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Thread synopsis:
Hello it's me, I am the guy that shrank sage Centipede, I am back at it again, this thread has been created so that I can make a case as to why I believe that the current OPM meteor calc should be recalc'd as I believe the size of Z city to be unreliable as well as plenty of other issues with the calc such as area affected of the map affected and the reasoning for which that area should be included
Important note:
As always I have no ill will towards The_Casuality, Asura, Kachon, this is not meant to be a hit piece against any of them, I believe they are great scalers, HOWEVER I also believe that the current calc could be greatly improved to find more accurate results
With that out of the way the following characters will be affected(list may be edited to include more characters as I am not aware just how many characters upscale from the feat):
-Plantium S
-Garou (vs PS)
-Garou (post-PS)
-MA raid Genos
-Psyrochi
-Orochi
-Sage Centipede
-ENO
-John Meteor himself(duh)
Items affected:
-MA base tower length + width
-city Z size (length + width)
-city A size (length + width)
-size of city Z hole (MA hole + drill hole)
I am going to be addressing the following calcs:
Calc(1):https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kachon123/One-Punch_Man:_Cities_and_Supercontinent_Sizes (meteor AP + area it covered)
Calc(2):https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ByAsura/A-City_Size_-_One_Punch_Man (size of city Z that calc(1) uses)
Calc(3):https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ByAsura/Homeless_Man_Attacks_Child_-_One-Punch_Man (calcs width of MA tower which calc(2) uses)
Calc(4):https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Causality/RIP_Z_City_-_One-Punch_Man (calcs MA length which calc(3) uses)
I am also going to be using my previous thread as supplementary evidence, as the previous recalc thread was accepted and this recalc thread has similar reasoning to the previous one (calc stacking):
vsbattles.com
I am also going to be addressing the following CRT thread:
vsbattles.com
Issues:
Calc stacking:
In my previous thread I argued that Sage's width, length and AP should be recalc'd due to the narrative not support the calc's results + the previous calc using 1 assumption + 5 layers of calc stacking, which was accepted, so I am going to be using that as supplementary evidence to argue for a precedent
The 4 calcs that I listed and the subsequent result (AP of John Meteor, size of city Z(length + width)) suffer from the latter issue, as outlined in the vswiki calc stacking section:
"However, even for these parameters calc stacking is avoided as much as possible. That means that results taking less such steps are usually taken over results that rely on more calc stacking."
So let's examine how many steps the meteor calc takes:
1) Calc height of building
2) Calc tower upper width using height of building
3) Calc tower length using upper portion tower width
4) Calc tower lower portion width using tower length
5) Calc Tatsumaki twist using lower portion tower width
6) Calc Ghost town height using Tatsumaki's twist + the provided virtual map we are given of the ghost town in comparison to Z city
7) Use ghost town height to Calc Z city partial width, Z city height, and extended landmass height
8) Use extended landmass height to Calc rest of Z city
9) Add results and Calc Z city destruction
The meteor calc has 9 layers of calc stacking spread out across 4 calcs (for comparison the Sage calc which staff agreed should be recalc'd only had 5 layers of calc stacking with 1 assumption spread across 3 calcs)
Area:
My second issue is with the assumed area that the meteor will destroy which currently stretches over the entirety of region Z based on the following reasons:
(1)The meteor is stated to destroy Z city + surrounding towns by HA + Genos (this part I agree with)
(2) Bang states that the meteor will destroy his dojo, which Kachon proposes can't be in the vicinity of the surrounding towns therfore it is located on the far end the Z city peninsula (this part I disagree with)
Kachon's argument:
Bang's Dojo location:
Despite Z city being surrounded by towns I still believe Bang's dojo could be located in the vicinity/outskirts of the surrounding towns around the Z city main residential area, due to the following reasons:
(1): Bang's Dojo is a small structure located on a mountain, it is not the size of a town therefore it could easily fit in-between the surrounding towns or on the outskirts of the surrounding towns without needing to be 100kms away
(2):There is proof within the source material to support that Bang's dojo is located relatively close to civilization rather than being in the middle of nowhere, hundreds of kms away from the nearest town. In the Charanko training audiobook (with the audiobooks having been accepted as cannon usable material on the forum)
Proof:
Bang tells Charanko and I quote "keep going down that street you should run into him" (reffering to watchdog man who just ran away from the Dojo a few seconds prior) this sentence would make NO sense if Bang's dojo is located hundreds of kilometers away from the nearest town.
Within the same audiobook Metal Bat begins running from Bang's Dojo to wherever his sister's piano recital is with Charanko following behind, with Charanko saying "eh? No trains or taxis?" in surprise, which again would make no sense if the dojo is located hundreds of kilometers away from the nearest train station or taxi, Charanko also comments that there are no emergencies going on at the moment which would make no sense to say if he is in the middle of a forest as he wouldn't be able to know what is going unless he is in a town and can hear that there are no emergency sirens blaring, the whole exchange with them running into a monster and Charanko deciding to go visit watchdog man afterwards would make no sense if Charanko and Metal bat are in the middle of a forest with no town in sight for hundreds of kilometers (after Charanko finishes talking to Metal bat we hear train sounds implying he went to the train station he mentioned earlier, granted the audiobooks don't happen in real time and we don't know how much time passed but it should be within the same day as there is no way Charanko can walk several hundred kilometers in just a few hours)
The dojo not being that far away from the surronding towns is again further supported in ch 191 of the manga where Bang tells Garou its time for his part time job as ordered by the court which again would make no sense if Bang's dojo is located hundreds of kilometers away from the nearest town but it would make sense if it's on the outskirts of a surrounding town where Garou's part time job would be located at, within the same chapter Garou also orders Charanko to and I quote: "Get out there and buy me some pocari and yakisoba bread" which again would make no sense if Garou is sending charanko on a several hundred kilometer long treck possibly lasting hours but it WOULD make sense if Bang's dojo is on the outskirts of a town.
Images(1-5):
For further proof I've also marked possible locations for Bang's dojo within the vicinity of the towns/residential area with green x's
Image(6):
The only counter argument I can see to this is in chapter 219 where an HA staff member complains by saying "why do all martial artists like to build their dojos in the middle of nowhere?!"
Though that statment can still very much make sense with the dojos being on the outskirts of a town several kilometers away from the housing rather than hundreds of kilometers away on the other side of a country sized region.
Not to mention that if the residential area + surornding towns is destoryed it would also count as Z city being destroyed, the HA has no reason to care about the rest of the unihabited landmass of region Z
Issue #2:
Another major issue is that calc 1 assumes that the results of calc 2 are the size of the ghost town not city Z as a whole, which is what calc 2 is actually calculating which inflates the results, the manga itself also makes it clear, Tatsumaki's battle with Psyrochi destoryed ALL of city Z not just the ghost town. We see people running away from the tsunami which would make no sense if it's affecting just the ghost town area as there should be no people living there besides Saitama. All the HA staff member also refer to it as city Z not the ghost town, and finally in ch 220 Blue says "The NOW deserted Z city after it was destoryed during the MA raid", Blue reffering to the ghost town would make no sense as it was deserted LONG before the MA raid, which was stated as early as ch 20 by golden ball and spring mustachio, therfore from this we can conclude that what Tatsumaki twisted was ALL of city Z (ghost town + main residential area + surronding towns) NOT just the ghost town
Images(7-11):
Issue #3:
A common argument that gets used to justify the meteor being as strong as it is, is that the guidebook states that it's super dense for it's size (200m in the guidebook)
Now first let's lay out some things, I am going to be using the meteor that killed the dinosaurs as an example, it was between 10-15km (50x-75x the size of the OPM one) and had a density of around 2.63g/cm³ with a yield of roughly 100 teratons, with the OPM meteor having a calc of about half (50 teratons), the densest stable material in the observable universe is osmium at 22.6g/cm³
We know that the OPM meteor's speed couldn't have been that much higher than the rentry speed of an average meteor as it wouldn't have taken as long to hit otherwise, we also know the size (200m) meaning that the main factor affecting the yield is the density of the material (stated to be a super dense unknown material)
Since the yield is about half of the one that killed the dinosaurs, in order for the density to compensate for the size and speed of the meteor, it would need to be about 25-50x denser than the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs which would mean the material that the OPM meteor was made out of would be anywhere between 50+ to 100+ g/cm³ or over 2-4x+ times the densest material in the observable universe (not counting dwarf stars and singularities)
Meaning that according to the results of the calc the meteor defies known physics (yes I know its fictional, but just because something is stated to be dense doesn't mean its 2x-4x the densest thing in the known universe)
Not to mention that the city Z meteor supposedly having half the yield of the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs alongside 70% of life on earth and caused a global ice age, if it's yield were that guy the HA would have considered it a God level threat capable of wiping out the human race not a dragon level threat, and they would be in a LOT more of a panic
Issue #4:
The anime outright states it's a 9 on the torino scale (which caps off at 10 gigatons), it destroying the Z city region would not contradict that as a 9 on the torino scale is destruction on a regional scale, before anyone argues that its anime only, ONE worked on the anime script, rectonning, adding and rewriting stuff so the anime statment should be credible. This is further supported by what I outlined in issue 2 that the HA did not treat it as the apocalyptic life ending event that the calculation makes it out to be
Proposal:
Now that I have outlined my issues with the current calc here are my proposal as to what we should do:
(1):Current meteor calc + city Z + City A calcs should be removed until the calc group can reach a consesus on a better way to scale the meteor and the size of the cities
(2):Either recalc the size of z city + the surronding towns + meteor AP using a better method or use the anime scaling (1 gigaton low end, 5 mid, 10 high end)
As for calcing the size of city Z and surronding towns, I propose the following 2 methods (from shortest to longest):
(1) Use Psykos statement of being 1.5km undergound in chapter 123 as the height of the MA tower, I don't see any reason why the HA would be 5.3x deeper than the depth at which Psykos'a hideout was located, as according to Psykos herself not even the other monsters know where she is located which would make no sense if she is located on a random floor not even 1/5 of the depth of the MA but it would make sense if she is located on a floor at the bottom of the MA so deep not even the other monsters are aware of it
(images 12-14)
(2) Use the length of the MA tower to measure the length of Z city using (Image 15):
imgur.com
(3) Calc Meteor AP using result
OR
(1) Use Psyskos's statment of the depth of the MA as the tower's height
(2) Calc city Z size using image 15
(3) Calc full city Z size using the calc length from image and the virtual map from (image 16):
imgur.com
(4) Calc meteor AP using result
Personally I lean towards the first since all the statments imply Tatsumaki twisted ALL of Z city not just a portion of it
Agree: @Qurbonboev [USER=5883]@Therefir (staff)
Disagree: @MrTayman616 @Raiden38 @Kachon123
Neutral:
Hello it's me, I am the guy that shrank sage Centipede, I am back at it again, this thread has been created so that I can make a case as to why I believe that the current OPM meteor calc should be recalc'd as I believe the size of Z city to be unreliable as well as plenty of other issues with the calc such as area affected of the map affected and the reasoning for which that area should be included
Important note:
As always I have no ill will towards The_Casuality, Asura, Kachon, this is not meant to be a hit piece against any of them, I believe they are great scalers, HOWEVER I also believe that the current calc could be greatly improved to find more accurate results
With that out of the way the following characters will be affected(list may be edited to include more characters as I am not aware just how many characters upscale from the feat):
-Plantium S
-Garou (vs PS)
-Garou (post-PS)
-MA raid Genos
-Psyrochi
-Orochi
-Sage Centipede
-ENO
-John Meteor himself(duh)
Items affected:
-MA base tower length + width
-city Z size (length + width)
-city A size (length + width)
-size of city Z hole (MA hole + drill hole)
I am going to be addressing the following calcs:
Calc(1):https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kachon123/One-Punch_Man:_Cities_and_Supercontinent_Sizes (meteor AP + area it covered)
Calc(2):https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ByAsura/A-City_Size_-_One_Punch_Man (size of city Z that calc(1) uses)
Calc(3):https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ByAsura/Homeless_Man_Attacks_Child_-_One-Punch_Man (calcs width of MA tower which calc(2) uses)
Calc(4):https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Causality/RIP_Z_City_-_One-Punch_Man (calcs MA length which calc(3) uses)
I am also going to be using my previous thread as supplementary evidence, as the previous recalc thread was accepted and this recalc thread has similar reasoning to the previous one (calc stacking):
OPM-Centipede too big pls nerf (AP + size downgrade, affected characters listed in thread)
This thread has been created so I can make a case as to why I believe that Sage's centipede's current length and width and the AP derived from said length and width is inaccurate and needs to be recalc'd. (IMPORTANT NOTE: I have no ill will towards NikHelton, this is NOT meant to be a hit...
I am also going to be addressing the following CRT thread:
One-Punch Man: New City Sizes
This thread has been accepted, making the maps depicted in the One-Punch Man anime accurate and canon to the original manga. As a result, a few things have changed, namely the sizes of A-City and Z-City, as well as the yield of their destruction. Additionally, the size of the main supercontinent...
Issues:
Calc stacking:
In my previous thread I argued that Sage's width, length and AP should be recalc'd due to the narrative not support the calc's results + the previous calc using 1 assumption + 5 layers of calc stacking, which was accepted, so I am going to be using that as supplementary evidence to argue for a precedent
The 4 calcs that I listed and the subsequent result (AP of John Meteor, size of city Z(length + width)) suffer from the latter issue, as outlined in the vswiki calc stacking section:
"However, even for these parameters calc stacking is avoided as much as possible. That means that results taking less such steps are usually taken over results that rely on more calc stacking."
So let's examine how many steps the meteor calc takes:
1) Calc height of building
2) Calc tower upper width using height of building
3) Calc tower length using upper portion tower width
4) Calc tower lower portion width using tower length
5) Calc Tatsumaki twist using lower portion tower width
6) Calc Ghost town height using Tatsumaki's twist + the provided virtual map we are given of the ghost town in comparison to Z city
7) Use ghost town height to Calc Z city partial width, Z city height, and extended landmass height
8) Use extended landmass height to Calc rest of Z city
9) Add results and Calc Z city destruction
The meteor calc has 9 layers of calc stacking spread out across 4 calcs (for comparison the Sage calc which staff agreed should be recalc'd only had 5 layers of calc stacking with 1 assumption spread across 3 calcs)
Area:
My second issue is with the assumed area that the meteor will destroy which currently stretches over the entirety of region Z based on the following reasons:
(1)The meteor is stated to destroy Z city + surrounding towns by HA + Genos (this part I agree with)
(2) Bang states that the meteor will destroy his dojo, which Kachon proposes can't be in the vicinity of the surrounding towns therfore it is located on the far end the Z city peninsula (this part I disagree with)
Kachon's argument:
Bang's Dojo location:
Despite Z city being surrounded by towns I still believe Bang's dojo could be located in the vicinity/outskirts of the surrounding towns around the Z city main residential area, due to the following reasons:
(1): Bang's Dojo is a small structure located on a mountain, it is not the size of a town therefore it could easily fit in-between the surrounding towns or on the outskirts of the surrounding towns without needing to be 100kms away
(2):There is proof within the source material to support that Bang's dojo is located relatively close to civilization rather than being in the middle of nowhere, hundreds of kms away from the nearest town. In the Charanko training audiobook (with the audiobooks having been accepted as cannon usable material on the forum)
Proof:
Bang tells Charanko and I quote "keep going down that street you should run into him" (reffering to watchdog man who just ran away from the Dojo a few seconds prior) this sentence would make NO sense if Bang's dojo is located hundreds of kilometers away from the nearest town.
Within the same audiobook Metal Bat begins running from Bang's Dojo to wherever his sister's piano recital is with Charanko following behind, with Charanko saying "eh? No trains or taxis?" in surprise, which again would make no sense if the dojo is located hundreds of kilometers away from the nearest train station or taxi, Charanko also comments that there are no emergencies going on at the moment which would make no sense to say if he is in the middle of a forest as he wouldn't be able to know what is going unless he is in a town and can hear that there are no emergency sirens blaring, the whole exchange with them running into a monster and Charanko deciding to go visit watchdog man afterwards would make no sense if Charanko and Metal bat are in the middle of a forest with no town in sight for hundreds of kilometers (after Charanko finishes talking to Metal bat we hear train sounds implying he went to the train station he mentioned earlier, granted the audiobooks don't happen in real time and we don't know how much time passed but it should be within the same day as there is no way Charanko can walk several hundred kilometers in just a few hours)
The dojo not being that far away from the surronding towns is again further supported in ch 191 of the manga where Bang tells Garou its time for his part time job as ordered by the court which again would make no sense if Bang's dojo is located hundreds of kilometers away from the nearest town but it would make sense if it's on the outskirts of a surrounding town where Garou's part time job would be located at, within the same chapter Garou also orders Charanko to and I quote: "Get out there and buy me some pocari and yakisoba bread" which again would make no sense if Garou is sending charanko on a several hundred kilometer long treck possibly lasting hours but it WOULD make sense if Bang's dojo is on the outskirts of a town.
Images(1-5):
For further proof I've also marked possible locations for Bang's dojo within the vicinity of the towns/residential area with green x's
Image(6):
The only counter argument I can see to this is in chapter 219 where an HA staff member complains by saying "why do all martial artists like to build their dojos in the middle of nowhere?!"
Though that statment can still very much make sense with the dojos being on the outskirts of a town several kilometers away from the housing rather than hundreds of kilometers away on the other side of a country sized region.
Not to mention that if the residential area + surornding towns is destoryed it would also count as Z city being destroyed, the HA has no reason to care about the rest of the unihabited landmass of region Z
Issue #2:
Another major issue is that calc 1 assumes that the results of calc 2 are the size of the ghost town not city Z as a whole, which is what calc 2 is actually calculating which inflates the results, the manga itself also makes it clear, Tatsumaki's battle with Psyrochi destoryed ALL of city Z not just the ghost town. We see people running away from the tsunami which would make no sense if it's affecting just the ghost town area as there should be no people living there besides Saitama. All the HA staff member also refer to it as city Z not the ghost town, and finally in ch 220 Blue says "The NOW deserted Z city after it was destoryed during the MA raid", Blue reffering to the ghost town would make no sense as it was deserted LONG before the MA raid, which was stated as early as ch 20 by golden ball and spring mustachio, therfore from this we can conclude that what Tatsumaki twisted was ALL of city Z (ghost town + main residential area + surronding towns) NOT just the ghost town
Images(7-11):
Issue #3:
A common argument that gets used to justify the meteor being as strong as it is, is that the guidebook states that it's super dense for it's size (200m in the guidebook)
Now first let's lay out some things, I am going to be using the meteor that killed the dinosaurs as an example, it was between 10-15km (50x-75x the size of the OPM one) and had a density of around 2.63g/cm³ with a yield of roughly 100 teratons, with the OPM meteor having a calc of about half (50 teratons), the densest stable material in the observable universe is osmium at 22.6g/cm³
We know that the OPM meteor's speed couldn't have been that much higher than the rentry speed of an average meteor as it wouldn't have taken as long to hit otherwise, we also know the size (200m) meaning that the main factor affecting the yield is the density of the material (stated to be a super dense unknown material)
Since the yield is about half of the one that killed the dinosaurs, in order for the density to compensate for the size and speed of the meteor, it would need to be about 25-50x denser than the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs which would mean the material that the OPM meteor was made out of would be anywhere between 50+ to 100+ g/cm³ or over 2-4x+ times the densest material in the observable universe (not counting dwarf stars and singularities)
Meaning that according to the results of the calc the meteor defies known physics (yes I know its fictional, but just because something is stated to be dense doesn't mean its 2x-4x the densest thing in the known universe)
Not to mention that the city Z meteor supposedly having half the yield of the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs alongside 70% of life on earth and caused a global ice age, if it's yield were that guy the HA would have considered it a God level threat capable of wiping out the human race not a dragon level threat, and they would be in a LOT more of a panic
Issue #4:
The anime outright states it's a 9 on the torino scale (which caps off at 10 gigatons), it destroying the Z city region would not contradict that as a 9 on the torino scale is destruction on a regional scale, before anyone argues that its anime only, ONE worked on the anime script, rectonning, adding and rewriting stuff so the anime statment should be credible. This is further supported by what I outlined in issue 2 that the HA did not treat it as the apocalyptic life ending event that the calculation makes it out to be
Proposal:
Now that I have outlined my issues with the current calc here are my proposal as to what we should do:
(1):Current meteor calc + city Z + City A calcs should be removed until the calc group can reach a consesus on a better way to scale the meteor and the size of the cities
(2):Either recalc the size of z city + the surronding towns + meteor AP using a better method or use the anime scaling (1 gigaton low end, 5 mid, 10 high end)
As for calcing the size of city Z and surronding towns, I propose the following 2 methods (from shortest to longest):
(1) Use Psykos statement of being 1.5km undergound in chapter 123 as the height of the MA tower, I don't see any reason why the HA would be 5.3x deeper than the depth at which Psykos'a hideout was located, as according to Psykos herself not even the other monsters know where she is located which would make no sense if she is located on a random floor not even 1/5 of the depth of the MA but it would make sense if she is located on a floor at the bottom of the MA so deep not even the other monsters are aware of it
(images 12-14)
(2) Use the length of the MA tower to measure the length of Z city using (Image 15):
imgur.com
Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.
imgur.com
OR
(1) Use Psyskos's statment of the depth of the MA as the tower's height
(2) Calc city Z size using image 15
(3) Calc full city Z size using the calc length from image and the virtual map from (image 16):
imgur.com
Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.
imgur.com
Personally I lean towards the first since all the statments imply Tatsumaki twisted ALL of Z city not just a portion of it
Agree: @Qurbonboev [USER=5883]@Therefir (staff)
Disagree: @MrTayman616 @Raiden38 @Kachon123
Neutral:
Last edited:
