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Chainsaw Man discussion thread

Even average humans around the city (when nuclear punch happens, in a panel we are Shona bunch of civilians with the explosion behind them coming at them), some ended up as irrecognizable "corpses" or just got injured, it's kinda inconsistent tbh, death being erased shouldn't give you immunity to that
I think Yoru and Denji got blown away from the blast and the scence we saw with the burning civilians is just the aftermath far away from the epicenter so only Yoru and Denji took the full heat of the nuke, the others just got fried from the expanding heatwave
 
I think Yoru and Denji got blown away from the blast and the scence we saw with the burning civilians is just the aftermath far away from the epicenter so only Yoru and Denji took the full heat of the nuke, the others just got fried from the expanding heatwave
They didn't got far away, the fight started in chapter 214 right next to the destroyed school, then in chapter 224 denjiman goes to school to get Lil'd pawns and doesn't have to go that many city blocks to reach it, so they weren't moving that far across the fight
 
They didn't got far away, the fight started in chapter 214 right next to the destroyed school, then in chapter 224 denjiman goes to school to get Lil'd pawns and doesn't have to go that many city blocks to reach it, so they weren't moving that far across the fight
They've been moving both off and on screen throughout the fight so we dont know the exact location of where certain things take place and considering the speed at which these guys can move they could go to another city and back without problem. In 224 we didnt get any traveling panel just a zoom in on Denji shouting School and then he was there, so it was offscreen. And my og point was that only Denji and Yoru got caught in the center of the nuke, the civilians that we see get burned were at the edge from the heatwave of the explosion considering the lack of crater or empty field and the buildings were still in tact, so they were unboutedly lauched far from punch. So theres not much inconsistencies regarding the heat of the nuke as heat dissipates greatly over large distances
 
Originally I had done that, but considering how vital it was to display Yoru's fear scaling, which is directly tied to her AP and SS, I reverted back to the original format. It's hard to separate them considering how heavily linked they are.

I still think it would be cool to list the Multi-Continental in her ap section as Environmental Destruction
 
How do i calc Pochita and aging devil ´´reacting´´ to Yorus gun goddess? Pochita watch behind him when he sees the bullet barely when the bullet is like 3 meters to reach him (no other panels implying when he started reacting to it), and Aging Devil reacts to the bullet and stops time when the bullet is like 20cm from his face

do i have to assume that they saw the bullet coming from when it barely got shot by 29000km away? cuz the problem of that assumption is that the bullet is an absurd distance away of the characters, higher than whatever enhanced sight than you can argue that the character can see a projectile coming from, and that i couldn see any page in the wiki aknowledging as a possible situation for certain feats (for example the Projectile doging Feats page, like 99.99% of feats like that are, has the examples as the bullets coming from a few meters away, which any character can realistically see a bullet or gun firing from, not a goddamn intercontinetal bullet)

and if they reacted to the bullet as soon as it got shot from 29000km away, they would have 0.2 to 0.5 seconds of timeframe to move away (average human reaction too) with a Supersonic speed (from a statement scaling from quanxi to Pochita and aging devil, so using it seemingly isnt calc stacking) they can move dozens up to over a hundred meters from where the bullet is aiming at, and the Gun Goddess bullet is also not stated nor implied to have a homing ability where its gonna redirect to the target if they move, it working like a standard gun that aims at one direction

the bullet has a kind of ´´cylinder shape of a 1.56m width´´ so from the distance it would look like a 1.56m wide circle coming at you, an even average human sight could see that shape from hundreds of meters, but not from dozens of thousands of kilometers

is this worthy for a calc discussion thread about the problem of feats where a character reacts to a projectile that starts from a distance much further away than their senses can see or sense from? they not reacting since the moment it was fired?

(image 1 is only pochita getting shot, Image 2 is when the bullet is going towards aging devil and image 3 is when the bullet nearly reaches him)

w7IfCdq.png
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DgwI2iT.png
 
The aging one is fine as it is just scaling to the bullet's speed.
pochita just scales to aging.
For the Pochita one if i remember the bullet went through a building before that but it being a perception feat is kinda smelly.
 
The aging one is fine as it is just scaling to the bullet's speed.
pochita just scales to aging.
For the Pochita one if i remember the bullet went through a building before that but it being a perception feat is kinda smelly.
i assumed the feat as a possibly supportive one that maybe could be massively hypersonic dependant of the assumptions, not as a main one for the characters scaling

aging devil perceptions scaling to the bullet speed could be argued because of he being a primal devil much stronger to yoru, but his only speed comparison to her gun goddess is using time stop on the bullet and yoru and not just using his own reaction or combat speed to be massively faster or as fast as the bullet, plus how in Chapter 187 and 189, against Pochita and the others, he get sliced by Pochita, Tentacle devil swallows him, the aging devil victim grabs him, he gets to directly touch pochita to turn him into a tree while he is still midway regeneration, to then pochita slice aging devil again after Denji ates more flesh for his regeneration

in projectile feats, if a character dodges a bullet going at 377 m/s, when its 5 meters away from them, they scale to a 1/5 of the bullets speed, not the whole bullet speed itself, such big bullet like that gun goddess one can clearly be seen from further than 1 meter (if you have the reaction speed to see it at relativistic speed) so reacting to it from a further than 1 meter already makes the feat having the character be slower than the projectile, regardless if it seems that they could had reacted from a shorter distance too

also for what it seems, that destroyed building that you mention, it could have been a building in USA (Chapter 178):
first, theres the page im showing below, then theres the page i shown earlier where at the last panel Pochita ´´reacst to the bullet
aI3IZ3f.png

In Page 1, first Yoru says ´´Bang´´, then the bullets its crosing the water, then theres that building that you mentioned
in Page 2, panel 1 shows the bullet in a unknown scenario, in panel 2 its crossing water, then in panel 3 its about to hit pochita

of what i think its happening, the second panel of page 1 its the bullet crossing crossing the short water around the statue of liberty, the third panel its hitting a building in USA or whatever country thats inbetween of USA and Japan (which its too far to pochita hearing it), in page 2, the first 2 panels its the bullet crossing international oceans, and suddenly in panel 3 is meters away to hit pochita, therefore already reaching tokyo

even if he reacted from the bullet hitting buildings nearby, those building would be hundred of meters away, at relativistic speeds, hundreds of meters are just microseconds of timeframe, whichs its massively hypersonic reactions


This feat calcing is a bit of a headche tho so i may not do it because of this problem

EDIT: also if you say that aging devil scales to the Bullet speed, and pochita scales to aging devil (the later chainscaling being more reliable because of chapter 187 and 189 fight) then so pochita scales to the bullet speeds, which clearly its not the case because he couldnt do anything about it (even worse if pochita started reacting when the bullet was far away), Aging Devil could stoppeed time for it, the stopping time not being a speed feat as fast as directly dodging it o reacting from a short distance (which none of them could or did)
 
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The feat itself is fine. Adjustments would be unnecessary.
then ill ditch the calc, i still believe reacting to that bullet from at least many meters away, like any projectile dodging feat, as a feat it would put you below the projectile speed, higher scaling than it being from other stuff like statements or other feats
 
It was accepted as a reaction speed feat regardless. The fact that no distance was traveled makes that entire idea void.
 
Why bother, the god tiers are gonna be at least FTL maybe FTL+ anyway, calcing not đoging a human sized bullet that already travelled hundreds of kms using only supersonic to avoid calc-stacking when we dont even know when they start reacting to it isnt gonna give anything substantial
 
Yoru must have needed to turn ANY stuff into weapons to fight even the Tomato Devil cuz theres no other way that she would need to make over 122 (LOWBALLED) weapons offscreen in about a year of possesing Asa
´´lends me some stuff you are attached to so i can turn them into a weapon Asa, this is base Ant Devil we´re up against´´
7bX1Liq.png

(each bullet its a weapon cuz one of the bullets transmutated into mr tanaka sword, and so the other bullets did)
 
I too believe that Yoru turning an entire country into a weapon should scale to the weapon itself. Considering that as you demonstrated, every weapon that Yoru creates is stronger than it's original concept. I'll make a CRT for it considering I am almost finished with her profile.
Funny enough, I found a loophole. It's not even really a loophole, it is just blatantly how Yoru's weaponification is stated to work and it is listed on her very profile. The only reason we struggled to find it is because we could not read.
And luckily for us, Oregon Sword fits that exact criteria for us.
At least Large Island level with Oregon Sword (Forged a sword embodying the state of Oregon, a region within a nation that holds profound sentimental value to her, amplifying its power far beyond that of its original concept.)
An upgrade that scales to no one apart from the sword itself, but still looks good on the profile. A way to get past those "higher" barricades. Good stuff.
 
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Funny enough, I found a loophole. It's not even really a loophole, it is just blatantly how Yoru's weaponification is stated to work and it is listed on her very profile. The only reason we struggled to find it is because we could not read.

And luckily for us, Oregon Sword fits that exact criteria for us.

An upgrade that scales to no one apart from the sword itself, but still looks good on the profile. A way to get past those "higher" barricades on the profile. Good stuff.
1d9adt1zamze1.jpeg
 
Funny enough, I found a loophole. It's not even really a loophole, it is just blatantly how Yoru's weaponification is stated to work and it is listed on her very profile. The only reason we struggled to find it is because we could not read.

And luckily for us, Oregon Sword fits that exact criteria for us.

An upgrade that scales to no one apart from the sword itself, but still looks good on the profile. A way to get past those "higher" barricades on the profile. Good stuff.
That does makes a lot of sense, she herself has said that she loves america in chapter 210

That would mean that Yoru or asa making a sword out of a structure that they were attached to, the sword would be equal or higher than that structure total mass

The large island level result method of eljoaki5 Oregon sword calc was using rock fragmentation on the sword (as it compressed all above sea level. It disappearing), looking at Oregon total area and average altitud of rocks above sea level

Technically that could apply to aquarium spear? It's scales to an aquarium who's seemingly mid size, a few thousands of m³, and from the materials that I could be made of, be 10% of rock durability (cuz most of the building it's empty, the materials would vary from ones that are less durable than rock and more durable than rock)

It would be higher than those "at least 250 kilotons of TNT" that says on her profile, but requiring a few assumptions on dimensions, cuz only the building being 7.44m tall is what I could get from the chapters showing it, the other sizes comparison are from eternity devil making the hallways infinite
 
If Yoru was real and she was running for president/senator would you vote for her?
Id prefer if my country, argentina, stayed as an irrelevant country in the chainsawman verse, all the bullshit is happening in Japan or USA, if I had yoru as my president then she would use my state or myself to use a weapon against Pochita who she will break a minute later
 
Id prefer if my country, argentina, stayed as an irrelevant country in the chainsawman verse, all the bullshit is happening in Japan or USA, if I had yoru as my president then she would use my state or myself to use a weapon against Pochita who she will break a minute later
Buenos Aires sword powered by 16 million Argentinians would go so hard ngl
 
Too many assumptions, we never actually get to see the exterior of the Aquarium. It's not worth calcing.

No, because Power I vote Power for president.
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Yoru changing the name of Buenos Aires into a 362 billion letters long name so when she turn it into a weapon, she has a millions of kilometers long weapon with the name written on it (after she pronounces the whole name in a few years of time to make it)

EDIT: If yoru defeated the hell devil (like pochita easily did) could she claim hell as her own, and make a sword that, if hell has at least the size of earth, then would have planetary AP?
 
Too many assumptions, we never actually get to see the exterior of the Aquarium. It's not worth calcing.

No, because I vote Power for president.
S9Iyp8m.png
I would still wait for whenever the discussion about if validating Oregon sword or not it's done, and the aquarium spear wouldn't get past large building level anyway

But i may still get a better assumption of the width and length of the aquarium

Haruka states that a copy of the workers office is 20 meters away down the hallway (Chapter 114)

which means That's the bare minimum width or length of the aquarium, cuz it refers to the hallway length to a copy of a room in it, not the whole building, its left obvious that they specifically trapped into a hallway of the aquarium with access to rooms like the workers office or the bathroom, else they would had tried to get to the original exit of the building, or move in other places of the building, but all the time they are in a hallway, it's like in part 1

Also denji says that no matter how long he walked down the hallway, he wouldn't find the end (nor loop back to asa who was in the hallway and didn't move), that he would never find a wall, the hallway it's the only infinite thing they are trapped into

So I only got to assume 20 meters width and length of the building from Harukas statement (also when the aquarium is gone, seemingly most of the city block it was in also being gone, and asa being impressed that they didn't find the end of the hallway after 100 meters gives it a cap), maybe as a midball, with a highball using longer dimensions (20x20x7.44 it's 2976m³, a rather very small aquarium

The 10% rock fragmentation should be fine, in many buildings destroying feats it's assumed rock fragmentation on it, with 90% hollownes

nuclear punch scales over the oregon sword? really?
It dealt much more damage to Pochita than Oregon sword

Even more, Oregon Slash uses the population of Oregon, which was about 3.3m, while nuclear punch uses the people of Virginia, which was 6.8m, it make sense that using the people of Oregon and virgini to enhance an attack, the one that uses Virginia is stronger

Edit: both population are in 1999
 
It dealt much more damage to Pochita than Oregon sword

Even more, Oregon Slash uses the population of Oregon, which was about 3.3m, while nuclear punch uses the people of Virginia, which was 6.8m, it make sense that using the people of Oregon and virgini to enhance an attack, the one that uses Virginia is stronger

Edit: both population are in 1999
oof, hunter x hunter scalers had a similar debate about mereum and poor man's rose nuke. but to my question to gunshy, wouldn't it be better to just say the nuke negates durability and melted pochita's limbs with heat? because the destruction from that nuke seems very contradictory.
 
I have no idea whether nukes actually negate durability. What I do know is that Yoru's weaponization can be far more powerful than the original concept they are based on. What you are doing right now is appealing to the fact that the Oregon Sword caused more visible destruction than the nuke, but by now we should understand that Yoru's abilities do not function like that.

The AP of Yoru's nuke is greater than the Oregon Sword, especially considering it was her trump card against Pochita. It is clearly framed as greater damage plus wider area of effect. Just because something causes more environmental destruction does not automatically mean it has higher attack potency in every context.

She does the same thing with the Gun Goddess. It is a High 7-A level attack and far more powerful than a nuke in terms of output, but it causes less area of effect damage because it is condensed into a speeding bullet. The same principle applies here.

If nukes actually negate durability, lmk and I'll enlist it on the profile.
 
What if the reason Yoru's ultimate weapons barely cause any destruction or have real effects on Pochita despite having absurd costs that are bigger than the payoff is Fujimoto's way of saying "war costs too many sacrifices and yet, achives nothing?"
Fujimotor the goat who speaks through analogy?
 
I have no idea whether nukes actually negate durability.
they negate durability via high temperatures and radiation poisoning, assuming we're talking about actual nuclear bombs.

What you are doing right now is appealing to the fact that the Oregon Sword caused more visible destruction than the nuke, but by now we should understand that Yoru's abilities do not function like that.

The AP of Yoru's nuke is greater than the Oregon Sword, especially considering it was her trump card against Pochita. It is clearly framed as greater damage plus wider area of effect. Just because something causes more environmental destruction does not automatically mean it has higher attack potency in every context.
yeah, i understand that. i also understand the difference between AP and DC.

my issue is that the power of a nuclear explosion generally stems from its destructive power, thermal output, and in some cases the KE of debris. and here we're scaling it to none of the above.. that's why I'm questioning the scaling.

nukes are known for reaching temperatures hotter than the surface of the sun (at their core, for a split second), so doesn't it make more sense to say Pochita was burned by the heat of the nuke since he was literally in the epicenter of the blast? it seems more logical to me than chain scaling it it to large island, because doing so kind of undermines how nukes are supposed to work.

She does the same thing with the Gun Goddess. It is a High 7-A level attack and far more powerful than a nuke in terms of output, but it causes less area of effect damage because it is condensed into a speeding bullet. The same principle applies here.
the gun goddess' power comes from its kinetic energy, and KE in VS Battles tends to be overruled if the destruction is contradictory to what the KE suggests. since most of the damage would've happened off-screen, and kinetic energy is a respected concept in the verse, i see no issue with it. but it's definitely not the same principle.
 
What if the reason Yoru's ultimate weapons barely cause any destruction or have real effects on Pochita despite having absurd costs that are bigger than the payoff is Fujimoto's way of saying "war costs too many sacrifices and yet, achives nothing?"
Fujimotor the goat who speaks through analogy?
It would have just been harder for the fight to progress if the nuclear punch left to battle scenario as a wasteland, no human nor devil would be able to stand up and give Pochita blood to keep fighting or denji eat Lil'd pawns, no motorcycles for yoru to turn into chaubsamwna motorcycles, no doors to hell on the ground, no wallsfor her to hit at the end of the fight, ETC
 
I get your main point. I thought the Heat and Explosion Manip might have covered it in the P&A's, but at the same time I'm severely underestimating nukes here. I'll add the dura neg considering how powerful the wiki treats it. It's still a bit shaky to me though, but we can just revert it if anything.
 
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