AthelChan
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last time i checked, Marvel's Magic is only for high tier characters or characters who narratively had been adept or gifted with magic. Even then they draw the power differently.
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How emanators fooled the internet (hsr emanator downgrade) (mods needed)
- Thread starter Mbpoops
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what makes u remotely think that they get boundless source of power, fun fact shin newest theead gives them 1-A smurf specifically
not tier 0, ONE A
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regardless, you didn't answer how them drawing from the paths is different than the aeons providing said power
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We’re told in game when characters receive or own things from Aeons. Lan’s Spiritus, Nous third eye etc. Normal pathstriders don’t have these.
Not all Emanators even pay attention to humans like say IX.
Mbpoops
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because they dont provide the full power of the path? the scan says that aeons grant their emanators power and that power varies meaning they cant draw the full power of the path like aeons can. also drawing from the aeon makes no sense with the current justification why would aeons grant their power to mortals knowing those mortals are actively trying to kill them?
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if pathstriders can naturally draw an unspecified amount of power by simply aligning with said path, why wouldn't emanators be able to do so as well? also, aeons dont give a **** about mortals. they cant do shit to them. xipe is still allowing sunday to use harmony's power despite him having tried to kill them. ena too whose "body" and power was usurped. all lord ravagers are also possibly dual emanators despite their goals being to kill their former aeons worshipped.
keep in mind that there's ways to force path power, which is just imaginary energy, to be drawn even through technological means.
also, if an aeon can rise from mortality through sheer alignment and belief with a path, vacant or non-existant yet even, that means that just about everyone should have the ability to do it aka everyone can draw power from paths.
theres also the heirs that in the irontomb fight were able to collectively use the "real" active paths simulated for them despite not having been ever connected to them or even felt their presence inside the simulation. they just grabbed the power. just like that.
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,437
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no one is saying they cant?? ive even said they can draw more than pathstriders just not the full power of the path
phainon. acheron.
sunday never tried to kill xipe? when did sunday say he was going to kill xipe what
what is this supposed to add
yea and none of them have killed an aeon despite being an emanator. maybe its because the power they can draw is determained by their aeon.
so they're using outside sources to draw more power instead of just drawing it themselves?
no one is saying mortals cant become aeons tho? we saw it with sunday when he was about to ascend to aeonhood. when an aeon ascends they open a NEW path and embody that path to the fullest, with pathstriders drawing limited amounts from that path. riddle me this, if everyone has full access to 100% path energy why even label emanators? everyone can draw the same amount of energy right? if thats the case theres no point in emanators, pathstriders, hell the only reasons aeons would exist is to open new paths mortals should be able to just kill an aeon whenever if they have full path power. the issue is that they dont and aeons purposefully limit their power. you havent even shown any scans of any characters having full access to their path's power.
this is a nothing burger. anyone can become a pathstrider hell their paths are coded into their dna. its stated in 3.7 that amphorous became apart of the real cosmos even the time was moving at the same speed as the real universe so it would make sense that the people of amphorous could use paths of the real universe so its not crazy to say the heirs just gained the ability to use real paths
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he literally tried to usurp and overthrow harmony with order. what do you think would've happened to xipe? either assimilated or declared war upon.
idk sacrilege?
okay so why wouldnt their aeons just take the power back and unbless them? lol. why does zephyro still have his white holes and his connection to other self annihilators and nihility? why didnt yaoshi smite phantylia when she ****** with her arbor?
yes?
they dont necessarily need to create a new path to ascend. cyrene already proved that. she was 1 decision away from becoming fuli and remembrance already existed. mortals can walk towards any path. their progress varies. and this is where their power comes from.
Cyrene: Perhaps we, too, have already left long trails on our respective paths.
Cyrene: (Trailblazer), we've come such a long, long way together on the path of Remembrance.
Herta: It is your "memory." Your mind now stretches across the stars, allowing you to travel farther down this Path than anyone else.
(seperate convos)
Cyrene is everything remembrance stands for. she was on the "edge" of remembrance traveling down so far into it that it was possible for her to become an aeon. and since we know that you are not required to be an emanator to ascend, that means that just about anyone can do it. another example: acheron CAN draw tons of more power from the path of nihility and become stronger. nobody is stopping her. but that means she would succumb to it entirely. that's the same thing. also, clearly not everyone has the inner strength, fortitude, mentality or whateverthefuck is required to go down a path. same question can asked about any verse that has magic or the supernatural. why doesn't anyone just learn it? same reasons people irl fail to do other things they are capable of but just dont. (i also remember that dan heng said something similar about progressing towards the path of permanence which is what let him better control his cloudhymn powers. i could be wrong on this one and too bored rn to look for it)
that just proves my point. belief and alignment = ability to draw power from a path. it wasn't path or imaginary energy that was simulated or coded into them. it was characteristics that paths are defined by thus making the heirs the most perfect conduits able to instantly align with their supposed paths AND COREFLAMES. which is why they were the perfect candidates. keep in mind that in the end of ampho, the heirs are an amalgamation of all their previous incarnations with their complete memories (unfortunately it wasnt expanded on enough so theres not enough evidence to seperate that from their "regular" selves. waiting for ampho 2.0 for that.)
i genuinely do not understand how this thread is still standing after all this. let it go.
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Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,437
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- #332
well ENA never died when he was "assimilated" by xipe. when the harmony opened it just overlapped the order but the order still existed and so did ENA.
i mean it happened to sunday or should we still consider him an emanator
unironically IX doesnt monitor their emanators. hes such a bum he literally doesnt even regulate how much power they can use which is why nihility emanators are so feared. hell the reason why zephyro is the most feared lord ravenger is because nanook glazes him with white holes and hes a supposed self annihilator
did phantylia ever threaten yaoshi directly?
so you're admitting they dont have full access to the power and that they need outside sources to draw more power from the source
1. cyrene is the WORST example you could give. for starters Fuli doesnt exist until the end of the universe so they have one of the pure children of anasrava ascend into themselves and revive the universe through memories so cyrene is REQUIRED to ascend into Fuli as it is literally her only purpose in the story because Fuli doesnt exist.
2. Acheron. like i mentioned before, IX does not monitor their emanators because he is in lore a ******* bum he doesnt care about anything because he is the embodyment of nihility. the only thing stopping acheron from drawing all of IX's power is the fact she loses her existence if she draws too much power.
3. about the magic stuff. in comparrison to HSR not every being is a pathstrider even pathstriders stand out from regular people so why doesnt everyone just become a pathstrider? according to what you're saying pathstriders basically have infinite power they can draw from their path so everyone should just become a pathstrider and be a god and since we're mentioning other systems again please show me one other UES that defaults all their users to the level of the UES. not even honkai does this you can see with the Cocolia, Bronya, and seele page that the verse does NOT accept UES defaulting to low 1-C or whatever the **** the UES scales to. this is not a thing in any other verse like genshin, star wars, fate, dragon ball, naruto, ETC so the fact we're saying that UES should default to a certain level is just wrong.
no one is saying they cant draw power from a path bruh
bro they were literally simulated, or "coded" specific paths
cool? what does this add
because we need 2 mod agrees or 3 disagrees
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what do u think assimilation entails?? they, as an aeon, were gone. the path stood still though. and followers of the order could still tap into its power.
it didnt happen to him. he can still use both order and harmony.
well the others remain still though. even phainon who actually managed to reach nanook.
no i am admitting that path power cannot be blocked and is free to be used by anyone and anything. even a moving ******* rock like the acceleration band is able to draw preservation's power because why not. imaginary energy is not restrained. it runs through everything.
none of this is invalidates my point. she still progressed towards the end of the path and would become one with it. she straight up says so. and she's not the only pure child "The only common thread between these women was that they all walked the Path of Remembrance." it's a prophecy that needs to be fulfilled. so they do need to walk the path to its end anyway. its why cyrene had the choice to become god or walk away for now.
i literally just explained it to you. different pathstriders reach different depths of their path. not everyone is capable of this.
"Himeko: A person is considered to be on a Path when their will overlaps with that Path. If the person has a strong enough will, they can draw power from that Path. Those who can do so are called Pathstriders."
literally yes. theoretically everyone could become a pathstrider.
i am not arguing ues. that wasnt even the original point of the thread.
id rather u showed scans or in-game stuff. not wiki. coreflames= "shadow" of paths. premium mobiles = characteristics of paths. characteristics of paths = ultimate alignment with paths. as demonstrated:
"behavior of achieving species continuation simulates the Path of Permanence."
"behavioral patterns similar to the Harmony through mutual understanding, support, and coordination for a common purpose"
"Its behavioral pattern aligns with the establishment, expansion, destabilization, and collapse of principles of Order"
"Its behavior also demonstrated the possible self-destructive inclinations of Erudition when that Path is seeking answers."
clearly, its all about behavior and characteristics that are attributed to real life paths. its not actual paths being simulated inside the simulation.
what if you concede?
Mbpoops
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- #334
ive asked supporters if ENA died they said he didnt because his path was active. now im hearing he died and his path can exist without him (which is what i believed before but i cant get a clear answer when dealing with this verse)
but hes not an emanator anymore unless you wanna say sunday is an emanator still
phainon reached him through stolen power. honestly the fact phainon reached the supposed real nanook should be talked abt more as an anti feat for aeons because what do you mean a random ass not even real pathstrider did a feat no one else has done in the verse??
no one is saying path power cant be accessed though??? its just the LEVEL at which the beings of the verse can draw from this power which BLATANTLY varies.
tbf PCoA are special cases for the path of rememberance. it would be better to use an example like 3.8 sunday when he became ENA but even then this doesnt mean that all pathstriders have access to 100% path energy its only when they become aeons. sunday was untoucheable when he became ENA but when we knocked him out of his aeonhood we defeated him rather quickly (gameplay terms ig cause we technically never "saw" the fight) if he had 100% path energy has a pathstrider he wouldve still been unstoppable
and this still doesnt say they have access to the entirety of the path just that they can draw energy from it.
were you not talking about pathstriders and emanators having 100% path energy? how is that not UES? if not my bad ive just had to explain ues to 2 people for like 3 weeks now so its prolly engrained in my brain atp
you havent shown any ingame scans either? you're just typing. also the part with the simulations i dont think is accessable in the sequence review but i am looking for it. i dont see why the wiki is unreliable though
i never said the actual paths were being simulated inside the simulation? i probably couldve worded it better but the way the characters are coded are meant to represent certain paths in the real world so its not surprising they could access the paths when amphorous became real
i wont
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well idk what they are saying but we dont know what assimilation entails. all we know is that ena as an entity was "Gone" and sunday wanted to restore them. thing is they were still kind of alive as shown in the fight. but aeons dont need to be active or alive for a path to be online.
sure but xipe could've stopped him if they wanted to. especially when he stole dominicus from them.
now you are just jumping through hoops. seriously. because it also doesn't say there's limits. so why would you assume there are? especially since we know pathstriders can only get stronger and stronger and even reach aeonhood?
okay. what i am saying is. similarly to dnd, the weave is available for everyone to its full extent IF they study and work hard and spend time working with it and w/e.. same w paths. they could in theory be used by anyone at any capacity. doesn't mean everyone actually does or has the power of will to reach to the ends of that path. in theory, emanators who have also been directly blessed by an aeon should have a minimum "threshold" reached that would automatically put them beyond non-emanator-regular-pathstriders. that threshold should be similar across most of them.
???
"Electrical signals created from the basis of the twelve factors. The Titans and the Chrysos Heirs are conjugate constructs mirroring the Aeons and the Pathstriders. By having Chrysos Heirs inheriting the Titans' Coreflames, the electrical signals will iterate and improve through rivalry and inheritance.
[Logic: Authority distribution between electrical signals must be clearly defined, serving as "divine authority" in the experiment.]
[Record Update: Destructive actions carried out by a specific electrical signal via the power of the Path of Destruction will result in a logical loophole in the corresponding path."
"Twelve Factors
Core variables of the experiment. Twelve simplified models of life's Primum Mobile.Based on the overarching theme of "entropy reduction," δ-me13 employed a process of elimination, introducing the twelve factors into the experiment one by one in an effort to falsify them."
i also feel like a lot of this stuff can be deduced with some sense too.
the wiki is unreliable when it comes to descriptions. not transcriptions of in-game words. what u linked me to was not the latter.
okay thats literally what i been saying. and now we go back to everyone being able to use a path's power as long as their characteristics are aligned with it. its just a matter of will on each person progressing towards it to unlock its power furthermore.
girl i think you should cuz wth...
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i will iterate one last time before heading off for the mods..
The paths function like a system of access rather than a fixed power cap especially since they are infinite in capacity similar to how the weave works in D&D. meaning the system is fully available to anyone. so what matters and how u reach higher "levels" depends on:
- how much someone studies it
- how much effort they invest
- how far they push their connection to it
- how strong their willpower is
- how strong their characteristics are
- how strong their belief is
- etc etc etc
(ofc the weave is limited rn but in actuality it isnt)
some pathstriders being limited doesn’t prove the paths are limited or their potential is. it just shows most individuals don’t reach high levels. thats a user limitation, not a system limitation.
So theoretically, any Path could be developed to very high levels by anyone not because everyone will, but because the system itself doesn’t impose a ceiling...
Then we move to emanators. emanators are not just regular Pathstriders. they are blessed by aeons aka:
- they start from a higher baseline (a minimum threshold)
- this baseline should logically place them above regular Pathstriders by default
i guess this could be clearer but if you want to understand, you will.
goodnight.
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Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,437
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- #338
I think you are misunderstanding the thread.
The point isnt to “cap” these emanators at a specific power but differentiate them based on their own feats/statements and scaling. Currently all the profiles are tiered at low 1-C despite 90% of the characters not having any fests applicable to low 1-C but because of the chainscale everyone scales to complete irontomb including aventurine whos 1/10th of an emanators power. My intention wasnt to cap the emanators because emanators can get stronger and we even see that with characters like march or sunday but to fix the current scaling within the verse which stems from having this chainscale. As for the “baseline” of emanators they shouldnt have a baseline for scaleable ap since they very blatantly vary in power but rather a baseline in hax and potency, which we are going to work on but we’re waiting on a crt to conclude to finish the path pages. The reasoning for most of the downgrades is pretty simple though, they just dont have the feats for low 1-C and the only reason they even scale here is because of this awful chainscale. This thread was not to nuke paths im honestly not sure how we even got heres thats more of a UES issue imo. Not all pathstriders and emanators have access to 100% path energy though thats exclusive to aeons however yes if a pathstrider follows a path to its fullest they can become an aeon and embody the path
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i agree that they shouldnt chainscale to irontomb or cyrene. they are outliers. profile's like aventurine's, jl's and stellaron hunters' prob need adjustments i agree. but other emanator profiles like herta, phantylia, evernight, cyrene, incomplete irontomb should stay as is.
anyway lets just wait for the verdict.
disagree still on that and your entire reasoning is hanging onto a single line since launch that has been proven time again to not be applicable. "blatantly" is unserious when all the scans u showed for this were disproven because the fights u presented as evidence lacked context. same for other scans and reasonings really.
anyway lets just wait for the verdict.
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,437
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They shouldnt stay as is because theres no low 1-C feats applicable to them and if the chainscale stays ur basically agreeing that they all lose to trailblazer and hysilens cause they extreme diffed lygus
Well its not a single line and it hasnt been disproven since we know herta, phantylia, evernight, lygus, etc arent boxing incomplete irontomb without help. Unless you’re saying TB and hysilens > all emanators
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u can chainscale them off of phainon's feat harming nanook.
everything has been quite literally disproven because as said multiple times before, incomplete irontomb is far beyond a regular emanator anyway
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Phainon feat is glazed by 3 emanators mind you
said emanators include the same guy who neg diffed him.
On top of that this is genuenly the feat that is explicitly shown to be above everything we have seen in game bar complete irontomb and fulirene who are >>> emanators
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i mean AP wise its
TTGL Phainon>Irontomb>Welt+Zephyro>4th finality
DC wise its Irontomb>Welt+Zephyro>Phainon
Mbpoops
He/Him- 8,437
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- #349
basically for the OP
Currently, we have it accepted that all emanators in honkai star rail chainscale to eachother because of the statement “to defeat an emanator you need the same strength as one”. Not only is this statement just not enough to justify all emanators being the same power level we have statementd and showings ingame that not all emanators are the same strength as shown in the op (ill reply to those in a later message because mobile might delete this) this chainscale is one of the main reasons everyone in hsr scales to low 1-C rn so removing it would fix a lot of the scaling
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I mean this pretty much at best just says any Emanator is above any Pathstrider, not that any Emanator is equal to any other.
It’s also a very general one at that, since “defeat” can have a variety of meanings or ways to achieve in that matter.
Plus obviously what has been discussed in this thread about how inconsistent them being equal is
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How so?
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From what I can recall, they pretty much chainscaled everyone who had sum like “High-level Honkai” to each other without any feats to actually scale them.
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Do you really wanna know…
“High level Honkai energy defaults to low 1-C”
Is this a quantity of Honkai or a type/quality of Honkai?
If it's the latter then feel like I should make it clear that a Universal Energy System is only grounds for scaling non-material feats to physical attributes and vice versa.
It has not nor will it ever allowed for scaling to a tier based on just having that energy inherently and we don't do that for any other verse.
Mbpoops
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Honkai is fundementally the same its just the level at which the characters can manipulate it that differs and “High level” is literally the second of 4 tiers for honkai energy manipulation so… yea.. honkai energy or any ues shouldnt default you to a certain tier because another character did a feat at most, imo, it grants range like low 1-C extra/inner dimensional
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If this is the case then any scaling based on this is completely erroneous.
For now, I agree with the downgrades.
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