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A win is a win even from a retirement home.
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
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I would just assume that the Emeralds, with their variable level of power, just always scale above the base cast. We've seen Sonic fight previous Super-level threats before, so Sonic reaching more modern instances of this power don't feel too out-there given we've seen it be done before and for the longest time it's been referred to as an "Outlier". It feels like similar arguments of 1-C base scaling get the same old treatment. I agree that it shouldn't be that hard. But Sonic's had been given this particular treatment throughout the years when it comes to its scaling that many other verses do not get. We do upscaling for certain things here, but not for others because it's seen as too high for the base cast despite having blatant showings and at least some context behind them.
Like the Death Egg Robot from Forces, which was powered by the Phantom Ruby. Which was able to fight a post-Gens Classic Super Sonic when used by Phantom King (which I still disagree with some saying Classic somehow lost the scaling he had from Gens due to "time correcting itself", yet suddenly being able to match Modern threats as soon as he takes a step into the future in Forces). Unless I'm meant to believe that Modern Eggman somehow did a worse job than his Classic counterpart in handling the thing despite having far more resources and having made far more impressive inventions along with more unique usages of the Ruby. And Sonic, Classic, and Original the Character being able to fight that robot in BASE. Even if the work was spread between three people, that's still 1-C. People can say that Infinite doesn't scale to previous Super-tier characters, but Eggman, who has the REAL Phantom Ruby, definitely would.
Or base characters with the Void being able to tank attacks from and react to Void in Shuffle (they don't even need rings to tank these hits, by the way. I've checked the gameplay).
And don't get me started on, again, blatant Immeasurable speed scaling in Gens that gets treated as an exclusive to White Space for some odd reason.
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The first "idw is canon" statement as far as I know came in Japanese, it was Iizuka who said it. He was the one who came in interview and said "With the exception of the Sonic movies, I want all Sonic products to take place in one world as a single and connected continuity" and it was only after it that word came out about IDW Sonic being canon, and even Flynn only said in the sense of like "If Iizuka said, who am I to oppose my boss".
ShakeResounding
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None that are really blatant, no.
"You kids these days are lucky. I remember the time where it was only Sonic for a decade."A win is a win even from a retirement home.
"Sure grandpa, now let's get you to bed."
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If shippers ship characters in annoying way its their fault :V
Ghengiroo115
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I’m not sure why Phantom King would scale to the Time Eater when Super Sonic’s power varies.
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Still very goodly written tho
TheStinkeer
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It's like, the only explanation and it's consistent across both games where Gens had the timeline literally not exist anymore and was all kinds of messed up and Forces had the Phantom Ruby messing with time and space, which naturally makes the timeline a little messed up. Classic Sonic would also go on to repeat those same adventures his Modern counterpart had.
I know some people would point to this as Sonic characters just get ever so slightly stronger but we've had a lot of massive increases in strength in the series. For example, Eggman made like 3 mechs that can fight and stagger Super Sonic yet Base Sonic went on to defeat mechs stronger than them
Really? Do you have a video of that? /genq
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Ehhhhh its ok enough.
There are some good arcs but at this points its a bit too much more whatever-ness than good.
Ghengiroo115
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Genuinely I don’t understand why people are so adamantly against IDW being canon. They act like it being canon would “poison” the game lore because of its characterisation issues and whatnot, even though half of the actual games have similar issues.
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Amy Rose
MysticMania
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IDW ( the entire company ) traveling back in time to ensure that SEGA doesn't let Sonic Team acknowledge the moon being blown up at any point at all whatsoever after SA2
MysticMania
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and also making sure there are 2 moons in that one Zero Gravity stage, just for fun
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You don't understand, Spirall Hill Village is too much of a game breaker
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If you actuallt count... pretty sure there are like, 5 moons in Sonic's Earth lol
MysticMania
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the moons and their cousin: Death Concept from Sonic Frontiers
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This is what I mean. His power varies, but to what went? Especially since Phantom King was doing actual damage to Classic Super Sonic. At this point, we're just saying Classic Sonic was X tier in Y because of Z. I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense. Especially since typically the biggest threats are ones that can actually damage Super Sonic.
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It feels like a lazy explanation and gatekeepy at that. I don't think any of this is a good argument at all.
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It's just copium. It will run out eventually.
TheStinkeer
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Huh I was about to say they just took the falling debris without rings but apparently they might've took the stomps without losing rings. That being said I would want to see them take one of Void's energy attack things without rings and see what happens from there. Or maybe I missed that part of the video
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One could assume that any damage in this video is the same.
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It's lazy but sometimes we gotta resort to copout explanations because of careless writing
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FOOLISHNESS
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Considering that shuffle also has infinite speed feats for the base characters I think either, them being amped or an outlier is the only reasonable explanations
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I think that isn't constructive to scaling at all. Just feels gatekeepy and headcanon. We should support facts, not whatever that is.
Even though there's no proof of that line of reasoning for the amping. If we're going to denounce certain scaling args, can we at least have a good reason for why or one that is rooted in fact/supported by evidence? If he has Infinite speed arguments, then that can be used as either something for scaling or supporting evidence for actual Infinite speed scaling. We already have people thinking stuff in this game is an outlier with it only being half corrected, so I don't see the point in it NOT being allowed.
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Them fighting alongside Lumina, half of Illumina, seems a good reason for the amp
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That sounds like headcanon. There's zero indication of that happening. If I don't see hard evidence or proof, then why am I at all meant to believe that this is the case at all? This isn't a good reason.
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Like, I don't mean to come off as disrespectful or nasty or anything, but when did we start just making up reasonings for scaling instead of using pure objectivity and an unbiased perspective on the situation. I don't get it. At that point, what's the point in scaling this verse at all if there's essentially just lies about the scaling. If we aren't using the truth, what are we using? I don't remember headcanon flying in pretty much any debate I've been in. It's just a fallacy of unproven evidence. Let's be real for a second. Like, genuinely.
MysticMania
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Thank you for letting me know.
TheStinkeer
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Actually I do think there is some grounds for it, there's the cards she gives to them and the fact that they can fly in the 4th dimensional space. That being said the latter could just be her giving the cast the ability to fly as well in that particular context rather than a physical amp, since we also see Tails flying normally, and them being amped is technically never stated
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Where did Iizuka and Ian say this?
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The cards are a mechanic in the game and they do not seem to be utilized in the actual fight. And a lot of the time, it is utilized within the board map as a Mario Party-type effect. There's no actual evidenced of amping during the fight. The latter, as you said, could just be giving them flight. We don't see much else.
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Nothing directly happens, but there are tier 2 capabilities suggested.
nightmare eggman was going to replace the universe with his dreamscape instantly, though he needed the power of the reverie (which main gimmick is manifesting dreams in reality) and he never got ariem's authority which is needed to actually use the reverie's power and thus never achieved it.
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It's a really old one, from 2022
Takashi Iizuka Wants to 'Connect' the Sonic Universes and Create a 'Unified Sonic Experience' - Sonic Stadium Interview
Sonic Frontiers looks to be the most ambitious entry in the game series yet - and not just in the gameplay department. While Sonic's latest adventure does aim to reinvent the tried-and-tested format with its free-roaming 'open zone' concept, SEGA is also keen to use the game as a stepping stone t...
www.sonicstadium.org
ShakeResounding
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I'm a bit surprised more people don't know about/remember the Iizuka statement, felt like a pretty big deal at the time.
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I wonder if there's just no proper archived comments from Sonic fans or influencers and this causes the fanbase to never be up to date with statements in a lasting manner.
Like, when Ian still answered Sonic questions in the Bumblekast most people just shared out of context clips and seemed to be completely unaware of how comic business or even writing in general works
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