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What in OPM has compatible mechanics with cursed energy? I don't know what can we equalize with CE in a "reasonable fashion"
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Satoru Gojo vs Saitama
- Thread starter Tuxidoe_Redo
- Start date
AlipheeseXIV
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Blame the fact that it just...doesn't EE lmao, anyways I vote Saitama. Gojo realistically has no way to win, Saitama could just hit him into space like how Boros did him, or something and win via BFR.
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would be too unfortunate but luckily it’s working.
Wish CE aura was soul crush
Saqphire
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The EE is inconsistent as fuhh in visuals, that's why
All of these win cons require him to bypass infinity. Saitama used an air blast from a punch, and air blasts have been blocked by Gojo
AlipheeseXIV
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There is also the fact Sukuna just blatantly tanks it off guard that makes it kinda weird, though you can argue he would just have resistance to it but meh
I don't think there's proof to suggest he can completely nullify the force from a punch from someone who scales more than thousands of times higher than his best showing
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I'm not going to comment on the Infinity stuff because **** that mess (Tho that said I don't think being able to grip a gap in space-time is the same as grabbing space without a gap/leverage to grip onto. If Saitama punched pure space away, then I'd be more inclined to believe he could negate Infinity).
But that domain stuff about having fast enough perceptions doesn't help at all. The amount of information is what makes the domain lethal, but it's not what induces paralysis. What causes the paralysis is that UV forces all your senses to allocate all their processes to discerning the information, thus making movement impossible. Their bodily processes can't move because they are being forced to process information instead of doing anything else like moving. Doesn't matter if you can process the information, it'd still cause you to be unable to move unless you have a resistance to your senses being manipulated to do one thing only.
That said, I'm pretty sure the info dump is relative to the victim's own processing speed. Regular humans were suspended after just 0.2 seconds of it and were cooked for months, Curses were only affected for 299 seconds but that's only cuz their brain is physiologically different. Sukuna who's Hypersonic or whatever was only caught by it for less than 0.01 seconds and got suspended. If it didn't scale with his perception speed, he'd have handled that no issue (His perception speed should be comparable to Gojo's who is bare minimum MHS and at most like Relativistic or whatever). And Gojo himself processed years of information in his mind in like a fraction of a second and was fine. Sukuna shouldn't have problems if it were less than 6 months of information in 0.2 seconds by any stretch of the imagination.
But worst case scenario all it does is incap Saitama until the domain collapses without killing Saitama. Which can be a wincon tbf, he can jusst keep his domain open for a day and that'd be a win via incap or whatever but bleh
But that domain stuff about having fast enough perceptions doesn't help at all. The amount of information is what makes the domain lethal, but it's not what induces paralysis. What causes the paralysis is that UV forces all your senses to allocate all their processes to discerning the information, thus making movement impossible. Their bodily processes can't move because they are being forced to process information instead of doing anything else like moving. Doesn't matter if you can process the information, it'd still cause you to be unable to move unless you have a resistance to your senses being manipulated to do one thing only.
That said, I'm pretty sure the info dump is relative to the victim's own processing speed. Regular humans were suspended after just 0.2 seconds of it and were cooked for months, Curses were only affected for 299 seconds but that's only cuz their brain is physiologically different. Sukuna who's Hypersonic or whatever was only caught by it for less than 0.01 seconds and got suspended. If it didn't scale with his perception speed, he'd have handled that no issue (His perception speed should be comparable to Gojo's who is bare minimum MHS and at most like Relativistic or whatever). And Gojo himself processed years of information in his mind in like a fraction of a second and was fine. Sukuna shouldn't have problems if it were less than 6 months of information in 0.2 seconds by any stretch of the imagination.
But worst case scenario all it does is incap Saitama until the domain collapses without killing Saitama. Which can be a wincon tbf, he can jusst keep his domain open for a day and that'd be a win via incap or whatever but bleh
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I just saw this, i did not see everything and i don't know if anyone has mentioned this but i will say it regardless;
Doesn't Saitama in character just stands there and allow people to just beat him up until he gets bored or smth?
He takes awhile to do smth iirc, Gojo by then will see that he is dealing zero dmg and proceed to fry his brain or hit him with purple or smth, i don't see him resisting physics and mathematics manip (not sure if it works that way kek)
Doesn't Saitama in character just stands there and allow people to just beat him up until he gets bored or smth?
He takes awhile to do smth iirc, Gojo by then will see that he is dealing zero dmg and proceed to fry his brain or hit him with purple or smth, i don't see him resisting physics and mathematics manip (not sure if it works that way kek)
ShionAH
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He def doesn't just "stand there", he isn't interested much and is definitely gonna pull his punches but we see in his daily life he instantly one shots the monsters he comes across
Problem is even a sneeze kills Gojo if it lands and due to Saitama's NPI he should be able to bypass Infinity.
I don't see how this isnt a clear stomp
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If Gojo attacks him with a red/blue, he will likely dodge if he sees the AOE effect first. If Gojo tries to punch him, he will likely ask him a question about what he is doing before he punches back. Depending on how Gojo answers while continuing, Saitama will likely punch him.
He tries to reason with people if he thinks there is a mistake/or there are extenuating circumstances. He will tank attacks if he is in a conversation with someone and does not think it will damage his clothes. He may dodge red/blue/purple for this reason.
Otherwise, he will punch humans if he knows they are trying to hurt him. For example...
- Snakebite Snek, tried to jump him- punched.
- 12 out of 14 times they fought- punched immediately (wanted to see his ninja moves first spare, second spare tried to let Sonic go until he put lives in danger).
- Garou attacked Saitama three times. First time - karate chop after the first move. Second time- kicked into a wall before he could attack. Third time- punched before he could land a hit.
- Every fight during the Superfight Tournament except Suiryu, punched after one attack.
- A-class criminals punched him during the Tatsumaki fight, got slapped.
- The Ninjas Hellfire and Gale tried to attack Child Emperor and got punched.
- The Heavenly Ninja Party tried to attack, got slapped before they could land anything.
AlipheeseXIV
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Not really, there are plenty of ways to bypass UV without needing that. Anyways, can OP put vote tally? Also...for this whole can Saitama interact with infinity or not deal, it's kinda ridiculous to see people saying he can't, even though he can interact with Garou's portals. Like...guys...the portal is still an application of space, that'd be like saying that a character who can interact with a water dragon can't interact with a water shuriken purely because one is a dragon and one is a shuriken even though both are made of water.
Someone please get a staff to clear this up, cuz it's clearly not gonna go anywhere if we discuss it amongst ourselves. I think it'll change votes once that's fully cleared up
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ive seen enough
upgrade saitama to Low 1-C
upgrade saitama to Low 1-C
AlipheeseXIV
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Sure, none of which Saitama has :/
If he had like NEP or was made of smth Gojo couldn't interact with that'd be fair game. I just gave one way to resist it directly.
It's because the two are different. A portal has leverage to grab onto because it creates a "physical" border through a fold in space. Saitama interacted with something that had a border. He never interacted wtih space with any of his other attacks ever (As far as I've seen anyways. I am a bit behind). It would be different if he punched space and bored a hole through it, but he doesn't (The closest he got was punching a hole in the mental plane Phoenix Man was in). It doesn't feel right to say they can grab or move Infinity based on moving a portal which is clearly different from grabbing pure unaltered space with no border/rim exposed. Something like what Uro from JJK does. I don't blame people for not buying into that stuff. Not here to argue if it would or wouldn't, but it isn't ridiculous at all imo.
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nvm
gojo stomps fra
gojo stomps fra
AlipheeseXIV
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You can say this, but at the end of the day space NPI is space NPI. It's listed on his profile, and that's the requirement to bypass infinity. Again, I advise we get staff to clear this up because discussing it amongst ourselves is really not going to get this matchup anywhere
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Space NPI behaves differently depending on who's using it so that argument doesn't really work tho :/
Context based. Case-by-case basis, etc. At best Saitama could move the space around Gojo, but it would just move Gojo along with it. But that wouldn't let him tag Gojo. If he could punch THROUGH space sure that'd be fine. But all he showcased was moving it around, and only portals at that.
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Isn't this just a mismatch? It's a stomp regardless of your interpretation.
Anyway, I maintain that Saitama just bypasses Infinity due to his spatial displacement NPI. Being able to move a Einstein-Rosen bridge (hyperspace gate) is definitely grounds for Saitama being able to interact with, physically break, or just 'move' Infinity away from Gojo. Both are spatial constructs.
I disagree with the "border" argument since Gojo's Infinity also has a border, it is just invisible. There is no physical border for a portal, either. That's just not true. No reason he can't just kick away the Infinity "construct" and hit Gojo via that.
Anyway, I maintain that Saitama just bypasses Infinity due to his spatial displacement NPI. Being able to move a Einstein-Rosen bridge (hyperspace gate) is definitely grounds for Saitama being able to interact with, physically break, or just 'move' Infinity away from Gojo. Both are spatial constructs.
I disagree with the "border" argument since Gojo's Infinity also has a border, it is just invisible. There is no physical border for a portal, either. That's just not true. No reason he can't just kick away the Infinity "construct" and hit Gojo via that.
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To be honest, I also think that Gojo's UV is super overrated, since the actual, hard information transfer rate is about 6 months of information per 0.2 seconds. Anyone with significantly higher processing speeds than a normal human being would be able to tank something like that without an issue. Saitama was able to process and master a technique that not even Garou could do, despite him being blessed with the knowledge of all forces in the universe. Which involved him envisioning his inner universe and manipulating like tens of octillions of particles simultaneously.
This is a less formal argument, but I can't really see Unlimited Void having a significant affect on Saitama because of that. Just a personal opinion.
This is a less formal argument, but I can't really see Unlimited Void having a significant affect on Saitama because of that. Just a personal opinion.
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Following
Mbpoops
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agree with this sentiment UV is pretty overrated. i still think theres an argument for infinity (but i wont argue it cause idc enough)
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If you want to say interacting with a portal is the same, then sure. But in that case you need to prove he can move space OFF of someone who's surrounded by it from all angles. Otherwise him moving the space is just going to move Gojo with it and he won't ever actually come into contact. If he broke through space with a punch that'd be grounds for hitting too.
Already addressed this
Sukuna has ridiculously higher processing speed than a human yet he got fried from only <0.01 seconds
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He did this when he entered the Phoenix Space
Sukuna's reaction speed (0.13c) is still 175x slower than Saitama's movement (22.8c), so you can't use him as a relevant example because he can only do so much in his reaction time when his other speeds are several thousand times slower.
I ask again, did we equalize Gojo's speed to be 22x FTL or nerf Saitama to hypersonic? If Saitama's speeds are all brought down to Gojo's movement speed, then UV should work as it would on pretty much any special grade aside from someone like Dabura.
However if Saitama is still FTL+, 0.01 seconds is literally 1.88 YEAR's worth of reaction time compared to a human's, so UV needs to lock him in the info processing in more like 0.00000000168 seconds rather than <0.01 if Saitama can either interact with domains or Infinity.
The problem with this match-up is again, the comical power difference introducing factors that simply could never exist in JJK. Say Saitama has CE like a regular sorceror and the sure hit lands instantly. For example, in Malevolent Shrine, if a sure hit meant the slashes INSTANTLY appear on the body but only cut into them at near SOL speeds- then in a speed unequalized match-up an FTL+ character can still fire off several attacks before the slash has finished moving through their body.
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That's not treated as spatial manipulation here I believe, but if I'm wrong correct me. Isn't it treated as mind hax shit cuz it was a mental plane?
Uh, my point was the fact that Unlimited Void adjusts its information dumping based on the opponent's perception. Which I proved by showcasing someone with relativistic reactions being fried by less than 0.01 seconds of exposure to Unlimited Void, which should be less than the 6 information worth of info the normal ass humans got which according to other people in the thread would render UV useless against faster people. Disproving that.
Plus it makes sense anyways because the ability works by manipulating the target's own senses and forcing them to process information endlessly. It works based on THEIR senses, not Gojo's.
The faster character gets reduced to the slower character's speed. And why would Dabura not be affected by UV? That's not a statement that's ever made as far as I'm aware.
If equalization increases Gojo's speed, that would include the information he dumps into people's head via UV. However again, I don't even think it's based on Gojo's own speed. Otherwise UV wouldn't even work on Sukuna. Gojo and Sukuna can process years of information in a fraction of a second and yet less than 0.01 seconds fried Sukuna's brain. That would mean in less than 0.01s UV dumped SIGNIFICANTLY more than what his domain did to the humans.
Tbf, I think the slashes in MS are much faster than the characters' it's used on. They do thousands-millions of slashes per second (from their perspective). But that's not really an important point worth continuing imo.
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I'm not a fan of this hyperspace argument...When Saitama grabs or moves a hyperspace gate, he’s interacting with a warped region of space that clearly has boundaries. But with Gojo’s Infinity it isn't a discrete object or a fold in space that sits in front of him. It’s an active, continuous spatial manipulation that divides the distance between Gojo and anything approaching him into an infinite series. There’s no “surface” to grab, no edge to displace, and no finite structure to push aside. Even if you argue both are spatial that’s way too broad. Gravity, wormholes, teleportation etc are all considered spatial but they all work very differently. I don't think being able to touch this physical portal automatically grants control over all forms of spatial manip. Does Saitama actually have anything that can cut through space like world cutting slash or something?
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It actually doesn't matter if he doesn't touch Gojo himself, since the Infinity "barrier" will move separately from him when Saitama interacts with it.
If Saitama kicks away Infinity, it will be like a wall being slammed into Gojo. He'd be getting hit by his own space barrier, which has been struck with Tier 3 force. It would be like how he smashed Hanami using his amplified infinity/limitless. The same thing would happen to him in the case that limitless is forced into him by an external force.
Also, it's not like it's always surrounding every part of his body. He often has his feet touching the ground, for example. Or makes physical contact with someone when he does physical attacks. If Saitama moves it during any of those times, then it will have even worse results.
Though I genuinely just don't think it matters regardless.
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I love how yall mfs are just debating “Nah Saitama stomps and here’s why” or “Nah Gojo stomps and here’s why”. At that point why not just close the match if either result is a stomp 
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I love how yall mfs are just debating “Nah Saitama stomps and here’s why” or “Nah Gojo stomps and here’s why”. At that point why not just close the match if either result is a stomp
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The Hanami example is proof that Infinity DOES move with him lol. If it didn't Infinity would constantly lag behind him, and when he crushes Hanami with it, it doesn't push back on Gojo and squish his face or anything like that. He slowly crushes Hanami until their DA wears out and they splatter effortlessly against the wall. If it didn't move with him, you'd see his front side look like he was walking into a wall. Not look like he's completely unaffected by it :/
Uhm, Gojo does have it active on every part of his body tho? Infinity stops things from approaching him, not the other way around. Otherwise something as simple as Falling Blossom Emotion would bypass Infinity (Which it can't. He's stated to be inviolable to like 99.99% of the verse, including by people who have FBE). Anime shows it applies to his feet by showing him step on ants without harming them. The only things Infinity less through at what it (or Gojo) deems as non-threatening.
If Saitama can't get past Gojo's main wincon it sort of does matter. Unless you mean the match-up doesn't work either way. In which case I agree. This is sorta a silly match-up.
EnderLord8
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Anyway, does infinity filter out the absence of something like, for example, the absence of oxygen? And if Saitama can move Gojo while holding infinity, he could just use BFR on him.
Also, where does the source come from that says Sukuna has a processing speed greater than a human (6 months in 0.2 seconds)? Like, where does that information come from?
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Idk where this argument that it has no edge is coming from. Gojo can manipulate space at the atomic level. He does this constantly to adjust the range of Infinity during combat. But Infinity always has a finite range from point to point around himself. There is an edge to it at all times, even if it is changing and even if it is invisible. It's also a finite-sized 'structure,' as gojo has never demonstrated infinite range. He just inserts an infinite imaginary distance between two spatial coordinates separated by finite real distance, forming a space barrier.
I never said that Infinity doesn't move with Gojo, though. I'm saying that Saitama's interaction would be forcing it out of Gojo's control. It 'moved with him' because he was controlling it in that instance, though, and he was moving at his own pace. Saitama would be applying an external force that his control over Infinity doesn't account for. He would be directly forcing Infinity away from Gojo with a force that applies to the barrier separately from Gojo. This isn't a valid point because of that.
Saitama being able to kick the space barrier means that Gojo would effectively being getting hit by the space barrier as it slams into his own skin.
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I think the best case scenario is that Saitama can move Gojo like something staying fixated at the center of a bubble. But Gojo's not really going to let himself get bfr'd cuz he can teleport 'n' stuff.
Worst case scenario Saitama can't move Gojo, not because he lacks the ability to interact with Infinity, but because Infinity is infinite distance/space via infinite convergent slices. Something which Gojo can push with as demonstrated by Hanami. Which effectively negates LS, as Gojo can just push against characters with a space they are physically incapable of crossing (Unless they have infinity speed or range ofc). Which is why I think this should be acknowledged on the profile to a better extent. Like for LS go "varies/higher with Infinity (Can push the infinite distance he creates against his opponent as a compressive force to crush them).
Granted I'd say it's fair to say this only applies to Gojo when putting more output into Infinity to crush things, otherwise anything beneath his feet would be crushed by it plus the fact objects beneath him can cause him to raise up (Even when done violently so as to hurt him IIRC). Well, actually I might need to check if that's true. I can't remember anyone trying to lift the ground beneath Gojo so I could be wrong about that. And no he can't filter out a lack of Oxygen, that doesn't really make sense. However, I'm not sure that's much of an issue due to RCT constantly refreshing his brain, which is the main part that suffers damage as a result of asphyxiation that matters (He can also just RCT the rest of his body too but eh).
From scaling to Gojo who can
1. Time Black Flashes which occur in 0.000001 seconds
2. Process years of information/his past in an "instant"
3. Can effortlessly perceive timeframes less than 0.01 seconds
4. Has Relativistic reactions
5. Gojo's stated to perceive time more quickly than everyone else.
If his processing speed wasn't fast, he physically couldn't fight at Hypersonic speed like his ratings entail. Let alone time Black Flashes accurately or all the other shit listed.
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If you concede the barrier doesn't move independently of Gojo, then this is a non-argument. Gojo would move with Infinity if it was punched. The only way you can make this point is arguing Infinity moves independently of him, as that's the only way his own Infinity could "smash into" him. And that's even assuming it would hurt Gojo for space to move into it. Which realistically I'm not even sure that'd happen as the infinity itself would need to travel infinite distance to touch himself. Realistically Saitama's punch shouldn't even move Gojo at all due to Infinity needing to travel an infinite distance to also reach Gojo.
Already covered that. At worst Gojo moves along with it, at best Gojo is unfazed because his barrier needs to travel infinite distance to contact his own skin.
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It would obviously move independently in the case that an external force is 'physically' applied to Infinity. This is something that has never happened in JJK and something that Gojo is not going to account for.
You seem to be misunderstanding my argument. I know that Gojo's Infinity is locked on him, but the issue arises when Saitama hits Infinity and it moves separately from him as a result. You have to realize that NPI means that the space will be treated like a physical object, and it doesn't include Gojo. So when Saitama interacts with it, it's like Gojo is just wearing a wall around himself. That structure can be moved independently from Saitama's perspective. Which allows what I'm saying to take place.
I wish I could think of an analogy.
It's like Gojo has a bubble around himself. That bubble usually remains around him, but Saitama can just kick the bubble away from Gojo's body. And since it surrounds him, he'll make contact with the inner walls of the bubble. Thus, he gets crushed in the same way he crushed Hanami. It's like the forcefield has been inverted on himself.
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The problem with this way of thinking is the fact that the relativistic reaction only comes from fans. The author doesn’t view Sukuna nowhere near that high in canon. Which is the real reason UV is effective against him. Bro should really be around Mach 3.
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Are we deadass right now?
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if he moves with the barrier Gojo should just turn into a strawberry smoothie from the internal kinetic shock of acceleration, no?
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From Yowai mo~ to Yowai milkshake
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