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0:Yes, you read that right.
I am currently going to debunk every MHS(+) calc/character for Demon Slayer.
Terribly sorry if there is someone making a CRT already.
Exhibit 1:Zenitsu.
Most people have Zenitsu at MHS+/MHS, due to his breathing style being lightning and him being stated to move at lightning speed multiple times along the series, and that is inconsistent because:
1.1:Breathing styles don't actually summon their elements.
One could say "But it very clearly says the water is faint, so it exists"
Partially true, the water IS faint, but only to those that imagine it at all.
Regular humans would just see people fighting demons with regular-ish swords.
And it wouldn't really make much sense for a character with a breathing style based on sound to be faster than, or even comparable to a breathing style based around lightning, would it now?
1.2: People commonly mistake "like lightning", "moving fast like lightning" for "as fast as lightning".
They're not the same thing guys, one means moving in an unpredictable way, one is hyperbole and the other is just moving at Mach 1283.
1.3:Six-Fold Thunder Flash calc: This has already been debunked in another thread.
That should be about it for Zenitsu.
Exhibit 2:Kaigaku.
2.1:It's a Blood Demon Art. It's not made of whatever lightning is made out of.
2.2:Thunder refers to the sound that lightning makes, and not the strike itself.
2.3:His "lightning" has no verifiable traits of real lightning, other than the fact that it burns. And even then, that's not a trait specific to lightning.
It doesn't contract muscles, it isn't sky-to-ground, it doesn't conduct through Nichirin blade metal (which, whether you like it or not, is still a metal, so it's conductive. There's nothing disproving this other than the MHS Demon Slayer narrative.), no electromagnetism manipulation has been shown, and it doesn't cause electrolysis.
That also should be all for Kaigaku, if there's anything else regarding him let me know.
Exhibit 3:Hantengu(Zohakuten, Sekido).
3.1:His lightning can be cut, which is impossible given lightning is immaterial.
3.2:His lightning isn't sky-to-ground (seeing as Zohakuten's lightning comes from the dragon heads, and Sekido's comes from the bottom of the staff) as we don't see it fall nor go up, and it's also blue/red.
3.3:I know i've stated this before, but it's a Blood Demon Art. That's a reason as to why it isn't made of the same thing as lightning.
He could very well reshape it to have (one to two) properties of lightning, and it still wouldn't be lightning. This guy couldn't have said it better.(Replace Kaigaku for Hantengu).
3.4:The soundwave was already able to travel a far enough distance before the lightning bolts finish firing, which shouldn't be possible considering one is 1283 times faster than the other.
3.4.1:Nothing implies the soundwaves were frozen while she(Mitsuri) was cutting the surroundings. This is pure headcanon.
3.4.2:The lightning already struck the ground by the time she mowed the surroundings. Even if you do argue that she did indeed hit the lightning, it's still an antifeat because it couldn't conduct through the sword and electrocute her.
3.5:It wouldn't make much sense using sound, wind, lightning and light in the same match, considering one has unquantifiable speed, one is mach 1, one is mach 1283(if what you guys make of it is true), and the other is mach 900,000(if what you guys make of it is true.).
This should be all for Hantengu and Mitsuri, moving on.
Exhibit 4:Muichiro.
textwall warning
Before you read this, know that most, if not all numbers for this calc are rounded to the nearest integer for the sake of simplicity(so the speed is actually higher than it should be)
they have been stated to be mackerel, are about as big as mackerel, and they do infact look like mackerel (see ep.53, or chap. 120 page 8).
I forgot what order i measured them in, but it doesn't matter. Let there be mackerels.
Mackerel
Mackerel
Mackerel
1.4/6.5 aspect ratio for Mackerel 1
1.8/6.8 aspect ratio for Mackerel 2
1.2/6.5 aspect ratio for Mackerel 3
On average, a 1.5/6.6
Mackerel are usually 14 inches according to this
14 inches = 36 cm
Tail height is 7.95454545455 cm, or ~8cm
Fish height to tail height ratio is 1.8/1 on average according to my measurements.
Fish height is ~4 cm
6.3(length)/1.3(width) ratio according to https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/atlantic-mackerel-e4a92741c16448e38a0be59845ab369b 's mackerel model
8.48m is muichiro's 360 degree reach according to the original killer fish calc
36 cm length, 4 cm height, 7.5cm width
8.48m is 84800 cm
84800 divided by 7.5(width of the fish) is 11306.6666667 or 11307
84800 divided by 4(height of the fish) is 21200
84800 divided by 36(length of the fish) is 2355.55555556, or 2356
Even if we divide all these numbers by half(due to me assuming 360 degree slashes), we get the following
5654 fish width-wise
1178 fish length-wise
10200 fish height-wise
This assumed the fish would be stacked neatly, and for a good reason. They're summons, and they were shown as tightly packed in the manga.
But your pros for me doing this far outnumber my pros because:
1.This assumes Muichiro perfectly cut the fish in half(Greatly reducing the amount of fish cut.).
2.This assumes that no fish are stacked behind one another, making Muichiro only get 1 fish at once(this is what i assume it should look like, and here's how he could get more fish per swing )
3.This assumes the time that Muichiro cut it in is true, because OP accounted for gravity
Hell, even if we divide the amount by 4, it still is far above the measly 10 """lowball"""
(If you're wondering, values for these are:
2550 fish height-wise
295 fish length-wise
1414 fish width-wise)
Where does this all scale? Well we have 18 answers for this, and none are MHS(note that timeframe 2 results are unusable for scaling due to it having been debunked in the thread i linked earlier debunking the Zenitsu calc, i just put it in incase someone wanted to know where it scales):
Widthwise high-end Timeframe 1: 4.24m x 7 / 0.11s = 296.8 m/s (Subsonic+)
Widthwise high-end Timeframe 2: 4.24m x 7/0.0235s =1261,4 m/s(Supersonic+)
Lengthwise high-end timeframe 1: 139.92m/ 0.11s = 1272 m/s(Supersonic+)
Lengthwise high-end timeframe 2(Please don't take this out of context):139.92m(4.24 x 7) / 0.0235 s = 5945 m/s (Hypersonic+)
Heightwise high-end timeframe 1: 16.96m(4.24 x 4)/0.11s =154.2 m/s(Subsonic)
Heightwise high-end timeframe 2: 16.96m / 0.0235s = 720.8 m/s(Supersonic)
Widthwise mid end timeframe 1: 4.24 x 2m / 0.11s = 77 m/s(Subsonic)
Widthwise mid end timeframe 2: 8.48 m /0.0235 s = 360.4 m/s(Transonic)
Lengthwise mid end timeframe 1: 4.24 x 9m / 0.11s = 346.9 m/s(Transonic)
Lengthwise mid end timeframe 2: 4.24 x 9m / 0.0235 s = 1621.8 m/s (Supersonic+)
Heightwise mid end timeframe 1: 4.24m / 0.11s = 38.5 m/s(Subsonic)
Heightwise mid end timeframe 2: 4.24m / 0.0235s = 180.2 m/s(Subsonic+)
Widthwise low end timeframe 1: 4.24m / 0.11s = 38.5 m/s(Subsonic)
Widthwise low end timeframe 2: 4.24m / 0.0235s = 180.2 m/s(Subsonic+)
Lengthwise low end timeframe 1:4.24m x 4m / 0.11s = 154.2m/s(Subsonic)
Lengthwise low end timeframe 2: 4.24 x 4m(16.96m) / 0.0235s = 720.8 m/s (Supersonic)
Heightwise low end timeframe 1: 2.12(half slash due to being able to get double the amount of fishes summoned in one slash)m / 0.11s = 19.3 m/s (Superhuman)
Heightwise low end timeframe 2: 2.12 / 0.0235s = 90.1 m/s(Subsonic)
This should be all for Muichiro.
Note that Muichiro does not upscale from Kokushibo, as he wasn't consistently able to dodge Kokushibo's attacks, and that's what killed him in the end.
Exhibit 5:Muzan.
5.1:His only feat (other than chainscaling) is blitzing a lower moon, and then the other lower moons getting impressed about his speed.
However, this is inconsistent because
a.There's no proof for them having peak human reactions, so the assumed should be 1/60, not 1/220.
b.They could very well have not been paying attention.
Exhibit 6:Tengen.
6.1:His only MHS feat is cutting all the beads before they explode, and this is wrong for numerous reasons, such as:
a.Nothing says he triggered the bombs right away/triggered the first bomb. This is further reinforced by the fact that the bombs didn't explode right away in the anime.
b.He could very well have cut all the bombs at the same time(Not that far off from a verse with slightly-super humans fighing demons with superpowers), greatly reducing the time needed to cut all of them
c.He used TNT as the default, when C4 is the default in the absence of proof for TNT being the default
TNT shouldn't even be the default, as it(the beads)'s a special explosive made to harm demons
d.Nothing said he did all those slashes in that short timeframe, considering it's a manga.
and in the anime, we don't see him cutting the surroundings, so it's fair to say it's an AoE attack.
e.To support d, we don't even know which slash cut the bomb
f.Pretty sure no one upscales from Tengen other than fanon placement, and UMs don't upscale from Hashiras in any meaningful way
Sure he was getting a hard time by the 2 weakest UMs, but they're the 2 weakest UMs working together.
Sukuna couldn't beat Gojo without Mahoraga, and with Mahoraga it was an ext diff fight, same logic applies here
f.What we see are the shockwaves/sonic booms/whatever you want to call the aftermath of the slashes, and not the slashes themselves.
g.Gotouge is (not very, but still) inconsistent regarding sizes, and we can very clearly see this here:
In this calc, the explosives were put at 3 cm, but in this calc, they were put at 8 cm.
5 cm isn't really huge, but it's a 2 times difference, like come on.
The main issue with pixel scaling is that it always assumes the sizes are 100% accurate, and that causes a lot of issues
h.Considering the rest of my scaling, this is a massive outlier.
This should be all for Tengen.
Exhibit 7:Yoriichi.
7.1:His only feat other than chainscaling is slicing Muzan's pieces.
This calc is completely unreasonable(mainly the timeframe), and for many reasons.
a.We don't actually know how fast it was, and the timeframe OP gave is completely wrong on so many levels.
For one, Muzan's attack speed doesn't influence how fast he explodes
Two, explosions don't move at sound speed, the shockwaves do
Three, "great force" is still very vague.
b.This assumes what Yoriichi said was true, no way he could count to 1800 (and then count again to 1500) in such a short timeframe, while also slashing the pieces.
I'm pretty sure this is all for the contenders. Now onto the extras!
Exhibit ?:Extra stuff
This is either stuff that didn't make it into the categories above or antifeats.
"Kaigaku's / Sekido's / Zohakuten's lightning not being lightning due to not showing the same things as lightning does is composition fallacy."
For one, that's not what composition fallacy is, and having lightning features is the baseline for something being lightning.
Not to mention this disproves half the content shown above(the feats, not the debunk.)
Antifeats:
Genya uses a shotgun, and the shotgun doesn't show any differences from normal shotguns, so Supersonic+(consistent with the rest of my scaling) at best.
"Oh but his shotgun changes color"
So what? it still doesn't show any difference to a normal shotgun other than being colored
Gyomei uses sound to percieve(though i'm not gonna use this for obvious reasons.)
Muzan failed to dodge an explosion , before the drug, while also on high alert
That should be all the antifeats.
New speed rating should be:
Hypersonic(higher end) for undrugged Muzan and Yoriichi
Hypersonic(lower end) for Koku, and the marked Hashiras + Kanao, Zenitsu, Tanjiro
Supersonic+ for Genya, base Hashiras and the rest of the Demon Slayers
Transonic/Subsonic+ for mid tiers
Subsonic for low tiers in the verse
Superhuman for fodders in the verse
I hope someone actually reads this and doesn't just scroll until they find the funny numbers
Anyways i'm out, goodbye!
END
I am currently going to debunk every MHS(+) calc/character for Demon Slayer.
Terribly sorry if there is someone making a CRT already.
Exhibit 1:Zenitsu.
Most people have Zenitsu at MHS+/MHS, due to his breathing style being lightning and him being stated to move at lightning speed multiple times along the series, and that is inconsistent because:
1.1:Breathing styles don't actually summon their elements.
One could say "But it very clearly says the water is faint, so it exists"
Partially true, the water IS faint, but only to those that imagine it at all.
Regular humans would just see people fighting demons with regular-ish swords.
And it wouldn't really make much sense for a character with a breathing style based on sound to be faster than, or even comparable to a breathing style based around lightning, would it now?
1.2: People commonly mistake "like lightning", "moving fast like lightning" for "as fast as lightning".
They're not the same thing guys, one means moving in an unpredictable way, one is hyperbole and the other is just moving at Mach 1283.
That should be about it for Zenitsu.
Exhibit 2:Kaigaku.
2.1:It's a Blood Demon Art. It's not made of whatever lightning is made out of.
2.2:Thunder refers to the sound that lightning makes, and not the strike itself.
2.3:His "lightning" has no verifiable traits of real lightning, other than the fact that it burns. And even then, that's not a trait specific to lightning.
It doesn't contract muscles, it isn't sky-to-ground, it doesn't conduct through Nichirin blade metal (which, whether you like it or not, is still a metal, so it's conductive. There's nothing disproving this other than the MHS Demon Slayer narrative.), no electromagnetism manipulation has been shown, and it doesn't cause electrolysis.
That also should be all for Kaigaku, if there's anything else regarding him let me know.
Exhibit 3:Hantengu(Zohakuten, Sekido).
3.1:His lightning can be cut, which is impossible given lightning is immaterial.
3.2:His lightning isn't sky-to-ground (seeing as Zohakuten's lightning comes from the dragon heads, and Sekido's comes from the bottom of the staff) as we don't see it fall nor go up, and it's also blue/red.
3.3:I know i've stated this before, but it's a Blood Demon Art. That's a reason as to why it isn't made of the same thing as lightning.
He could very well reshape it to have (one to two) properties of lightning, and it still wouldn't be lightning. This guy couldn't have said it better.(Replace Kaigaku for Hantengu).
3.4:The soundwave was already able to travel a far enough distance before the lightning bolts finish firing, which shouldn't be possible considering one is 1283 times faster than the other.
3.4.1:Nothing implies the soundwaves were frozen while she(Mitsuri) was cutting the surroundings. This is pure headcanon.
3.4.2:The lightning already struck the ground by the time she mowed the surroundings. Even if you do argue that she did indeed hit the lightning, it's still an antifeat because it couldn't conduct through the sword and electrocute her.
3.5:It wouldn't make much sense using sound, wind, lightning and light in the same match, considering one has unquantifiable speed, one is mach 1, one is mach 1283(if what you guys make of it is true), and the other is mach 900,000(if what you guys make of it is true.).
This should be all for Hantengu and Mitsuri, moving on.
Exhibit 4:Muichiro.
textwall warning
Before you read this, know that most, if not all numbers for this calc are rounded to the nearest integer for the sake of simplicity(so the speed is actually higher than it should be)
they have been stated to be mackerel, are about as big as mackerel, and they do infact look like mackerel (see ep.53, or chap. 120 page 8).
I forgot what order i measured them in, but it doesn't matter. Let there be mackerels.
Mackerel
Mackerel
Mackerel
1.4/6.5 aspect ratio for Mackerel 1
1.8/6.8 aspect ratio for Mackerel 2
1.2/6.5 aspect ratio for Mackerel 3
On average, a 1.5/6.6
Mackerel are usually 14 inches according to this
14 inches = 36 cm
Tail height is 7.95454545455 cm, or ~8cm
Fish height to tail height ratio is 1.8/1 on average according to my measurements.
Fish height is ~4 cm
6.3(length)/1.3(width) ratio according to https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/atlantic-mackerel-e4a92741c16448e38a0be59845ab369b 's mackerel model
8.48m is muichiro's 360 degree reach according to the original killer fish calc
36 cm length, 4 cm height, 7.5cm width
8.48m is 84800 cm
84800 divided by 7.5(width of the fish) is 11306.6666667 or 11307
84800 divided by 4(height of the fish) is 21200
84800 divided by 36(length of the fish) is 2355.55555556, or 2356
Even if we divide all these numbers by half(due to me assuming 360 degree slashes), we get the following
5654 fish width-wise
1178 fish length-wise
10200 fish height-wise
This assumed the fish would be stacked neatly, and for a good reason. They're summons, and they were shown as tightly packed in the manga.
But your pros for me doing this far outnumber my pros because:
1.This assumes Muichiro perfectly cut the fish in half(Greatly reducing the amount of fish cut.).
2.This assumes that no fish are stacked behind one another, making Muichiro only get 1 fish at once(this is what i assume it should look like, and here's how he could get more fish per swing )
3.This assumes the time that Muichiro cut it in is true, because OP accounted for gravity
Hell, even if we divide the amount by 4, it still is far above the measly 10 """lowball"""
(If you're wondering, values for these are:
2550 fish height-wise
295 fish length-wise
1414 fish width-wise)
Where does this all scale? Well we have 18 answers for this, and none are MHS(note that timeframe 2 results are unusable for scaling due to it having been debunked in the thread i linked earlier debunking the Zenitsu calc, i just put it in incase someone wanted to know where it scales):
Widthwise high-end Timeframe 1: 4.24m x 7 / 0.11s = 296.8 m/s (Subsonic+)
Widthwise high-end Timeframe 2: 4.24m x 7/0.0235s =1261,4 m/s(Supersonic+)
Lengthwise high-end timeframe 1: 139.92m/ 0.11s = 1272 m/s(Supersonic+)
Lengthwise high-end timeframe 2(Please don't take this out of context):139.92m(4.24 x 7) / 0.0235 s = 5945 m/s (Hypersonic+)
Heightwise high-end timeframe 1: 16.96m(4.24 x 4)/0.11s =154.2 m/s(Subsonic)
Heightwise high-end timeframe 2: 16.96m / 0.0235s = 720.8 m/s(Supersonic)
Widthwise mid end timeframe 1: 4.24 x 2m / 0.11s = 77 m/s(Subsonic)
Widthwise mid end timeframe 2: 8.48 m /0.0235 s = 360.4 m/s(Transonic)
Lengthwise mid end timeframe 1: 4.24 x 9m / 0.11s = 346.9 m/s(Transonic)
Lengthwise mid end timeframe 2: 4.24 x 9m / 0.0235 s = 1621.8 m/s (Supersonic+)
Heightwise mid end timeframe 1: 4.24m / 0.11s = 38.5 m/s(Subsonic)
Heightwise mid end timeframe 2: 4.24m / 0.0235s = 180.2 m/s(Subsonic+)
Widthwise low end timeframe 1: 4.24m / 0.11s = 38.5 m/s(Subsonic)
Widthwise low end timeframe 2: 4.24m / 0.0235s = 180.2 m/s(Subsonic+)
Lengthwise low end timeframe 1:4.24m x 4m / 0.11s = 154.2m/s(Subsonic)
Lengthwise low end timeframe 2: 4.24 x 4m(16.96m) / 0.0235s = 720.8 m/s (Supersonic)
Heightwise low end timeframe 1: 2.12(half slash due to being able to get double the amount of fishes summoned in one slash)m / 0.11s = 19.3 m/s (Superhuman)
Heightwise low end timeframe 2: 2.12 / 0.0235s = 90.1 m/s(Subsonic)
This should be all for Muichiro.
Note that Muichiro does not upscale from Kokushibo, as he wasn't consistently able to dodge Kokushibo's attacks, and that's what killed him in the end.
Exhibit 5:Muzan.
5.1:His only feat (other than chainscaling) is blitzing a lower moon, and then the other lower moons getting impressed about his speed.
However, this is inconsistent because
a.There's no proof for them having peak human reactions, so the assumed should be 1/60, not 1/220.
b.They could very well have not been paying attention.
Exhibit 6:Tengen.
6.1:His only MHS feat is cutting all the beads before they explode, and this is wrong for numerous reasons, such as:
a.Nothing says he triggered the bombs right away/triggered the first bomb. This is further reinforced by the fact that the bombs didn't explode right away in the anime.
b.He could very well have cut all the bombs at the same time(Not that far off from a verse with slightly-super humans fighing demons with superpowers), greatly reducing the time needed to cut all of them
c.He used TNT as the default, when C4 is the default in the absence of proof for TNT being the default
TNT shouldn't even be the default, as it(the beads)'s a special explosive made to harm demons
d.Nothing said he did all those slashes in that short timeframe, considering it's a manga.
and in the anime, we don't see him cutting the surroundings, so it's fair to say it's an AoE attack.
e.To support d, we don't even know which slash cut the bomb
f.Pretty sure no one upscales from Tengen other than fanon placement, and UMs don't upscale from Hashiras in any meaningful way
Sure he was getting a hard time by the 2 weakest UMs, but they're the 2 weakest UMs working together.
Sukuna couldn't beat Gojo without Mahoraga, and with Mahoraga it was an ext diff fight, same logic applies here
f.What we see are the shockwaves/sonic booms/whatever you want to call the aftermath of the slashes, and not the slashes themselves.
g.Gotouge is (not very, but still) inconsistent regarding sizes, and we can very clearly see this here:
In this calc, the explosives were put at 3 cm, but in this calc, they were put at 8 cm.
5 cm isn't really huge, but it's a 2 times difference, like come on.
The main issue with pixel scaling is that it always assumes the sizes are 100% accurate, and that causes a lot of issues
h.Considering the rest of my scaling, this is a massive outlier.
This should be all for Tengen.
Exhibit 7:Yoriichi.
7.1:His only feat other than chainscaling is slicing Muzan's pieces.
This calc is completely unreasonable(mainly the timeframe), and for many reasons.
a.We don't actually know how fast it was, and the timeframe OP gave is completely wrong on so many levels.
For one, Muzan's attack speed doesn't influence how fast he explodes
Two, explosions don't move at sound speed, the shockwaves do
Three, "great force" is still very vague.
b.This assumes what Yoriichi said was true, no way he could count to 1800 (and then count again to 1500) in such a short timeframe, while also slashing the pieces.
I'm pretty sure this is all for the contenders. Now onto the extras!
Exhibit ?:Extra stuff
This is either stuff that didn't make it into the categories above or antifeats.
"Kaigaku's / Sekido's / Zohakuten's lightning not being lightning due to not showing the same things as lightning does is composition fallacy."
For one, that's not what composition fallacy is, and having lightning features is the baseline for something being lightning.
Not to mention this disproves half the content shown above(the feats, not the debunk.)
Antifeats:
Genya uses a shotgun, and the shotgun doesn't show any differences from normal shotguns, so Supersonic+(consistent with the rest of my scaling) at best.
"Oh but his shotgun changes color"
So what? it still doesn't show any difference to a normal shotgun other than being colored
Gyomei uses sound to percieve(though i'm not gonna use this for obvious reasons.)
Muzan failed to dodge an explosion , before the drug, while also on high alert
That should be all the antifeats.
New speed rating should be:
Hypersonic(higher end) for undrugged Muzan and Yoriichi
Hypersonic(lower end) for Koku, and the marked Hashiras + Kanao, Zenitsu, Tanjiro
Supersonic+ for Genya, base Hashiras and the rest of the Demon Slayers
Transonic/Subsonic+ for mid tiers
Subsonic for low tiers in the verse
Superhuman for fodders in the verse
I hope someone actually reads this and doesn't just scroll until they find the funny numbers
Anyways i'm out, goodbye!
END
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