and they produce the light speed natural star light or sunlight.

 

[Saqphire]

Wasn’t referring to you specifically, I was referring to Floxy if my response to Floxy wasn’t a bit straightforward.

Also I was talking about the other calculation that has the scene in question, but on YouTube.

Oh okay my fault, it was a bit vague so.

Either way, lightspeed doesn’t really affect the size of the Star since Stars are formed naturally over time with different characteristics and so on and so forth and they produce the light speed natural star light or sunlight.

I am aware of that. It's the distance between the light and the star that affects the size in this specific scene and that distance comes directly from the speed and timeframe derived

 

[FusionPrime0]

That, and reverse ang sizing the disk instead of assuming it's the same size cuz we see a corona around it from the Rognarr Planet, meaning it's a bit smaller despite being comparable.

I didn't assume the disk to be the same size of the sun, I used pixelscaling to compare it to the star, making it around 90 thousand km smaller than the star in my calc.

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[Qurbonboev]

Good point. I guess to fix that, I'd have to change the size of the star to probably the minimum G-Type star to exist, which would be 0.853 solar radii.

Idk where did you find this particular value, but I think just using Sun size(average valur for G type) is good enough.

 

[ByArrow]

Idk where did you find this particular value, but I think just using Sun size(average valur for G type) is good enough.

From here (Spectral standard stars, G9V

 

[Qurbonboev]

From here (Spectral standard stars, G9V

Thanks.
Still think that Sun size should be used

 

[Saqphire]

I didn't assume the disk to be the same size of the sun, I used pixelscaling to compare it to the star, making it around 90 thousand km smaller than the star in my calc.

Yeah I still think perspective would go against pixel scaling both as that assumes they're in the same plane of depth to be comparable (which they aren't, because we know Viltrumites are weak to heat)

Thanks.
Still think that Sun size should be used

Why? All G-Type stars can bring life to planets and this isn't our solar system so why assume anything higher than the lowest possible one? The smallest star also falls in line with the lightspeed objection that I still have

 

[Qurbonboev]

Why? All G-Type stars can bring life to planets and this isn't our solar system so why assume anything higher than the lowest possible one? The smallest star also falls in line with the lightspeed objection that I still have

Cus average yellow dwarf is Sun sized.
It's your calc, do what you want to do. Just update the calc

 

[Saqphire]

Cus average yellow dwarf is Sun sized.
It's your calc, do what you want to do. Just update the calc

It's done

 

[AthelChan]

Bardock should've won that

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[FusionPrime0]

bump

 

[Arceus0x]

I found this feat suspicious in the series, I mean, they managed to cover a decent region in darkness with just a space ship that wasn't even that big.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

I found this feat suspicious in the series, I mean, they managed to cover a decent region in darkness with just a space ship that wasn't even that big.

You understand that they only cover the part Nolan and Allan were, right?
The ship is literally show to be in the planet's atmosphere even, so it blocking the sunlight isn't the anti feat that you believe it's, specially when the original Solar Disk was not only blocking sunlight to that planet but to 2 other more that we literally can see are at different sectors of that solar system.
And then they say in that same episode that they're going to built a new Solar Disk to properly freeze the planet again, which obviously implies that a ship isn't enough at all to replace the Solar Disk.

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[Theglassman12]

Has anyone done any calcs for Nolan pushing that one planet close to the sun to evaporate all water on the surface? If the random guesstimate calc I had is in anyway accurate then it would make the calc for the Sun Disk consistent in the verse.