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Travis Touchdown vs Statesman (World Martial Arts (8-C) Tournament: Round 7) (0-1-5)

koopa3144

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Welcome to Round 7 of the World Martial Arts (8-C) Tournament!

Vs thread Scenario:

  • All the official rules are in play.
    • If a character breaks the rules in battle, they will be "disqualified" in-universe, and their opponent will proceed.
    • Every double K.O/draw will use the sudden-death rule, regardless of whether it's the final round.
  • Speed is equalized for all matches.
  • Everything above 8-C is restricted.
  • Competitors are informed that the winner will receive 10,000,000 Zeni (convertible to the currency of their choice), while 2nd and 3rd place will receive 5,000,000 and 2,000,000, respectively.
  • Competitors will fight in character with the knowledge given (I.E a competitor that doesn't care about winning and the money, not fighting as hard as they would in a life or death scenario, or a competitor that would kill the opponent despite knowing the rules)
  • Competitors will be asked to remove weaponry and protective equipment before the fight.
    • Characters can choose to ignore the request, but if they're seen with their equipment during the fight, they will be "disqualified."
  • Fights take place in the Buu saga WMAT stage.

Tournament Thread Rules:​

  • If a character gets no arguments for around 3-4 days, the opposing competitor will automatically go to the next round.
  • If a thread gets no votes or the votes are tied for 3-4 days, I will decide who I think advances based on the arguments given.
    • If a character I submitted is involved, however, I will coin-flip instead to prevent any bias on my part.
  • All competitors are given the option to view the previous matches as they happened in-universe.

Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes 2 (Early Game)) [0.639 Tons of TNT]: 0Statesman [>0.59 tons]: 1Incon: 5
 
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Basically equal AP/Dura, Statesman has the wall of resistances and if pushed uh...
3b66e13833d1.png

Yes, that is instantly incapping people. One of whom also resists normal lightning.

Here's hoping I don't have to get into CoH skillwank.
 
looking at profiles i'm prob leaning towards Travis here

travis one shots his value while statesman just scales to a slightly lower value. Travis has time dialation to slow down his perception greatly, which would greatly help him predict and avoid attacks, he even has low-mid regen for healing and a very high LS advantage.

Travis would just KO him before statesman even uses his lightning
 
looking at profiles i'm prob leaning towards Travis here

travis one shots his value while statesman just scales to it. Travis has time dialation to slow down his perception greatly, which would greatly help him predict and avoid attacks, he even has low-mid regen for healing and a very high LS advantage.

Travis would just KO him before statesman even uses his lightning
Um, Delusional?

Statesman one-shots his value. This is stated. We are not in tier 7, this is 8-C. This is how he treats people who scale to the value who just dura negged him.

Also Travis has class 50 LS, though IIRC neither are really LS fighters. Statesman is Class M.
 
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Also: Statesman doesn't kill. Ever. He'd sooner quite literally die himself than take a single life.

I was tempted to make Captain Mako for this tournament but then I remembered Mako tends to eat people...
 
Um, Delusional?

Statesman one-shots his value. This is stated.
Oh nvm I had multiple other profiles up

Yeah their equal in ap
We are not in tier 7, this is 8-C.
How does this play a role in them using their abilities?
This is how he treats people who scale to the value who just dura negged him.

Also Travis has class 50 LS, though IIRC neither are really LS fighters.
LS matter a lot in close range conferentations

Means one guy is gonna be ragdolling the other with basic punches while the other one is gonna be unable to block anythig
Statesman is Class M.
Yeah thats my mistake for shuffling profiles (I read it as class 5)
 
How does this play a role in them using their abilities?
Not a lot, Statesman uses as much force as the situation calls for, he only tends to bust out electricity when he's on the ropes, so if you can just bypass that, he's beatable. The problem is actually hitting him but Travis fought and inconned pre-skillwank Grimgor ironhide. He can 100% hit Statesman/make him block in melee.
LS matter a lot in close range conferentations

Means one guy is gonna be ragdolling the other with basic punches while the other one is gonna be unable to block anythig
Travis isn't really going to be blocking anyways, IIRC he's sort of a dodge or parry and then counterstrike fighter with his fists. Admittedly Statesman flying is hard for him but hey, small advantages.
 
Travis isn't really going to be blocking anyways, IIRC he's sort of a dodge or parry and then counterstrike fighter with his fists.
ehh he blocks attacks in this key but it doesn't really matter since after getting ragdolled he'll prob just start using perfect dodge
Admittedly Statesman flying is hard for him but hey, small advantages.
Without lightning stateman has to rely on his fists so thats not a real aldvantage
 
ehh he blocks attacks in this key but it doesn't really matter since after getting ragdolled he'll prob just start using perfect dodge
Fair. The question then is can Travis stop himself from getting ringed out from Statesman seriously punching him.
Without lightning stateman has to rely on his fists so thats not a real aldvantage
Flying actually makes a lot of moves moot combined with his LS, the most you can do is use him rushing you to hit him harder, you can't really pull him into punches or sweep the legs or anything like that.
 
Won't his electricity kill, automatically DQing?
Clearly the man can hold that shit back enough to not kill. In that image, every single one of the people he hit with it was knocked out, not killed. Same happened to Ghost Widow when he blasted her.
 
If it's okay I'm gonna wait for ArmorChompy, because I would not put it past Travis to Loldodge that.
 
Good thing I checked this, I wasn't getting notifications for some reason.

Travis has been shocked hard enough to create smoke (meaning an absolutely lethal dosage for most people, involving serious nervous and muscular damage... honestly I probably should list this as a regen feat lol) and got back up from it. He blacked out for a bit but in this key his stamina's gotten a lot better and he has a resistance to paralysis so that's not as much of a concern. He also has high resistance to heat which at least partially covers electric damage. A single lightning blast isn't going to incap him long enough for a ring-out, provided it even hits, actually getting damage on Travis is extremely difficult. He can also just reflect energy attacks.
Fair. The question then is can Travis stop himself from getting ringed out from Statesman seriously punching him.
LS does not apply to punches. We outright forbid calcing LS from any kind of striking attack in fact, and either way people striking with 8-C AP would be imparting the target with forces a lot higher than Class M.
Here's hoping I don't have to get into CoH skillwank.
By all means, I was waiting for you to, thought it'd be rude to just drop the textwall post 1.
 
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Good thing I checked this, I wasn't getting notifications for some reason.

Travis has been shocked hard enough to create smoke (meaning an absolutely lethal dosage for most people, involving serious nervous and muscular damage... honestly I probably should list this as a regen feat lol) and got back up from it. He blacked out for a bit but in this key his stamina's gotten a lot better and he has a resistance to paralysis so that's not as much of a concern. He also has high resistance to heat which at least partially covers electric damage.
Ehhhh, don't really think this is enough to eat the lightning without being face down on the ground for ten seconds. One of those people Statesman was hitting was Tyrant who... is Statesman, same powerset and everything, from another world. Tyrant can fly. With the Weather Blast power, you can literally call lightning strikes down on people, and it does basically nothing to Tyrant or Statesman whether they're on the ground or in the air.

Basically: Normal CtG lightning<<<What Statesman can pull off
A single lightning blast isn't going to incap him long enough for a ring-out, provided it even hits, actually getting damage on Travis is extremely difficult. He can also just reflect energy attacks.
It might work, but that seems to be energy and not electricity? Eh, there is some form of wind up for what those guys do anyways, while with Statesman he just Zeuses people. But again, late game attack he won't just spam immediately. IIRC, it comes out around half health in 1 on 1 fights if we're going by his healthbar in City of Heroes.
LS does not apply to punches. We outright forbid calcing LS from any kind of striking attack in fact, and either way people striking with 8-C AP would be imparting the target with forces a lot higher than Class M.
Fair
By all means, I was waiting for you to, thought it'd be rude to just drop the textwall post 1.
That's why I didn't want to drop the textwall myself lmfao.

So basic Heroes and Villains can be Tankers. And Tankers are ******* beyond busted in CoH. Like, we're talking run through a Roman Army and barely even get hit once while you solo the entire thing one Roman at a time, busted. And then they do it again. And again. And again. Until finally, the entire place is full of knocked out cold romans. Or killed ones, if it's a Villain.

How Statesman scales to this? Well, Heroes/Archvillains are about when Tankers stop being able to solo shit and now need a support to keep their ass alive. And for the stronger AVs, that's not enough. Statesman is among the people who if you try to 1v1 with a Tanker folds you like an omelet in moments and can actually dodge your hits and whatnot. Normally I wouldn't be bringing up Cimeroran Traitors whom are those romans I mentioned, but since this is a damn near pure melee fight they're way more relevant than 5th column, Arachnos, or Malta would be.
 
Ehhhh, don't really think this is enough to eat the lightning without being face down on the ground for ten seconds. One of those people Statesman was hitting was Tyrant who... is Statesman, same powerset and everything, from another world. Tyrant can fly. With the Weather Blast power, you can literally call lightning strikes down on people, and it does basically nothing to Tyrant or Statesman whether they're on the ground or in the air.

Basically: Normal CtG lightning<<<What Statesman can pull off
Fair argument Destroyman's electricity is superior to lightning. It shook the entire room from sheer power as Travis was getting zapped, and more notably lightning makes contact for a fraction of a second whereas he was getting electrocuted for several seconds in a row, which is as relevant of a factor as the voltage of the shock if not more so. For example the electric chair outputs around 3000-6000 volts whereas lightning can reach over 30 million, and yet the former is much more reliably lethal than the latter. Similarly Travis' heat resistance feat is him getting set on fire for a while, which is also much more lethal than a lightning strike.

Maybe I should probably add Elec resistance to his profile eh

To be clear I'm not arguing this doesn't hurt the shit out of Travis, I just don't think it's an insta-KO.
It might work, but that seems to be energy and not electricity?
Electricity is energy. But it's a grey area, I'll grant you that.
Eh, there is some form of wind up for what those guys do anyways, while with Statesman he just Zeuses people. But again, late game attack he won't just spam immediately. IIRC, it comes out around half health in 1 on 1 fights if we're going by his healthbar in City of Heroes.
Travis does have precog, an instant attack isn't too far beyond him to dodge (sometimes, I'm not going to claim he never gets surprised)

I'll do a separate post for skill stuff.
 
Fair argument Destroyman's electricity is superior to lightning. It shook the entire room from sheer power as Travis was getting zapped, and more notably lightning makes contact for a fraction of a second whereas he was getting electrocuted for several seconds in a row, which is as relevant of a factor as the voltage of the shock if not more so. For example the electric chair outputs around 3000-6000 volts whereas lightning can reach over 30 million, and yet the former is much more reliably lethal than the latter. Similarly Travis' heat resistance feat is him getting set on fire for a while, which is also much more lethal than a lightning strike.

Maybe I should probably add Elec resistance to his profile eh

To be clear I'm not arguing this doesn't hurt the shit out of Travis, I just don't think it's an insta-KO.
Lightning Strikes being non-lethal only really applies when you're on the ground. When you're in the air, that energy has nowhere to go. Might not be an instant KO but it'll at least be a fast one if it hits
Electricity is energy. But it's a grey area, I'll grant you that.

Travis does have precog, an instant attack isn't too far beyond him to dodge (sometimes, I'm not going to claim he never gets surprised)
Maybe. Though, wouldn't be the first time Statesman has fought precog users since every Fortunata in Arachnos has precog that helps them dodge attacks.
I'll do a separate post for skill stuff.
Basically, you remember fighting Grimgor? Statesman is basically that except he actually dodges.
 
Basically, you remember fighting Grimgor? Statesman is basically that except he actually dodges.
Alas, my wank has grown tenfold since.
So basic Heroes and Villains can be Tankers. And Tankers are ******* beyond busted in CoH. Like, we're talking run through a Roman Army and barely even get hit once while you solo the entire thing one Roman at a time, busted. And then they do it again. And again. And again. Until finally, the entire place is full of knocked out cold romans. Or killed ones, if it's a Villain.
One could point out that super-speed 8-Cs wouldn't struggle much with armies of normal people. However Travis does have a similar feat of killing 100 armed people on his own and scales to people who've beaten hundreds, the number is lesser than an entire army but that isn't super important when it comes to group fights because only so many people, a dozen or so tops, are going to be able to threaten you at once due to range concerns. Obviously more is better but only because it requires more consistency, the actual moment to moment threat isn't any different.

Onto Travis' own skill feats, before I talk about 'em I have a few quick things to explain.

A very consistent trend of Suda51's writing is that "instinct", "bloodlust" and the ability to sense them are a very universal thing among combatants (and normal people to a minor extent). If you're curious there's this old blog of mine - In particular I'd point you to the KiD stuff which makes it very very explicit. The more experienced people are in this type of thing the better they become at sensing danger even in supernatural ways and gain the ability to instinctually react to things. It's like a verse power system except literally just about having that dog in you. If it sounds like bullshit - which I wouldn't blame you for, it's pretty strange - I can pick out some of the best evidence for you, but it is accepted on profiles. Anyways, all of this is to say most human combatants in the verse are similarly driven by this and can be roughly scaled to one another, it's a sort of Instinctive Reaction/ESP UES. From now on I'll make sure to handpick stuff just from fighters much lesser than Travis or ones he has direct scaling to, I just wanted to explain that there is a direct line that can be drawn between skill and instinct in the verse. A fighter's instincts are honed as they become more powerful and even low tiers are supernaturally aware of danger.
Onto Travis himself, even before actually getting real training and learning just off correspondences he barely ever found a challenge, and he's since received training from combat masters. Even at the beginning of the first game (Travis grows in skill a LOT through the game, going from greatly inferior to his master Ryu to surpassing him by the fourth to last boss) Travis easily stomped the 11th best assassin in America, Helter Skelter, and only gets better since. He can fight while having his perception messed with, learn wrestling moves just by watching VHS tapes of matches [note that wrestling is a legit fighting style in the verse]. Has stated that he makes his mind go blank during a fight, fighting with his instincts, which allows him to dodge surprise attacks from behind, and can consistently block attacks coming from any direction without needing to turn, even ones that would require extreme precision such as bursts of automatic gunfire from multiple directions at once. Can complete various assassination gigs which require him to defeat many enemies at once, often under a time limit or heavy limitations to his abilities (Such as being forbidden from using his weapons, or dying in a single hit), including Death Match 100, which pits him up against a hundred enemies at once.

That was all NMH1, in 2 he's gotten a lot better than ever before, he's precise enough to snatch bullets out of the air unharmed and scales to people like Million Gunman who can pull off Revolver Ocelot-style ricochets. More notably he fairly easily beats Kimmy Howell who can learn in a single day techniques that would require normal assassins entire years (and if you've been reading anything so far you understand that "normal" is a very relative term here). Note that she prepped specifically to kill him with that monster AD and still failed.
 
Lightning Strikes being non-lethal only really applies when you're on the ground. When you're in the air, that energy has nowhere to go.
This isn't 100% correct (airplanes can withstand getting hit by lightning just fine despite not being made of 9-A material) but there is some truth to it. Still my point is less that lightning can't always kill normal people and more that the time of exposure to electricity is a massive factor in the damage it can deal and thus the level of resistance to it, so while Destroyman's electricity might not have the same voltage as lightning (though given it somehow causes tremors it very well might) him being shocked for thousands of times longer than lightning would hit you makes it an arguably better showing than even taking a lightning blast point blank.
Maybe. Though, wouldn't be the first time Statesman has fought precog users since every Fortunata in Arachnos has precog that helps them dodge attacks.
Fair enough. Good time to point out Travis has fought superheroes before?
 
In particular I'd point you to the KiD stuff which makes it very very explicit.
Just realized the links are down, that's on me for not just saving screenshots instead. Here's a new link, it's a retranslation so it might not all be 100% accurate word per word but the gist is the same. I am also not responsible for anything else you may find on that website, PH51 is... a place.
 
Alas, my wank has grown tenfold since.

One could point out that super-speed 8-Cs wouldn't struggle much with armies of normal people. However Travis does have a similar feat of killing 100 armed people on his own and scales to people who've beaten hundreds, the number is lesser than an entire army but that isn't super important when it comes to group fights because only so many people, a dozen or so tops, are going to be able to threaten you at once due to range concerns. Obviously more is better but only because it requires more consistency, the actual moment to moment threat isn't any different.
It SHOULD be noted that basically everyone scales to the MHS stuff, and that it's actually around Security level 30 that you get the majority of said lightning BS in CoH. Everyone can dodge it, just some people are better at dodging it than others and AVs/Heroes are the best at it. There's no stat stomping here, it's just that CoH gets more BS at the higher tiers than most MMOs.

Oh, and, bear with me. I kind of need to pull powersets and enemy groups from my rear end here, and you'll be getting wiki pages. The main thing to note is that 1 on 1 not a single combination of powersets can take on America's #1 hero
Onto Travis' own skill feats, before I talk about 'em I have a few quick things to explain.

A very consistent trend of Suda51's writing is that "instinct", "bloodlust" and the ability to sense them are a very universal thing among combatants (and normal people to a minor extent). If you're curious there's this old blog of mine - In particular I'd point you to the KiD stuff which makes it very very explicit. The more experienced people are in this type of thing the better they become at sensing danger even in supernatural ways and gain the ability to instinctually react to things. It's like a verse power system except literally just about having that dog in you. If it sounds like bullshit - which I wouldn't blame you for, it's pretty strange - I can pick out some of the best evidence for you, but it is accepted on profiles. Anyways, all of this is to say most human combatants in the verse are similarly driven by this and can be roughly scaled to one another, it's a sort of Instinctive Reaction/ESP UES. From now on I'll make sure to handpick stuff just from fighters much lesser than Travis or ones he has direct scaling to, I just wanted to explain that there is a direct line that can be drawn between skill and instinct in the verse. A fighter's instincts are honed as they become more powerful and even low tiers are supernaturally aware of danger.
Essentially, one big Super Reflexes verse, probably a bit better than SR, but nothing Statesman hasn't seen and dealt with before. Anyone I skip is dealt with or at least is similar to something I already mentioned
Seems a bit like what you'd get out of The Family, or an Arachnos Widow. Generally, if Statesman fights either, the fight isn't lasting ten seconds. But that's him being an in-verse top tier, in actuality for PCs they're spooky if they hit, the problem is them actually hitting the PC.
    • Not only does Travis upscale due to established reasons, but he also does just no-diff KO the guy in Travis Strikes Again. That's a more skilled Travis but y'know.
Fair.
  • Bad Girl - Travis fights her to a standstill in NMH1. It's a dead even fight with both landing a lethal blow on the other (Travis manage to weasel his way out of getting killed), they were relative and he's gotten better since. Bad Girl's instinct is powerful enough she can fight solely relying on it, surpassing her father who even before learning to fight was able to stand up after being knocked out, catch an attack and then fight several people while unconscious.
So essentially KO doesn't work here. If Statesman sees this sort of thing happen he's liable to throw Travis, but at that point it's if Statesman gets his grubby paws on Travis that's GG, but it's not like Travis can't dodge Statesman. Like I said, they're probably somewhat relative in skill, but Statesman has never fought someone who can fight unconscious who also wasn't psychic so it didn't really count as a fight.
Onto Travis himself, even before actually getting real training and learning just off correspondences he barely ever found a challenge, and he's since received training from combat masters. Even at the beginning of the first game (Travis grows in skill a LOT through the game, going from greatly inferior to his master Ryu to surpassing him by the fourth to last boss) Travis easily stomped the 11th best assassin in America, Helter Skelter, and only gets better since. He can fight while having his perception messed with, learn wrestling moves just by watching VHS tapes of matches [note that wrestling is a legit fighting style in the verse]. Has stated that he makes his mind go blank during a fight, fighting with his instincts, which allows him to dodge surprise attacks from behind, and can consistently block attacks coming from any direction without needing to turn, even ones that would require extreme precision such as bursts of automatic gunfire from multiple directions at once.
Most of this, besides the wrestling this is where I call on Super Reflexes again. Bullets are MHS in this verse, or around it, so... uh... half the enemies in this game use bullets of some kind... And SR can tank stealth(Just ******* run to the end of the mission) through armies of the *******... and this is where I mention Malta is better trained and skilled than actual Special Forces and has shit like homing rockets and whatnot. I'm sure Travis has that sort of thing too, but... yeh.
Ah, the average life of a Martial Arts Super Reflexes... anything, actually. SR is like gambling, you'll rarely take hits but when you do, it's usually an Alpha strike(A one or two-shot).
That was all NMH1, in 2 he's gotten a lot better than ever before, he's precise enough to snatch bullets out of the air unharmed and scales to people like Million Gunman who can pull off Revolver Ocelot-style ricochets.
Can't really scan this, but Dual Pistols Hail of Bullets is literally curving bullets through the air and ricocheting if there's a roof. Can't recall any time someone caught a bullet but then again, I could just be not remembering it.
More notably he fairly easily beats Kimmy Howell who can learn in a single day techniques that would require normal assassins entire years (and if you've been reading anything so far you understand that "normal" is a very relative term here). Note that she prepped specifically to kill him with that monster AD and still failed.
Ehhhh, it's weird cause PC Widows can blitzkrieg from 1 to 50 in like a day, including honing their psychic powers or lethality if you go Fortunata or Night Widow respectively. And Widows often go after Statesman(Or did, he's a corpse in-verse) just to see if they can be among the big dogs.

Oh, and when I mention levels, I mean Security levels. An in-verse thing that dictates the power and skill of the hero or villain in question. Statesman is a 50, so he's cleared for everything under the sun.

Another thing to note is that, as a member of the Surviving Eight, he's had to solo armies of Rikti. Who are... advanced inter-dimensional Aliens who can one-shot kill most people and can do legit damage to people comparable to Statesman. And also have the ability to psychic blast people or spam disorients until they die with every single weapon they have. And also hit them with beams of nuclear fusion. Almost every other Hero and Villain who participated died. Statesman did the entire war and doesn't even have scars to show for it unlike his compatriots.
 
This isn't 100% correct (airplanes can withstand getting hit by lightning just fine despite not being made of 9-A material) but there is some truth to it. Still my point is less that lightning can't always kill normal people and more that the time of exposure to electricity is a massive factor in the damage it can deal and thus the level of resistance to it, so while Destroyman's electricity might not have the same voltage as lightning (though given it somehow causes tremors it very well might) him being shocked for thousands of times longer than lightning would hit you makes it an arguably better showing than even taking a lightning blast point blank.
Yeah, let's say that Travis can handle the lightning for a bit, it's not like Statesman is going to shock him till he's dead or something, since as I said, that is incredibly OOC for him.
Fair enough. Good time to point out Travis has fought superheroes before?
Hey he's fighting Superman this time! Just replace heat vision and ice breath with Zeus beating him over the head.

I mean that by the way. Statesman is Zeus. He's recognized by Prometheus as Zeus. It's just that Statesman being himself toned down the cuntinuous source of inspiration that is Zeus' personality
 
Yeah, let's say that Travis can handle the lightning for a bit, it's not like Statesman is going to shock him till he's dead or something, since as I said, that is incredibly OOC for him.
Sounds good.
Essentially, one big Super Reflexes verse, probably a bit better than SR, but nothing Statesman hasn't seen and dealt with before. Anyone I skip is dealt with or at least is similar to something I already mentioned
Well it's not just IR (though the IR is better than Super Reflexes, there's a similarity but you don't get stuff like this), it's also a kind of innate acumen/intuition regarding the situation. Consistency varies but at it's best it gets you silly shit like "Travis' body refuses to kill his opponent because he unconsciously senses it's his grandson from the future" and generally it's a huge boon in fights.
Seems a bit like what you'd get out of The Family, or an Arachnos Widow. Generally, if Statesman fights either, the fight isn't lasting ten seconds. But that's him being an in-verse top tier, in actuality for PCs they're spooky if they hit, the problem is them actually hitting the PC.
I dunno, the feats I'm highlighting here are less "he can fight hitmen" and more the ability to do so vs hundreds while at a huge visibility disadvantage, and also the various fancy superhuman techniques he's got.
So essentially KO doesn't work here. If Statesman sees this sort of thing happen he's liable to throw Travis, but at that point it's if Statesman gets his grubby paws on Travis that's GG, but it's not like Travis can't dodge Statesman. Like I said, they're probably somewhat relative in skill, but Statesman has never fought someone who can fight unconscious who also wasn't psychic so it didn't really count as a fight.
Nah, I'm posting this as a skill thing. Travis can be KO'd, I'm just showing how good the IR gets in the verse even just up to the level that Travis is here.
Malta is better trained and skilled than actual Special Forces and has shit like homing rockets and whatnot. I'm sure Travis has that sort of thing too, but... yeh.
Down to the specifics of "super skilled ex-vet with homing rockets", yes.
Can't really scan this, but Dual Pistols Hail of Bullets is literally curving bullets through the air and ricocheting if there's a roof. Can't recall any time someone caught a bullet but then again, I could just be not remembering it.
Alrighty.
Ehhhh, it's weird cause PC Widows can blitzkrieg from 1 to 50 in like a day, including honing their psychic powers or lethality if you go Fortunata or Night Widow respectively. And Widows often go after Statesman(Or did, he's a corpse in-verse) just to see if they can be among the big dogs.
That sounds a little worse than her AD still, mostly cause it's less explicit.
Oh, and when I mention levels, I mean Security levels. An in-verse thing that dictates the power and skill of the hero or villain in question. Statesman is a 50, so he's cleared for everything under the sun.
Sure.
Another thing to note is that, as a member of the Surviving Eight, he's had to solo armies of Rikti. Who are... advanced inter-dimensional Aliens who can one-shot kill most people and can do legit damage to people comparable to Statesman. And also have the ability to psychic blast people or spam disorients until they die with every single weapon they have. And also hit them with beams of nuclear fusion. Almost every other Hero and Villain who participated died. Statesman did the entire war and doesn't even have scars to show for it unlike his compatriots.
Fair enough.

Based on this I'd say Travis has a mild edge? Nothing crazy but I do think there's an advantage purely skill-wise. The two characters are roughly comparable in terms of versatility, Statesman is better in terms of fighting large groups but when it comes to 1v1s it seems like KTP has a bit more impressive techniques and superhuman precision, + the instinct stuff is significant. I'm assuming there's a bunch of random impressive foes you haven't shown but that is also true for NMH so that should more or less even out, especially cause Travis is constantly facing attempts at his life off-screen.
 
Sounds good.

Well it's not just IR (though the IR is better than Super Reflexes, there's a similarity but you don't get stuff like this), it's also a kind of innate acumen/intuition regarding the situation. Consistency varies but at it's best it gets you silly shit like "Travis' body refuses to kill his opponent because he unconsciously senses it's his grandson from the future" and generally it's a huge boon in fights.

I dunno, the feats I'm highlighting here are less "he can fight hitmen" and more the ability to do so vs hundreds while at a huge visibility disadvantage, and also the various fancy superhuman techniques he's got.

Nah, I'm posting this as a skill thing. Travis can be KO'd, I'm just showing how good the IR gets in the verse even just up to the level that Travis is here.

Down to the specifics of "super skilled ex-vet with homing rockets", yes.

Alrighty.

That sounds a little worse than her AD still, mostly cause it's less explicit.

Sure.

Fair enough.

Based on this I'd say Travis has a mild edge? Nothing crazy but I do think there's an advantage purely skill-wise. The two characters are roughly comparable in terms of versatility, Statesman is better in terms of fighting large groups but when it comes to 1v1s it seems like KTP has a bit more impressive techniques and superhuman precision, + the instinct stuff is significant. I'm assuming there's a bunch of random impressive foes you haven't shown but that is also true for NMH so that should more or less even out, especially cause Travis is constantly facing attempts at his life off-screen.
Yeah it goes both ways, 1 on 1 I think Travis has a small advantage, but Statesman can also fly and has LS in the bag... lightning doesn't work cause Travis can fight unconscious...

Huh. I'm thinking incon?
 
Yeah it goes both ways, 1 on 1 I think Travis has a small advantage, but Statesman can also fly and has LS in the bag...
True
lightning doesn't work cause Travis can fight unconscious...
He can't, the Bad Girl thing is just for skill scaling, I don't think he can replicate that given he does black out a few times in the series (like vs Destroyman in the electricity thing) - Enough lightning can probably KO him, as can enough physical harm, it's just a question of him having really good stamina.
Huh. I'm thinking incon?
I'd like to discuss a few more tricks up Travis' sleeve first.
  • Firstly Travis has the ability to stun enemies with his strikes, either with a full punch combo or with a guard break attack, this lets him get a guaranteed follow-up like a wrestling move, which is a part of his kit he'd otherwise be unable to use due to the LS gap.
    • The guidebook stuff is MTL'd and honestly idk why I did that, I did make a CRT to get it approved and even pointed it out there, but I still should've gotten approval. It's simply outlining gameplay abilities you could just test in the game so it's probably ok but, still
  • Most notably among Travis' abilities is the Dark Step, a perfect dodge ability that lets him slow down time if he gets a perfectly timed full-body dodge. It's a gameplay thing so unclear how strict it is but by all means it is an advantage, lets him get a stun off and then a big hit to capitalize on that.
  • NMH2 has a thing called a Tension Gauge, meaning the better Travis does the more powerful, agile and fast he gets. Obviously it's of limited use vs a comparable foe but both have really high stamina and if there's a long back and forth inevitably there's gonna be periods where one is doing better than the other, and when it's Travis' turn he'll be able to extra capitalize on that.
  • Finally this is minor but Henry, Travis' rival and physical equal, can jump really high. Fairly noteworthy given flight is an argument here, though obviously it's still an advantage for Statesman.
Incon is reasonable but I also think there's an argument Travis high-diffs. I'll vote for whatever others prefer.
 
True

He can't, the Bad Girl thing is just for skill scaling, I don't think he can replicate that given he does black out a few times in the series (like vs Destroyman in the electricity thing) - Enough lightning can probably KO him, as can enough physical harm, it's just a question of him having really good stamina.
Ah okay, so... basically Statesman CAN knock him out, so that's something good.
I'd like to discuss a few more tricks up Travis' sleeve first.
  • Firstly Travis has the ability to stun enemies with his strikes, either with a full punch combo or with a guard break attack, this lets him get a guaranteed follow-up like a wrestling move, which is a part of his kit he'd otherwise be unable to use due to the LS gap.
    • The guidebook stuff is MTL'd and honestly idk why I did that, I did make a CRT to get it approved and even pointed it out there, but I still should've gotten approval. It's simply outlining gameplay abilities you could just test in the game so it's probably ok but, still
  • Most notably among Travis' abilities is the Dark Step, a perfect dodge ability that lets him slow down time if he gets a perfectly timed full-body dodge. It's a gameplay thing so unclear how strict it is but by all means it is an advantage, lets him get a stun off and then a big hit to capitalize on that.
um... Armor...? I dunno how to say this but... Statesman resists Time Slow... and Time Stop... and disorients/stuns kinda just don't work on Hero-class enemies and they haven't worked on him in comics... Dark Step is good in theory, but Statesman has the MMO Boss-mandated wall of resistances, and his time manip resistance is one of the competent ones.

Basically, half those resistances are glorified damage reduction, but half of them are from Dominator powersets and are actually how you'd expect a resistance to act in a vs thread.
  • NMH2 has a thing called a Tension Gauge, meaning the better Travis does the more powerful, agile and fast he gets. Obviously it's of limited use vs a comparable foe but both have really high stamina and if there's a long back and forth inevitably there's gonna be periods where one is doing better than the other, and when it's Travis' turn he'll be able to extra capitalize on that.
Now this is actually useful, basically means that if Travis successfully dodges and lands hits enough it's going to be easier on him to do shit.
  • Finally this is minor but Henry, Travis' rival and physical equal, can jump really high. Fairly noteworthy given flight is an argument here, though obviously it's still an advantage for Statesman.
Honestly main reason flight is good is that Statesman's LS stops most grappling or proper leg sweeps because he's flying, not because he's going to fly high and spam electricity.
Incon is reasonable but I also think there's an argument Travis high-diffs. I'll vote for whatever others prefer.
There's also an argument the other way, so that's why I'm thinking incon as the middle ground. Both have about even advantages and disadvantages against eachother IMO
 
um... Armor...? I dunno how to say this but... Statesman resists Time Slow... and Time Stop... and disorients/stuns kinda just don't work on Hero-class enemies and they haven't worked on him in comics... Dark Step is good in theory, but Statesman has the MMO Boss-mandated wall of resistances, and his time manip resistance is one of the competent ones.

Basically, half those resistances are glorified damage reduction, but half of them are from Dominator powersets and are actually how you'd expect a resistance to act in a vs thread.
Hm, fair enough. I'd like a scan for the stun stuff if possible, but yeah alright.
There's also an argument the other way, so that's why I'm thinking incon as the middle ground. Both have about even advantages and disadvantages against eachother IMO
Makes sense. Willing to go with whatever people feel is best as I said.
 
Hm, fair enough. I'd like a scan for the stun stuff if possible, but yeah alright.
When I figure out how to put scans from my Tablet onto a scan site, I can grab that, but until then nope.

Also fairly certain I'd have to get a character of the security level to grab Time Stop, remember which enemy group Statesman is in, then make an entire ass AE mission just to throw both Time Slow and Time Stop at Statesman

So that's fun. Willing but not able is the name of the game.
 
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