Undertale Calculations - 90% of them are wrong

[Rodriiogo]

Fair and simple, I think alot of the calculations in the UNDERTALE page are wrong.

Pyrope's Bomb
The calculation is using 20 PSI for no apparent reason. This should be replaced with a lower PSI as the explosion causes no visible destruction and doesn't even kill Frisk when they get hit. There's no justification for the usage of 20PSI.

Undyne's oven explodes
There is no evidence for this being a explosion, we see how Toby portrays explosions on multiple occasions, and it's nothing like in here. The feat is simply the oven going out of control, overheating and the fire off it spreading around the room and increasing the temperature. It's also illogical to begin with considering said (currently) "small building" explosion/fire did not even burn the wood table, chair, door or anything close to it.
PS: The calculation also forgot to take into account the surface area of Frisk and Undyne which would make the result far lower.

Knight Knight Summons Meteors
The feat assumes the meteors are moving at Mach 5 because they are "on fire", that doesn't work because that's already assuming the reason they are on fire is because of the force exerted by Knight Knight to make them move that fast which is unsubstantiated. The "meteors" are on fire the moment they are summoned:

(Video of the meteors being summoned)
This is simply magic being used, there's no proof said fire is produced by raw speed.

Mettaton Destroys Metal Wall
The space that the hole leads to is only a few feet wide (because Mettaton had to be there), the wall is likely a shallow wall made it so Mettaton can break through it. Toby confirmed this in the 10th anniversary stream to be a indicator that everything that was hapenning was fake as it gets confirmed later in the route that it was orchestrated by Alphys. The feat just isn't valid.
It has been agreed that this feat will be discussed in a CRT instead of a CGM thread due to being more viewed on lore interpretations. (Comment)

Flowey moves an elevator at subsonic speeds
This calculation relies on far too many assumptions. The timeframe used for the kinetic energy is “6.73333333333” seconds, based on the timeframe of the video itself, but that doesn’t hold up. The video does not show the entire thing, it cuts midway through and then time-skips to a point where Frisk is already out of the elevator. The previous version of the calculation attempted to use "15 seconds", but there is zero evidence supporting that number either. We simply do not have a reliable timeframe, so giving it any value is nothing more than headcanon and unjustified overscaling. I also wanna point out that Flowey is shown to be able to use multiple vines, and when the door is closed we see multiple of them covering it, so the feat of lifting in itself would be divided by an unknown amount of vines and would be, therefore, incalculable.

Ice Cap created large ice cones
The calculation is fine up until the final part, where it uses "2638880 J/kg" for the creation of the ice. That isn't how you calculate ice creation from nothing, as it is using the energy required to freeze water into ice, Ice Cap did not freeze water into ice, it was ice created from nothing via his magic. The better and correct method would be to use the atmosphere, as shown in this calculation. (Note: This issue has already been addressed for a similar feat earlier in this thread)

Mettaton EX's supersonic kicks
First off I wanna point out that the calculation is just wrong.

• Despite the pixel scaling being correct, it makes no sense and is extremely inconsistent for Mettaton's leg to be "6 meters" in length. Despite it "not being connected to Mettaton" as it's his attacks, it is shown that once he loses his legs, he no longer uses any leg attacks so the intent is that they are indeed supposed to be the same legs he has at least in proportions, and his legs are not 6 meters in length at all.
• It uses 100% steel for Mettaton's leg for it's density so it can get it's weight. Robots are not 100% steel at all and regardless, even if they were, Mettaton EX's body should not be made out of steel. It is confirmed by the Check stats that the reason Mettaton Box has such a high defense and can't be damaged at all by Frisk's attacks is because of how durable his metal body is, this is even repeated three times across every encounter. Meanwhile, Mettaton's EX body can be damaged by Frisk's regular attacks so it being made out of steel makes absolutely no sense narratively considering metal was already too durable for Frisk. | CORRECTION: As brought up by @SnakesCity in this comment , Mettaton EX does still have some metal in his body via this dialogue, so it being metal is not entirely wrong however the one being used (steel) is still wrong regardless and a lower metal would be used, but as I will say in the next paragraph, it doesn't really matter considering the feat is completely invalid.

But second off, the feat should not be valid at all to begin with.
The feat is breaking one of the current Kinetic Energy rules:

Spoiler: KE Rules

Kinetic Energy based on Movement Speed is case by case: Fiction often treats the speed with which a character can move himself as unrelated to their attack power. As such feats like just running or carrying a small object, like another character, should only be used if the fiction has made clear that the speed of the movement correlates to the character's power or if the character uses the fast moving object to attack. Calculating the energy necessary for moving large structures at great speeds, using the speed things move as a secondary effect of an attack, throwing objects at great speeds etc. are all acceptable methods of quantifying a characters power regardless.

This is one of the cases where it's completely invalid to do this as there's nothing making it clear that the speed of the movement is the reason his attacks are so strong, in-fact, the complete opposite happens, the "supersonic legs" do the same exact damage as legs that are barely moving, Kinetic Energy has nothing and was never meant to do with the potency of the attack in this case so using it to calculate the potency of the attack is nothing short of weird. Another possibility is that, as I already pointed out in the first part and wanna point out here aswell with how the "leg attacks" stop happening after Mettaton loses his legs, it is very likely that the leg attacks in general are likely just representations of Mettaton attacking with his actual legs which would make using it's kinetic energy even more invalid.
This obviously also applies to the lifting strength section of the feat and not just the AP, but I also wanna point out that those kicks are moving at linear speed theres no shown acceleration or force so it is also calculated wrongly regardless.

This point would likely also apply to this, this calculation and maybe this one aswell (However this one I'm not so sure)
NOTE: I wanna point out that Armor, a Calc Group member, also had other issues with the calculation in the comments, I don't wanna repeat them here but they should be brought up.

TLDR of the calculations:

Opinions :
Members:
- @DaReaperMan : Agree with Pyrope's Bomb and Ice Cap's Ice ; Neutral on KnightKnight's Meteors and Mettaton EX's Supersonic kicks (Comment)
- @Baken384 : Agree with everything (Comment)
- @Da3ggman : Agree with Mettaton EX's Supersonic kicks (Comment)

Calc Group Members:
-@ElJoaki5 : Agree with Everything (Comment1 ; Comment2 ; Comment3)
-@AbaddonTheDisappointment : Agree with Pyrope's Bomb, Ice Cap's Ice, KnightKnight's Meteors, and Mettaton EX's Supersonic kicks ; Neutral on Oven Explosion ; Disagree with Flowey's Elevator (Comment)
-@Armorchompy : Agree with Pyrope's Bomb, Ice Cap's Ice, KnightKnight's Meteors and Mettaton EX's Supersonic kicks, Neutral on Flowey's Elevator (Comment ; Comment2)
-@M3X_2.0 : Agree with Everything (Comment)
-@Dalesean027 : Agree with Everything (Comment)

 

[Mommyleona]

Yes yes
Good job

 

[AmonInChains]

bro is nuking the whole verse

 

[Rodriiogo]

bro is nuking the whole verse

It looks worse than it actually is, most of the verse is just going back to 9-A bc of that singular 10th anniv stream feat

 

[God_of_perversion]

This suck ass on so many levels

 

[Robo432343]

This suck ass on so many levels

Can you not? Salty UT wankers smh

 

[Rodriiogo]

This suck ass on so many levels

Great input

 

[Kellex]

Undertale just got downgraded not too long ago bruh

Following for now

 

[DaReaperMan]

Mettaton Destroys Metal Wall
The space that the hole leads to is only a few feet wide (because Mettaton had to be there), the wall is likely a shallow wall made it so Mettaton can break through it. Toby confirmed this in the 10th anniversary stream to be a indicator that everything that was hapenning was fake as it gets confirmed later in the route that it was orchestrated by Alphys. The feat just isn't valid.

"It's fake!!!" Has been attempted to be used like a billion times for this feat. At least bring up something that hasn't been debunked 50 trillion times.

The calc you linked says the wall thickness was... guess this: 0.52 feet thick. Which comes from every other wall we see in the lab. This fits with the statement that the hole is a few feet deep.

Anything I did not bring up I agree with or don't care to comment on.

 

[Rodriiogo]

Before this gets messy I wanna note that this is a Calc Group Discussion thread, do not comment unless you are providing information, or it is useful for the thread.

"It's fake!!!" Has been attempted to be used like a billion times for this feat. At least bring up something that hasn't been debunked 50 trillion times.

The calc you linked says the wall thickness was... guess this: 0.52 feet thick. Which comes from every other wall we see in the lab. This fits with the statement that the hole is a few feet deep.

You are not taking into account that the statement isn't that the hole caused by Mettaton is a "few feet deep", the space behind the wall is what's a few feet wide. Alphys made that space artifically so Mettaton could pop out of it (unless you think mettaton magically teleported inside a convinentally placed few feet wide space behind the wall that always existed) so assuming she kept the same depth of the regular wall of the lab is indeed ridiculous.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Before this gets messy I wanna note that this is a Calc Group Discussion thread, do not comment unless you are providing information, or it is useful for the thread.


You are not taking into account that the statement isn't that the hole caused by Mettaton is a "few feet deep", the space behind the wall is what's a few feet deep. Alphys made that hole artifically so Mettaton could pop out of it so assuming she kept the same depth of the regular wall of the lab is indeed ridiculous.

You want to know what's also "indeed ridiculous"? An eight foot tall robot with lights for a face punching a wall, count em, eight times and pulverizing it on the last one just to start a gameshow. These punches, if performed on what you clearly think is sheet metal would have just put dents in it or his fist through it. This is basic physics.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

You want to know what's also "indeed ridiculous"? An eight foot tall robot with lights for a face punching a wall, count em, eight times and pulverizing it on the last one just to start a gameshow. These punches, if performed on what you clearly think is sheet metal would have just put dents in it or his fist through it. This is basic physics.

He could've just, not punched the fake wall? He's surrounded by the other Lab walls lol
How does it being unfazed by 7 punches and then getting pulverized by the 8th one make any sense anyway

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

"It's fake!!!" Has been attempted to be used like a billion times for this feat. At least bring up something that hasn't been debunked 50 trillion times.

Yeah I saw it several times when skimming through old CRTs. We’d probably need a discussion rule atp.

 

[DaReaperMan]

He could've just, not punched the fake wall? He's surrounded by the other Lab walls lol

unsubstantiated assumptions, Eden? Really?

How does it being unfazed by 7 punches and then getting pulverized by the 8th one make any sense anyway

How does Alphys' plan make sense at all? Plus, the guy could have just been doing damage to the wall with each punch and pulled it on the last one. That's why that value was automatically divided by 8 in the calc.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Keep in mind, I think the current stats are complete tosh for the most part. I ain't some grand UT wanker.

 

[Rodriiogo]

unsubstantiated assumptions, Eden? Really?

But Alphys, after making said hole and putting Mettaton inside, deciding to make a wall of the same exact depth as her normal lab's wall (which would just make her plan harder) is substantiated where again?

How does Alphys' plan make sense at all? Plus, the guy could have just been doing damage to the wall with each punch and pulled it on the last one. That's why that value was automatically divided by 8 in the calc.

Didn't you just say: "These punches, if performed on what you clearly think is sheet metal would have just put dents in it or his fist through it. This is basic physics." as a point? This also applies to a real wall man, if it is slowly pulverizing it, destruction would be very much visible since the very first punch. You just complained about eden making unsubstantiated assumptions yet your defense is a thing that you have no proof of?

 

[DaReaperMan]

But Alphys, after making said hole and putting Mettaton inside, deciding to make a wall of the same depth as his normal lab's wall (which would just make her plan harder) is substantiated where again?

Basic knowledge of how strong she made her own ******* creation. Unless you think Mettaton is 9-C? Nono, Reddit, so he's 10-B at best.

Didn't you just say: "These punches, if performed on what you clearly think is sheet metal would have just put dents in it or his fist through it. This is basic physics." as a point? This also applies to a real wall man, if it is slowly pulverizing it, destruction would be very much visible since the very first punch. You just complained about eden making unsubstantiated assumptions yet your defense is a thing that you have no proof of?

In steel? Mate, there is a major difference between paper thin sheet steel and a brick of steel. Even the cracking in the wall is consistent as if the entire wall was the same thickness.

Regardless, I won't be debating this further. I'll simply be looking for every CRT discussing the Mettaton feat to death and quoting it to you.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I'll simply be looking for every CRT discussing the Mettaton feat to death and quoting it to you.

Funny thing, we just recently had a CRT that made it so that Mettaton broke that wall in a single punch.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Funny thing, we just recently had a CRT that made it so that Mettaton broke that wall in a single punch.

Ah. Strym. Well you know how me and him get along on UT.

 

[Rodriiogo]

Basic knowledge of how strong she made her own ******* creation. Unless you think Mettaton is 9-C? Nono, Reddit, so he's 10-B at best.

I think we shouldn't do any assumptions on how deep she made the wall due to the lack of information, therefore it's incalculable. It's that simple. Don't strawman me into oblivion here. The value that my thread is purposing for Mettaton to be downgraded to is still above the value of the pulverization feat, idc about whether mettaton is 9-C or 1-A. The feat is wrong regardless since it's relying on assumptions with actual 0 evidence at all in a feat that Toby intended as fake. The entire idea of "beating 8" times makes no sense for the thing im about to say below.

In steel? Mate, there is a major difference between paper thin sheet steel and a brick of steel. Even the cracking in the wall is consistent as if the entire wall was the same thickness.

Your claim is that he pulverized it. Even pulverization/8 would be enough to fragment the wall so if Mettaton is punching the wall each time with pulverization/8 even if its real metal, that would fragment it.

 

[God_of_perversion]

Lets debunk these if yall can't do it yourselves

This should be replaced with a lower PSI as the explosion causes no visible destruction and doesn't even kill Frisk when they get hit. There's no justification for the usage of 20PSI.

Saying that the battle box isn't destroyed and thus the feat is invalid is genuinely bogus because the battle box doesn't even exist and its just a game mecanic which only game mecanics manipulating characters can interact and frisk not dying from the explosion is a anti feat is insane since the entire lore of Undertale is how humans are super humans and thats backed up by the feats frisk does during the game

There is no evidence for this being a explosion, we see how Toby portrays explosions on multiple occasions, and it's nothing like in here. The feat is simply the oven going out of control, overheating and the fire off it spreading around the room and increasing the temperature. It's also illogical to begin with considering said (currently) "small building" explosion/fire did not even burn the wood table, chair, door or anything close to it.
PS: The calculation also forgot to take into account the surface area of Frisk and Undyne which would make the result far lower.

I don't know bro,a mad woman hitting a oven multiple times with a spear until it turns into a flash and fire is every where does sound like a explosion to me,for **** sake what kinda of oven malfuction would cause a flash of blinding light and fire to be trow every where

The feat assumes the meteors are moving at Mach 5 because they are "on fire", that doesn't work because that's already assuming the reason they are on fire is because of the force exerted by Knight Knight to make them move that fast which is unsubstantiated. The "meteors" are on fire the moment they are summoned:

(Video of the meteors being summoned)
This is simply magic being used, there's no proof said fire is produced by raw speed.

This might have actually been valid if not for the fact that Knight knight lacks any and all fire magic (the only monsters with fire magic in Undertale are the dreemurs ot monster made out of fire btw) you can't just give a character a ability it doesn't have to try to debunk something

because Mettaton had to be there), the wall is likely a shallow wall made it so Mettaton can break through it. Toby confirmed this in the 10th anniversary stream to be a indicator that everything that was hapenning was fake as it gets confirmed later in the route that it was orchestrated by Alphys. The feat just isn't valid.

This has been debunked so many times in previous downgrade attempts its not even funny.The wall make metal noises and look identical to those of the lab which should be enought proof that those are real walls,but if you want more proof just use logic,why would Alphys destroy her walls to make a fake one for those to be destroyed and a real one be made in its place

• Despite the pixel scaling being correct, it makes no sense and is extremely inconsistent for Mettaton's leg to be "6 meters" in length. Despite it "not being connected to Mettaton" as it's his attacks, it is shown that once he loses his legs, he no longer uses any leg attacks so the intent is that they are indeed supposed to be the same legs he has at least in proportions, and his legs are not 6 meters in length at all.
• It uses 100% steel for Mettaton's leg for it's density so it can get it's weight. Robots are not 100% steel at all and regardless, even if they were, Mettaton EX's body should not be made out of steel. It is confirmed by the Check stats that the reason Mettaton Box has such a high defense and can't be damaged at all by Frisk's attacks is because of how durable his metal body is, this is even repeated three times across every encounter. Meanwhile, Mettaton's EX body can be damaged by Frisk's regular attacks so it being made out of steel makes absolutely no sense narratively considering metal was already too durable for Frisk.

This might have been fine if not for the fact that the calc isn't already being reworked,did you even ask the knowlodged menbers if you should post this tread or not?

 

[God_of_perversion]

Oh yeak i forgot to mention,mettaton only attacks the wall in the last hit (as priven by the attack sound effect only beibg present at the last hit) meaning he did one shot the wall

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Mettaton is 9-C

In a good world

Saying that the battle box isn't destroyed and thus the feat is invalid is genuinely bogus because the battle box doesn't even exist and its just a game mecanic which only game mecanics manipulating characters can interact and frisk not dying from the explosion is a anti feat is insane since the entire lore of Undertale is how humans are super humans and thats backed up by the feats frisk does during the game

It's not that the feat shouldnt happen, the thing is that there's no proof for 20 PSI at all. 20 PSI is one of the top values for destructive explosions. It doesnt make sense to use it for something that does nothing

For instance, this explosion almost as big as a mountain, that KILLED sorcerers/superhumans, is only 5 PSI since it does not meet the 20 PSI standards:

Flashback feat from Kagurabachi

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DaReaperMan]

Lets debunk these if yall can't do it yourselves

I could, but I won't.

I think we shouldn't do any assumptions on how deep she made the wall due to the lack of information, therefore it's incalculable. It's that simple. Don't strawman me into oblivion here. The value that my thread is purposing for Mettaton to be downgraded to is still above the value of the pulverization feat, idc about whether mettaton is 9-C or 1-A. The feat is wrong regardless since it's relying on assumptions with actual 0 evidence at all in a feat that Toby intended as fake. The entire idea of "beating 8" times makes no sense for the thing im about to say below.

Your claim is that he pulverized it. Even pulverization/8 would be enough to fragment the wall so if Mettaton is punching the wall each time with pulverization/8 even if its real metal, that would fragment it.

That's a lot of yap and not a lot of non-igmur scans. And definitely not a lot of reading previous CRTs

The Undertale CRT!! (Low to High Tiers ONLY)

We finally finished all the revision for the second chapter of Deltarune, so we can go back a little and talk about it's predecessor, Undertale. There are a good amount of feats rendered unusable as the person who calc'd them got banned, or at least that's what I was told by a CGM, so I'm going...

vsbattles.com

Here, I found one for you

 

[Rodriiogo]

Saying that the battle box isn't destroyed and thus the feat is invalid is genuinely bogus because the battle box doesn't even exist and its just a game mecanic which only game mecanics manipulating characters can interact and frisk not dying from the explosion is a anti feat is insane since the entire lore of Undertale is how humans are super humans and thats backed up by the feats frisk does during the game

LoK already answered you on this;

I don't know bro,a mad woman hitting a oven multiple times with a spear until it turns into a flash and fire is every where does sound like a explosion to me,for **** sake what kinda of oven malfuction would cause a flash of blinding light and fire to be trow every where

Not what happened. Re-watch the scene. Undyne stopped hitting the oven before the flash appeared, the flash came from the fire/oven itself, not Undyne. You have actually 0 proof of being a explosion and I could give the same type of response to you. "What type of small building explosion does a slashing type sound and create a flash, alongside not even destroying the oven itself"

This might have actually been valid if not for the fact that Knight knight lacks any and all fire magic (the only monsters with fire magic in Undertale are the dreemurs ot monster made out of fire btw) you can't just give a character a ability it doesn't have to try to debunk something

His meteors spawn on fire, there's nothing I can do other than bring it up. You, regardless, need to prove said fire originates from the force/speed of the meteor being dragged in the first place otherwise it's invalid regardless of ability or not.

This has been debunked so many times in previous downgrade attempts its not even funny.The wall make metal noises and look identical to those of the lab which should be enought proof that those are real walls,but if you want more proof just use logic,why would Alphys destroy her walls to make a fake one for those to be destroyed and a real one be made in its place

This was already addressed:

He could've just, not punched the fake wall? He's surrounded by the other Lab walls lol

And what do you even mean? Both Toby and Mettaton confirm the whole thing is fake and orchestrated by Alphys, I literally gave the scans on the thread. Toby even uses the space behind wall only being a few inches as an example for this. It was indeed something Alphys created.

This might have been fine if not for the fact that the calc isn't already being reworked,did you even ask the knowlodged menbers if you should post this tread or not?

And I'm saying it shouldn't be reworked. It's wrong, full stop, erase it. Not the same thing.

That's a lot of yap and not a lot of non-igmur scans. And definitely not a lot of reading previous CRTs

The Undertale CRT!! (Low to High Tiers ONLY)

We finally finished all the revision for the second chapter of Deltarune, so we can go back a little and talk about it's predecessor, Undertale. There are a good amount of feats rendered unusable as the person who calc'd them got banned, or at least that's what I was told by a CGM, so I'm going...

vsbattles.com

Here, I found one for you

Why does imgur matter, and funny how the thread just says points I already addressed. If you aren't gonna give meaningful information for the thread then don't talk. Again, this is a Calc Group Discussion thread.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why does imgur matter,

1) I hope you like getting your scans randomly deleted, don't believe me, Bop.

2) people in the UK cannot see Igmur anything. It's banned there.

and funny how the thread just says points I already addressed. If you aren't gonna give meaningful information for the thread then don't talk. Again, this is a Calc Group Discussion thread.

If you aren't going to look at every previous CRT discussing the feat, then don't talk. Again, this is basic etiquette when making a CGM thread/CRT.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Why does imgur matter

He is British, and Imgur is banned there, so he has trouble looking at it.

and funny how the thread just says points I already addressed.

OP, not thread. Thread itself involves a big debate on it.

If you aren't gonna give meaningful information for the thread then don't talk.

He literally did by getting an old CRT that has 9 pages discussing the feat presented here?

Again, this is a Calc Group Discussion thread.

There are lots of Calc Group Discussions™ where knowledgeable people on the verse shared their opinions. Especially for verses where CGMs are not very interested in.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

"downgraded". Brother did not see the Low 1-C upgrade.

Only scales to three-four people in the verse lol. It is still a downgrade on the entire verse which has far more characters.

We've got VSBW users discriminating against lower tier characters and only seeing elite now????/j

 

[Rodriiogo]

Got it about the imgur part;

He literally did by getting an old CRT that has 9 pages discussing the feat presented here?

If you aren't going to look at every previous CRT discussing the feat, then don't talk. Again, this is basic etiquette when making a CGM thread/CRT.

And I'm saying all the points there were stuff already addressed or completely irrelevant. Link me to a post on said thread that isnt one of those two and I will respond. I have seen 0 CRTs addressing points already not addressed or just completely irrelevant, if I'm missing any go ahead, enlighten me, I looked through the entire thread.

There are lots of Calc Group Discussions™ where knowledgeable people on the verse shared their opinions. Especially for verses where CGMs are not very interested in.

Hence why I said: "If you aren't gonna give meaningful information" and not simply "Don't talk".

 

[DaReaperMan]

He is British, and Imgur is banned there, so he has trouble looking at it.

I'm actually not. My voice has been described as having an Eastern European accent, but I live in the USA.

Anyways, as for the thread...

• I share similar concerns with the Mettaton leg thing, but @StrymULTRA is doing something with that (NEUTRAL)
• I 100% agree with Pyrope's thing but not for the reasons given, instead for the fact that there's just no reason for it to be 20 PSI (AGREE)
• No opinion on Knight Knight. (NEUTRAL)
• Disagree with the Mettaton Wall thing (DISAGREE)
• I agree with the Ice thing (AGREE)

I hope you like adding one guy to all three categories. If you're counting blue name votes.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I'm actually not. My voice has been described as having an Eastern European accent, but I live in the USA.

Everything I knew about you... is a lie...

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I 100% agree with Pyrope's thing but not for the reasons given, instead for the fact that there's just no reason for it to be 20 PSI (

It's what Rodrigo said bruh

 

[DaReaperMan]

Everything I knew about you... is a lie...

I mean I'm not surprised, I use British insults and whatnot more than American ones, but that's because it's easy to call someone a belland and not get called out for it.

It's what Rodrigo said bruh

He yaps about shit like the Battlebox and environmental damage and whatnot.

 

[WizardPowers101]

Only scales to three-four people in the verse lol. It is still a downgrade on the entire verse which has far more characters.

We've got VSBW users discriminating against lower tier characters and only seeing elite now????/j

...? So if a character gets buffed to like Low 2-C, all 9-B characters are suddenly downgraded??? That would just mean there's a higher gap of power in the verse..

 

[WizardPowers101]

He yaps about shit like the Battlebox and environmental damage and whatnot.

2 people so far have thought he said the word “battle box”, you included.

Just so this doesn’t go any farther: THIS ISN’T WHAT THE OP SAID. 20 PSI requires

“Severe damage and demolition of heavily reinforced concrete buildings” and “fatalities [approaching] 100%".
Neither was shown in Undertale, and if it was an actual explosion, destruction would be shown to prove that outside of the encounter, but this is never the case.

 

[Kellex]

"downgraded". Brother did not see the Low 1-C upgrade.

Pal did not see the High 8-C downgrade for almost every character.
Also I literally put down my agreements in the upgrade thread lol.

Mettaton EX's supersonic kicks
First off I wanna point out that the calculation is just wrong.

• Despite the pixel scaling being correct, it makes no sense and is extremely inconsistent for Mettaton's leg to be "6 meters" in length. Despite it "not being connected to Mettaton" as it's his attacks, it is shown that once he loses his legs, he no longer uses any leg attacks so the intent is that they are indeed supposed to be the same legs he has at least in proportions, and his legs are not 6 meters in length at all.
• It uses 100% steel for Mettaton's leg for it's density so it can get it's weight. Robots are not 100% steel at all and regardless, even if they were, Mettaton EX's body should not be made out of steel. It is confirmed by the Check stats that the reason Mettaton Box has such a high defense and can't be damaged at all by Frisk's attacks is because of how durable his metal body is, this is even repeated three times across every encounter. Meanwhile, Mettaton's EX body can be damaged by Frisk's regular attacks so it being made out of steel makes absolutely no sense narratively considering metal was already too durable for Frisk.

But second off, the feat should not be valid at all to begin with.
The feat is breaking one of the current Kinetic Energy rules:
Spoiler: KE Rules
This is one of the cases where it's completely invalid to do this as there's nothing making it clear that the speed of the movement is the reason his attacks are so strong, in-fact, the complete opposite happens, the "supersonic legs" do the same exact damage as legs that are barely moving, Kinetic Energy has nothing and was never meant to do with the potency of the attack in this case so using it to calculate the potency of the attack is nothing short of weird. Another possibility is that, as I already pointed out in the first part and wanna point out here aswell with how the "leg attacks" stop happening after Mettaton loses his legs, it is very likely that the leg attacks in general are likely just representations of Mettaton attacking with his actual legs which would make using it's kinetic energy even more invalid.
This obviously also applies to the lifting strength section of the feat and not just the AP, but I also wanna point out that those kicks are moving at linear speed theres no shown acceleration or force so it is also calculated wrongly regardless.

This point would likely also apply to this, this calculation and maybe this one aswell (However this one I'm not so sure)
NOTE: I wanna point out that Armor, a Calc Group member, also had other issues with the calculation in the comments, I don't wanna repeat them here but they should be brought up.

As DaReaperMan said above, @StrymULTRA is coming up with something so we'll have to see what he says.

EDIT: wrong quote

 

[Qurbonboev]

Let me weight in

The calculation is using 20 PSI for no apparent reason

Agree with not using 20 PSI

This is simply magic being used, there's no proof said fire is produced by raw speed.

Nobody besides Dreemurs and fire monsters can use fire magic

There is no evidence for this being a explosion, we see how Toby portrays explosions on multiple occasions, and it's nothing like in here.

It actually looks like an explosion, idk what you are on.

The space that the hole leads to is only a few feet wide (because Mettaton had to be there), the wall is likely a shallow wall made it so Mettaton can break through it. Toby confirmed this in the 10th anniversary stream to be a indicator that everything that was hapenning was fake as it gets confirmed later in the route that it was orchestrated by Alphys. The feat just isn't valid.

Wall was thick enough to not get destroyed by Mettaton initial punches, that were strong enough to shake whole building. Besides it was already agreed to be valid feat by staff in CRT, so good luck with it.

This calculation relies on far too many assumptions

Neutral on this one

The calculation is fine up until the final part, where it uses "2638880 J/kg" for the creation of the ice. That isn't how you calculate ice creation from nothing, as it is using the energy required to freeze water into ice, Ice Cap did not freeze water into ice, it was ice created from nothing via his magic. The better and correct method would be to use the atmosphere, as shown in this calculation. (Note: This issue has already been addressed for a similar feat earlier in this thread)

"You can't calculate ice creation from nothing using amount of energy it takes to freeze water"
"What can I use?"
"Use amount of energy it takes to freeze air"
Can't say anything, other than that calcing it that way would necessitates Ice Cap ice Potency upgrade to -218.8 C°(can freeze air), and Frisk(and potentially many others) cold resistance to -218.8 C°.

Despite it "not being connected to Mettaton" as it's his attacks, it is shown that once he loses his legs, he no longer uses any leg attacks so the intent is that they are indeed supposed to be the same legs he has at least in proportions, and his legs are not 6 meters in length at all.

They are obviously not same legs as Mettaton(and you agreed with this notion), so assuming they are identical in proportion is not warranted.

It uses 100% steel for Mettaton's leg for it's density so it can get it's weight.

I made recalc month ago(by Strym request) to fix this. It's still waiting evaluation, but current calc gonna be replaced anyway.

Meanwhile, Mettaton's EX body can be damaged by Frisk's regular attacks so it being made out of steel makes absolutely no sense narratively considering metal was already too durable for Frisk.

We literally see him transform from Mettaton to Mettaton Ex. They are same thing, but just different modes. Mettaton concentrates more on defense, Ex on offense.

The feat is breaking one of the current Kinetic Energy rules:

Reread this particular part.

 

[Lou_change]

Nobody besides Dreemurs and fire monsters can use fire magic

I can not recall anything saying that.

Reread this particular part.

What about this part of the can not use section.
"There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack."

 

[WizardPowers101]

Pal did not see the High 8-C downgrade for almost every character.
Also I literally put down my agreements in the upgrade thread lol.

I can see you took my comment too literally, so let me break it down for you:

An upgrade (especially a Low 1-C one) quite literally negates the downgrade in question. It was simply in jest to what you said since Undertale got the buff of a lifetime.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Oh my ******* lord who gives a shit about tier 1 in a cgm thread.