Here comes the FRA train
Vader has a good AP advantage, in addition to AOE blocking options like Force Barrier. Besides things like Force Push to throw Pochita away or paralyze him with Force Stasis.
Even if Pochita manages to injure him significantly, he has good type 2 immortality, and the AP gap will increase even further with more dark side amplifications. The lightsaber's temperature itself can increase due to Vader's rage.
Vader's AP is strictly limited to his physical strikes and his lightsaber, not the Force itself. It seems like you are having trouble distinguishing between
Striking Strength and
Lifting Strength, so let me break it down again like I did previously.
According to the Striking Strength page:
Striking strength refers to the energy behind physical attacks such as punches, weapon strikes or similar actions. It is based on the combination of speed and mass during an action. Because of this it is treated differently from lifting strength and uses a separate classification system.
Now compare that with Lifting Strength:
Lifting strength measures the amount of force output used to move mass, which includes pushing and pulling. This is important because abilities like Force Push or Force barriers function by applying force to move or restrain an opponent.
The key point is stated directly in the page as well:
Because of this, AP and lifting strength are
not interchangeable stats. A character can hit extremely hard while still having much lower lifting strength. That's why Force Push or Force barriers would fall under a lifting strength interaction rather than an AP interaction. They are not striking attacks, they are applications of force meant to move or restrain a target.
Since Pochita has roughly a
1.9 million advantage in LS, Vader simply would not be able to meaningfully move or restrain him with those abilities. The amount of force being applied is massively lower than the force Pochita can exert in return.
That is why I mentioned previously that these abilities would not work in this scenario.
The Force itself is pretty much LS based. You cannot push someone who has a 1.9 million difference in LS compared to you. LS itself measures the amount of force a character can produce and pushing and pulling feats fall under that category as well. Because of this, a character with vastly higher LS would not be meaningfully moved by someone applying far less force.
The same applies to the barrier. It was a bit difficult to pick up the exact point of the passage you sent since there was a lot going on, with buildings being crushed and a lot of telekinetic collateral. However, if the Force barrier functions as a barrier that applies opposing force to hold something back, then it would still fall under the same LS interaction. In that case Pochita would simply walk through it via LS.
Pochita doesn't have any indication of how much its AP/Durability is increased with "higher with chainsaws". So it's just an assumption that it's strong enough to bridge the AP gap.
Besides, durability doesn't really matter? The chainsaws aren't listed as having higher heat resistance. Higher durability ≠ higher heat resistance.
The saber will cut any part of Pochita as if they were the same thing.
That was not an assumption at all. That is simply basic physics. Piercing weapons work by concentrating force onto an extremely small contact area which massively increases the pressure applied to the target. Because the force is focused onto such a tiny surface, the resulting pressure becomes far greater than what blunt force alone would produce. This is why blades, bullets and chainsaws can penetrate materials that would otherwise withstand much larger blunt impacts.
Pochita's chainsaws function under the same principle. Repeating what I said above, the AP is concentrated along the small cutting surface of the chainsaw teeth, which greatly amplifies the piercing damage. On top of that the chainsaws are already shown capable of cutting through Pochita's own body with ease. Because of this it is not an assumption to say the chainsaws could damage Vader. That follows directly from how piercing damage works.
Toward Pochita's regular body yes, but his chainsaws are different. They upscale from his main body's durability, since they can cut through it like butter. The AP is also concentrated onto an extremely small contact point along the chainsaw teeth, which greatly amplifies the resulting piercing damage. Because the force is applied over such a small surface area the pressure becomes enormous, allowing the chainsaws to cut through targets far tougher than what his blunt force would allow. Chainsaw piercing damage is simply that overpowered.
As for heat resistance, that depends on how much heat we are talking about here. Pochita already shows resistance to temperatures of at least
3871°C or 7000°F and above
with his heart alone. He was able to survive that level of heat and regenerate in the process.
And I never argued that Vader could not damage him. Like I said before, Pochita can take punishment from Vader because of his regeneration. The difference is that Vader cannot take the same punishment from Chainsaw Man. Once Pochita lands a decisive hit Vader does not have the same ability to recover from that damage.
Pochita still would not mind
taking the brunt of damage in order to punish Vader for his block. It is still very much a loss in Vader's case, as he's still getting diced up.
No? Pulling and pushing are based on LS when you're actually pushing something.
When you punch and the person flies far away, that's based on AP, not LS.
Force Push is like a punch that pushes you very far while dealing concussion damage. It's not based on LS.
edit: Even considering the possibility that Force Push might not push Pochita, it's still a destructive concussive force based on AP that will damage him significantly due to the AP difference.
We already went over these points earlier so I will just clarify again.
First, the idea that Force Push works like a punch is not really supported by Vader's own profile. Most of the abilities listed there fall under telekinesis, which is explicitly described as using the Force to put "
mind over matter", blasting opponents, pulling objects, crushing them, or otherwise
manipulating them. Those are all applications of
force being exerted to move mass, which is exactly what lifting strength interactions measure. The same applies to things like Force Barrier which is literally described as
creating a wall of Force energy to stop attacks or deflect projectiles. If the barrier works by exerting opposing force to hold something back then it still becomes a force versus force interaction.
The distinction between striking strength and lifting strength is already explained on the wiki itself. I will re-iterate it for you
again. Striking Strength measures the energy behind a physical blow, while Lifting Strength measures the amount of force a character can apply to move mass. Pushing and pulling feats fall under lifting strength according to the page. So when an ability is being used to push, restrain, hold or repel something it becomes a lifting strength interaction rather than a striking strength one.
Even if you want to argue that Force Push has some concussive component, we already discussed that the main function of the ability is still to move or repel the target, which still depends on the amount of force being applied. In this matchup that matters because there is roughly a
1.9 million difference in lifting strength between the two characters when using the values on their profiles. With that level of disparity Vader simply does not have the force output required to meaningfully move or restrain Pochita.
So this is not really a new point. We already addressed the difference between striking strength and lifting strength earlier, and Vader's own Notable Attacks and Techniques section supports that these abilities are telekinetic applications of force rather than physical striking attacks.
This isn't LS, this is motion deceleration.
Force stasis slows things down until they freeze, it's not containing something based on LS.
Like, can't you see that the exploding grenade is frozen?
Yeah honestly I would have to disagree here, especially with the scans you sent. For example the weapon projectile that Vader "froze" and the guy who was also affected by it
were clearly being held in place and unable to move. You can tell because he is spasming where he stood. That does not have anything to do with a status effect, that is simply Force inducement. All those clips are just holding the opponent in place with the force.
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