Wannabe Nasuverse Tier 0 Wank CRT(Re:Creators)

[AlipheeseXIV]

Its true

L EZA banana bros better

 

[Random-Helper323]

It's been requested for this to be closed as a troll thread. Any thoughts or objections?

@Vesxpura

 

[Vesxpura]

Literally every statement about it is an anti-feat; the sheer amount of implicit headcanons you’d need for this to pass is so ungodly high you might as well make a new series

You cant call implicit inferences “headcanon” if they’re properly derivable from the text. That’s just interpretation. The antifeats are just characters who aren’t omniscient making limited or understated. The series never states that relational descriptions from lower levels are completely inapplicable. It only denies internal structure being determinable those are different things. As long as the claim is about its relation to what proceeds from it rather than about its intrinsic composition there shouldnt be a problem Yes i know what this entails, and i never claimed that its exactly the one, but rather structurally like it.

Being inspired by something is not the same thing as being something. Plenty of works crimp off of or use cosmologies inspired by stuff like Christianity, Buddhism, or Hinduism without following any of the principles that make those cosmologies Tier 0.

Thats why i never claimed it specifically is that thing(Also we have no way of knowing he was inspired by things of that kind), i simply stated that its functionally the same, hence why i gave it in the context section to show that this idea portrayed in the series already exists outside of the series.

Reading their proposal for the Nous the issue I have is that they go deep into word salad and don't actually explain why anything is relevant. The Nous itself doesn't meet the qualifications for High 1-A+ as nothing presented shows that they conceptualize a realm composed all something containing all permutations of the Three Laws of Thought.

If the argument itself isnt a problem then the conclusion should follow. Imagination is the rational ground for the origin of all worlds and all worlds aswell. And since we know worlds originate from possibilities this entails that all possibilities originate from imagination. And as i established(which im not sure whether u have a problem with) imagination would be being. and would ground all things and all possible things that participate in being. Also just for clarification, im arguing for embodying such framework not creating arbitrarily large worlds.

The Abyss I'm not sure about. It being 0 is completely reliant on the Nous being High 1-A+. Meaning that I also don't think its 0 since the Nous isn't High 1-A+ in my view. Not helping is the OP saying:

Depends on what you mean by high 1-A+, if ur only referring to all possible worlds, then i disagree, even assuming thats not the case, the abyss is still beyond the distinction between the unity of imagination and the manyness of lesser reality, it still lacks determination. its scaling is not contingent on what tier imagination is. But if ur referring to the collection of all qualities then yes i would say its transcendence is reliant on imagination being h1-A+ as thats literally necessary for tier 0.

This, with the scans saying the Abyss gave other people power of creation and is part of a chain, which doesn't really fit the principals associated with a Monad

I dont know what ur trying to argue here. theres no issue with tier 0s being portrayed in a analogous hierarchy. I already addressed this with supernova, people can simultaneously have the power and it isnt giving anything, its imagination thinking of itself and letting the real world participate in it.

What the actual scan shows:

its relevant no matter how they portray it, and there has to be a reason why it was portrayed as such which is what was analysed and a conclusion was formed.

It's been requested for this to be closed as a troll thread. Any thoughts or objections?

Theres no grounds for this. I agree the title implies the thread is a troll, However an argument lacking substance is no grounds for being classified as a "troll". otherwise literally all unsuccessful threads would fall under the same category.

Sorry this took a while, was busy with irl stuff

 

[SuperNova55555]

You cant call implicit inferences “headcanon” if they’re properly derivable from the text. That’s just interpretation.

Sooooo which part of the text implies that all predicates of the abyss are used with the knowledge that they are false again?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Thats why i never claimed it specifically is that thing(Also we have no way of knowing he was inspired by things of that kind), i simply stated that its functionally the same

The problem is that you're trying to use Neoplatonism as a pathway to Tier 0 but the material lacks the foundational statements that can make Neoplatonism Tier 0. The only way you can get it there is to assume a connection that isn't actually shown.

If it is Neoplatonism then where's all the Neoplatonic concepts? Where's foundational principals of The One? Where's the logic where the Mind is above the Soul? Where's the pathway where people transcend the material world to join the One? Where's the evidence that the Abyss is the origin of all that's Good and Evil is the absence of the Abyss?

Like just because some things vibe with an outline of Neoplatonism doesn't make it Neoplatonism. It's why not every mention of the Tao is Tier 0 and why not ever work featuring Buddhism is Tier 0. You have to explicitly show that the works operate on the same cosmology and you haven't done so. You haven't even shown that it is Neoplatonic in the first place, you just named dropped it and then said they should be similar.

If the argument itself isnt a problem then the conclusion should follow. Imagination is the rational ground for the origin of all worlds and all worlds aswell.

It's not without direct showings. Being 1-A is the only possible end you can get and that's assuming a degree of un-interaction between imagination and base reality. Being imagination would never be enough on it's own for High 1-A+. You have to showcase that it should logically embody the Three Laws of Thought and you haven't done so.

Depends on what you mean by high 1-A+

There's only one tier of High 1-A+. It's either creating a High 1-A+ realm or embodying the concept of one. In either case the Nous doesn't qualify.

its scaling is not contingent on what tier imagination is. But if ur referring to the collection of all qualities then yes i would say its transcendence is reliant on imagination being h1-A+ as thats literally necessary for tier 0.

The Abyss lacks the foundational statements showings it's the Monad, beyond interaction, and is emination of all things. It's why the core pillar of it being 0 is due to you arguing the Nous is High 1-A+

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

Does she scale to it or nah

Tier 0 was promised to her 3000 years ago, shush-

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

In all seriousness, though, if you'd want to argue on Tier High 1-A/Tier 0 stuff, there's another way- even though it's more in the memey and sarcastic phase.

And that is the canonity of IRL Franchise within Re:Creators, such as how Frank Belknap Long's Hounds of Tindalos is a shown franchise in the verse, as well as other work of Rei Hiroe, Black Lagoon. Why not say that Ei Aoki's other works wouldn't be included? One-sided crossovers are allowed within the series too anyway. /j

 

[Reiner04]

I disagree given Qawsedf reason

 

[Apotheosis69]

We have Two Staff confirmed Disagreeing: Qawsedf and Reiner.

Anyone else?

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Fyi 2 is already a lost cause for this thread.

 

[BoastJr]

Fam even ultima isn't taking this seriously

This Thread cannot be salvaged as of now

 

[Vesxpura]

Sooooo which part of the text implies that all predicates of the abyss are used with the knowledge that they are false again?

Characters arent unlimited, they make specific claims. These claims cant be true if the abyss lacking information is true.

The problem is that you're trying to use Neoplatonism as a pathway to Tier 0 but the material lacks the foundational statements that can make Neoplatonism Tier 0. The only way you can get it there is to assume a connection that isn't actually shown.

I disagree, lets say i got rid of all the neoplatonic language present in the argument. the substance does not change except for a few things which i explicitly stated i was going to interpret this way due to the context(like imagination not being numerically identical to its parts). and im simply using that substance with relations to already established philosophical ideas to create a contextual backing.

If it is Neoplatonism then where's all the Neoplatonic concepts? Where's foundational principals of The One? Where's the logic where the Mind is above the Soul? Where's the pathway where people transcend the material world to join the One? Where's the evidence that the Abyss is the origin of all that's Good and Evil is the absence of the Abyss?

I never claimed it IS neoplatonism just its structurally similar. Its why i also quoted ultima saying i dont need to perfectly reproduce such but rather prove sufficient qualities are met which was what it was intended to do. I already explained why the abyss lacks predicates and is before imagination. It should be heavily implied that imagination is intellect since it uses intelligibility and rational to do anything(i can also prove it manages the rational of the ones directly connected to it if necessary). Ive shown that all things return to the abyss. The last part is just plotinus trying to resolve the problem of evil, i wouldnt say its relevant to tier 0.

It's not without direct showings. Being 1-A is the only possible end you can get and that's assuming a degree of un-interaction between imagination and base reality. Being imagination would never be enough on it's own for High 1-A+. You have to showcase that it should logically embody the Three Laws of Thought and you haven't done so.

Im sorry what? i think ur misunderstanding the claim here. imagination IS the entity, it is what the series knows it by. i just shortened it since saying imaginative force is a huge pain. And the titles given are literally just me trying to make it more appealing
what im actually claiming is that imagination is existence itself, its essence is its existence and since information is essence and exists prior to actualisation, the distinction between essence and existence is clear for beings that imagination creates. and therefore by nature all possible worlds would have to be dependent on existence itself or in this case imaginative force. Now lets say my original claim of it qualifying for tier 0 was true. then by nature it would automatically qualify for the previous tier as the definition for tier 0 establishes transcendence and containment of all possible qualities in h1-A+.

There's only one tier of High 1-A+. It's either creating a High 1-A+ realm or embodying the concept of one. In either case the Nous doesn't qualify.

Yes and within that tier many things are said about it and it has many results. What i said was if h1-A+ was being treated as how tier 0 treats it, then yes the dependence on it is necessary, but if ur just talking about logically possible worlds then no its not dependent on the notion of possible worlds. while it does seem counterintuitive, the distinction is important.

The Abyss lacks the foundational statements showings it's the Monad, beyond interaction, and is emination of all things. It's why the core pillar of it being 0 is due to you arguing the Nous is High 1-A+

I showed and explained inferentially why it would qualify. There is nothing established that is nor could be beyond it. It is simple since it lacks composition 1, and is beyond the one-many duality possessed in the lesser levels of creation. such as imaginative force. If we strictly needed to perfectly reproduce modal realism, then i would agree High 1-A+ is not possible for imaginative force, and therefore according to you "my" foundation for tier 0 is a bust. But thats not the case, the one-many duality represented by it still holds and is significant for tier 0(in this sense)
So its not because the imagination is High 1-A+ but rather it transcends imagination and would conclusively qualify. Imagination being High 1-A+ is just a consequent/possible consequent.

In all seriousness, though, if you'd want to argue on Tier High 1-A/Tier 0 stuff, there's another way- even though it's more in the memey and sarcastic phase.

And that is the canonity of IRL Franchise within Re:Creators, such as how Frank Belknap Long's Hounds of Tindalos is a shown franchise in the verse, as well as other work of Rei Hiroe, Black Lagoon. Why not say that Ei Aoki's other works wouldn't be included? One-sided crossovers are allowed within the series too anyway. /j

It doesnt work that way. Crossovers are very controversial in relation to scaling

We have Two Staff confirmed Disagreeing: Qawsedf and Reiner.

Anyone else?

Ig you could put ultima too, but he hasent really made a clear statement.

Fyi 2 is already a lost cause for this thread.

i wouldnt say so.

 

[Thunderman101]

Snip

 

[SuperNova55555]

Characters arent unlimited, they make specific claims. These claims cant be true if the abyss lacking information is true.

Hyper-noesis is when no IM2

 

[Qawsedf234]

I wrote a response, but it would be unfair to post it due to the next part:

Ig you could put ultima too, but he hasent really made a clear statement.

Two staff has said no, and every other staff member has memed on this thread. It's been rejected and I'm closing this now.