The Eldest Heroic Spirit VS The Black Knight

[XxZetsuxX]

Cid Kagenou vs Moroha

Rules:

• Speed is equalised.
• Starting Distance: 10 meters
• Location: Abandoned City
• No prep time, no prior knowledge
• Cid's AP: 43 Gigatons, 100 Gigatons with point technique
• Moroha's AP: 63 Gigatons

	Cid's advantages: Better AP with Amp More Skilled Better BIQ Better Durability with amp Higher LS I AM ATOMIC Relativistic Perception Speed Better Senses Luck	Shadow -
	Moroha's advantages: Higher Stamina Better Base AP More Experienced Higher Range Better Hax More Techniques Higher IQ Infinite Speed Attack	Hero -

 

[Godsatoshi23]

I think Moroha wins this. Can't think of single way how cid can counter Moroha's Mars.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I think Moroha wins this. Can't think of single way how cid can counter Moroha's Mars.

He predicts

 

[Godsatoshi23]

He predicts

Even Moroha can predict it, he has the experience of two past lives, in both of which he was known as the strongest and most skillful warrior in the world. Besides, when the concept of distance is removed, it doesn't matter. If I recall correctly, there are feats where Moroha doesn't need to strike in one singular direction, he can simply slash, and the attack will reach the opponent even if they are in a different dimension.

Also, It's not just as just predicting the attack will make you able to react to an infinite speed, unless there's already infinite reaction speed.

It can ignore durability on a conceptual level too.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Even Moroha can predict it, he has the experience of two past lives, in both of which he was known as the strongest and most skillful warrior in the world.

Cid is also that except he has only 2 lives, when he was 9 years old, he was already at the top of the verse

He can cover a gap of 1000 years in seconds, like when he copied at a glance Epsilon's magic slash which is something unthinkable even to vampires who have said years and knowledge reflecting that

Cid is 16 years now, imagine the difference

Besides, when the concept of distance is removed, it doesn't matter. If I recall correctly, there are feats where Moroha doesn't need to strike in one singular direction, he can simply slash, and the attack will reach the opponent even if they are in a different dimension.

Uh, I don't see the attack pulling a venuzdonoa that if you miss you still get hit (iirc that's causality hax) so Cid can still dodge if he knows the swinging motion

He has an attack that works the same way (ranged slash attack like IAA and invisible slashes that he copied from Epsilon)

Also, It's not just as just predicting the attack will make you able to react to an infinite speed, unless there's already infinite reaction speed.

Predicting means dodging before the opponent does anything lol

It can ignore durability on a conceptual level too.

It's useless if it doesn't hit, Cid can also turn himself into mist which might negate the entire move itself

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also there's this;

Is this his starting move? if not and they go for CQC, what is his response to someone who is unfathomably more skilled than him?

Cid can attack outside of perception and make feints that make the opponent hallucinate

And assuming Moroha realizes he ain't doing anything and decides to pull Mars, can he even back up fast enough to not be interrupted (assuming the move has a charge up phase)

Edit: There's also Cid's ANPR and Info Analysis resistence that can backfire his predictions and analysis

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Cid is also that except he has only 2 lives, when he was 9 years old, he was already at the top of the verse

He can cover a gap of 1000 years in seconds, like when he copied at a glance Epsilon's magic slash which is something unthinkable even to vampires who have said years and knowledge reflecting that

Cid is 16 years now, imagine the difference

Unlike Cid, Moroha already possesses the accumulated combat experience of the two strongest beings in history (his two past lives) . As Flaga, he fought in wars for decades against immortal beings, world-ending threats. He fought literally countless battles.

Moroha simply remembers his past lives to access a level of martial arts and magic that fundamentally rewrote the rules of his world. Furthermore, Moroha possesses the ability to instantly master and surpass anything he remembers, effectively giving him a skill that adapts instantly.

Uh, I don't see the attack pulling a venuzdonoa that if you miss you still get hit (iirc that's causality hax) so Cid can still dodge if he knows the swinging motion

Yeah, this, I am not sure. Since it's been a long time I read this series.

It's useless if it doesn't hit, Cid can also turn himself into mist which might negate the entire move itself

As I mentioned above both are very skilled fighters so it debatable I guess.
Also, do we consider interacting with concept less then when interacting to mist?
Moroha also has a spell Ouroboros which summons a localized sea of the abyss that drowns and consumes everything it touches, including concepts and energy.
And, his aforementioned Cocytus spell freezes at absolute zero. Mist is still matter (water vapor/magic vapor), the moment Cid turns into mist, Moroha's AoE magic would instantly freeze the mist solid, trapping or shattering him.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Also there's this;

Is this his starting move? if not and they go for CQC, what is his response to someone who is unfathomably more skilled than him?

Cid can attack outside of perception and make feints that make the opponent hallucinate

Moroha uses an advanced technique called Rikaku (Inner Eyes). He does not rely on his physical eyesight when fighting, he reads the flow of life force and magic energy directly. That's why Hallucinations and visual feints are completely bypassed because Moroha tracks the literal energy of his opponent's soul.

Edit: Moroha fought Tanaka Tarou, an S-Rank assassin from the Six Wings nicknamed "Invisible." Tanaka's ability literally erased his existence from the world's perception, he could not be seen, heard, or sensed even by magical or Prana-sensing means. He was functionally non-existent until his attack landed. Yet, Moroha countered it with his battle experience and inner eyes.

And assuming Moroha realizes he ain't doing anything and decides to pull Mars, can he even back up fast enough to not be interrupted (assuming the move has a charge up phase)

Moroha can fight in extreme speed while exchanging thousands of blows a second, while simultaneously using his free hand (or even his mind/multiple voices) to write magical runes in the air to charge up.

Edit: There's also Cid's ANPR and Info Analysis resistence that can backfire his predictions and analysis

Moroha's fighting style is reactive to the literal flow of energy and Mana rather than a logical calculation of the opponent's "stats,". If Cid attacks, Moroha's body reacts perfectly based on billions of past-life battle experiences.

Also, Moroha has Invulnerability by manipulating space-time to make him invincible for split moment. Taking no damage at that moment.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Unlike Cid, Moroha already possesses the accumulated combat experience of the two strongest beings in history (his two past lives) . As Flaga, he fought in wars for decades against immortal beings, world-ending threats. He fought literally countless battles.

Moroha simply remembers his past lives to access a level of martial arts and magic that fundamentally rewrote the rules of his world. Furthermore, Moroha possesses the ability to instantly master and surpass anything he remembers, effectively giving him a skill that adapts instantly.

We need skill feats so i can have a rough idea on what he can do, this is to vague

As I mentioned above both are very skilled fighters so it debatable I guess.

Yes, but we need feats for CQC

• Cid can dodge danmaku that are mach 1 with microscopic movements while aim dodging and walking
• Cid evolves mid-fight, for example, when he dodges, the first dodge is 1 full step and the next dodge is half a step
• Cid is able to cut a letter up to particulate level, making it basically disappear
• Superior to Lambda who could cut all Rose's clothes without damaging her.
• Was able to block the sharp part of a blade with the tip of a pen
• He is able to purposely only cut the topmost layer of the skin of the opponent, without going deeper, and leave veins untouched
• Cid was able to avoid hitting any raindrop with his sword in a storm
• He is capable of dodging attacks with such precision the blades slide on his skin
• Can backfire ANPR, Info Analysis, Senses and Instinctive Action
• Is far above people with 1000 years of skill and experience with knowledge reflecting that (several no diffs) in both MA and swordsmanship

From what i am seeing so far in Moroha's profile, i don't see him landing a hit on Cid

Also, do we consider interacting with concept less then when interacting to mist?

Not sure?

Moroha also has a spell Ouroboros which summons a localized sea of the abyss that drowns and consumes everything it touches, including concepts and energy.

Cid has flight which counters this

And, his aforementioned Cocytus spell freezes at absolute zero. Mist is still matter (water vapor/magic vapor), the moment Cid turns into mist, Moroha's AoE magic would instantly freeze the mist solid, trapping or shattering him.

Relativistic perception speed allows Cid to turn back to normal in time

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Moroha uses an advanced technique called Rikaku (Inner Eyes). He does not rely on his physical eyesight when fighting, he reads the flow of life force and magic energy directly. That's why Hallucinations and visual feints are completely bypassed because Moroha tracks the literal energy of his opponent's soul.

The feints are not supernatural, not sure if it works?

Edit: Moroha fought Tanaka Tarou, an S-Rank assassin from the Six Wings nicknamed "Invisible." Tanaka's ability literally erased his existence from the world's perception, he could not be seen, heard, or sensed even by magical or Prana-sensing means. He was functionally non-existent until his attack landed. Yet, Moroha countered it with his battle experience and inner eyes.

Fair

Moroha can fight in extreme speed while exchanging thousands of blows a second, while simultaneously using his free hand (or even his mind/multiple voices) to write magical runes in the air to charge up.

Cid can attack with danmaku (Tens of thousands slime blades) which causes even more pressure than what you said (assuming it doesn't reach up to this number)

Moroha's fighting style is reactive to the literal flow of energy and Mana rather than a logical calculation of the opponent's "stats,". If Cid attacks, Moroha's body reacts perfectly based on billions of past-life battle experiences.

Same with Cid, the longer the fight, the more skilled he gets and ANPR and other stuff stops losing effect on him

Also, Moroha has Invulnerability by manipulating space-time to make him invincible for split moment. Taking no damage at that moment.

IAA lasts longer than this

 

[Godsatoshi23]

We need skill feats so i can have a rough idea on what he can do, this is to vague

Yes, but we need feats for CQC

• Cid can dodge danmaku that are mach 1 with microscopic movements while aim dodging and walking
• Cid evolves mid-fight, for example, when he dodges, the first dodge is 1 full step and the next dodge is half a step
• Cid is able to cut a letter up to particulate level, making it basically disappear
• Superior to Lambda who could cut all Rose's clothes without damaging her.
• Was able to block the sharp part of a blade with the tip of a pen
• He is able to purposely only cut the topmost layer of the skin of the opponent, without going deeper, and leave veins untouched
• Cid was able to avoid hitting any raindrop with his sword in a storm
• He is capable of dodging attacks with such precision the blades slide on his skin
• Can backfire ANPR, Info Analysis, Senses and Instinctive Action
• Is far above people with 1000 years of skill and experience with knowledge reflecting that (several no diffs) in both MA and swordsmanship

From what i am seeing so far in Moroha's profile, i don't see him landing a hit on Cid

I mean yeah we can match up the skills I guess. But not sure there's any supporter to collect from Moroha's side. I myself read 4-5 years ago, so I would have to look at it from the start and there are 22 volumes

Then again Moroha has many wide area attacks which doesn't really need skills to hit the target.

Like Cocytus which can freeze him at absolute zero which cid doesn't have resistance yet.

And since Moroha possess infinitely expanding pool of Prana and Mana from his two past lives, a Heroic King and a Dark Lord, virtually all of his spells, even basic ones like the Step-1 wind spell Breeze Blade, can be supercharged into wide-area natural disasters.

Cid has flight which counters this

Moroha can fly too. And he can control all his attacks.

Relativistic perception speed allows Cid to turn back to normal in time

Moroha has countered those who had speed of light perception yet they failed to counter this.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I mean yeah we can match up the skills I guess. But not sure there's any supporter to collect from Moroha's side. I myself read 4-5 years ago, so I would have to look at it from the start and there are 22 volumes

Ah, GG

Then again Moroha has many wide area attacks which doesn't really need skills to hit the target.a

Like Cocytus which can freeze him at absolute zero which cid doesn't have resistance yet.

Cid can counter this with this;

• Vector Manipulation (Cid is able to change the vectors of magical attacks coming at him, deflecting them)

And since Moroha possess infinitely expanding pool of Prana and Mana from his two past lives, a Heroic King and a Dark Lord, virtually all of his spells, even basic ones like the Step-1 wind spell Breeze Blade, can be supercharged into wide-area natural disasters.


Moroha can fly too. And he can control all his attacks.

Same as above

Moroha has countered those who had speed of light perception yet they failed to counter this.

Thats not speed equal though, he is transonic or supersonic rn

 

[Godsatoshi23]

The feints are not supernatural, not sure if it works?

It doesn't have to be supernatural. When he literally counter assassins which I explained below.

Cid can attack with danmaku (Tens of thousands slime blades) which causes even more pressure than what you said (assuming it doesn't reach up to this number)

Moroha by Kurikara can envelope himself in Taiji, he gains absolute offense and defense. Taiji passively erases incoming magic and physical attacks upon contact, completely nullifying them.

Same with Cid, the longer the fight, the more skilled he gets and ANPR and other stuff stops losing effect on him

If we go by who can last longer, Moroha as infinite stamina.

IAA lasts longer than this

Moroha can re-apply this continuously with no time lag and with his infinite mana he will never get tired using it.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

It doesn't have to be supernatural. When he literally counter assassins which I explained below.

Aight

Moroha by Kurikara can envelope himself in Taiji, he gains absolute offense and defense. Taiji passively erases incoming magic and physical attacks upon contact, completely nullifying them.

Cid resists magic supression and nullification;

• Power Nullification & Power Absorption (Can break out from his magic being blocked and absorbed at his school Initially was unable to use magic in the Sanctuary, but eventually broke out from his magic being blocked)

If we go by who can last longer, Moroha as infinite stamina.

It's not gonna last that long imo, Cid will eventually pull IAA

Moroha can re-apply this continuously with no time lag and with his infinite mana he will never get tired using it.

He will get one shotted immeadiately the moment it wears off if he is in the middle of it, it's High 6-A after all

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Cid can counter this with this;

• Vector Manipulation (Cid is able to change the vectors of magical attacks coming at him, deflecting them)

That's not how it works here. The character has to have the feat of interacting with absolute zero if not its considered as NLF.

Thats not speed equal though, he is transonic or supersonic rn

We are talking physical speed aren't we? Attack and perception speed with hax doesn't work like that.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

That's not how it works here. The character has to have the feat of interacting with absolute zero if not its considered as NLF.

It's magic he is using no? Unless magic from his verse have the exact same properties as the real thing

We are talking physical speed aren't we? Attack and perception speed with hax doesn't work like that.

Yes, but in Cid's vision he is completely statued, the moment he sees he is performing ice related stuff, he will imediately turn it off

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Cid resists magic supression and nullification;

• Power Nullification & Power Absorption (Can break out from his magic being blocked and absorbed at his school Initially was unable to use magic in the Sanctuary, but eventually broke out from his magic being blocked)

Fair enough they can counter each other but due to Moroha the potency will be infinite, so Moroha can can apply constantly.

It's not gonna last that long imo, Cid will eventually pull IAA

I mean in the mean time Moroha can strike with his Mars too which ignores durability and distance.

He will get one shotted immeadiately the moment it wears off if he is in the middle of it, it's High 6-A after all

Not really, Moroha would be faster because of infinite attack speed which is based on hax.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

It's magic he is using no? Unless magic from his verse have the exact same properties as the real thing

Nope. Cid has to have feat with interacting Absolute Zero Or else it's NLF.

Yes, but in Cid's vision he is completely statued, the moment he sees he is performing ice related stuff, he will imediately turn it off

I mean Moroha countered those who had speed of light perception in his verse. And cid's only Relativistic.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Fair enough they can counter each other but due to Moroha the potency will be infinite, so Moroha can can apply constantly.

Not sure if it works like that.. He can't counter an attack that is High 6-A (for example)

I mean in the mean time Moroha can strike with his Mars too which ignores durability and distance.

Cid is not immobile, he can move too

Not really, Moroha would be faster because of infinite attack speed which is based on hax.

If he is in the middle of the attack, the moment the invicibility wears off, he immeadiately gets desintegrated lol, im not following wdym here?

Nope. Cid has to have feat with interacting Absolute Zero Or else it's NLF.

Again, if he uses MAGIC, and Cid can redirect MAGIC, then it works, same properties and everything, NLF would be if Moroha used something other than magic to produce said effects

I mean Moroha countered those who had speed of light perception in his verse. And cid's only Relativistic.

Because he was relative to them or superior

In this match, he is transonic or supersonic, while Cid is relativistics, there's no "counter" here

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Not sure if it works like that.. He can't counter an attack that is High 6-A (for example)

High 6-A is only for IIA. We were talking about danmaku here iirc.

Cid is not immobile, he can move too

While charging IIA?

If he is in the middle of the attack, the moment the invicibility wears off, he immeadiately gets desintegrated lol, im not following wdym here?

Not really, Moroha can instantly charge with no time lag, I said it before.

Again, if he uses MAGIC, and Cid can redirect MAGIC, then it works, same properties and everything, NLF would be if Moroha used something other than magic to produce said effects

As I said it doesn't work like that. Because the moment you try to redirect it will already be Absolute zero. And cid doesn't have resistance to it.

Because he was relative to them or superior.
In this match, he is transonic or supersonic, while Cid is relativistics, there's no "counter" here

Transonic? That's combat speed. I am talking about attack speed and perception. Just like how cid is relativistics with perception.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

High 6-A is only for IIA. We were talking about danmaku here iirc.

Ah, then fair

While charging IIA?

Yes

Not really, Moroha can instantly charge with no time lag, I said it before.

I meant like, the moment the ability wears off

As I said it doesn't work like that. Because the moment you try to redirect it will already be Absolute zero. And cid doesn't have resistance to it.

So he conjures the magic already in solid ice?

Transonic? That's combat speed. I am talking about attack speed and perception. Just like how cid is relativistics with perception.

Travel speed actually, Mars is the only thing with a different speed

Moroha is transonic or supersonic in everything else, meaning, he will be a statue to anything he does to Cid outside of mars speed itself

 

[Godsatoshi23]

I meant like, the moment the ability wears off

Then it would be just pure assumptions? He can simply use it when cid attacks with IIA. And the with his Mars instantly strike at conceptual level, and it's just not a singular slash. It has the power to destroy the whole world instantly too.

So he conjures the magic already in solid ice?

Magic never stays in intangible state. Before it even completes the spells, they already have formed it's attacks.

Travel speed actually, Mars is the only thing with a different speed

Moroha is transonic or supersonic in everything else, meaning, he will be a statue to anything he does to Cid outside of mars speed itself

Hmm can I get the link where speed with magic got accepted? It's seems too vague to me.

Edit: I mean the CRT

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Then it would be just pure assumptions? He can simply use it when cid attacks with IIA. And the with his Mars instantly strike at conceptual level, and it's just not a singular slash. It has the power to destroy the whole world instantly too.

He dodges, again it's not venuzdonoa, if the attack misses, it misses, it doesn't teleport back to Cid, you haven't showned me scan of that yet

Magic never stays in intangible state. Before it even completes the spells, they already have formed it's attacks.

Cid redirected an already formed attack wdym?

Hmm can I get the link where speed with magic got accepted? It's seems too vague to me.

Wdym?

In EIS, Magic amps all stats and senses

 

[Godsatoshi23]

He dodges, again it's not venuzdonoa, if the attack misses, it misses, it doesn't teleport back to Cid, you haven't showned me scan of that yet

I didn't said it get back teleported? I said when cid is using IIA he can't move.

Cid redirected an already formed attack wdym?

Did he do that with Absolute zero? There's is reason we have resistance section you know?

Wdym?

In EIS, Magic amps all stats and senses

Ah it's applied without CRT? The feat is questionable to use it then. For relativistics

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I didn't said it get back teleported? I said when cid is using IIA he can't move.

But he can though, i am pretty sure i said he can?

Did he do that with Absolute zero? There's is reason we have resistance section you know?

Resistences is about having an ability not work on you

Redirect doesn't require you to resist as you aren't getting hit by it in the first place

Ah it's applied without CRT? The feat is questionable to use it then.

I still don't know what you are trying to say here..?

Are you saying magic doesn't increases stats? Elaborate pls

 

[Godsatoshi23]

But he can though, i am pretty sure i said he can?

Scan?

Resistences is about having an ability not work on you

Redirect doesn't require you to resist as you aren't getting hit by it in the first place

That's not how it works. It would be already in state of absolute zero, cid has to have feat of doing it or else its NLF. You can try asking others if you don't believe it.

I still don't know what you are trying to say here..?

Are you saying magic doesn't increases stats? Elaborate pls

I mean in which CRT relativistics speed got accepted.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Scan?

Here and here

That's not how it works. It would be already in state of absolute zero, cid has to have feat of doing it or else its NLF. You can try asking others if you don't believe it.

Are you saying his absolute zero already spawns on Cid?

I mean in which CRT relativistics speed got accepted.

It's a calc that got accepted

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Here and here

I never played game so I wasn't sure since in both LN and Anime he can't or doesn't move when using it.

Are you saying his absolute zero already spawns on Cid?

Yeah

It's a calc that got accepted

You should probably make a CRT for it. It's against the rule applying without CRT iirc.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I never played game so I wasn't sure since in both LN and Anime he can't or doesn't move when using it.

Anime isn't canon to the game, manga and LN

Yeah

Cocytus: A forbidden spell and an Origin of which Moroha is the sole holder and used in his past life as Shuu Saura. It is an ice spell that is unleashed throughout the environment freezing everything in its path, the temperature drops dramatically, everything freezes and everything turns white, everything is permanently frozen. Moroha used it to just briefly stop Edward, and if it wasn't for Maya's ability, everything would have been frozen forever. Even so, this ability caused the weather to change to snowy, even if it was summer. In his past life as Shuu Saura, he used this spell to freeze entire nations

It's not according to the profile

You should probably make a CRT for it. It's against the rule applying without CRT iirc.

Bro..?? This is the CRT that got the calc accepted

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Anime isn't canon to the game, manga and LN

I know I said both LN and anime.

Cocytus: A forbidden spell and an Origin of which Moroha is the sole holder and used in his past life as Shuu Saura. It is an ice spell that is unleashed throughout the environment freezing everything in its path, the temperature drops dramatically, everything freezes and everything turns white, everything is permanently frozen. Moroha used it to just briefly stop Edward, and if it wasn't for Maya's ability, everything would have been frozen forever. Even so, this ability caused the weather to change to snowy, even if it was summer. In his past life as Shuu Saura, he used this spell to freeze entire nations

It's not according to the profile

I mean when unleashed it's not in the form of magic but like natural disasters. You can only redirect if it's in the form of pure magic or those which cid as feats of.

Bro..?? This is the CRT that got the calc accepted

Oh my bad I thought it's calculation link.
Honestly there wasn't any knowledgeable member of the series.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I know I said both LN and anime.

Mhm

I mean when unleashed it's not in the form of magic but like natural disasters. You can only redirect if it's in the form of pure magic.

A natural disaster in the form of magic..

The magic in the verse does not have the same properties as real things

Lightning doesn't behave like one, Fire doesn't act like one and so on

Oh my bad I thought it's calculation link.
Honestly there wasn't any knowledgeable member of the series.

It's fine

 

[Godsatoshi23]

What I think about the current speed rating for relativistics is it's flawed and need revisions

 

[XxZetsuxX]

What I think about the current speed rating for relativistics is it's flawed and need revisions

Based on?

 

[Godsatoshi23]

A natural disaster in the form of magic..

The magic in the verse does not have the same properties as real things

Lightning doesn't behave like one, Fire doesn't act like one and so on

Again you can ask others if you don't believe it. Otherwise it's going in circles.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Again you can ask others if you don't believe it. Otherwise it's going in circles.

This is something you need to prove actually

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Based on?

It's because it's not really speed. Well, I will ask someone I know about it and probably will make revision in future.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

This is something you need to prove actually

That's what I am asking as well, is there a feat of cid interacting with absolute zero?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

That's what I am asking as well, is there a feat of cid interacting with absolute zero?

You first need to prove that magic behaves as the real thing

If it is, Cid cannot redirect, if it isn't he can, it all comes to you

 

[Godsatoshi23]

You first need to prove that magic behaves as the real thing

If it is, Cid cannot redirect, if it isn't he can, it all comes to you

It doesn't matter whether it's magic or real thing, you can't assumingly think he can redirect all the magic attacks. This is NLF.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

I will just wait for others input now