Helluva Fast Downgrades (Hellaverse Tier 5 Removal)

[ShionAH]

Think the whole planet is made of that? Ig I can see it.

Lets not just go past this with “Eh Ig?” When it REMOVES THE MAIN PROBLEM OF IT. Please.

There's still the MoL only nuking half of Pentagram City to worry about.

I mean I still don’t think the overloading is stronger than the beams, we only had speculation for that iirc. PLUS Carmilla is not reliable as she didn’t even know the power source was Lu

The beam performed the Tier 5 feat after breaking the shield, so this doesn't matter.

Okay tuff lad

 

[DaReaperMan]

Oh hey I actually have popcorn in this house, hold the debate, Shion! I need some time to throw it in the microwave!

 

[ShionAH]

hold the debate, Shion!

 

[DaReaperMan]

Alright I'm back. Popcorn is in hand!

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Lets not just go past this with “Eh Ig?” When it REMOVES THE MAIN PROBLEM OF IT. Please.

It's not my thread lol

Exorcists also having an "invincibility aura" that gets turned off after they come into contact with AWs also fixes the Angel Invulnerability thing, but we obviously can't go with that lol, it's a headcanon.

I mean I still don’t think the overloading is stronger than the beams, we only had speculation for that iirc.

It's an OVERLOADING machine, it's got too much energy, it's by definition stronger than the regular blast lol

PLUS Carmilla is not reliable as she didn’t even know the power source was Lu

Any proof on that? She just made a machine that siphons energy from a lad in a capsule and didn't know it was Lucifer, really?

 

[ShionAH]

It's not my thread lol

Yeah and I hate when you say “Oh Ig?” Then move on from important proofs

Exorcists also having an "invincibility aura" that gets turned off after they come into contact with AWs also fixes the Angel Invulnerability thing, but we obviously can't go with that lol, it's a headcanon.

Ok

It's an OVERLOADING machine, it's got too much energy, it's by definition stronger than the regular blast lol

Its from a weaker Lucifer though? Also its an explosion not a beam like its meant to be

Any proof on that? She just made a machine that siphons energy from a lad in a capsule and didn't know it was Lucifer, really?

Any proof she did know it? She didn’t design it, didn’t have any information other than what Vox gave her and etc. You have to prove she knew about Lucifer I believe

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Its from a weaker Lucifer though? Also its an explosion not a beam like its meant to be

So the weaker Lucifer gave the machine more energy than the 100% one, how does that work lol
And the beam is literally just Lucifer's energy, the same energy it's exploding from in Hear My Hope.

Any proof she did know it? She didn’t design it, didn’t have any information other than what Vox gave her and etc. You have to prove she knew about Lucifer I believe

What did she base the "half the Pentagram" thing on? An empty MoL lol

 

[Alexander]

So the weaker Lucifer gave the machine more energy than the 100% one, how does that work lol
And the beam is literally just Lucifer's energy, the same energy it's exploding from in Hear My Hope.

The energy extracts Lucifer power by bits, not by full moments.

 

[ShionAH]

So the weaker Lucifer gave the machine more energy than the 100% one, how does that work lol

Yeah? They broke the machines wires that caused it to fail its capacity. MoL is DIRECTLY weaker after Carmilla and Vaggies intervention.

What did she base the "half the Pentagram" thing on? An empty MoL lol

Who knows, maybe she is delulu

Doesn’t change we got a whole scene that made MoL weaker before that

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The energy extracts Lucifer power by bits, not by full moments.

And this changes? Like no matter the interpretation, MoL's capacities were only exceeded by the Hear My Hope blast, and said excess energy is what the explosion is.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

It's an OVERLOADING machine, it's got too much energy, it's by definition stronger than the regular blast lol

So what? The city of Pentagram is gigantic, and the size estimates are still minimal. On one hand, we have a quote outlining the minimum possible outcome; on the other, we have an feat that results in a score far exceeding the minimum level reached by the quote.

 

[ShionAH]

I also wanna say 5-B is more consistent with Sera growing several times the size of Earth and Angels expanding the universe

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

I also wanna say 5-B is more consistent with Sera growing several times the size of Earth and Angels expanding the universe

Don't forget Lucifer showing a star system to young Charlie.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

To clarify my opinion further: Yes, the machine overloaded due to Lucifer's power, and yes, the explosion would be at least comparable to a regular gunshot. This is explicitly shown with Vox drawing more power from Lucifer by piercing him to further energize the machine and fire more blasts; this is precisely why the current scale exists. However, this doesn't mean the feat can't be used, as it's still a concrete feat resulting in three other accomplishments that were unfortunately reduced to one by LoK. Vox didn't intend to destroy, but to tear down its gates. The size of the Pentagram City is irregular, and the accepted estimates are minimal, just like the Light of Adam, and it's consistent with the Seraphim Angels being implied during the first season to create planets and star systems, expanding the universe.

Might Of Lilith attacking Heaven is more consistent and concrete than Might Of Lilith exploding half of the Pentagram.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yeah? They broke the machines wires that caused it to fail its capacity. MoL is DIRECTLY weaker after Carmilla and Vaggies intervention.

We've definitely had this conversation before.

All Carmila and Vaggie managed to do was shut it down for a few seconds, and if anything, Vox directly siphoning energy from Lu made it take even MORE energy, not less. Kinda also a given since Lu looked basically fine before the wires pierced him.
Also MoL's wires are High 6-A but the shit that vaporized it is 6-C, what is this logic lol

Doesn’t change we got a whole scene that made MoL weaker before that

You think Carmilla measured how many times it was used to determine just how weakened Lu became lol

 

[ShionAH]

All Carmila and Vaggie managed to do was shut it down for a few seconds, and if anything, Vox directly siphoning energy from Lu made it take even MORE energy, not less. Kinda also a given since Lu looked basically fine before the wires pierced him.
Also MoL's wires are High 6-A but the shit that vaporized it is 6-C, what is this logic lol

You got ANY proof that MoL would be as strong as it was before after Carmilla SPECIFICALLY sabotaged it and after its best feat is SPECIFICALLY far below it and after it took energy SPECIFICALLY from a weaker Lu?

I don't care whatever passes in this thread, we are NOT downgrading a on screen 5-B feat because of a dubious inconsistent unreliable Tier 6 statement. Cmon.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Oh my god, apparently the calculation was right even though it was wrong, and it was 1.7 Yottatons lolololol!!

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

So what? The city of Pentagram is gigantic, and the size estimates are still minimal. On one hand, we have a quote outlining the minimum possible outcome; on the other, we have an feat that results in a score far exceeding the minimum level reached by the quote.

It's actually a decent highball, there's a single statement that indicates that Hell has over 100 billion souls and a dozen indicating not so, especially when you're only just talking about Pentagram City, a single city in the first circle of Hell (The Pride Ring has 9 and they're all bigger than the last).

I also wanna say 5-B is more consistent with Sera growing several times the size of Earth and Angels expanding the universe

TIER 4 LIGHT YAGAMI!!!

Also "expanding the universe in their own way" and then the scene immediately transitions into them creating life lol

 

[StrymULTRA]

TIER 4 LIGHT YAGAMI!!!

Yup

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

It's actually a decent highball, there's a single statement that indicates that Hell has over 100 billion souls and a dozen indicating not so, especially when you're only just talking about Pentagram City, a single city in the first circle of Hell (The Pride Ring has 9 and they're all bigger than the last).

Actually, it's the opposite; Pentagram City is the only city composed of sinners shown in the verse. Even when Vox acquired 100% approval, all the Overlords and their respective districts were shown there, plus it has its own moon/sun and is visually shown every time as larger than Heaven.

 

[ShionAH]

I hate this wiki. All of it.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

I hate this wiki. All of it.

Why?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

You got ANY proof that MoL would be as strong as it was before after Carmilla SPECIFICALLY sabotaged it and after its best feat is SPECIFICALLY far below it and after it took energy SPECIFICALLY from a weaker Lu?

Let's do a rundown of what happens, k?

• Carmilla and Vaggie cut MoL's wires, which shuts the weapon off entirely.
• Vox makes MoL's wires stab into the 5-A Lucifer, causing him to bleed as electricity builds up.
• MoL, now directly siphoning energy from Lucifer himself, can fire the beams like always.
• Vox does it a bunch of times.
• The MoL overloads and ends up exploding from that.

What Carmilla and Vaggie did was effectively turning the weapon off. Vox then just turned it back on.
It had nothing to do with the overloading or with how much energy it would release if it overloaded.
Like, please explain to me how, in your logic, MoL's 5-A wires got destroyed by a 6-C explosion lol

Actually, it's the opposite; Pentagram City is the only city composed of sinners shown in the verse. Even when Vox acquired 100% approval, all the Overlords and their respective districts were shown there, plus it has its own moon/sun and is visually shown every time as larger than Heaven.

We've literally seen Sinners in IMP City?

Please explain to me how Pentagram City can have all the Sinners, when its sovereign Overlords only collectively have a million souls lol

 

[DaReaperMan]

I hate this wiki. All of it.

This popcorn is really good, Shion.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Let's do a rundown of what happens, k?

• Carmilla and Vaggie cut MoL's wires, which shuts the weapon off entirely.
• Vox makes MoL's wires stab into the 5-A Lucifer, causing him to bleed as electricity builds up.
• MoL, now directly siphoning energy from Lucifer himself, can fire the beams like always.
• Vox does it a bunch of times.
• The MoL overloads and ends up exploding from that.

What Carmilla and Vaggie did was effectively turning the weapon off. Vox then just turned it back on.
It had nothing to do with the overloading or with how much energy it would release if it overloaded.
Like, please explain to me how, in your logic, MoL's 5-A wires got destroyed by a 6-C explosion lol

We've literally seen Sinners in IMP City?

Please explain to me how Pentagram City can have all the Sinners, when its sovereign Overlords only collectively have a million souls lol

Millions--

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tbf if the Tier 5 feat is deemed as bunk, we gotta talk about the Adam vaporization stuff anyways as I think that's important too whether the verse ends up as Low 7-C or 7-C.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Tbf if the Tier 5 feat is deemed as bunk, we gotta talk about the Adam vaporization stuff anyways as I think that's important too whether the verse ends up as Low 7-C or 7-C.

Funny thing Strym, this goes through the current calc for the overheat would be used.

So... we do not discuss that Adam feat, lol

 

[ShionAH]

Tier 5 isn’t bunk lol, this is in case if it gets bunked.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Funny thing Strym, this goes through the current calc for the overheat would be used.

Outside that we do given that we should discuss what tier would the verse end to.

So... we do not discuss that Adam feat, lol

I suppose we do after this CRT, then.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Outside that we do given that we should discuss what tier would the verse end to.

High 7-A, possibly High 6-C until my CRT

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

We've literally seen Sinners in IMP City?

Please explain to me how Pentagram City can have all the Sinners, when its sovereign Overlords only collectively have a million souls lol

So what? A few sinners were shown in Imp City, and that's it. The entire second season is about Vox causing a war between Hell and the sinners. If there really were a large number of sinners outside the Pentagram, that would be very important, both for the declaration of war and for its approval, but nothing beyond the Pentagram is shown. The same thing happens in the first season with the exterminators, who are only shown in the Pentagram City, as are all the Overlords, including the minor ones. In the more than 5 years since the verse began, no other city of sinners has been shown besides the Pentagram, and everything involving sinners is within the pentagram.

Could it be because not all sinners will make a contract with an Overlord? And that was one of the main ones, which ignores the other, lesser Overlords that apparently exist. And Hazbin Hotel is honestly confused with numbers.

 

[StrymULTRA]

High 7-A, possibly High 6-C until my CRT

Wait from what.

 

[ShionAH]

until my CRT

what? We arent getting rid of 5B yall know that right

 

[ShionAH]

Wait from what.

Destroying half the pentagram

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Um, yeah, in this case AP objectively does equal DC. A machine overheating and exploding cannot have Attack Potency literally several billions of times greater than it's Destructive Capacity, that's not how explosions work.

By this logic, we can also argue any characters tier 5-1 with beams that creates small explosions means that they should be Tier 9-8 instead

 

[DaReaperMan]

Outside that we do given that we should discuss what tier would the verse end to.

OP already agreed to 7-B, possibly 6-C for Overlord tiers and I ASSUME the other side for people like Lucifer and Adam is fine.

Yeah, I'm fine with that.

 

[ShionAH]

I ASSUME the other side for people like Lucifer and Adam is fine.

Wdym by other side here?

 

[DaReaperMan]

High 7-A, possibly High 6-C until my CRT

Remember, Eden: Even Armorchompy does not use falling and bullets as anti-feats and has told you as much. Can't use those for yer CRT.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Wdym by other side here?

You worship tier 5 Adam, yes, but if mods disagree with tier 5, and they very well might, we need a back-up.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

So what? A few sinners were shown in Imp City, and that's it. The entire second season is about Vox causing a war between Hell and the sinners. If there really were a large number of sinners outside the Pentagram, that would be very important, both for the declaration of war and for its approval, but nothing beyond the Pentagram is shown. The same thing happens in the first season with the exterminators, who are only shown in the Pentagram City, as are all the Overlords, including the minor ones. In the more than 5 years since the verse began, no other city of sinners has been shown besides the Pentagram, and everything involving sinners is within the pentagram.

Could it be because not all sinners will make a contract with an Overlord? And that was one of the main ones, which ignores the other, lesser Overlords that apparently exist. And Hazbin Hotel is honestly confused with numbers

All of Gravity Fall takes place in Oregon, would Dipper saying that they are 7 billion humans on Earth means that's the numbers of people in Oregon? NO, OBVIOUSLY NOT.
And the whole "Why didn't Vox contact Sinners outside Pentagram City" turns null when you remember SATAN AND THE GOETIA are also in the Pride Ring, and apparently had no reaction to Heaven going to war with Hell lol

And for the other thing.

I employ every down on their luck loser this side of Hell. Who the **** is left?

These are definitely the words of someone who owns 0.000001% in the ring lol