Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[ShakeResounding]

Good evening (or morning or afternoon) to anyone who still exist or is in Mephiles' situation.

Good evening to you too, dude.

After lurking around on Reddit and on the Wiki for months, I finally managed to create this account.

Oh hey, lemme give you a proper welcome to the wiki! Hopefully you find meaningful connections and/or good chats to ruminate over and whatnot!

I'll start with thanking all Sonic supporters for their work. Both the powerscaling and cosmology blogs are fantastic. I really like how each component is broken down "step by step" and made easier to understand even for someone with only basic knowledge of how the Tiering System works.

Those are some very kind, highly-appreciated words there, buddy.

We've tried to be as thorough as possible regarding what we believe comprises the cosmology, and took thorough care into not using overcomplicated/unnecessary language. The closer we stick to layman's terms, all the better.

A blog I honestly think is the best of all, it's the one about Dreams. Their relationship with Chaos Energy and how they "govern" other Metaphysical Aspects like plot and information is fascinating.

As the creator of the blog, connecting the tidbits of information throughout all of those sources was equally enrapturing. The more I saw that Chaos Energy and Dreams were connected, and the more I delved into what exactly Dreams are/can be, it was like everything started smoothly clicking into place.

However, wasn't there a sandbox with a better wording regarding the "levels of fundamentality"?

Ah, I know what you're talking about and it was already used iirc. IIRC some mild changes to that section occurred when there were slight alterations to esoteric hax and whether or not their "dimensional level" mattered (and now, for most hax, it mostly doesn't).

Good to be chatting with you! I hope you find your stay here pleasurable if you so choose. And I hope you'll find that the Sonic fans within the community on this site are much more tame and likeable compared to other sites, though not without our own bad eggs.

 

[JJSliderman]

Little quickie

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Where does Metal's copying ability cap off at? Like in terms of abilities he can copy, where is the cut off point? I ask since every character he's copied has at least half the wiki's entire set of powers in their arsenal somewhere.

 

[ChaoticSapphire]

Good to be chatting with you! I hope you find your stay here pleasurable if you so choose. And I hope you'll find that the Sonic fans within the community on this site are much more tame and likeable compared to other sites, though not without our own bad eggs.

Thank you! And I'm aware of how chill most of you are here. Kind of surprise when you know how chaotic the Sonic verse tends to be (like when a certain set of gems could casually go "f*** everyone-mode" if left alone in a dimension that's not its own ).

 

[JJSliderman]

Where does Metal's copying ability cap off at? Like in terms of abilities he can copy, where is the cut off point? I ask since every character he's copied has at least half the wiki's entire set of powers in their arsenal somewhere.

Well he’s never copied entities with HDE or BDE or NEP at least.

And also ghosts, his ability to copy ghosts is shaky.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Well he’s never copied entities with HDE or BDE or NEP at least.

And also ghosts, his ability to copy ghosts is shaky.

While that's true, he has copied like higher dimensional abilities though considering we have Chaos power as 6D powers so I don't think HDE would be a massive stretch beyond that unless its higher dimensional than anything in Sonic's franchise.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Yeah, being able to copy esoteric abilities from sources such as Chaos Energy means he's capable of copying other UES' on the wiki so long as they aren't Systems rooted in shit like High 1-A sources and whatnot.

As for the limit of his copy ability, things like Solaris' HDE would probably have an inability to be copied because Neo doesn't have feats of adapt and altering his entire Physiology to a "super-dimensional being". We know he can copy physiologies though, as he did with Chaos.

And if you're asking this stuff because it's related to a versus match or just out of curiosity, you can always ask directly about if Neo could copy a character and we could probably brainstorm to ascertain an answer

 

[OldestDream2]

ooh I never checked out that blog seems cool

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, being able to copy esoteric abilities from sources such as Chaos Energy means he's capable of copying other UES' on the wiki so long as they aren't Systems rooted in shit like High 1-A sources and whatnot.

As for the limit of his copy ability, things like Solaris' HDE would probably have an inability to be copied because Neo doesn't have feats of adapt and altering his entire Physiology to a "super-dimensional being". We know he can copy physiologies though, as he did with Chaos.

And if you're asking this stuff because it's related to a versus match or just out of curiosity, you can always ask directly about if Neo could copy a character and we could probably brainstorm to ascertain an answer

Could Neo copy Stukov, who has this sort of thing going on with him?

 

[MysticMania]

Good evening (or morning or afternoon) to anyone who still exist or is in Mephiles' situation.

After lurking around on Reddit and on the Wiki for months, I finally managed to create this account.

Welcome! It's nice to have you.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Could Neo copy Stukov, who has this sort of thing going on with him?

I... that is a genuinely good ******* question lol.

I don't think he could copy the exact psi-sensitive fibers of the suit, but perhaps only mimic it in a way that it would grant the benefits? Idk, he is a shapeshifter but I'm uncertain as to the extent of copying out-of-verse materials and where that would even fall. Interesting thought experiment.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I... that is a genuinely good ******* question lol.

I don't think he could copy the exact psi-sensitive fibers of the suit, but perhaps only mimic it in a way that it would grant the benefits? Idk, he is a shapeshifter but I'm uncertain as to the extent of copying out-of-verse materials and where that would even fall. Interesting thought experiment.

https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Hostile_environment_suit

To know more about the Stealth suit

But I mostly mean more on how Stukov is made up currently, hence my link

 

[TheStinkeer]

(like when a certain set of gems could casually go "f*** everyone-mode" if left alone in a dimension that's not its own ).

And for some reason their cousins can join in and do it instantaneously

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Thank you! And I'm aware of how chill most of you are here. Kind of surprise when you know how chaotic the Sonic verse tends to be (like when a certain set of gems could casually go "f*** everyone-mode" if left alone in a dimension that's not its own ).

Sol Emeralds: "A new wielder? Not from this dimension? How queer! I've never seen such a thing! I must inquire about this further with the Princess post-haste!"

Chaos Emeralds "I guess we destroyin all of existence now"

 

[TheStinkeer]

Btw, is there anything that helps suggest that the Egg Shuttle traveling to Planet Wisp should be something that the Frigate Skullian and Frigate Ocean scale too? Like it definitely seems like they should but yk
Been making a small doc on Sonic's lightspeed stuff and it got me wondering

I think I found some evidence that should help. The Egg Shuttle makes it a point to say "light-speed access to each of the park's attractions!" In Starlight Carnival, Eggman's voice can be heard over the loudspaker saying "Attention ladies and gentlemen, please make your way to the main viewing area where the Light Speed Electrical Parade is about to begi... oh and that concludes our Light Speed Electrical Parade." (it's REALLY hard to hear tho, i only found it on the fandom wiki)The main attraction of Starlight Carnival seems to be the ships, and seeing the dialogue it seemed the light speed electrical parade just instantly ended due to how fast the ships are. The frigates should apply to this, especially Frigate Orcan. Still not a direct scale but I imagine it's a good piece of evidence

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

But not before YEAR OF METAL BAYBEEEE

Also Silver and Blaze chained again teehee

I have long since accepted being a Blaze fan is a lost cause of repeatedly getting burned by gross misunderstandings about her role in the verse (plus not getting any major game representation and/or repeatedly getting chained to Future Trunks the Hedgehog ever since she got fridged for him in 06. LOL at the "solo IDW" adventure).

In all honesty this just reflects the broader issues at Sega, on how their treat the female Sonic cast. Amy's "new" characterization, Sticks being in continuity limbo, baiting fans with the new girls; Tangle, Whisper, Surge, etc but peeps aren't ready for that discussion yet.

It's not even a hot take at this point, it's just facts that Joshscorcher's Starfire Vs Blaze animation and ost (as much as I dislike the MU) gave the fiery princess from another dimension far more respect, attention and urgency than Sega have done in nearly two decades of comics, games and animations (after Rush Adventure) plus one of the main connections of that MU was "underused and misused heroines". Let's be honest it'll be a very hot minute before Blaze gets anywhere near that level of spotlight "officially" in the future...

Like seriously, the fact thousands of Blaze fans got excited over Sonic briefly mentioning her by name, in an one-off line in Frontiers says it all...

 

[TMaakkonen]

2010s in general limited characters a lot, hell technically 2020s kinda too? If you wanted to see most of cast in 1 game its literally been only Forces, 2 racing games and mobile slop ever since 2011 Generations. Not even being playable, but just having a route. Then again if most cast would only be NPCs in next game, that could get complains too huh.

 

[ChaoticSapphire]

If the "Night Palace" feat does get removed, would the baseline for post-Frontiers Sonic change from over 120,000x to about 500x?

 

[MysticMania]

Sadly, this franchise hasn't ever been great at handling its characters, imo.

 

[StarShooter80]

What feats/scaling get impacted by this revision?

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

In light of recent downgrades, how do we feel about the stuff in this video? Curious is all.

 

[Theuser789]

What feats/scaling get impacted by this revision?

Any feats that involve the universe size. So a lot of calcs.

 

[TheStinkeer]

In light of recent downgrades, how do we feel about the stuff in this video? Curious is all.

Personally I disagree with a lot of it, but the Classic Sonic lightspeed and Solaris immeasurable points are good. Time Eater I'm a little iffy on but it's def infinite via. TE's own attacks (or, yknow, at least MFTL+) and immeasurable via. scaling to Solaris. Disagree with irrelevant Null Space but it should be infinite.

 

[Fireld]

I always had a headcanon of Sonic being more acrobatic, Shadow being more athletic, and Silver being more balanced with all of them having abilities that make them even out if you wanna look at their deeper kit.

Developers tbh dont like using Metal's copy ability. Hasnt it only been in Rivals games and Heroes?

Free Riders & arguably Fighters

Still funny if Death Battle uses Toei content, they have acknowledge just how insane the build up to the Cell games truly were: Broly, Mecha Cooler and Hatchiyack

Non-Cannon Z-Fighters after the Cell Saga (movies/ovas/games included)

Like seriously, the fact thousands of Blaze fans got excited over Sonic briefly mentioning her by name, in an one-off line in Frontiers says it all...

hmm... user's fault for reminding me of that vid

 

[StarShooter80]

Any feats that involve the universe size. So a lot of calcs.

Any notable ones that come to mind?

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

What does this mean?

 

[Remus1998]

Any notable ones that come to mind?

Shadow reacting to the Paradox Prism booming the Prime reality

 

[StarShooter80]

This feat which is regarded as infinite on the profile should be 2.445661765 Quadrillion c based on the new revision.

Shadow reacting to the Paradox Prism booming the Prime reality

Yeah that won't be very easy lol

 

[Remus1998]

Yeah that won't be very easy lol

???

 

[JJSliderman]

This feat which is regarded as infinite on the profile should be 2.445661765 Quadrillion c based on the new revision.

I won’t lie I think I disagree with the planet wisp feats, they should be unquantifiable.

 

[TheStinkeer]

I won’t lie I think I disagree with the planet wisp feats, they should be unquantifiable.

ngl they're still somewhere in the MFTL+ tier given the "across the universe" statement. That being said we could take the Dodon Pa ship feat and divide it by a certain amount, or just leave it as support alongside the Rivals feat, Egg Mobile feat, etc. and leave a note regarding it

 

[TheStinkeer]

this moment where Sonic can boost away from the Nega-Wisp Armor's black hole is pretty cool
I was looking for what would happen when Sonic gets sucked into it and then the first few seconds of this video has it (just a small ouchie)

 

[ChaoticSapphire]

this moment where Sonic can boost away from the Nega-Wisp Armor's black hole is pretty cool
I was looking for what would happen when Sonic gets sucked into it and then the first few seconds of this video has it (just a small ouchie)

It's kind of funny to think that Black Holes are probably one of the least illogical wonders of the Sonic verse.

 

[ShakeResounding]

What feats/scaling get impacted by this revision?

Sonic Generations: Time Eater destroys Classic Sonic's Universe

vsbattles.fandom.com

IIRC this would be applicable because iirc this is performed by the Time Eater in the interim-state between Time Eater's Primordial form (the black blob in space) and his final state with the cogwork design from the final battle.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Theuser789/Super_Sonic_MFTL%2B_Calcs_Compilation#Sonic_Rush:_Flying_To_The_Exception

This one is an extremely contentious feat but it would technically be applicable from the 2 universes' space-times beginning to merge. I think the calc fails to account starting from Earth but I can't remember.

 

[AyOgUyS]

or just leave it as support alongside the Rivals feat, Egg Mobile feat, etc. and leave a note regarding it

well that just seems lame but if we can't find an exact value ig it works

 

[ShakeResounding]

Our MFTL+ scaling would cap around sextillions c again due to all the scaling chains and upscaling we have throughout the course of after the MFTL+ feats take place.

I am forever grateful for my Stats Blog, it let's us parse through the entire history of our scaling since like 2022 or 2023 for easy cross-referencing

 

[AyOgUyS]

Our MFTL+ scaling would cap around sextillions c again due to all the scaling chains and upscaling we have throughout the course of after the MFTL+ feats take place.

I am forever grateful for my Stats Blog, it let's us parse through the entire history of our scaling since like 2022 or 2023 for easy cross-referencing

just to clarify, we are only updating the current blog instead of making a new one?

 

[MugenKage]

Our MFTL+ scaling would cap around sextillions c again due to all the scaling chains and upscaling we have throughout the course of after the MFTL+ feats take place.

I am forever grateful for my Stats Blog, it let's us parse through the entire history of our scaling since like 2022 or 2023 for easy cross-referencing

Sextillion? Huh, I was so focused on our infinite-immeasurable ends that I didn’t even realise that’s where we scaled on the finite side. If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, how exactly do we get to the Sextillion range?

 

[Theuser789]

Our MFTL+ scaling would cap around sextillions c again due to all the scaling chains and upscaling we have throughout the course of after the MFTL+ feats take place.

I am forever grateful for my Stats Blog, it let's us parse through the entire history of our scaling since like 2022 or 2023 for easy cross-referencing

Plus the universe would be 6 times as large as the regular universe.

 

[StarShooter80]

Sonic Generations: Time Eater destroys Classic Sonic's Universe

vsbattles.fandom.com

IIRC this would be applicable because iirc this is performed by the Time Eater in the interim-state between Time Eater's Primordial form (the black blob in space) and his final state with the cogwork design from the final battle.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Theuser789/Super_Sonic_MFTL%2B_Calcs_Compilation#Sonic_Rush:_Flying_To_The_Exception

This one is an extremely contentious feat but it would technically be applicable from the 2 universes' space-times beginning to merge. I think the calc fails to account starting from Earth but I can't remember.

Both of these seem pretty good

Btw why are we ignoring the secret rings feat? Unless if it becomes inconsistent due to being the one infinite speed feat which fair nuff.