• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The Short Awaited Hazbin Hotel Season 2 Downgrade (Part 1. "The only way I know how… SONG!”)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mr. Bambu said:
I'd like to see a more formal proposal from OP on how the scaling looks, in detail, if this downgrade goes through. I saw Reaper's proposal, though I lack the verse knowledge to verify it as sound (I do not watch this show, and in fact would like to actively avoid it :) ).
Click to expand...
DaReaperMan said:
This was Eden's only contention with what I did, so same shit, just replace Possibly 8-B with likely Higher
Click to expand...
More or less.

The revised scaling is entirely anchored to Vox, whose rating after this revision is going to be "Varies; 9-A, up to 8-B"

The "Varies" is there cause his power is directly tied to his Approval rating, and as such fluctuates with it.
Those who scale to 9-A and why
  1. W!Alastor: While intentionally trying to lose, held his own against 9-A Vox and the other two Vees.
  2. Valentino: Can harm Vox when his Approval rating was higher than during his 9-A feats.
  3. Husk: Fought Valentino and could clash with him.
  4. Cherri: Can harm and draw blood from Valentino.
  5. Velvette: Relative to the other Vees but also fought and defeated Husk.
  6. Nifty: Fought on par with Velvette.
  7. The Exorcists (Lute and Vaggi): Are seen as invincible by Hell’s population, Overlords included, and it's believed that Angelic Weapons are required to kill them.
  8. Carmilla Carmine: While her "fight" with Vaggi can be attributed to the fact she was smacking her with an Angelic Weapon, she's still one of the highest ranking Overlords, with enough authority to organize and end their meetings, so could see her getting "Likely 9-A"?
  9. Maybe Angel Dust: Can spar with Cherri and knock her down, force Vox to exert effort to move his head and stop an Exorcist mid-swing with his Angelic Tommy Guns. Note his current rating is x20 below the 9-As.
Those who scale to 8-B and why
  1. Shok.wav: Its originator.
  2. W!Alastor's Demon Form: Held his own against 100% Approval Vox and his arm could withstand Shok.wav's bite.

Special Cases​

 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
More or less.

The revised scaling is entirely anchored to Vox, whose rating after this revision is going to be "Varies; 9-A, up to 8-B"

The "Varies" is there cause his power is directly tied to his Approval rating, and as such fluctuates with it.
Those who scale to 9-A and why
  1. W!Alastor: While intentionally trying to lose, held his own against 9-A Vox and the other two Vees.
  2. Valentino: Can harm Vox when his Approval rating was higher than during his 9-A feats.
  3. Husk: Fought Valentino and could clash with him.
  4. Cherri: Can harm and draw blood from Valentino.
  5. Velvette: Relative to the other Vees but also fought and defeated Husk.
  6. Nifty: Fought on par with Velvette.
  7. The Exorcists (Lute and Vaggi): Are seen as invincible by Hell’s population, Overlords included, and it's believed that Angelic Weapons are required to kill them.
  8. Carmilla Carmine: While her "fight" with Vaggi can be attributed to the fact she was smacking her with an Angelic Weapon, she's still one of the highest ranking Overlords, with enough authority to organize and end their meetings, so could see her getting "Likely 9-A"?
  9. Maybe Angel Dust: Can spar with Cherri and knock her down, force Vox to exert effort to move his head and stop an Exorcist mid-swing with his Angelic Tommy Guns. Note his current rating is x20 below the 9-As.
Those who scale to 8-B and why
  1. Shok.wav: Its originator.
  2. W!Alastor's Demon Form: Held his own against 100% Approval Vox and his arm could withstand Shok.wav's bite.

Special Cases​

Click to expand...
I have no contentions(That I haven't already stated with normal sinners) here, though it would be funny if we put Sins at "At least 9-B" or some shit scaling above Goetia
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
More or less.

The revised scaling is entirely anchored to Vox, whose rating after this revision is going to be "Varies; 9-A, up to 8-B"

The "Varies" is there cause his power is directly tied to his Approval rating, and as such fluctuates with it.
Those who scale to 9-A and why
  1. W!Alastor: While intentionally trying to lose, held his own against 9-A Vox and the other two Vees.
  2. Valentino: Can harm Vox when his Approval rating was higher than during his 9-A feats.
  3. Husk: Fought Valentino and could clash with him.
  4. Cherri: Can harm and draw blood from Valentino.
  5. Velvette: Relative to the other Vees but also fought and defeated Husk.
  6. Nifty: Fought on par with Velvette.
  7. The Exorcists (Lute and Vaggi): Are seen as invincible by Hell’s population, Overlords included, and it's believed that Angelic Weapons are required to kill them.
  8. Carmilla Carmine: While her "fight" with Vaggi can be attributed to the fact she was smacking her with an Angelic Weapon, she's still one of the highest ranking Overlords, with enough authority to organize and end their meetings, so could see her getting "Likely 9-A"?
  9. Maybe Angel Dust: Can spar with Cherri and knock her down, force Vox to exert effort to move his head and stop an Exorcist mid-swing with his Angelic Tommy Guns. Note his current rating is x20 below the 9-As.
Those who scale to 8-B and why
  1. Shok.wav: Its originator.
  2. W!Alastor's Demon Form: Held his own against 100% Approval Vox and his arm could withstand Shok.wav's bite.

Special Cases​

Click to expand...
On the current profiles it says the sins are comparable to overlords. Is that bunk?
 
The_Renegade_Slugger said:
On the current profiles it says the sins are comparable to overlords. Is that bunk?
Click to expand...
It's complicated.

Basically: the Hierarchy of Hell is like, half based on power half based in social status. Andrealphus is the best example of that. So... in-lore, they're way above any Sinner. In what we can accept, Unknown is best for now.
 
DaReaperMan said:
It's complicated.

Basically: the Hierarchy of Hell is like, half based on power half based in social status. Andrealphus is the best example of that. So... in-lore, they're way above any Sinner. In what we can accept, Unknown is best for now.
Click to expand...
Would the possibly prefix work here? Like "Unknown, possibly (whatever we decide on)"
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
More or less.

The revised scaling is entirely anchored to Vox, whose rating after this revision is going to be "Varies; 9-A, up to 8-B"

The "Varies" is there cause his power is directly tied to his Approval rating, and as such fluctuates with it.
Those who scale to 9-A and why
  1. W!Alastor: While intentionally trying to lose, held his own against 9-A Vox and the other two Vees.
  2. Valentino: Can harm Vox when his Approval rating was higher than during his 9-A feats.
  3. Husk: Fought Valentino and could clash with him.
  4. Cherri: Can harm and draw blood from Valentino.
  5. Velvette: Relative to the other Vees but also fought and defeated Husk.
  6. Nifty: Fought on par with Velvette.
  7. The Exorcists (Lute and Vaggi): Are seen as invincible by Hell’s population, Overlords included, and it's believed that Angelic Weapons are required to kill them.
  8. Carmilla Carmine: While her "fight" with Vaggi can be attributed to the fact she was smacking her with an Angelic Weapon, she's still one of the highest ranking Overlords, with enough authority to organize and end their meetings, so could see her getting "Likely 9-A"?
  9. Maybe Angel Dust: Can spar with Cherri and knock her down, force Vox to exert effort to move his head and stop an Exorcist mid-swing with his Angelic Tommy Guns. Note his current rating is x20 below the 9-As.
Those who scale to 8-B and why
  1. Shok.wav: Its originator.
  2. W!Alastor's Demon Form: Held his own against 100% Approval Vox and his arm could withstand Shok.wav's bite.

Special Cases​

Click to expand...
This all sounds reasonable. Seal of approval for you.
 
OiEuSouDuvi said:
I read that, but it doesn't make the amplifier any less absurd, even considering the requirements. But at least it has some basis, so meh.

Regarding Reality Warping, they also do it outside of music. Alastor has a forest in his room, Lucifer literally opened a portal to the place where he sang "Greatest Dad" when he sang the duet with Charlie, and both (Lucifer and Alastor) also had matter manipulation outside of music. It's just that they use this type of ability more in the musical parts, but they have them.
Click to expand...
The extent of reality warping happening in the songs is way far more than what's happening outside.

I think it was also be crazy for them to do fights in songs. Because of singers basically controlling the whole thing to the point I don't see how a normal fight could go.
 
Rosie, a VERY credible source as she's the gal who can tell how potent Alastor's soul is just from looking at him, said that Charlie's "Madly powerful" just in base so, at bare minimum, she should scale to Cherri or above wherever Angel dust scales. Like, Rosie is clearly very knowledgeable about power as She, unlike people like Charlie, the Hotel staff, and even other overlords who've fallen for Radio Propaganda, knew that Al stood zero chance against Adam at the end of the day, and knew that Al was STILL the strongest sinner despite being so heavily Weakened.
It'd be very silly if Charlie, princess of hell and blah blah blah, was placed at unknown while someone like angel dust get's maybe 9-A, like come on. I don't even like the gal that much but kinda lowball is crazy.
And, for the Katie fight and Charlie not just one punching her, did we forget woman doesn't even go all out in a fight against mass murderers and cult leaders? like, she was apologizing while blocking and throwing glitter in the eyes of Excorcists, her not doing any real harm is consistent (Her throwing the most telegraphed attack in all of hell that even unskilled bums like the excorcists could dodge doesn't really count)
 
DaReaperMan said:
Oh, and for the record, argue with @Agnaa, a Super Moderator and Calculation Group Member, and is the one who brought the seconds thing to my attention, that it's calc stacking.
Click to expand...
Done. Said they won't be available for these sorts of discussions during the foreseeable future.
DaReaperMan said:
Oh, and for the record, argue with @Agnaa, a Super Moderator and Calculation Group Member, and is the one who brought the seconds thing to my attention, that it's calc stacking.I would have just done the normal division like we do for... well every other verse with a feat like this. Shit is regularly divided between the people who do it or by seconds. Powerpuff Girls comes to mind for dividing a calc between the folks that did it.
Click to expand...
Agnaa's suggestion wasn't out of place. It happened when the feat that happened overtime was the one giving the rating. The feat changed, and that no longer works; I myself said since the start that it made sense when the feat was stopping the explosion that would've destroyed half of Pentagram City. It's as simple.
DaReaperMan said:
Not what this thread is arguing though, as it's arguing that due to Inverse Square Law getting a lower result than dividing by 14 and the barrier faltering that neither method is usable for durability and whatnot. so I'm gonna call this derailing and stop here.
Click to expand...
Literally doesn't matters. Also, I'll quote again the paragraph I did from the start.
Eden_Warlock99 said:

Removal of Low 5-B (Not Lucifer)​

The current interpretation for the build up of the barrier, that it’s merely accumulating power over time, doesn’t align with what we see on-screen. As mentioned earlier, the barrier visibly stagnates during Lute’s intermission and even shrinks afterward. This detail was very much intentional.
Click to expand...
What I bring it's another reason why the accumulation over time it's not a right assumption, therefore this Tier should not exist.
 
Last edited:
Anonymous_Learner said:
Rosie, a VERY credible source as she's the gal who can tell how potent Alastor's soul is just from looking at him, said that Charlie's "Madly powerful" just in base so, at bare minimum, she should scale to Cherri or above wherever Angel dust scales. Like, Rosie is clearly very knowledgeable about power as She, unlike people like Charlie, the Hotel staff, and even other overlords who've fallen for Radio Propaganda, knew that Al stood zero chance against Adam at the end of the day, and knew that Al was STILL the strongest sinner despite being so heavily Weakened.
It'd be very silly if Charlie, princess of hell and blah blah blah, was placed at unknown while someone like angel dust get's maybe 9-A, like come on. I don't even like the gal that much but kinda lowball is crazy.
And, for the Katie fight and Charlie not just one punching her, did we forget woman doesn't even go all out in a fight against mass murderers and cult leaders? like, she was apologizing while blocking and throwing glitter in the eyes of Excorcists, her not doing any real harm is consistent (Her throwing the most telegraphed attack in all of hell that even unskilled bums like the excorcists could dodge doesn't really count)
Click to expand...
She's going to be one of the only three remaining Tier 5s, Rosie calling her "Madly powerful" still works (Why would Rosie be referring to her holding back state, actually why would it be referring to how hard Charlie can punch at all? Charlie singing and convincing Cannibal Town is what prompted Rosie to say that)

Also she goes into her Demon Form whenever she’s trying to threaten someone. Her base literally just has nothing, so Unknown works best for her.
fandom_777Nikitaa777 said:
The female version of Robo-Fizz is the newest model. Where is the proof that the Robo-Fizz from the circus is the same newest version?
Click to expand...
Mammon's one cheap guy Ig

Also it's like a minor part of a supporting argument.
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
She's going to be one of the only three remaining Tier 5s, Rosie calling her "Madly powerful" still works (Why would Rosie be referring to her holding back state, actually why would it be referring to how hard she can punch at all? Charlie singing and convincing Cannibal Town is what prompted Rosie to say that)

Also she goes into her Demon Form whenever she’s trying to threaten someone. Her base literally just has nothing, so Unknown works best for her.
Click to expand...
ah well, I tried. Potential woman is just that, potential.
Nothing is lost from Charlie being Unknown
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:

Removal of Low 5-B (Not Lucifer)​

The current interpretation for the build up of the barrier, that it’s merely accumulating power over time, doesn’t align with what we see on-screen. As mentioned earlier, the barrier visibly stagnates during Lute’s intermission and even shrinks afterward. This detail was very much intentional.
Click to expand...
Still, I am surprised. You don't recognize your own flaw

The barrier looks like being stagnated because that IS the full capacity they can do
Heck, they even claimed that very specifically in the song

Also, i don't know whether you've ever noticed this or not, but in the scene with Vaggie here, the barrier DIDN'T shrink just a bit
The POV angle is what made it seems smaller
 
Last edited:
Polastournecis said:
The barrier looks like being stagnated because that IS the full capacity they can do
Heck, they even claimed that very specifically in the song
Click to expand...
You do realize that doesn’t make sense with the accumulation argument, right?
If Charlie is constantly putting out 2 magic per second, she's not going to randomly stop doing so the moment the barrier hits 100, especially since she also apparently continued to output said 2 magic per second for the other half of the song.
Polastournecis said:
Also, i don't know whether you've ever noticed this or not, but in the scene with Vaggie here, the barrier DIDN'T shrink just a bit
The POV angle is what it seems smaller
Click to expand...
You sure?
13xzIaH.png
GMbycyd.png


Ya also didn’t address the author comments confirming that the barrier shrinking was an intentional detail either.
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
We have no idea how strong Katie is, is she closer to Pentious/Baxter or Cherri? Who knows lol
Click to expand...
She is clearly above Pentious as he is weak so just scale her above Pentyious.
Eden_Warlock99 said:
When did she do this? Ig she did smack one here, but again, Angelic Weapon yada yada
Click to expand...
What's important is that she is using a shield and directly overpowering them, if she was many times weaker the Exorcist would be able to win the clashes. They also have Angelic weapons after all.
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
You do realize that doesn’t make sense with the accumulation argument, right?
If Charlie is constantly putting out 2 magic per second, she's not going to randomly stop doing so the moment the barrier hits 100, especially since she also apparently continued to output said 2 magic per second for the other half of the song.
Click to expand...
The fact is, Charlie and Emily didn't create on their own
No barrier is created until Niffty and Husk came to help
Eden_Warlock99 said:
You sure?
13xzIaH.png
GMbycyd.png


Ya also didn’t address the author comments confirming that the barrier shrinking was an intentional detail either.
Click to expand...
Dude, you realize Emily was serevely drained of power that moment?
 
ShionAH said:
She is clearly above Pentious as he is weak so just scale her above Pentyious.

What's important is that she is using a shield and directly overpowering them, if she was many times weaker the Exorcist would be able to win the clashes. They also have Angelic weapons after all.
Click to expand...
Yeah she scales above Pentious, he's just sorta also Unknown so it doesn't really change much.

I'm fine with Base Charlie being 9-A btw. I just need the clip where she overpowers them, cause the ones here sorta just, slam their heads into her shield???
Polastournecis said:
Dude, you realize Emily was serevely drained of power that moment?
Click to expand...
Yes. That's the point.

A water bucket isn't going to lose water, if one of the people filling it with water, get tired.
 
She completely stopped this direct stab and overpowered... HOLY SHIT, CHARLIE BROKE THE ANGELIC WEAPON 😭

1771349694600-06ebb826-0fd1-4d47-8fc5-12902014ea6c.png
 
ShionAH said:
She completely stopped this direct stab and overpowered... HOLY SHIT, CHARLIE BROKE THE ANGELIC WEAPON 😭
Click to expand...
I mean, it was the Exorcist who rammed their spear into the shield with enough power to deform it.

Actually, this reminds me, what do we do with Angelic Weapons? Nifty's, to be specific.
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
I mean, it was the Exorcist who rammed their spear into the shield with enough power to deform it.
Click to expand...
Last time any Angelic Steel "broke" was when it was hit by something 5-B and fell from Hell to Heaven, additionally it would still be a Charlie feat for not even moving an inch and halting the momentum paired with the Spear to the point of breaking it.
Eden_Warlock99 said:
Actually, this reminds me, what do we do with Angelic Weapons? Nifty's, to be specific.
Click to expand...
All of them are still 5-B, they are insane and iirc have no anti feats
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

DaReaperMan
  • Locked
The Long Awaited Hazbin Hotel Season 2 CRT
14 15 16
Replies
634
Views
33K
Agnaa
Agnaa
StrymULTRA
  • Locked
An archangel's fall - Massive Adam downgrades (Hazbin Hotel)
2 3
Replies
113
Views
6K
StrymULTRA
StrymULTRA
Polastournecis
Not-so-big revision
2 3 4
Replies
133
Views
7K
DarkLock92
DarkLock92
ShionAH
Hazbin Hotel FTL Addition
3 4 5
Replies
173
Views
5K
Rogue_Forge
Rogue_Forge
DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt
Charlie Morningstar is not weaker than all of hell
2
Replies
51
Views
2K
DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt
DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt
Back
Top