Kashimo VS Toji (4-4-0)

[ShionAH]

No he wouldn't? He was getting pressed by Hakari towards the of the fight and even knew he'd hit another JP and instead of going MBA, he only tried stopping Hakari from doing domain. And he wants to use his ct on Sukuna, he'd rather die than use his ct.

Because he believed the explosion would take out Hakari, and after that he had no cursed energy left to use it.

If he knows how problematic Toji is and also wants to win the fight then he would use it.

Basic h2h is not skill.

It is skill for dominating Hakari who specializes in hand to hand combat, what has Toji done again for H2H?

And you're gonna sit here and act like Toji who dominated his entire clan, the clan most skilled from what we saw, is just not also capable of this?

Clan of fodders that Toji could literally blitz??

Other than Naobito there wasn't anyone who would push Toji to even low diff in that damn clan, PLUS Toji uses weapons specifically did he even fight hand to hand ever except against anyone other than like Ino, Megumi and that grandma??

He even used a weapon against Dagon COME ON!

 

[Arkenis]

If he knows how problematic Toji is and also wants to win the fight then he would use it.

He knew how problematic Hakari was, an immortal guy with infinite ce and insane luck to keep going and can become faster from his JP, yet he didn't think MBA? You're misunderstanding why MBA wasn't used. It's got zero to do with someone being a problem, he wanted it to be used on Sukuna because it can only be used once and he wants to fight Sukuna.

It is skill for dominating Hakari who specializes in hand to hand combat, what has Toji done again for H2H?

Hakari specializes in h2h? Can you post where you read that from?

Clan of fodders that Toji could literally blitz??

Blitzing doesn't mean he's got no skill, his own son can fight him and react and time his attacks, I'm sure the Hei and Kukuru can do the same and still lose due to skill.

Other than Naobito there wasn't anyone who would push Toji to even low diff in that damn clan, PLUS Toji uses weapons specifically did he even fight hand to hand ever except against anyone other than like Ino, Megumi and that grandma??

Yeah I'm not taking you serious after this if you think the story is only expressing Toji's superiority being one of stats and not also skill.

 

[ShionAH]

He knew how problematic Hakari was, an immortal guy with infinite ce and insane luck to keep going and can become faster from his JP, yet he didn't think MBA? You're misunderstanding why MBA wasn't used. It's got zero to do with someone being a problem, he wanted it to be used on Sukuna because it can only be used once and he wants to fight Sukuna.

Fair. Base Kashimo gets stomped here so I suggest OP gives MBA

Hakari specializes in h2h? Can you post where you read that from?

Wtf? Its literally his ONLY offensive option??

Blitzing doesn't mean he's got no skill, his own son can fight him and react and time his attacks, I'm sure the Hei and Kukuru can do the same and still lose due to skill.

Maki was able to perception blitz his father, who is considered one of the top dogs in the Zenin clan.

Yeah I'm not taking you serious after this if you think the story is only expressing Toji's superiority being one of stats and not also skill.

Show me a SINGLE time Toji does anything impressive in hand to hand combat. ONCE. Don’t make me laugh, this mf used hands on three people in total. Ino, Domain Exhausted Megumi and ******* Grandma. Meanwhile Kashimo’s main form of wincondition is hand to hand combat and dominated his era like that, could outskill Hakari in hand to hand and was doing pretty well against Sukuna if it wasn’t for four arms

 

[MochOath]

why is Toji potentially being able to wipe out the fodder Zenin clan a better skill feat than Kashimo being the strongest of his era?

 

[Arkenis]

Wtf? Its literally his ONLY offensive option??

Yeah stop freaking out. I'm questioning where you got that he specializes in it. Either rephrase your statement or explain how Hakari specializes in h2h cause something being your only method doesn't mean shit.

Maki was able to perception blitz his father, who is considered one of the top dogs in the Zenin clan.

Doesn't mean Toji has no skill. Do you remember how the Kukuru Unit is what trained Maki and how men without CT are required to join the group and train?

Show me a SINGLE time Toji does anything impressive in hand to hand combat. ONCE. Don’t make me laugh, this mf used hands on three people in total. Ino, Domain Exhausted Megumi and ******* Grandma. Meanwhile Kashimo’s main form of wincondition is hand to hand combat and dominated his era like that, could outskill Hakari in hand to hand and was doing pretty well against Sukuna if it wasn’t for four arms

Reread my comments and find me where I ever said Toji was impressive. I literally said from the start skill doesn't matter here, Kashimo's getting killed simply due to range and SSK.

 

[IamMadeOutOfStone]

hi im back again, yeah by feats i meant like their stats and stuff they done in jjk, counting vote and all, should i change so kashimo can go mba if this is some stomp? maybe turn toji into puppet of carnage so he doesnt have crazy ah weapons?

 

[Arkenis]

hi im back again, yeah by feats i meant like their stats and stuff they done in jjk, counting vote and all, should i change so kashimo can go mba if this is some stomp? maybe turn toji into puppet of carnage so he doesnt have crazy ah weapons?

No giving MBA just makes this a stomp if Toji gets hit by the waves which he would, and carnage leaves Toji hitting a guy who can just regen and vaporize playful cloud.

 

[IamMadeOutOfStone]

No giving MBA just makes this a stomp if Toji gets hit by the waves which he would, and carnage leaves Toji hitting a guy who can just regen and vaporize playful cloud.

i meant Normal mentality Kashimo vs puppet of carnage my bad

 

[Arkenis]

i meant Normal mentality Kashimo vs puppet of carnage my bad

Probably I could see an argument for him surviving a lightning discharge since HR makes them resistant to ce, but this just falls down to "how many discharges can Toji take before he beats Kashimo's ass" and I think that becomes pretty unfair given Kashimo's shown he can fight well over 10mins without much drain. Playful cloud could maybe be used to block or keep distance but it still becomes a fight of how long Toji can keep blocking and tanking and I don't think it's reasonable.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I think people are ignoring HR as far as I see doesn't have resistance to Electricity. Heck we see even Maki getting shocked and was out of pictures for a chapter when Sukuna used Nues attack.
So either Toji will be on disadvantages in CQC due to that or he gets stunned. Kashimo can likely cook him with Lightning discharge.
So far I'm going with Kashimo if it's Shibuya Toji

If it's Toji with all his kit then I can go with Toji since he got more versatile things..

 

[Nonynho]

I think people are ignoring HR

as an HR Manager sometimes i feel like this

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

Don't think Toji is surviving em waves being shot at him. Comparing to Kashimo who gave Sukuna troublesome solo while Maki (who is stronger than Toji) could only fight Sukuna because he was getting jumped + holding back

 

[Mickey1940]

Re-reading, you're actually correct

But i'll keep my vote because of Toji's limited prior knowledge, we've seen what he does to people he outskills when he has information and Toji 100% outskill Kashimo, and in base he also should be superior in durability (with this changing if Kashimo's able to turn MBA on, which i don't think he'll be able to) and in stamina

Toji just gets lightning blasted and there's nothing he can do about it

in melee he's equal in power and might slightly outskill but just touching Kashimo in any capacity is enough to send shocks through his body. Toji would have to use Soul-Split Katana off the bat and even then Kashimo can still block the hits (the JJK Anime clearly shows Maki clashing swords with Nobuaki and he could still block and parry her sword hits, SSK doesn't just slice through all matter like butter). At this distance and with both characters having prep time Kashimo can just point at him and blast him to kingdom come

 

[IamMadeOutOfStone]

bump

 

[IamMadeOutOfStone]

bump again

 

[Saqphire]

Can't Toji nullify Kashimo's lightning with ISOH ?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Can't Toji nullify Kashimo's lightning with ISOH ?

It never stated to null CE as far as I remember its nulls CTS that's all

 

[Saqphire]

It never stated to null CE as far as I remember its nulls CTS that's all

Ah okay yeah. It would hard counter MBA but not the lightning.

Far as I know though, Toji has dodged Nue which was stated to be the same as Kashimo's lightning so I don't see how Kashimo can tag him really

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Ah okay yeah. It would hard counter MBA but not the lightning.

Far as I know though, Toji has dodged Nue which was stated to be the same as Kashimo's lightning so I don't see how Kashimo can tag him really

Only effect of the CE is similar to Nue. Lightning discharge is different thing. Also dodging and touching him is different though. Toji gets electrified in CQC

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Kashimo in JJK discussions without lighting (Farmer FRA)

 

[Mommyleona]

Toji precog+SSK diff

 

[ShionAH]

Ah okay yeah. It would hard counter MBA but not the lightning.

Far as I know though, Toji has dodged Nue which was stated to be the same as Kashimo's lightning so I don't see how Kashimo can tag him really

Nue isnt MHS nor is it a Surehit

 

[Saqphire]

Nue isnt MHS nor is it a Surehit

Nobody said it was MHS, I said both the lightning and the electricity are stated to be the same.

And it being a sure hit is worse here because of HR

 

[ShionAH]

Nobody said it was MHS, I said both the lightning and the electricity are stated to be the same.

And it being a sure hit is worse here because of HR

Lighting Discharge is MHS, Nue isn't.

... what? You... you do know Kashimo doesn't use any barriers for the surehit right? HR wouldn't defend them against Lighting because it doesn't use barriers to target but directly works on Kashimo's own cursed energy

 

[Saqphire]

Lighting Discharge is MHS, Nue isn't.

Nue doesn't have a profile so we can't assert that based on accepted scaling. However, it should be MHS like Kash's lightning due to the reason how Kash's electricity becomes lightning in the first place (by it rending the air with negative/positive charges). Nue does the exact same thing.

... what? You... you do know Kashimo doesn't use any barriers for the surehit right? HR wouldn't defend them against Lighting because it doesn't use barriers to target but directly works on Kashimo's own cursed energy

Naoya's sure hit whiffed because it couldn't recognise Maki due to her lack of cursed energy. In fact, sure hits are a thing because they lock onto CE in the first place so Kashimo wouldn't have a sure thing to lock on in the first place.

 

[ShionAH]

Nue doesn't have a profile so we can't assert that based on accepted scaling. However, it should be MHS like Kash's lightning due to the reason how Kash's electricity becomes lightning in the first place (by it rending the air with negative/positive charges). Nue does the exact same thing.

Lol. Lmao even.

Megumi Fushiguro

Megumi Fushiguro (伏ふし黒ぐろ 恵めぐみ, Fushiguro Megumi?) is the deuteragonist of the Jujutsu Kaisen series. Born into the Zenin clan, a prestigious family of jujutsu sorcerers, Megumi inherits the unique Ten Shadows Technique, which allows him to summon and control various shikigami using his cursed...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Megumi would have "MHS with Nue" if it was MHS.

Naoya's sure hit whiffed because it couldn't recognise Maki due to her lack of cursed energy. In fact, sure hits are a thing because they lock onto CE in the first place so Kashimo wouldn't have a sure thing to lock on in the first place.

Read my comment again I explained why this wouldn't apply to kashimo.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Naoya's sure hit whiffed because it couldn't recognise Maki due to her lack of cursed energy. In fact, sure hits are a thing because they lock onto CE in the first place so Kashimo wouldn't have a sure thing to lock on in the first place.

There's a difference between how Kashimo's sure hit works and how a domain sure hit works. Domains target based on CE, something that HR users lack so they can't be targeted. Kashimo's works by applying positive charges to whatever he hits which creates the sure hit when the negative charge in him discharges as it automatically targets the positive charge. It isn't based on the CE of the target at all. Kashimo's sure hit would still work.

 

[Saqphire]

There's a difference between how Kashimo's sure hit works and how a domain sure hit works. Domains target based on CE, something that HR users lack so they can't be targeted. Kashimo's works by applying positive charges to whatever he hits which creates the sure hit when the negative charge in him discharges as it automatically targets the positive charge. It isn't based on the CE of the target at all. Kashimo's sure hit would still work.

Fair enough. Would it be a perfect sure hit though, given that the sure hit is kinda just slapped onto a person? Like if someone blitzed the lightning it wouldn't just perpetually follow the target, right?

Lol. Lmao even.

Megumi Fushiguro

Megumi Fushiguro (伏ふし黒ぐろ 恵めぐみ, Fushiguro Megumi?) is the deuteragonist of the Jujutsu Kaisen series. Born into the Zenin clan, a prestigious family of jujutsu sorcerers, Megumi inherits the unique Ten Shadows Technique, which allows him to summon and control various shikigami using his cursed...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Megumi would have "MHS with Nue" if it was MHS.

Nue itself aint got a profile G. Mahoraga, which is also a Shikigami from Megumi, does though.

This just lists Megumi's own combat speed and not Nue's speed which doesn't have an accepted one yet; I just posited why Nue's speed should be = to Kash here

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Fair enough. Would it be a perfect sure hit though, given that the sure hit is kinda just slapped onto a person? Like if someone blitzed the lightning it wouldn't just perpetually follow the target, right?

Nue itself aint got a profile G. Mahoraga, which is also a Shikigami from Megumi, does though.

This just lists Megumi's own combat speed and not Nue's speed which doesn't have an accepted one yet; I just posited why Nue's speed should be = to Kash here

His body electricity and Electric discharge both are different things

 

[ShionAH]

This just lists Megumi's own combat speed and not Nue's speed which doesn't have an accepted one yet; I just posited why Nue's speed should be = to Kash here

If Nue was MHS it would have been mentioned on the profile...

 

[IamMadeOutOfStone]

bumppp

 

[IamMadeOutOfStone]

sigh bump again, where the toji and kashimo glazers

 

[Mickey1940]

still voting Kashimo

Kashimo might actually be stronger than Toji here since Maki most likely trained before the Shinjuku Showdown (therefore probably surpassing Toji), Maki did about as well against Sukuna as Shinjuku Yuta did, Shinjuku Yuta is stronger than Culling Games Yuta who is weaker than Jackpot Hakari who is slightly weaker than Kashimo as Hakari was taking more damage throughout their fight

TLDR Kashimo has a similar scaling chain to the Shinjuku Showdown heavy hitters, all of which should be superior to Toji

that along with Lightning Discharge means Toji doesn't have much of a chance here

 

[Pyro9278]

Kashimo FRA

 

[IamMadeOutOfStone]

ayo a vote? in this economy? counted

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Incon grace, how fun

 

[Mickey1940]

Incon grace, how fun

What are the votes for incon even arguing

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

What are the votes for incon even arguing

No one's voting for incon, it's incon cuz it's a split of votes between both characters that adds up to 7, the minimum grace number.

 

[Mickey1940]

No one's voting for incon, it's incon cuz it's a split of votes between both characters that adds up to 7, the minimum grace number.

then what are the votes for Toji

I've already debunked the arguments for Toji. I don't see why grace would start if the Toji supporters haven't even gotten a chance to respond

 

[CosmoDark38]

Kashimo fra