Kashimo VS Toji (4-4-0)

[Mommyleona]

then what are the votes for Toji

I've already debunked the arguments for Toji. I don't see why grace would start if the Toji supporters haven't even gotten a chance to respond

what did you debunk exactly? Toji just uses SSK and one shots Kashimo, who is a CQC fighter. Unlike Kashimo, Toji does not need to charge up his one shot move, he just cuts Kashimo into pieces, and no, Kashimo's staff does not help, since SSK dura negs objects too

 

[Mommyleona]

(the JJK Anime clearly shows Maki clashing swords with Nobuaki and he could still block and parry her sword hits, SSK doesn't just slice through all matter like butter)

This Maki did not have soul perception lol

 

[Keshirou]

Kashimo SLAMS

 

[Mommyleona]

Actually reading through the arguments for Kashimo, they are all either faulty or completely ignore everything Toji can do
Precog, stealth, knowledge on Kashimo's feats, which Toji will definitely abuse and would rather sneak Kashimo using fly heads, while Kashimo is literally a definition of "but that's how losers think" and would never do allat, not to mention air slashes Toji can do to hit from an even bigger range, or the chain which gives him even MORE range, all in all Kashimo gets completely countered

 

[Mickey1940]

what did you debunk exactly? Toji just uses SSK and one shots Kashimo, who is a CQC fighter.

SSK doesn't dura neg objects. Maki was clashing swords with multiple members of the Hiei (they didn't last long but the fact that it didn't just pass through them like butter goes to show that it doesn't work that way). Heck Sukuna blocks the blade with just his arm somehow. Kashimo's staff should work pretty ok here for blocking glancing blows

Unlike Kashimo, Toji does not need to charge up his one shot move, he just cuts Kashimo into pieces, and no, Kashimo's staff does not help, since SSK dura negs objects too

Kashimo explodes Panda's entire body mid transformation. This isn't a charged attack unless he already used it once, and despite Toji's lack of cursed energy, the lightning charge doesn't care about cursed energy but instead with physics (or whatever passes for physics in the world of JJK), meaning it's a sure hit that Toji can't dodge even if he is faster, which he isn't.

Precog, stealth

Teen Gojo was able to sense the Inventory Curse in order to keep up, with him only losing the advantage due to lack of raw speed and stats. Kashimo is far faster and stronger than Teen Gojo here, and despite not having the Six Eyes should be able to keep up with him even if he employs Flyheads, all of which can just be zapped upon contact

not to mention air slashes Toji can do to hit from an even bigger range

Toji doesn't generate air slashes

or the chain which gives him even MORE range

pretty sure using a metal chain to catch someone who constantly emits electricity is a bad idea and is just gonna get you zapped. A magic metal chain that extends infinitely is, at the end of the day, still a metal chain

all in all Kashimo gets completely countered

except considering he knows Toji's feats and likely knows what SSK does, there's no reason why Kashimo won't just zap him on the spot. His "that's how losers think" mindset comes from the fact that he thought he had a method around Hakari's automatic cursed technique, which is targeting his head, which is the part of your body that directs reversed cursed technique. He just didn't predict that Hakari would heal his head faster than Hakari could damage it. Basically, Kashimo was confident because he had something in his arsenal that could deal with the situation at hand, which he used. In this fight, Kashimo's only option against SSK is just zapping him before he gets close, so if his mindset is "I don't care how OP you are cuz I have an option against it", he's just going to use said option against it and there's nothing Toji can do about it since he's not fast enough to dodge lightning and even if he was he can't dodge it anyways cuz homing attack

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

SSK doesn't dura neg objects. Maki was clashing swords with multiple members of the Hiei (they didn't last long but the fact that it didn't just pass through them like butter goes to show that it doesn't work that way). Heck Sukuna blocks the blade with just his arm somehow.

it does negate objects, only reason hei can clash with ssk is cuz she didn't have the soul perception yet (something she got from her sumo training), Sukuna uses shrine to not touch swords

 

[Arkenis]

SSK doesn't dura neg objects. Maki was clashing swords with multiple members of the Hiei (they didn't last long but the fact that it didn't just pass through them like butter goes to show that it doesn't work that way). Heck Sukuna blocks the blade with just his arm somehow. Kashimo's staff should work pretty ok here for blocking glancing blows

I find myself at a loss man. Either you suffer from memory loss (most JJK fans do) or you only watch the anime and it poorly portrayed the scene. And mind you, this same panel explains why Maki wasn't cutting through them like butter... yet she literally was doing that.

And Sukuna blocking the sword is also very clearly given a good explanation just a couple chapters earlier.

 

[Mommyleona]

SSK doesn't dura neg objects.

Yes it does

Maki was clashing swords with multiple members of the Hiei (they didn't last long but the fact that it didn't just pass through them like butter goes to show that it doesn't work that way)

That was before Maki's second awakening lol, i alr said that, so this point is irrelevant

Heck Sukuna blocks the blade with just his arm somehow. Kashimo's staff should work pretty ok here for blocking glancing blows

The first claim and this one had already been proven wrong for me by Anon and Arkenis

Kashimo explodes Panda's entire body mid transformation.

Because they had a whole ass fight prior to that where Kashimo charged up the lightning???
What are we doing??
In the exact same panel it happens we get an explanation how Kashimo needs to punch you multiple times to actually get a lightning off, since he needs to transfer the charges into his opponent
2/2 claims that are simply wrong

Teen Gojo was able to sense the Inventory Curse in order to keep up

Yeah because he has the six eyes, Kashimo does not have the six eyes, not to mention that it didnt help Gojo much

Kashimo is far faster and stronger than Teen Gojo here, and despite not having the Six Eyes should be able to keep up with him even if he employs Flyheads, all of which can just be zapped upon contact

Kashimo has no good option to get rid of the fly heads whatsoever, him trying to punch them away or smth will just give Toji an opening
Reminder that Toji can also use a regular katana and remove the worm to be completely un-trackable (tho he wont need to as Kashimo lacks the six eyes, and lacks options to aoe clear up the field). And Toji is the type of person to abuse every single dirty advantage he has in order to kill

Toji doesn't generate air slashes

Yea he can, same way Daido and Maki can

pretty sure using a metal chain to catch someone who constantly emits electricity is a bad idea and is just gonna get you zapped

Doesnt quite work like that, and the chain will have a blade tied to it to strike Kashimo

except considering he knows Toji's feats and likely knows what SSK does, there's no reason why Kashimo won't just zap him on the spot

1. He can't just "zap him on the spot", already addressed above, he needs to transfer the charge via hand to hand combat first, which Toji will never engage in because why would he lol, Toji is extremely careful and has multiple ranged options
2. "There's no reason..."

His "that's how losers think" mindset comes from the fact that he thought he had a method around Hakari's automatic cursed technique, which is targeting his head, which is the part of your body that directs reversed cursed technique

No, it just means Kashimo is unlikely to back down and try to use underhanded tactics to win, while Toji would exactly be what Kashimo considers a "loser", Toji would not go into cqc knowing Kashimo's feats, Kashimo however has no other good option but to try and rush Toji, and his mindset would only support such a decision anyway

Basically, Kashimo was confident because he had something in his arsenal that could deal with the situation at hand, which he used.

Kashimo decided that he can win against JP Hakari instead of just running around for 4 minutes and 11 seconds to exhaust Hakari's jackpot

In this fight, Kashimo's only option against SSK is just zapping him before he gets close

Kashimo quite literally cannot do that
He cant just pop a lightning at will
Not like Toji will come in close like that anyway

so if his mindset is "I don't care how OP you are cuz I have an option against it", he's just going to use said option against it and there's nothing Toji can do about it since he's not fast enough to dodge lightning and even if he was he can't dodge it anyways cuz homing attack

Neither thing said here is true, lightning and homing both need charging and transfer of a positive charge into an opponent
Toji just needs to swings SSK with an air slash to cut down Kashimo and that's it

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I find myself at a loss man. Either you suffer from memory loss (most JJK fans do) or you only watch the anime and it poorly portrayed the scene. And mind you, this same panel explains why Maki wasn't cutting through them like butter... yet she literally was doing that.

And Sukuna blocking the sword is also very clearly given a good explanation just a couple chapters earlier.

The guy who said what you said but louder

 

[Saqphire]

Who the f*ck said the SSK doesn't dura neg objects?

Like I think Kashimo wins this but cmon now

 

[Mickey1940]

Yes it does

That was before Maki's second awakening lol, i alr said that, so this point is irrelevant

fair enough, the reason why I said this is cuz in the anime, she clashed with Nobuaki several times and she didn't shatter his sword or pass through it at any point, but that was pre-awakening so ig that's fair

Because they had a whole ass fight prior to that where Kashimo charged up the lightning???
What are we doing??
In the exact same panel it happens we get an explanation how Kashimo needs to punch you multiple times to actually get a lightning off, since he needs to transfer the charges into his opponent
2/2 claims that are simply wrong

also fair enough, but I don't think he needs to punch multiple times to transfer a positive charge since the transfer should work on contact. No need to be rude about it

Yeah because he has the six eyes, Kashimo does not have the six eyes, not to mention that it didnt help Gojo much

Kashimo has no good option to get rid of the fly heads whatsoever, him trying to punch them away or smth will just give Toji an opening
Reminder that Toji can also use a regular katana and remove the worm to be completely un-trackable (tho he wont need to as Kashimo lacks the six eyes, and lacks options to aoe clear up the field). And Toji is the type of person to abuse every single dirty advantage he has in order to kill

Gojo was overwhelmed by this because of his sheer lack of stats, especially speed. Kashimo not having the Six Eyes is bad for him but sheer speed and agility should help him a lot. Gojo at this point in the story is a very immobile fighter that relies on facetanking with Infinity. Kashimo in this case can probably just run out of the swarm. Flyheads are significantly weaker and slower than most of the high tier characters, so even if Kashimo doesn't destroy them all at once he should be able to escape pretty easily
As for the "Toji hiding his worm" thing, he's... never done this? I rewatched his fights with Gojo and Geto, and he had his worm out the whole time. He probably COULD do this but this doesn't seem in character. He didn't even use this against Gojo who has heightened awareness so why would he use that here

Yea he can, same way Daido and Maki can

fair enough, this should be added to Toji's profile. But do the air slashes have the same property of ignoring durability as the blade itself?

i mean it's air, not the material used in the SSK. Is there a distinction?

1. He can't just "zap him on the spot", already addressed above, he needs to transfer the charge via hand to hand combat first, which Toji will never engage in because why would he lol, Toji is extremely careful and has multiple ranged options
2. "There's no reason..."

No, it just means Kashimo is unlikely to back down and try to use underhanded tactics to win, while Toji would exactly be what Kashimo considers a "loser", Toji would not go into cqc knowing Kashimo's feats, Kashimo however has no other good option but to try and rush Toji, and his mindset would only support such a decision anyway

1. fair enough but besides potentially duranegging air slashes he doesn't have much else. Bullets are dodgeable and the chain would backfire if Kashimo grabs it at any point due to electricity passing through the metal, although the air slashes are a big problem if they are indeed duranegging
2. Kashimo doesn't have underhanded tactics, he just makes the more prideful decision amongst the choices that he thinks are guaranteed to work. Kashimo had the choice of either stalling out Jackpot or blasting Hakari in the head, and he chose the latter cuz it's cooler and STILL had a very good chance to work, only failing cuz Hakari's regeneration was fast enough to stop it, which Kashimo didn't know. Kashimo doesn't have this kinda choice here, especially since he knows Toji's feats, likely knows his tactics, and knows what all of his weapons do. Yeah his mindset would make him rush Toji but like you said, that's the only thing he CAN do so his mindset doesn't really help or hurt him here, it's just what he's gonna do

Kashimo quite literally cannot do that
He cant just pop a lightning at will
Not like Toji will come in close like that anyway

Neither thing said here is true, lightning and homing both need charging and transfer of a positive charge into an opponent
Toji just needs to swings SSK with an air slash to cut down Kashimo and that's it

fair enough


That definitely puts a dent in my vote. Although Kashimo should be a bit stronger and faster since Kashimo > Culling Games Jackpot Hakari > Culling Games Yuta < Shinjuku Yuta = Shinjuku Maki > Post Naoya Fight Maki = Toji (if I'm wrong about the scaling chain lmk, but that's what the profiles lead me to believe), being forced into melee isn't a good thing against someone who is comparable in speed, has good precog, generally longer reach with SSK and chain, and will camp him in character

However, Toji needs to kill Kashimo right away instead of like cutting off an arm or stabbing him in the chest or something, cuz all of those moves aren't putting Kashimo down since pain resistance is a thing (Kashimo should be better and more experienced at direct combat and receiving damage/feeling pain than a 3 days no sleep Teen Gojo, who's entire fighting style is camping with Infinity yet Gojo could take a stab no problem and learn RCT on his deathbed). If Kashimo hits Toji even once then the positive charges should be in Toji's system meaning Kashimo could once shot him there. Not to mention, Kashimo is a very good fighter himself, so Toji just 1 shotting him with SSK isn't likely since Kashimo's skilled enough to dodge and keep up. SSK ignoring durability doesn't really change much since a person being hit by any sword is going to get hurt, durability negation or not. Even a regular katana would kill Kashimo if they go for fatal blows so he's likely going to try and dodge them anyways, especially if he knows SSK ignores his staff's durability and therefore he can't block

...however if Kashimo needs MULTIPLE hits to properly use lightning discharge then he'd just be screwed since the probability of Kashimo landing said hits before Toji either camps him or goes for the head with SSK plummets down the toilet

TLDR:

If Kashimo only needs 1 hit to lightning discharge, he likely still wins. Kashimo's skill might allow him to avoid fatal blows long enough to land a single hit, especially with his possible stats advantage.

If Kashimo needs several hits to properly lightning discharge, he loses by being camped out

If SSK's air slashes also ignore durability, then he also loses by being camped out

overall I'm switching my vote to Toji. Regardless of whether or not my assumptions are correct, it's either gonna be a super high diff win for Kashimo or a mid diff for Toji. meaning Toji still wins more often than not

 

[Mommyleona]

Gojo was overwhelmed by this because of his sheer lack of stats, especially speed. Kashimo not having the Six Eyes is bad for him but sheer speed and agility should help him a lot

Sure it can help him mitigate the lack of six eyes, but it still doesnt help against anything else, as Toji was limited in his options against Gojo due to infinity, which isnt the same for Kashimo

Gojo at this point in the story is a very immobile fighter that relies on facetanking with Infinity. Kashimo in this case can probably just run out of the swarm. Flyheads are significantly weaker and slower than most of the high tier characters, so even if Kashimo doesn't destroy them all at once he should be able to escape pretty easily

They are but a distraction for a 1 good hit, SSK slashes, Isoh on a chain when Kashimo is surrounded by flyheads etc

As for the "Toji hiding his worm" thing, he's... never done this? I rewatched his fights with Gojo and Geto, and he had his worm out the whole time

He did that against both Gojo and Geto lol

This certainly will work, again Toji is extremely careful, he did the whole scheme against Gojo SIMPLY because Gojo noticed him standing behind himself once years ago when Gojo was a child
Imagine Toji knowing all of Kashimo's feats
Toji can legit run away for an hour, or a day, or two, then randomly pop in to sneak attack Kashimo with his stealth because he can, i'm not saying that's what he exactly has to do, but that's just yet another possibility that favors Toji over Kashimo, Toji simply has so many more wincons over Kashimo along with the mentality to use them

fair enough, this should be added to Toji's profile. But do the air slashes have the same property of ignoring durability as the blade itself?

I dont think it matters much in this case, since Maki could slice Sukuna's hand clean off with it, meaning Kashimo isnt tanking the slash
but yes it should be added, tho i think this is obvious enough we dont need to do that right now to be a valid move

1. fair enough but besides potentially duranegging air slashes he doesn't have much else.

Even without air slashes, SSK>>>Kashimo's staff, he slices it along with Kashimo, and a sword obv has a bigger reach than hands, so again, Toji's one shot move is one step of action closer than Kashimo's, meaning he is far far more likely to win than not

and the chain would backfire if Kashimo grabs it at any point due to electricity passing through the metal

I dont think the shock that would reach Toji even if that happened would be meaningful or dangerous to Toji
Even Panda takes those without big issues (the electricity itself, not Kashimo's punches) directly

2. Kashimo doesn't have underhanded tactics, he just makes the more prideful decision amongst the choices that he thinks are guaranteed to work. Kashimo had the choice of either stalling out Jackpot or blasting Hakari in the head, and he chose the latter cuz it's cooler and STILL had a very good chance to work, only failing cuz Hakari's regeneration was fast enough to stop it, which Kashimo didn't know. Kashimo doesn't have this kinda choice here, especially since he knows Toji's feats, likely knows his tactics, and knows what all of his weapons do. Yeah his mindset would make him rush Toji but like you said, that's the only thing he CAN do so his mindset doesn't really help or hurt him here, it's just what he's gonna do

yeah, which means Toji just has more options and wins like 9/10 times

Kashimo > Culling Games Jackpot Hakari

JP Hakari is > Kashimo right now
And Shinjuku Maki = Post Naoya fight Maki, there isnt any clear distinction between the 2
So the chain puts them at practically the same lvl

being forced into melee isn't a good thing against someone who is comparable in speed, has good precog, generally longer reach with SSK and chain, and will camp him in character

Yeah, exactly

However, Toji needs to kill Kashimo right away instead of like cutting off an arm or stabbing him in the chest or something, cuz all of those moves aren't putting Kashimo down since pain resistance is a thing

I mean, Toji is an assassin, we see with Gojo that once he lands a good connection he pretty much finishes the job, and for Kashimo who has no RCT to lose a hand or something would make him as good as dead for Toji

If Kashimo hits Toji even once then the positive charges should be in Toji's system meaning Kashimo could once shot him there

Idk if its 1 hit, all times we saw Kashimo use lightning it was multiple
Panda - a whole beating
1st lightning on Hakari - i count at least 5 hits
2nd lightning on Hakari - they fight for a prolonged time, kashimo lands about 6-7 clean hits alone
3rd lightning needed even more build up and a set up with the staff
It also outright says electrical charge has to accumulate, so it takes some time

+Toji would be using SSK, air slashes, so he isnt close to making a direct contact

Toji would also know about the lightning so he'll avoid getting hit at all costs

Not to mention, Kashimo is a very good fighter himself, so Toji just 1 shotting him with SSK isn't likely since Kashimo's skilled enough to dodge and keep up

I do not think he can keep up when Toji has precog and Kashimo can only hope to dodge and cant block

SSK ignoring durability doesn't really change much since a person being hit by any sword is going to get hurt, durability negation or not. Even a regular katana would kill Kashimo if they go for fatal blows so he's likely going to try and dodge them anyways, especially if he knows SSK ignores his staff's durability and therefore he can't block

(which comes back to my point about Toji also having an ability to sneak with a regular katana)

Do you really think Kashimo can perfectly dodge a guy with same level of speed, precog, a katana that has dura neg and has air slashes, on top of Toji having more mobility via air jumping too for example
We saw that when he's fighting someone relative like Hakari they exchange blows and he cant perfectly dodge them all

...however if Kashimo needs MULTIPLE hits to properly use lightning discharge then he'd just be screwed since the probability of Kashimo landing said hits before Toji either camps him or goes for the head with SSK plummets down the toilet

yeahh

overall I'm switching my vote to Toji. Regardless of whether or not my assumptions are correct, it's either gonna be a super high diff win for Kashimo or a mid diff for Toji. meaning Toji still wins more often than not

 

[CosmoDark38]

Im actually curious, are the air slashes from the ssk dura neg? Logically they shouldn't be since the dura neg portion is a property of the sword and not its motion right?

 

[Mommyleona]

Im actually curious, are the air slashes from the ssk dura neg? Logically they shouldn't be since the dura neg portion is a property of the sword and not its motion right?

Neither is really 100% provable and would need a crt to decide
But for this match up

 

[CosmoDark38]

Neither is really 100% provable and would need a crt to decide
But for this match up

It kinda really does, if the air slash is just a really strong ranged slash(which it seems to be given rika can ce reinforce one) kashimo can just block it by reinforcing his nyoi staff and close the distance to a more favorable range. Flyheads dont help either since hes surrounded in an aura that zaps fodder that he can flare up on a whim. And if it ever gets to a point where toji and kash are going to scrap in cqc kash is still favored since his polarm has higher reach and conducts his ce trait. (Meaning toji gets zapped every hit and likely wouldnt be able to respond as cleanly as hakari would.) If ssk air slashes arent dura neg his range game becomes a hell of a lot less scary and thats the only place toji cleanly wins in the first place.

 

[Mommyleona]

It kinda really does, if the air slash is just a really strong ranged slash(which it seems to be given rika can ce reinforce one) kashimo can just block it by reinforcing his nyoi staff and close the distance to a more favorable range

good luck doing that when it sliced through Sukuna like through butter

Flyheads dont help either since hes surrounded in an aura that zaps fodder that he can flare up on a whim

no he isnt

And if it ever gets to a point where toji and kash are going to scrap in cqc kash is still favored since his polarm has higher reach and conducts his ce trait

Maybe try to actually read my comments above before saying something that has already been debunked?

(Meaning toji gets zapped every hit and likely wouldnt be able to respond as cleanly as hakari would.) If ssk air slashes arent dura neg his range game becomes a hell of a lot less scary and thats the only place toji cleanly wins in the first place.

Yeah you most definitely did not read anything, all of your points have been addressed

 

[Arkenis]

Im actually curious, are the air slashes from the ssk dura neg? Logically they shouldn't be since the dura neg portion is a property of the sword and not its motion right?

Where'd you get the idea its air slashes?

 

[CosmoDark38]

good luck doing that when it sliced through Sukuna like through butter

no he isnt

Maybe try to actually read my comments above before saying something that has already been debunked?

Yeah you most definitely did not read anything, all of your points have been addressed

So did yuta's sword, do you think that means that yuta's sword negs every single curse tool and object in the series, or that reinforced metal object is tougher than reinforced regular dude?

The passive byproduct of his ce trait that he demonstrably can and does flare on a whim? That he demonstrably can discharge on a whim?

To my knowledge you never really talked about his passive ce trait at all or the nyoi staffs better reach compared to the ssk. Isoh does nothing against base kash because he isnt using a curse technique beyond being a ranged attack. Even your win con of ducking for a week doesnt really work at all because they start 6 meters away from each other.
If you have an actual problem quote the part you have issues with dont just go "it has been debunked" citing nothing.

 

[CosmoDark38]

Where'd you get the idea its air slashes?

From people calling it air slashes and literrally nothing implicating it's a property inherent to the SSK?

 

[Arkenis]

From people calling it air slashes and literrally nothing implicating it's a property inherent to the SSK?

Who said that? Did they explain how air would be able to harm Naoya? Or did they explain why Maki's suddenly surprised by Daido's use of the sword doing something her use couldn't? Why would a sword's whole thing be attacking the soul of inanimate objects, only be using air slashes and not also attacking the soul?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Toji glazers convinced me, Toji FRA

 

[Mommyleona]

So did yuta's sword, do you think that means that yuta's sword negs every single curse tool and object in the series, or that reinforced metal object is tougher than reinforced regular dude?

You'd have to prove that Kashimo can reinforce it that much, reinforce in time, not get sliced by SSK itself in the process, as well as every other advantage Toji has over Kashimo

The passive byproduct of his ce trait that he demonstrably can and does flare on a whim? That he demonstrably can discharge on a whim?

Show this actually affecting anyone and not just being an aura thingie + again, fly heads are needed to distract and nothing else, him having to flare up his ce is good enough for Toji to use his stealth

To my knowledge you never really talked about his passive ce trait at all or the nyoi staffs better reach compared to the ssk

i did about both
passive ce trait wont ever come into play (never touching Toji) and can be handled by the likes of panda, his staff gets sliced by SSK

Isoh does nothing against base kash because he isnt using a curse technique beyond being a ranged attack

Never even mentioned Isoh outside of it being used on a chain like a regular blade

Even your win con of ducking for a week doesnt really work at all because they start 6 meters away from each other.

How does that not work when Toji can freely run away and become undetected, as well as Toji having precog + air jumping

If you have an actual problem quote the part you have issues with dont just go "it has been debunked" citing nothing.

you know it gets tiring to repeat something that has already been said? is it really so much to ask to just read the argument above?
CE trait? Staff? SSK counters both, same speed except precog and better mobility with a katana that one shots and does not need charge up, air slashes help finish off
or another wincon stealth/flyheads/regular katana

 

[CosmoDark38]

Who said that? Did they explain how air would be able to harm Naoya? Or did they explain why Maki's suddenly surprised by Daido's use of the sword doing something her use couldn't? Why would a sword's whole thing be attacking the soul of inanimate objects, only be using air slashes and not also attacking the soul?

See the problem i have with this take is that maki's problems with seeing didnt just end at not seeing the soul, it was not seeing as well as toji in general hence why her learning to see the air footholds came with it

But a deeper problem is that if the ssk duranegs everything even if it doesnt make physical contact how is dismantle infinity a counter to it at all? Wouldnt it just not give af and cut through sukuna anyways, why would he even need it if he can snatch a sword with taking any damage to begin with?

 

[Mommyleona]

Toji glazers convinced me, Toji FRA

how it feels to be labeled a Yuta glazer and now a Toji glazer

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

how it feels to be labeled a Yuta glazer and now a Toji glazer

Notice how NO ONE calls you a yuji glazer despite you supossedly being a Yuji fan?
Fake fan fr fr /j
you're just a yuta and toji glazer

 

[CosmoDark38]

You'd have to prove that Kashimo can reinforce it that much, reinforce in time, not get sliced by SSK itself in the process, as well as every other advantage Toji has over Kashimo

Show this actually affecting anyone and not just being an aura thingie + again, fly heads are needed to distract and nothing else, him having to flare up his ce is good enough for Toji to use his stealth

i did about both
passive ce trait wont ever come into play (never touching Toji) and can be handled by the likes of panda, his staff gets sliced by SSK

Never even mentioned Isoh outside of it being used on a chain like a regular blade

How does that not work when Toji can freely run away and become undetected, as well as Toji having precog + air jumping

you know it gets tiring to repeat something that has already been said? is it really so much to ask to just read the argument above?
CE trait? Staff? SSK counters both, same speed except precog and better mobility with a katana that one shots and does not need charge up, air slashes help finish off
or another wincon stealth/flyheads/regular katana

As far as i can tell they scale to the same speed value and around the same ap, so theres really no question that he'd able to block if he can see it coming.

What do you think kashimo's ce trait and chlorine discharge are? If not just him rapidly discharging his ce onto his opponent or the ocean. He never did this against hakari or panda, because he was already smoking panda and it likely does nothing besides apply his ce trait passive inefficiently unless he discharges all of it.

Your counter to him having the advantage in cqc range is just saying he'll never get hit ever despite kashimo knowing what the ssk does ahead of time. Panda wasn't handling anything, he was getting ragdolled the whole fight, he explitly said he couldnt handle it and got reduced to a head on a stick. Its
Entire thing is that even if you block if your reinforcement or output isnt up to snuff you still get shocked.


Did you actually read the battle conditions? The fights in a white room, he'd have to spend time busting open the walls to do any of that against a guy who's a peer in speed and right next to him.

Kashimo has better reach and can do damage even on block to him in cqc even with the benefit of knowing what he's about to do you still get ****** if your opponent significantly outranges you. And thats assuming kash doesnt go for a throw of his staff and lighting retrieval, something toji cant dodge even with foresight. Or if slicing the staff would dispel the charges already on it, meaning breaking it might just leave him to get ****** anyways.

 

[Mickey1940]

JP Hakari is > Kashimo right now
And Shinjuku Maki = Post Naoya fight Maki, there isnt any clear distinction between the 2
So the chain puts them at practically the same lvl

I disagree with both of these

JP Hakari was able to keep up with Kashimo during their battle, but Kashimo didn't actually take that much visible damage in their entire fight while Hakari was taking a LOT of damage which he was able to regenerate from. This makes me believe Kashimo is either a bit stronger, a bit more skilled, or both

As for the Maki stuff, every single person trained while preparing for the Sukuna fight. It wouldn't make much sense for Maki to be doing literally nothing. There's no proof that she didn't get stronger at all, and it'd be kinda disrespectful to her friends and allies in the context of the arc if she didn't at least train a little

everything else is valid tho

 

[Mickey1940]

So did yuta's sword, do you think that means that yuta's sword negs every single curse tool and object in the series, or that reinforced metal object is tougher than reinforced regular dude?

The passive byproduct of his ce trait that he demonstrably can and does flare on a whim? That he demonstrably can discharge on a whim?

To my knowledge you never really talked about his passive ce trait at all or the nyoi staffs better reach compared to the ssk. Isoh does nothing against base kash because he isnt using a curse technique beyond being a ranged attack. Even your win con of ducking for a week doesnt really work at all because they start 6 meters away from each other.
If you have an actual problem quote the part you have issues with dont just go "it has been debunked" citing nothing.

It's moreso that the air slashes being able to harm Sukuna and slash through his body and cursed energy reinforcement like it's butter means if Kashimo gets hit it's equally over for him. Sure maybe you can argue that he can block the air slashes with CE reinforcement through the staff itself but he doesn't have a response besides blocking and getting close, so it still wouldn't do much here

The passive byproduct of his CE has never been shown to severely injure anyone, not even Panda, much less Toji, who is naturally resistant to cursed energy to begin with. Even if you argue he doesn't resist the electricity itself, it still doesn't do enough compared to what Toji is dishing back with the SSK

The staff's better reach doesn't really matter since the SSK will slice the staff on contact instantly. If Toji gets close Kashimo HAS to dodge since we know the SSK can ignore durability in melee. Being 6 meters away from each other means Toji starts blasting with his 9 and/or air slashes and/or chain and Kashimo will be forced to dodge/block everything just to get in close, and if he gets in close he can't block anything cuz SSK igores dura

 

[Arkenis]

But a deeper problem is that if the ssk duranegs everything even if it doesnt make physical contact how is dismantle infinity a counter to it at all? Wouldnt it just not give af and cut through sukuna anyways, why would he even need it if he can snatch a sword with taking any damage to begin with?

Dismantle can block spiritual attacks. Infinity is not physical, SSK doesn't target space. He used dismantle to grab the sword

 

[Mommyleona]

As far as i can tell they scale to the same speed value and around the same ap, so theres really no question that he'd able to block if he can see it coming.

The slash can slice Sukuna's arm, who i dont think i have to say even when that weakened is still >> HH and everyone close
And no, Toji has precog over Kashimo and again, just imagine this actually happening, Toji is swinging his sword and Kashimo has to dodge it perfectly, when Toji can also send slashes at any second, any move being likely lethal
Like gen yall are speaking in some impossibles for Kashimo to perform, this is so unlikely to happen, that there's almost no reason to vote for Kashimo

What do you think kashimo's ce trait and chlorine discharge are? If not just him rapidly discharging his ce onto his opponent or the ocean

Its his electricity affecting the water and creating the gas, it is not the same as creating some explosive aura of electricity

He never did this against hakari or panda, because he was already smoking panda and it likely does nothing besides apply his ce trait passive inefficiently unless he discharges all of it.

Speaking in headcanons i see

Your counter to him having the advantage in cqc range is just saying he'll never get hit ever despite kashimo knowing what the ssk does ahead of time

And how does that help?

Panda wasn't handling anything, he was getting ragdolled the whole fight, he explitly said he couldnt handle it and got reduced to a head on a stick

Even Panda takes those without big issues (the electricity itself, not Kashimo's punches) directly

Yes he does, he was being destroyed by the force of the punches, the electricity itself wasnt doing much

Entire thing is that even if you block if your reinforcement or output isnt up to snuff you still get shocked

It doesnt matter

Did you actually read the battle conditions? The fights in a white room, he'd have to spend time busting open the walls to do any of that against a guy who's a peer in speed and right next to him.

i mean, i dont think it should take much for a high 7C guy to burst through a wall?
And its not like he has to, its just a possibility, him pulling a ssk out already gives him enough to win

Kashimo has better reach

He doesnt, his staff gets sliced by SSK in the first second

can do damage even on block to him in cqc

He cant, like legit you are comparing dura neg sword with slashes that can slice Sukuna to regular ass punches from Kashimo/hits with his staff, his only real wincon is lightning, which he'll have to charge up and transfer the charges to Toji, both of which take more time than just swinging at Kashimo with SSK

And thats assuming kash doesnt go for a throw of his staff and lighting retrieval, something toji cant dodge even with foresight

Yea he can, and its nowhere being Kashimo's first move AND it needs charge up time too

JP Hakari was able to keep up with Kashimo during their battle, but Kashimo didn't actually take that much visible damage in their entire fight while Hakari was taking a LOT of damage which he was able to regenerate from. This makes me believe Kashimo is either a bit stronger, a bit more skilled, or both

JP Hakari was outperforming Kashimo quite a bit

As for the Maki stuff, every single person trained while preparing for the Sukuna fight. It wouldn't make much sense for Maki to be doing literally nothing.

yea via switch training which Maki did not do

There's no proof that she didn't get stronger at all, and it'd be kinda disrespectful to her friends and allies in the context of the arc if she didn't at least train a little

I mean... you are the one who has to prove she trained and improved, not the other way around

 

[MochOath]

Maki definitely got stronger between the end of the CG and Shinjuku
just unquantifiably so

 

[Mickey1940]

JP Hakari was outperforming Kashimo quite a bit

Kashimo did more damage to Hakari by hitting him in the face with a door than Hakari did to Kashimo with his barrage of attacks. Hakari landed more hits, yeah, but Kashimo was only really left with a few bruises and a bloody nose after their entire fight.

... although, rereading the fight, Hakari actually did land way more hits than I thought. Maybe the door thing was a fluke

via switch training which Maki did not do

I mean... you are the one who has to prove she trained and improved, not the other way around

She doesn't have cursed energy so switch training wouldn't have benefitrd her

And it's moreso common sense dictates that Maki had to have prepared in some way for the upcoming fight due to the context of the story. She didn't reveal any new weapons or tools, so the only other ways she could have prepared is either by training or by doing nothing, and its very unlikely that she did nothing

She's definitely stronger in Shinjuku, but its impossible to figure out by how much

 

[IamMadeOutOfStone]

yeah im alive counted votes and blah blah bump or something boi

 

[ShionAH]

Kashimo did more damage to Hakari by hitting him in the face with a door than Hakari did to Kashimo with his barrage of attacks

If Hakari hit Kashimo with the same door his head would fly off.

It doesn't really matter since JP Hakari is above Toji anyway in stats

 

[ShionAH]

1st lightning on Hakari - i count at least 5 hits

Where did you see 5 hits let alone the higher ones? He lands 3 hits and fires a Lighting.

 

[Mommyleona]

Where did you see 5 hits let alone the higher ones? He lands 3 hits and fires a Lighting.

Dooont remember, but here's 4 hits

 

[ShionAH]

Dooont remember, but here's 4 hits

Damn you right, I completely forgot about the elbow hit at the end

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

bump

 

[IamMadeOutOfStone]

bump again bro pls