Argosax does not affect the future and the past

[GilverFortuna]

This thing is an effing hoax made by the translators. In the Japanese translation it says this:

閉ざされた扉を開くのは

四方の光、

しかし光は

狩人の旧敵をも招く

『狩人への道標』第11章7節

It is translated as:

"The light from all directions opens the closed door.

But this light also invites the hunter's old enemies.

"The Hunter's Guide" Chapter 11, Section 7"


I hope one day a DMC game will get a proper translation. I also want to say my thoughts on the translators, but I'm not sure if my thoughts won't get this post removed.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Perhaps you should contract our site's Translation Helpers?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Using a link that is already accepted.

Phantom is from the Past, and is in fact the same one we killed on Mallet Island. Dante then kills him.

The mission text being different doesn't change much on the time travel stuff.


edit: the text literally says it invites the hunter's old enemies lol

 

[GilverFortuna]

Using a link that is already accepted.

Phantom is from the Past, and is in fact the same one we killed on Mallet Island. Dante then kills him.

The mission text being different doesn't change much on the time travel stuff.


edit: the text literally says it invites the hunter's old enemies lol

Problem is, I checked the Japanese guide on time travel stuff in mission 14. Nothing there. It's English-only. And knowing how English DMC translations are... yeah, I'm not trusting that.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

How is this japanese text any different than what is already said in english? This just looks like playing semantics to me.

 

[GilverFortuna]

How is this japanese text any different than what is already said in english? This just looks like playing semantics to me.

...because it is literally saying NOTHING about time travel. Zero. Null. Just that Phantom smh returned. That's it. Same for fusing the worlds btw. Just that he'd "bring it (the world) into ruin". Oh, and did I mention that there's nothing about Gilver's nexus being able to take over the Human World in Japanese either?
Here's a translation of the Japanese guidebook page on Mission 14 btw:

---

MISSION 14 (Dante's Campaign)

【STORY HIGHLIGHT / Story Highlights】
• Arius's ritual must be stopped before the sun sets completely. But how can they get inside the building?
• Dante decides the building can be entered from the Demon World. To open the gate, he sets out to activate the Seal Spheres.
• After activating all the spheres, the gate to the Demon World opens, but immediately afterward, Dante is confronted by his old nemesis, the Phantom.
• The Phantom's body, defeated by Dante once again, crumbles to dust.

---

Walkthrough (MISSION START)
• Quote: "Four lights will open a locked door, but the light will also summon an old enemy." — Hunter's Memories, Chapter 11, Section 7.

1. START -> 7-1: Lower Town (Loar Town), Demon Version ①
2. 7-1: Find and activate all four Sphere Seals located in this area.
3. 7-2: After slicing the "eyeball" on the Demon World gate, Phantom will appear—defeat it.
4. MISSION CLEAR!!

Summary:
You must explore the Lower Town, which is gradually merging with the Demon World, and activate four spheres. Afterward, proceed to area 7-2, remove the seal from the gate, and prepare for the final battle with an old acquaintance—Phantom.

---

How to get S-rank (S-rank)
• Target time: 11:00
• Target number of orbs: 3000

Tips:
By defeating enemies around the S-rank Sphere Seals, you can accumulate the required number of red orbs and increase your average style stat. The key to this mission is to avoid taking damage in the final fight with Phantom and keep your combo meter running.

Screenshot caption:
"When Phantom blocks attacks with its front legs, your damage is not dealt. Use dodges to maintain your combo meter during this time."

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yea this is just semantical games, taking words hyperliterally and ignoring context to arrive at conclusion contradicting everything.

How did the enemy you killed in the past return? Its quite obvious what the context is based on events of the game. Dimensions are merging, space and time is getting chaotic, both world are returning to their old state when HW was inside the DW, yada yada yada. A temporal reverse bfr'ed enemy from past is the most oridinary thing happening here.

I remember checking the raws for Gilver's nexus and the nexus before that in the past, there is no contradiction I remember. It's basically the same. The entire job of nexus is to reality warp and corrupt the human world. This is claim that nexus doesn't takeover human world is non sense. Same for Argosax merge.

 

[GilverFortuna]

Yea this is just semantical games, taking words hyperliterally and ignoring context to arrive at conclusion contradicting everything.

How did the enemy you killed in the past return? Its quite obvious what the context is based on events of the game. Dimensions are merging, space and time is getting chaotic, both world are returning to their old state when HW was inside the DW, yada yada yada. A temporal reverse bfr'ed enemy from past is the most oridinary thing happening here.

I remember checking the raws for Gilver's nexus and the nexus before that in the past, there is no contradiction I remember. It's basically the same. The entire job of nexus is to reality warp and corrupt the human world. This is claim that nexus doesn't takeover human world is non sense. Same for Argosax merge.

oh idk how would an enemy you killed in the past would return in DMC... like the bosses return literally every time you have to redo them in the games?

 

[GilverFortuna]

Perhaps you should contract our site's Translation Helpers?

Thanks for the advice. How do I do that?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

oh idk how would an enemy you killed in the past would return in DMC... like the bosses return literally every time you have to redo them in the games?

Ignoring context again? Check in each game why we repeat fight bosses. Either they are nightmare copies or rely on wierd temporal bfrs or recreations.
The only game remotely comparable here is Saviour's dice game bosses, where each heaven dimension is clear recreation of the past.
But even then it's not comparable temporal bfr. This is a DMC1 boss appearing in DMC2, there is no comparable cross game boss repeat in the series again, aside from PoC. And PoC has the most space-time bullshit ever.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Thanks for the advice. How do I do that?

There should be a List of Staff page with instructions

 

[GilverFortuna]

Ignoring context again? Check in each game why we repeat fight bosses. Either they are nightmare copies or rely on wierd temporal bfrs or recreations.
The only game remotely comparable here is Saviour's dice game bosses, where each heaven dimension is clear recreation of the past.
But even then it's not comparable temporal bfr.

exactly. So, since in the original Japanese version there's literally nothing that says anything about temporal bullshit, why should the "enemy from the past" mean it if it's not in the context?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

exactly. So, since in the original Japanese version there's literally nothing that says anything about temporal bullshit, why should the "enemy from the past" mean it if it's not in the context?

Those bosses literally have their mechanics explained explicitly for repetition. There is no misinterpreting or miscontextualising them. Aside from Saviour, every boss in mainline game is either explicitly stated repeat because of metaphysical bullshit like nightmare recreation.

Phantom is the only boss from past that is repeated cross intergame, and this never happens again. Which evident because of all the cosmic dimensional bullshit happening in the game.

 

[GilverFortuna]

There should be a List of Staff page with instructions

I found it. Do I just post on the message wall?

 

[Thehunter077]

So we are just gonna throw away the because it's different from the game, while a whole guidebooks explain better?

 

[HelloThere1089]

Agrosex

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Problem is, I checked the Japanese guide on time travel stuff in mission 14. Nothing there. It's English-only. And knowing how English DMC translations are... yeah, I'm not trusting that.

It's an english guide, there are no translations there.

oh idk how would an enemy you killed in the past would return in DMC... like the bosses return literally every time you have to redo them in the games?

except you are ignoring the context of why those bosses return?

DMC 1 they literally run away before Dante finishes the deed and are all killed in their third encounter, even Mundus tried to run away during his second phase with Dante
DMC 2 Dante kills everything in his path (except for Arius for plot reasons and Bolverk), there are no rematches there
DMC3 everything dies in the first fight (except Vergil obviously) and only come back in the nirvana realm as illusions
DMC 4 they run away from Nero and Dante kills them
DMC 5 the only boss you fight multiple times is Urizen

kinda scummy to ignore context in order to make your argument look better, isn't it?

exactly. So, since in the original Japanese version there's literally nothing that says anything about temporal bullshit, why should the "enemy from the past" mean it if it's not in the context?

Phantom dies and we see it live happening, not only that but the one we fight in 2 is our Phantom because the game explicitly says "the hunter's old enemies"

How could a demon that has already been killed come back? You got context in the game with time and space being distorted and the worlds merging once again and you got the answer (which the english guide provided), Phantom got yanked from the past to fight Dante.

it's not that hard dude

 

[AyOgUyS]

I found it. Do I just post on the message wall?

Probably

 

[TokiNoOuja]

So im sure the thread already answered, isn't this enough for being locked?

 

[GilverFortuna]

It's an english guide, there are no translations there.

It's an english guide using a poorly translated line from the game.

How could a demon that has already been killed come back? You got context in the game with time and space being distorted and the worlds merging once again and you got the answer (which the english guide provided), Phantom got yanked from the past to fight Dante.

The time and space are being warped in the English guide only though. Not to mention that there's Phantom's parts lodged in Argosax the Chaos's body. Why couldn't it be Argosax making a copy based on what he already has?

kinda scummy to ignore context in order to make your argument look better, isn't it?

Problem is, there is absolutely no temporal bullshit besides the English guide. There is absolutely no context of that in the Japanese version of the game either. And why do you have to be so aggressive lol

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Occam's razor first. Second, positive claims require positive evidence, because Argosax is still sealed, only his influence is escaping. If you say Argosax made a copy, I am gonna need direct scans for that. Or this is just deflection based on conjecture.

Problem is, there is absolutely no temporal bullshit besides the English guide. There is absolutely no context of that in the Japanese version of the game either. And why do you have to be so aggressive lol

Then what the hell do you think is happening?

 

[GilverFortuna]

Occam's razor first. Second, positive claims require positive evidence, because Argosax is still sealed, only his influence is escaping. If you say Argosax made a copy, I am gonna need direct scans for that. Or this is just deflection based on conjecture.

Then what the hell do you think is happening?

I have absolutely no idea. I'm looking through the guide currently, and it continues to use the poorly translated phrases from the game, moreover, for some reason Puia fires missiles there instead of feathers. Oh and guess what? The same guide features another version of the phrase about the Phantom, and now it's the correct translation with no temporal bullshit.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Anthing projectile can be called a missile. I can throw a ball and I call it a missile. Its an accurate use of the world.

Also those scans dont even tell me anything.

 

[GilverFortuna]

Anthing projectile can be called a missile. I can throw a ball and I call it a missile. Its an accurate use of the world.

Also those scans dont even tell me anything.

What I'm saying is that when the poorly translated English mission start mentions a door to the future/past, the guidemaker writes about time paradoxes. And when it doesn't, the guidemaker doesn't either. So I'm starting be more and more certain that the "time paradox" thing was more of a throwaway phrase/commentary he came up with when making the guide and seeing the "door to the future/past" phrase.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

It's an english guide using a poorly translated line from the game.

They are still right about it.

The time and space are being warped in the English guide only though. Not to mention that there's Phantom's parts lodged in Argosax the Chaos's body. Why couldn't it be Argosax making a copy based on what he already has?

"The world is already warped. Everything that belongs to the devils will eventually revert to its original form." - The Game

In mission 14 you can see how the island became a closed off loop that only opens once Dante uses all the spheres that intensify the movement of the demon world.

The human world is being warped and will eventually be consumed by the demon world. There IS time and space fuckery going on. If you played the game or saw the full playthrough you will know the context instead of using headcanon. The brady guide author saw this and wrote about it.

Problem is, there is absolutely no temporal bullshit besides the English guide. There is absolutely no context of that in the Japanese version of the game either. And why do you have to be so aggressive lol

The above quite literally debunks this.

I'm not being aggressive, I'm calling you out on saying there is a lack of context and then ignoring context to elevate your argument.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Don't really see a problem here. In the translation in the OP it mentions an old enemy returns. In the game the world is being warped. One scan linked mentions a door to the past and future. Even disregarding that it's a mission that clearly involves an old enemy returning, not just a random duplicate like with the Savior in DMC 4 dice game. So connecting the dots would lead to it being from the past in my opinion.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Phantom is referred to as an old enemy returning, not as a copy of an old enemy. The enemy in question died years earlier. Guides further support this as does the official translation.

I'd say this is still clearly time shenanigans just from that alone. It's not as if time shenanigans is uncommon in DMC.