Undertale Calculations - 90% of them are wrong

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Ngl UT did not have that much of MU potential in High 8-C anyways. Probably the worst tier to be in.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ngl UT did not have that much of MU potential in High 8-C anyways. Probably the worst tier to be in.

8-C is so much better

After all, I can torture you guys with such matches as Sans vs Lord Recluse

 

[WizardPowers101]

Nobody besides Dreemurs and fire monsters can use fire magic

I understand this standard but similar what Lou said, I don’t recall anything restricting monsters to any specific attack. I mean hell, Knight Knight also summoned a quasi-sun, does this mean Knight Knight’s attacks are void?

 

[Qurbonboev]

I can not recall anything saying that.

I mean that you need to prove Knight has fire magic. Otherwise you are granting her abilities, that she doesn't have just to downgrade the feat.

What about this part of the can not use section.
"There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attacks

Would be relevant if Mettaton was attacking ground or environment. If he was hitting ground, it being not shattered would disqualify the feat. But he was hitting Frisk, so this rule doesn't apply

 

[Rodriiogo]

Nobody besides Dreemurs and fire monsters can use fire magic

Not the point, also where is this ever said to be the case? Tsunderplane's attacks literally cause fire upon touching the ground, which is still part of his magic, KnightKnight's meteors spawning on fire doesn't mean he has fire magic and can just do it like Toriel and Asgore.

It actually looks like an explosion, idk what you are on.

I just showed you how explosions look in UT. This is not one of them. Read the whole thing aswell.

Wall was thick enough to not get destroyed by Mettaton initial punches, that were strong enough to shake whole building. Besides it was already agreed to be valid feat by staff in CRT, so good luck with it.

Already addressed on previous messages of this thread, will not repeat, read this:

And what do you even mean? Both Toby and Mettaton confirm the whole thing is fake and orchestrated by Alphys, I literally gave the scans on the thread. Toby even uses the space behind wall only being a few inches as an example for this. It was indeed something Alphys created.

He could've just, not punched the fake wall? He's surrounded by the other Lab walls lol

"You can't calculate ice creation from nothing using amount of energy it takes to freeze water"
"What can I use?"
"Use amount of energy it takes to freeze air"
Can't say anything, other than that calcing it that way would necessitates Ice Cap ice Potency upgrade to -218.8 C°(can freeze air), and Frisk(and potentially many others) cold resistance to -218.8 C°.

Idc whether it's a upgrade or downgrade (pretty sure it's a downgrade but whatev), point is, it's wrong and the formula used in the calc I gave should be used.

They are obviously not same legs as Mettaton(and you agreed with this notion), so assuming they are identical in proportion is not warranted.

The intent is to be the same legs in proportions as I also said. I also didn't say I agree with it, I said that's what people say, hence the quotation. Look at what I said here:

Another possibility is that, as I already pointed out in the first part and wanna point out here aswell with how the "leg attacks" stop happening after Mettaton loses his legs, it is very likely that the leg attacks in general are likely just representations of Mettaton attacking with his actual legs which would make using it's kinetic energy even more invalid.

I made recalc month ago(by Strym request) to fix this. It's still waiting evaluation, but current calc gonna be replaced anyway.

The point isn't only that the calculation is "wrongly calculated" (even though it is) it's that it's straight up unusable and not a valid feat.

We literally see him transform from Mettaton to Mettaton Ex. They are same thing, but just different modes. Mettaton concentrates more on defense, Ex on offense.

If that was the case then Mettaton EX would still have metal body. It's very likely that EX is INSIDE the box form as we even see that when Neo is killed and explodes completley, the box form simply got broken in the explosion, not pulverized like neo's body.

Reread this particular part.

Kinetic Energy based on Movement Speed is case by case - I explained why in this case it doesn't work within our standards. And here's cgms on a thread agreeing with this notion, it simply "being 200kg or more" means nothing unless it's showed to be getting heavier and heavier due to higher speeds.

 

[Lou_change]

I mean that you need to prove Knight has fire magic. Otherwise you are granting her abilities, that she doesn't have just to downgrade the feat.

Knight Knight creates a flaming meteor I feel it is self evident. They also have a sun themed attack that should be fire adjacent at least.

 

[WizardPowers101]

which is still part of his magic

It’s a her, argument debunked.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

But he was hitting Frisk, so this rule doesn't apply

I mean that's a child that can't count past nine, obviously an anti-feat...

Not the point, also where is this ever said to be the case? Tsunderplane's attacks literally cause fire upon touching the ground, which is still part of his magic, KnightKnight's meteors spawning on fire doesn't mean he has fire magic and can just do it like Toriel and Asgore.

Well, that's weird that he wouldn't get Fire Manipulation, since Tsunderplane has it for your reasons. You can't have your cake and eat it.

But yeah only Dreemmurs being able to use fire is a bad argument since we literally have Pyrope and Grillby. Maybe he was just pointing out to that you are trying to downgrade the feat but not giving an ability which is contradictory rather than literally saying it cannot possibly be fire.

I'd still say that this fire being made of magic is... weird? They are not directed at Frisk, they are behind the meteors, so they do literally nothing except cool effect. At least Tsunderplane, Pyrope, and Dreemurrs actually use it for attacks. Knight Knight aura-farming fr.

It’s a her, argument debunked.

Close the thread FRA!

 

[Rodriiogo]

Well, that's weird that he wouldn't get Fire Manipulation, since Tsunderplane has it for your reasons. You can't have your cake and eat it.

I meant having fire on your attacks doesn't mean you can utilize it like Toriel and Asgore can, slight misword mb.

 

[Rodriiogo]

As DaReaperMan said above, @StrymULTRA is coming up with something so we'll have to see what he says.

Also forgot to answer to this (assuming its for the mettaton calc) but it's the same thing I've been saying constantly:

The point isn't only that the calculation is "wrongly calculated" (even though it is) it's that it's straight up unusable and not a valid feat.

Strym's plan is (apparently) a recalculation which would fix the wrongly calculated part, yes, but I'm saying that shouldn't be the case since the feat is completely invalid.

 

[Lou_change]

Knight Knight aura-farming fr.

Knight Knight is obviously the roaring knight

Maybe he was just pointing out to that you are trying to downgrade the feat but not giving an ability which is contradictory rather than literally saying it cannot possibly be fire.

I'd still say that this fire being made of magic is... weird? They are not directed at Frisk, they are behind the meteors, so they do literally nothing except cool effect.

I mean we can't add an ability in a Calc revision thread if I am not mistaken. Anyway does the fire not have a hit box.

 

[WizardPowers101]

But yeah only Dreemmurs being able to use fire is a bad argument since we literally have Pyrope and Grillby. Maybe he was just pointing out to that you are trying to downgrade the feat but not giving an ability which is contradictory rather than literally saying it cannot possibly be fire.

It was also said earlier that fire monsters could use it as well, and since Knight Knight is neither, it’s unsubstantiated, when other monsters who aren’t either still do so, but it wouldn’t be the fire magic that both examples use, it’s just a byproduct of a different type of magic.
Tho tsunderplane’s profile does have fire manip so ig it’s a bit of a grey area.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

It was also said earlier that fire monsters could use it as well, and since Knight Knight is neither, it’s unsubstantiated, when other monsters who aren’t either still do so, but it wouldn’t be the fire magic that both examples use, it’s just a byproduct of a different type of magic.

I don't get this wall of text. If a character magically creates fire, he/she gets Fire Manipulation. I don't see how fire being contained in missiles or being on a rock negates the fact that fire was still magically created. The only way for it to not be hax would be if fire came from natural laws, like falling on high speeds (something you disagree with) or missile explosion (too unnatural in that scene).

 

[Rodriiogo]

There's not much to think about, as I said (alongside the fact they spawn on fire already):

The feat assumes the meteors are moving at Mach 5 because they are "on fire", that doesn't work because that's already assuming the reason they are on fire is because of the force exerted by Knight Knight to make them move that fast which is unsubstantiated.

Regardless for why he does it, I'm pretty sure a rock on fire would be more effective than a rock not on fire? If he can do it why not lol.
And I mean magic has also been treated as a way of expressing themselves for monsters aswell, there's multiple attacks in UT that don't make sense/are useless because of said factor of Magic

 

[Qurbonboev]

Not the point, also where is this ever said to be the case? Tsunderplane's attacks literally cause fire upon touching the ground, which is still part of his magic, KnightKnight's meteors spawning on fire doesn't mean he has fire magic and can just do it like Toriel and Asgore.

Because they are bombs, that create explosion when hitting the ground.

Knight Knight creates a flaming meteor I feel it is self evident. They also have a sun themed attack that should be fire adjacent at least.

This one actually sounds like actual argument.

I just showed you how explosions look in UT. This is not one of them. Read the whole thing aswell.

Idk what to tell you, it looks like explosion to anybody, and it was definitely intended as explosion.

Already addressed on previous messages of this thread, will not repeat, read this:

Will reread this part later.

Idc whether it's a upgrade or downgrade (pretty sure it's a downgrade but whatev), point is, it's wrong and the formula used in the calc I gave should be used

Freezing air requires less energy than water vapor(per mass), but it requires much lower energies to perform. So it's simultaneously AP downgrade, and magic upgrade. Regardless, I am gonna calc Ice Cap feat via your method, and moment it (and others) are accepted I am gonna restructure whole scaling.

The intent is to be the same legs in proportions as I also said.

Everyone can see that leg attacks are much more longer than Mettaton legs. So saying that indent was actually them being much shorter is useless.

If that was the case then Mettaton EX would still have metal body. It's very likely that EX is INSIDE the box form as we even see that when Neo is killed and explodes completley, the box form simply got broken in the explosion, not pulverized like neo's body.

I forgot one important thing. For calculating leg mass in recalc instead of using steel density, I used(according to Armor proposal) actual data of humanoid robots density. And they are usually made from more light weight and less durable materials than steel(like alloys of aluminium), so this particular objection doesn't work for recalc.

Kinetic Energy based on Movement Speed is case by case - I explained why in this case it doesn't work within our standards. And here's cgms on a thread agreeing with this notion, it simply "being 200kg or more" means nothing unless it's showed to be getting heavier and heavier due to higher speeds.

No you didn't. You should read whole thing, not just first sentence:
"Kinetic Energy based on Movement Speed is case by case: Fiction often treats the speed with which a character can move himself as unrelated to their attack power. As such feats like just running or carrying a small object, like another character, should only be used if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power or if the character uses the fast moving object to attack"
This rule applies only if you are using light weight objects to calculate KE. Thread you used says that you shouldn't use feat of lifting 1 kg sword at relativistic speed to get Moon level LS. This rule doesn't apply at all to 10 tonnes objects.

The point isn't only that the calculation is "wrongly calculated" (even though it is) it's that it's straight up unusable and not a valid feat.

So I debunked your arguments about using steel(it's not used in recalc), intend(intend is obviously to them to have different proportions), KE rules violations(these particular rules doesn't apply when calculating KE of 10 tonnes objects). What else remains?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Was asked to comment on here. And thus I have so time to leave, have a nice day everyone.

Gonna read through this later just commenting here so I hopefully don't forget

 

[WizardPowers101]

Because they are bombs, that create explosion when hitting the ground.

Not all explosions create fire + tsunderplane still has moves that spit out fireballs without the explosions, so this point is still invalid.

 

[Robo432343]

I'm going to ask a mod to delete all the derailing comments

 

[Rodriiogo]

Because they are bombs, that create explosion when hitting the ground.

Not a explosion and I strictly said "which is still part of his her magic". And the wiki agrees. Orange also pointed out how other monsters have fire manipulation on the wiki.

Idk what to tell you, it looks like explosion to anybody, and it was definitely intended as explosion.

Except there's no proof of it being one. Are you genuinely saying Toby intended for a explosion that covered the entire house to not even fully explode the pan and literally not explode the oven right below it...? I already told you what it is narratively:
"The feat is simply the oven going out of control, overheating and the fire off it spreading around the room and increasing the temperature."

Freezing air requires less energy than water vapor(per mass), but it requires much lower energies to perform. So it's simultaneously AP downgrade, and magic upgrade. Regardless, I am gonna calc Ice Cap feat via your method, and moment it (and others) are accepted I am gonna restructure whole scaling.

Fine by me aslong as that method is fixed.

Everyone can see that leg attacks are much more longer than Mettaton legs. So saying that indent was actually them being much shorter is useless.

In-battle sizes have always been inconsistent and pixel scaling should always be the last resort if we don't have any canon sizes, and if no inconsistencies are seen on the size of said object. I explained why it should be inconsistent in this case. Use his regular legs size if anything.

I forgot one important thing. For calculating leg mass in recalc instead of using steel density, I used(according to Armor proposal) actual data of humanoid robots density. And they are usually made from more light weight and less durable materials than steel(like alloys of aluminium), so this particular objection doesn't work for recalc.

Confused on what you mean. I'm saying the current calculation does this:

Spoiler: Calculation

Density of steel: 7850 kg/m3
Big leg weight: 9.06 * 7850 = 71,121 kg (Class 100)

It should not. That's it, it's not steel so it's not "7850 kg/m3". Sure it might not work on your recalc, but I was addressing the current used calc here, not your recalc.
Also dude, your recalc's source still uses a robot made out of metal/steel. The source is literally a robot made out of those same materials. Check the blog where "2.0878 g/cm^3" comes from. When Armor was making that purposal, he was still going off the interpretation that Mettaton EX is made out of metal/steel (Not blaming him obviously).
Your recalc also uses 5 legs instead of one man what the hell

No you didn't. You should read whole thing, not just first sentence:
"Kinetic Energy based on Movement Speed is case by case: Fiction often treats the speed with which a character can move himself as unrelated to their attack power. As such feats like just running or carrying a small object, like another character, should only be used if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power or if the character uses the fast moving object to attack"
This rule applies only if you are using light weight objects to calculate KE. Thread you used says that you shouldn't use feat of lifting 1 kg sword at relativistic speed to get Moon level LS. This rule doesn't apply at all to 10 tonnes objects.

A regular kick should not be accounted as a "Huge object that moves". That's basic as hell, just because you wrongly scaled said leg to absurd levels of volume and weight does not make it valid now.

• If the attack that apparently has "Huge amounts of KE because its moving really fast!!" does the same amount of damage while BARELY MOVING, there's an obvious contradiction here and it's a clear contradiction to the "if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power" section. It having a contradiction for this being the case already debunks any idea of using any type of KE on it otherwise other legs would HAVE to do less damage. You are basically saying "this leg is this strong because it moves this fast, but the exact same leg while moving at not even 5m/s has the same AP" do you NOT see the issue?
• If the attack is coming out of a character (as I explained this to possibly be the case) getting LS from it is completely unusable unless the character (or the story) stricly note how it's getting heavier to move.
• "The calculated kinetic energy value is heavily inconsistent with the rest of the cast in the series." is also a rule where KE can not be used. The current mettaton calc is ~23.61x over the other best feat, this isn't a main point, just wanna say it aswell.

Sleeping now so won't respond for some time

 

[Dalesean027]

Would appreciate if a lot of yall could like just let CGMs evaluate the thread rather than clogging with a bunch of messages, there's no reason this is 2 pages deep without even having a CGM to properly evaluate yet

This was already said earlier and somehow peeps still continued to clog it

 

[AthelChan]

It looks worse than it actually is, most of the verse is just going back to 9-A bc of that singular 10th anniv stream feat

back to the stone ages

 

[Qurbonboev]

Also dude, your recalc's source still uses a robot made out of metal/steel. The source is literally a robot made out of those same materials.

Atlas robots use titanium/aluminium alloys, and they are designed to have optimal strength-to-weight ratio(aka they obviously would be less durable than just solid block of steel).

Not a explosion and I strictly said "which is still part of his her magic". And the wiki agrees. Orange also pointed out how other monsters have fire manipulation on the wiki.

I am ok with giving Knight Knight fire manipulation (but would need opinion of other knowledgeable members first).

Sure it might not work on your recalc, but I was addressing the current used calc here, not your recalc.

Nobody cares about current calc, it's gonna be axed anyways. Why are you bringing objections exclusive to it to person who is gonna delete it?

In-battle sizes have always been inconsistent and pixel scaling should always be the last resort if we don't have any canon sizes, and if no inconsistencies are seen on the size of said object. I explained why it should be inconsistent in this case. Use his regular legs size if anything.

There are no inconsistency, Mettaton summons legs for attack, which are similar to his leg, but are much bigger, there can be several of them in same time. They are somewhat linked to Mettaton itself, but they are not they legs.

A regular kick should not be accounted as a "Huge object that moves".

It's not regular kick, it's kick done by heavy metallic leg.

"if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power"

Do you have selective blindness or something? Full sentence says:
"As such feats like just running or carrying a small object, like another character, should only be used if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power or if the character uses the fast moving object to attack"
If legs were small objects objection would apply, but it's not a small object.

If the attack is coming out of a character (as I explained this to possibly be the case)

It's not a case, since there could be at most 5-6 legs simultaneously.

The current mettaton calc is ~23.61x over the other best feat, this isn't a main point, just wanna say it aswell

Again, current calc is gonna be axed regardless, and recalc as most would be x5 higher than other best feat, so this objection doesn't work

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm tired, boss.

A lot of this is just... wrong, but I can't comment on anything rn due to irl concerns, y'all better not FRA anything yet until I come.

 

[Dalesean027]

It's not regular kick, it's kick done by heavy metallic leg.

ngl this calc does also seem iffy to me because being real unless we can prove bro has size manip or summoning why wouldn't the sprite there just be representative of him just kicking normally rather than its current calcs acting as if bro is summoning giant legs

 

[WizardPowers101]

I'm tired, boss.

A lot of this is just... wrong, but I can't comment on anything rn due to irl concerns, y'all better not FRA anything yet until I come.

"Nothing goes through without MY word.." spoken like a true alpha.

 

[StrymULTRA]

ngl this calc does also seem iffy to me because being real unless we can prove bro has size manip or summoning why wouldn't the sprite there just be representative of him just kicking normally rather than its current calcs acting as if bro is summoning giant legs

Buttin in a last time, but it's because otherwise he'd have like 6 legs at once? It's far more logical to assume these are just leg-shaped bullets than to just say that he's literally just kicking, Papyrus also can use bullets shaped after his own body parts (bullets).

 

[DaReaperMan]

Buttin in a last time, but it's because otherwise he'd have like 6 legs at once? It's far more logical to assume these are just leg-shaped bullets than to just say that he's literally just kicking, Papyrus also can use bullets shaped after his own body parts (bullets).

He has eight legs, like a spider.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Buttin in a last time, but it's because otherwise he'd have like 6 legs at once? It's far more logical to assume these are just leg-shaped bullets than to just say that he's literally just kicking, Papyrus also can use bullets shaped after his own body parts (bullets).

If those are bullets, why would it scale to LS?

 

[StrymULTRA]

If those are bullets, why would it scale to LS?

UES.

 

[Dalesean027]

If those are bullets, why would it scale to LS?

yeah this shouldn't be the case anyways then if its being scaled to LS

I'd personally say its just exaggerating a barrage of kicks rather than just being super giant legs or bullets but if this is what that's being used as then LS needs to be axed regarldess

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

UES.

That's not how UES works AT ALL. We don't scale the physical of the character just because they can create energy projectiles/bullets.

 

[Dalesean027]

UES.

that doesn't explain why what you're considering a blast or projectile attacks scales to LS? that's fine if you want to equate AP and stuff but LS is a different matter especially when you're claiming its not by something he physically does himself.

 

[Qurbonboev]

that doesn't explain why what you're considering a blast or projectile attacks scales to LS? that's fine if you want to equate AP and stuff but LS is a different matter especially when you're claiming its not by something he physically does himself.

Idea is that he lifted those projectiles, so it should scale to his Telekinesis(and by UES to others).

Shameless plugging. I already planned to do recalc of important feats, and re implement problems from scratch(since problems with current Mettaton feats were already known to me). So can any CGM to check these calcs: Mettaton calc fix, him shaking building, Ice cap recalc, amd some other important quick calcs.

 

[Dalesean027]

Idea is that he lifted those projectiles, so it should scale to his Telekinesis(and by UES to others).

If you wanna argue he has TK then that's another matter but right now its scaled as his regular physical LS

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Idea is that he lifted those projectiles, so it should scale to his Telekinesis(and by UES to others).

Forgive me since I'm pretty out of date with UT scaling in the wiki, but why are we assuming such random and specific ability like Telekinesis? Such thing doesn't even exist in Mettaton's profile

 

[Da3ggman]

Beat me to some of these

I don’t care to comment on most, but def agree on axing the Leg shit. I don’t know how any sane human being could come to the conclusion that Mettaton just randomly ******* spawned in 6 giant detached legs and moved them with telekinesis or whatever at supersonic speeds (something he’s literally never shown doing before) or something, instead of it just being….telegraphed representations of him kicking you.

Occums Razor, anyone?

 

[Qurbonboev]

If you wanna argue he has TK then that's another matter but right now its scaled as his regular physical LS

Strym is the one that proposed scaling, so I am waiting for his words.

For now, I am more interested in evaluating new calcs:

So can any CGM to check these calcs: Mettaton calc fix, him shaking building, Ice cap recalc, amd some other important quick calcs.

 

[GPR_Shadow]

It actually looks like an explosion, idk what you are on.

I just realized, the explosion used in that scene is the same as Mettaton's destroyed the wall feats, idk if this help anything

 

[Rodriiogo]

Atlas robots use titanium/aluminium alloys, and they are designed to have optimal strength-to-weight ratio(aka they obviously would be less durable than just solid block of steel).

Titanium and Aluminum are both lightweight metals, titanium is straight up more durable than steel and aluminium is damn near the same (steel is only 2-3 more times durable). The whole point is that mettaton ex's body is not made out of metal at all, while his box form is.

There are no inconsistency, Mettaton summons legs for attack, which are similar to his leg, but are much bigger, there can be several of them in same time. They are somewhat linked to Mettaton itself, but they are not they legs.

I will ask yet again. If Mettaton can just summon legs at his will. Why does he not use it after he uses his own legs, and why does he not replace his own legs when they detached from his body. The whole point is that the intent of those legs are indeed to be the same size as his regular ones not over 2x bigger for NO REASON just because pixelscaling said so.

It's not regular kick, it's kick done by heavy metallic leg.

So... still a kick...? Also, not metalic.

Do you have selective blindness or something? Full sentence says:
"As such feats like just running or carrying a small object, like another character, should only be used if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power or if the character uses the fast moving object to attack"
If legs were small objects objection would apply, but it's not a small object.

Any movement of characters doesn't apply to LS unless they are giants, which, I'm gonna tell you, Mettaton EX... is not. He doesn't even apply to Large Size 0, his entire height is around 226.76cm using Frisk (Note that you are tryna argue his legs are 6 meters in length when thats bigger than his entire body... lmao), also you ignored one biggg important point:

• If the attack that apparently has "Huge amounts of KE because its moving really fast!!" does the same amount of damage while BARELY MOVING, there's an obvious contradiction here and it's a clear contradiction to the "if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power" section. It having a contradiction for this being the case already debunks any idea of using any type of KE on it otherwise other legs would HAVE to do less damage. You are basically saying "this leg is this strong because it moves this fast, but the exact same leg while moving at not even 5m/s has the same AP" do you NOT see the issue?

Answer this real quick, just because it isn't straight up said to you on the page word by word doesn't mean that a fiction CONTRADICTING THE IDEA that more speed equates more power doesn't make KE invalid, this should be common sense that not everything is said on the page and you gotta apply a bit of logic when making an argument aswell.

Buttin in a last time, but it's because otherwise he'd have like 6 legs at once? It's far more logical to assume these are just leg-shaped bullets than to just say that he's literally just kicking, Papyrus also can use bullets shaped after his own body parts (bullets).

The whole thing are representations not to be taken literal is my complaint here, Undertale is a very limited game in terms of graphics and movement due to how it's battles work. You have a flexing competition with Aaron during his fight so his attacks represent him flexing, this doesn't mean he has 3 arms cause you can see 3 arms on screen now, the whole point of the battle box is a representation. The multiple legs of Mettaton is to represent him kicking not to a literal degree of course but still him kicking, its the whole reason he can't use any more leg attacks after he loses his legs, or why he can't just remake his own legs for his body after they explode out of his body and needs Alphys to create new ones. He can't just "create legs", we gotta stop taking everything on-screen literally when it comes to stuff like this.

Regardless, the feat is still unusable because of all other points I said, not just LS either, AP aswell.

Forgive me since I'm pretty out of date with UT scaling in the wiki, but why are we assuming such random and specific ability like Telekinesis? Such thing doesn't even exist in Mettaton's profile

It's via ghosts (which Mettaton is) having it in the monster physiology page. (Which wouldn't be a reason to apply to to literally every attack they do imo but whatev)

 

[Qurbonboev]

The whole point is that mettaton ex's body is not made out of metal at all, while his box form is.

Wait, are you deadass arguing that Mettaton Ex isn't metallic? Can you bring arguments about why this robot(that runs on battery, and have heart that emits electricity) isn't made from metal?(You had same arguments for it, but nothing of it was convincing).

Answer this real quick

"As such feats like just running or carrying a small object, like another character, should only be used if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power or if the character uses the fast moving object to attack"
This rule only applies if you are trying to calculate KE of small objects. We are not arguing that lifting 1 kg sword to strike at relativistic speeds is Mountain level AP. We are arguing that Mettaton actually can summon 12 tonn legs as bullets that move as supersonic speed. If you think that he doesn't actually summon 12 tonn legs for attacks it's reasonable objection. But bringing irrelevant to this discussion rule isn't reasonable at all, and just makes whole thing insufferable.

I will ask yet again. If Mettaton can just summon legs at his will

I and other knowledgeable members would answer after awhile.