- 246
- 222
I'm not doubting you or anything but do you have a source for this? I would like to add it to the CRT post.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Digimon Discusion Thread ALL IN ONE Revisions Update
- Thread starter Executor_N0
- Start date
-
- Tags
- digimon
- 14,227
- 5,685
Mostly Digimon Ghost Game, i'm kind of busy right now by tommorow i will gatters scans to sent here, but iirc this is talked about in thr verse page
- 14,227
- 5,685
Don't have much time to get the Ghost Game scans into a IMGUR currently, so for now i'll just link this blog
Also i would recomend waiting for Digimon Story Time Stranger to launch before trying any CRT, apparently it will go more deeper into the lore and all that
- 246
- 222
Yeah, I just made the pseudo-CRT to get my thoughts in order. I already said I'd wait for Time Stranger to come out before posting it in the Content Revision section.
- 14,227
- 5,685
Do you really have no discord? It would make getting information and scans easier if you joined the Digimon server
- 246
- 222
I guess I can create an account later. I'll let you know when I do.
- 246
- 222
Okay, I think I got my account set up now.
- 14,227
- 5,685
Here ia the invite link
Edit: expired, hete is the new link
Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games
Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.discord.gg
Here is a invite link
Participe do servidor do Discord The Digital World's Kernel!
Dê uma olhada na comunidade The Digital World's Kernel no Discord. Fique de boa com outros 108 membros e curta bate-papo de voz e texto grátis.
- 319
- 154
Only change Time Stranger did is retconning a character 7th time in the franchise. Other than that, it doesn't affect scaling or tier. Of course, Jupitermon will get some new abilities, but that's pretty much it so far.
- 8,404
- 2,733
Who got retconned?
- 3,617
- 4,116
- Thread starter
- #132
The Great Will (Known as the Great Intent from the localization of CS) was revealed to be
Homeostasis
- 3,617
- 4,116
- Thread starter
- #133
The following is a general explanation of the whole Time Stranger situation, it's hidden for being spoiler content.
Basically, Digimon Story Time Stranger is one of the smallest additions to the cosmology and worldview when you are thinking only in the scope of somewhere like this Wiki. If one were to actually use only the material for the game, you won't get anywhere close to anything that is in our profiles.
Some of the general themes are still in the game, but not presented with the lore and elements from something like Adventure, Cyber Sleuth or Survive that actually make these elements feel impressive (Like the whole deal about Digimon being the other-half souls, reality being shaped by cognition, the bonds transcending space-time actually being something literal instead of just a metaphor, etc).
If you were to use just Time Stranger, what you have is just a collection of parallel universes across space-time that sometimes are different in composition, the Digital World is just a "phase electron space" that still can be affected by technology that manipulates said phase electrons.
In fact, in the context of Time Stranger the nature of time is basically depicted as the highest thing in the setting besides the creator; it's directly called out as something special and even Plutomon calls it that power, something that can't be compared to "finite beings like ourselves".
Above these parallel worlds, there's "the creator being", "the higher being", "the great will", which is revealed to be Homeostasis, which is stated in the original text to be "a higher-dimensional being". And that is all.
You have parallel worlds that can get you something like 2-C on its own and Homeostasis as the absolute being that is higher-dimensional above it. And that is all.
So, unless someone decides to somehow scale TS with past content, no one is getting any upgrades from this (Except for Homeostasis, which got a full retcon, no questions asked, about being the creator god of the entire setting). In fact, I wouldn't even be in line with any scaling due to how much the game doesn't build up on past material and also directly contradicts it, so maybe some could just want to accept TS as being the big retcon that will make all the past content outdated.
Some of the general themes are still in the game, but not presented with the lore and elements from something like Adventure, Cyber Sleuth or Survive that actually make these elements feel impressive (Like the whole deal about Digimon being the other-half souls, reality being shaped by cognition, the bonds transcending space-time actually being something literal instead of just a metaphor, etc).
If you were to use just Time Stranger, what you have is just a collection of parallel universes across space-time that sometimes are different in composition, the Digital World is just a "phase electron space" that still can be affected by technology that manipulates said phase electrons.
In fact, in the context of Time Stranger the nature of time is basically depicted as the highest thing in the setting besides the creator; it's directly called out as something special and even Plutomon calls it that power, something that can't be compared to "finite beings like ourselves".
Above these parallel worlds, there's "the creator being", "the higher being", "the great will", which is revealed to be Homeostasis, which is stated in the original text to be "a higher-dimensional being". And that is all.
You have parallel worlds that can get you something like 2-C on its own and Homeostasis as the absolute being that is higher-dimensional above it. And that is all.
So, unless someone decides to somehow scale TS with past content, no one is getting any upgrades from this (Except for Homeostasis, which got a full retcon, no questions asked, about being the creator god of the entire setting). In fact, I wouldn't even be in line with any scaling due to how much the game doesn't build up on past material and also directly contradicts it, so maybe some could just want to accept TS as being the big retcon that will make all the past content outdated.
- 246
- 222
No offense but I don't think I agree.
This is just my hypothetical but the main reason you're not allowing scaling to old materials is because of Habu getting the boot as producer and being replaced by Hara. This seems to be where the whole "doesn't build up on past materials" thing comes from.
If Time Stranger is the exact same right now but released by Habu, I have a feeling you'd be singing a different tune.
Seriously, just because we have no idea how much of Time Stranger was influenced by Habu's ideas that it should be taken at face value and act like the game is ******** on past materials like Cyber Sleuth, just as an example?
This is just my hypothetical but the main reason you're not allowing scaling to old materials is because of Habu getting the boot as producer and being replaced by Hara. This seems to be where the whole "doesn't build up on past materials" thing comes from.
If Time Stranger is the exact same right now but released by Habu, I have a feeling you'd be singing a different tune.
Seriously, just because we have no idea how much of Time Stranger was influenced by Habu's ideas that it should be taken at face value and act like the game is ******** on past materials like Cyber Sleuth, just as an example?
- 3,617
- 4,116
- Thread starter
- #135
Maybe you have some different expectations about me, but there isn't anything that I allow or don't allow. What I do is only what I do and it doesn't need to answer to anyone else. I make the questioning on the fair grounds of "If this is a Retcon, why shouldn't we assume that everything else is also a Retcon?", which is just a question I make that I think has no absolute answer; everyone makes their own choices.
Like, I'm unsure if you know what my opinions are, but I personally believe that stuff like the Homeostasis retcon was Habu's choice, or at least vastly influenced by him, and I still dislike that. I know that there's a setup about this since Decode, and that during the Anime Expo Q&A about the future of Digimon, Habu himself said that in his vision, he understands the Digimon world as "when the 'homeostasis' took place", which I assume was just a bad translation of a tease for this retcon from Time Stranger.
The "lack of build up on past material" comes not on themes, but on detail. Because on its own, TS does follow the general themes and keywords from past materials. Like, they directly use the setting that Digimon have existed since ancient times and are the origin of tales about gods, demons, heroes and other stuff, which was one of Habu's favorite settings. Even stuff like the Akashic Records was something that Habu had been teasing since Cyber Sleuth and was something discussed for quite a bit during his livestreams promoting Hacker's Memory.
My problem is how all of this is only surface-level and the level of detail from the past works wasn't used here. Like, there are no details about what it means for "maybe Digimon have been around since ancient times" and how that happens, which was something discussed in length in both Cyber Sleuth and Survive. The odd nature of time in the Digital World was also discussed, and one of the plot points in Cyber Sleuth is exactly how, in the Digital World, it's possible to freely change the timeline by changing records, which Suedo wanted to mimic by using the Eaters' unique network sharing that transcended time. Even in Digimon Survive one of the most important plot points is about the odd nature of space-time in the Digital World and how there's a literal bond between human and Digimon that transcends space-time.
In Time Stranger, the feeling I had is that only keywords were mentioned, but with no depth, because if they were, the whole plot could completely fall apart (Personally, I felt a stronger depiction of a "bond that transcends space-time" from Survive than Time Stranger). I think this is the closest I can actually get in the idea "Hara didn't know how to develop these themes after Habu was removed", because we actually know that the story was drastically lacking since less than 2 years ago, and Hara literally had to make up the story and characterization on the go with the voice actors during the recording before there was even animation for the scenes. But even that, it could literally have been exactly as Habu intended, because he not only wasn't perfect in any way, but he made various mistakes and a lot of things that I found interesting about some of his past works were just a case of sheer luck that even he wasn't aware of as it's made clear in the livestreams he made.
Whether this is Hara's changes in the game, or Habu's intent since the start, it doesn't really change how I feel about the game. Personally, the "homeostasis retcon" is just the easiest thing I can mention, but it is also the most inconsequential on scaling. It really just means that Homeostasis lied in the past, and now it is the most powerful thing ever. I dislike this, but not really a "big problem". The Digital World not being portrayed as anything more than an odd parallel world after a lot of development was given about data and thought in both Cyber Sleuth and Survive, the Digimon not being explained how they actually existed "since ancient times" and the nature of the bonds between humans and how they literally were intended to transcend space-time not being mentioned at all are all far bigger problems in my opinion as some of them literally break the cosmology presented in Time Stranger and how much it depends on Homeostasis being the only higher-dimensional entity here and how time is supposed to be this super impressive concept that rules over everything below Homeostasis, or maybe the Hosts at most.
Like, I'm unsure if you know what my opinions are, but I personally believe that stuff like the Homeostasis retcon was Habu's choice, or at least vastly influenced by him, and I still dislike that. I know that there's a setup about this since Decode, and that during the Anime Expo Q&A about the future of Digimon, Habu himself said that in his vision, he understands the Digimon world as "when the 'homeostasis' took place", which I assume was just a bad translation of a tease for this retcon from Time Stranger.
The "lack of build up on past material" comes not on themes, but on detail. Because on its own, TS does follow the general themes and keywords from past materials. Like, they directly use the setting that Digimon have existed since ancient times and are the origin of tales about gods, demons, heroes and other stuff, which was one of Habu's favorite settings. Even stuff like the Akashic Records was something that Habu had been teasing since Cyber Sleuth and was something discussed for quite a bit during his livestreams promoting Hacker's Memory.
My problem is how all of this is only surface-level and the level of detail from the past works wasn't used here. Like, there are no details about what it means for "maybe Digimon have been around since ancient times" and how that happens, which was something discussed in length in both Cyber Sleuth and Survive. The odd nature of time in the Digital World was also discussed, and one of the plot points in Cyber Sleuth is exactly how, in the Digital World, it's possible to freely change the timeline by changing records, which Suedo wanted to mimic by using the Eaters' unique network sharing that transcended time. Even in Digimon Survive one of the most important plot points is about the odd nature of space-time in the Digital World and how there's a literal bond between human and Digimon that transcends space-time.
In Time Stranger, the feeling I had is that only keywords were mentioned, but with no depth, because if they were, the whole plot could completely fall apart (Personally, I felt a stronger depiction of a "bond that transcends space-time" from Survive than Time Stranger). I think this is the closest I can actually get in the idea "Hara didn't know how to develop these themes after Habu was removed", because we actually know that the story was drastically lacking since less than 2 years ago, and Hara literally had to make up the story and characterization on the go with the voice actors during the recording before there was even animation for the scenes. But even that, it could literally have been exactly as Habu intended, because he not only wasn't perfect in any way, but he made various mistakes and a lot of things that I found interesting about some of his past works were just a case of sheer luck that even he wasn't aware of as it's made clear in the livestreams he made.
Whether this is Hara's changes in the game, or Habu's intent since the start, it doesn't really change how I feel about the game. Personally, the "homeostasis retcon" is just the easiest thing I can mention, but it is also the most inconsequential on scaling. It really just means that Homeostasis lied in the past, and now it is the most powerful thing ever. I dislike this, but not really a "big problem". The Digital World not being portrayed as anything more than an odd parallel world after a lot of development was given about data and thought in both Cyber Sleuth and Survive, the Digimon not being explained how they actually existed "since ancient times" and the nature of the bonds between humans and how they literally were intended to transcend space-time not being mentioned at all are all far bigger problems in my opinion as some of them literally break the cosmology presented in Time Stranger and how much it depends on Homeostasis being the only higher-dimensional entity here and how time is supposed to be this super impressive concept that rules over everything below Homeostasis, or maybe the Hosts at most.
- 3,117
- 3,921
Ok, so before I even try to do anything with the profile I want to know how controversial it is since idk anything about the standards and this is much quicker than reading mountains of text for a yes or no.
I want to do a revamp of Witchmon which would inevitably include stuff from Time Stranger. Is there any objections for me using her dream stuff and skills from that game
I want to do a revamp of Witchmon which would inevitably include stuff from Time Stranger. Is there any objections for me using her dream stuff and skills from that game
- 319
- 154
Her profile needs an update anyway, since all galaxy levels are supposed to be upgraded to Low Complex Multi from last Perfects CRT.
But the Titan Witchmon should be a separate key. Iirc it has pretty high scaling too.
- 3,117
- 3,921
Wasn't sure if it needed a new key or not for just it's abilities (there seems to have been discourse on the cosmology with it and stuff) so im not entirely sure where that'd might end up scaling.
Plus from what I recall Witchmon's most impressive stuff just comes from her dream hax anyway, so its entirely possible the Titan one might just have no difference in scaling
- 319
- 154
She was fought after the Agent already defeated Ultimate Brachiomon. And she shouldn't be weaker than the titan Greymon (Blue), who was an early boss and was giving Minervamon trouble.
- 3,117
- 3,921
In the dream world, she never fights the Agent directly iirc
Minervamon goes through a bunch of training throughout the game, going from Blue Greymon all the way to Beelzemon. So im unsure how good of a bar that is.
- 14,227
- 5,685
at the very least that makes her Ultimate/Mega level, which is a very big upgrade from where she is normally depicted as
- 3,117
- 3,921
What part of it makes her ultimate/mega level? Since Minervamon isn't at her peak until much later on in the story and the version you fight is in a dream.
Also, what stops this from being a Ogremon situation where more experienced members can do this stuff. Since reaching Ultimate level isn't outside a Witchmon's capabilities normally (granted, that's with an amp but it does show such power isn't beyond reason for them to tap into). Hell iirc she's even on a similar status as the Ogremon in the game who got bested early on only to start boxing with Ultimates after the 8 year skip.
- 14,227
- 5,685
Minerva is still an ultimate/mega level Digimon, so should still be at least that strong
could be now that you say it like that
- 3,117
- 3,921
The thing is Minervamon is in a very weird part since she starts out much weaker than usual. Her struggling against a Blue Greymon is kinda evident of itself that she doesn't start ultimate level, and by the end of the game she's practically Mega level with how she's fighting Beelzemon. So I don't think using her as a metric is a good idea for Time Stranger since she alongside the sun and moon duo have a whole story around how they get stronger throughout the 8 years.
- 319
- 154
Pretty much everyone in Iliad is strong. Craniamon mentioned it in his quest when he's wounded by a Titan. Orgemon trio also scales pretty high for example, as they considered the Digimon in Iliad temple to be weaklings, and defeated them. That place's filled with Mega Digimon, like Goddramon, Holydramon, even Seraphimon and Ophanimon.
The game's weird like that. Like Sharkmon, SkullSeadramon, etc were fought after Ultimate Brachiomon, a Mega, and were still considered to be a tough challenge.
Not to mention, RK Dynasmon mentioning Megadramon is too strong, he's not confident and need our help.
- 14,227
- 5,685
Digimon Update Revision: Physiology, Data and Hellfire
Hello everyone, Digimon is a very old verse here in the wiki, several pages such as the Physiology page for Digimon are very outdated, as such me and several other supporters were working on updating it and several other aspects of the verse, without further delay, here we go Digimon Physiology...
New thread.... BIG thread
- 70
- 116
Kazuma_kuwabara
He/Him- 6,957
- 3,607
Every day is christmas maaaaa brutha
- 70
- 116
- 14,227
- 5,685
The Noble Hero vs The Dark King (Leomon vs Demigra)
...........vs....... "Your evil power is too great, if you are to roam free countless lives will suffer, i won't allow it, your Darkness must be destroyed for the sake of everyone, prepared yourself demon""Foolish warrior, not only have I become the Dark King, but now I am also a God with the...
Vs match up with our Lion King
- 81
- 14
Hmm just so you guys know I am asking out of pure curiosity... is The Ex-Tyrannomon profile already updated? Because it looks very different to the other profiles around it... The Mother Eater also different to the others but my guess for that one is for a pending CRT rather than people not updating it
- 319
- 154
ExTyrannomon is not updated with the latest revision yet. As for Mother Eater page, it'll require a full rework.
- 70
- 116
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken (more of a personal opinion):
ME, SGDL/Ogudo, Jesmon, and Yggy will need full reworks.
- 81
- 14
That is what I figured... take whatever time you guys think is needed for this... I was just curious since the other profiles were updated almost blindingly fast (at least at a base state).
- 64,112
- 16,106
So the new Time Stranger DLC definitely throws a wrench in some scaling lol
- 64,112
- 16,106
Parallelmon in the third DLC reduced the digital world to nothing but a wire framework
Mbpoops
He/Him- 9,503
- 8,755
What would this affect
- 64,112
- 16,106
Well lets see...
In the first DLC, it took two versions of Omnimon backed up by three Mega/Mega+ level Digimon to beat him
In the second it took Omnimon Merciful Mode and all of the Banchos
In the third it took Alphamon, Omnimon X, Jesmon X, Magnamon X, and UltforceVeedramon X to beat him
So take that how you will
Similar threads
- Locked
