Heaven Revision (Hazbin Hotel)

[ShionAH]

I wont reply to anything @Alexander argues anymore, since I am so “weird”.

Nope! Like I said, this series make no lore sense the instant you try to make sense of it. Durability was a band-aid solution for a problem that needs stitches, and we don't got no needles and string.

I think we MUST find something solid. I hate the durability argument.

Adam could still move his face and talk and shit, it didn't just nuke his soul right then and there... and considering his higher end regen is something I don't like but am fine with existing... hmmmm...

I forgot his smile, I don’t ******* know atp tbh 🫩

Ya know what? **** it. Upgrade.

ngl, who even disagrees with straight Low Godly over time?? I don’t see why they wouldn’t have it overtime since its pretty clear they are fully immortal

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I think we MUST find something solid. I hate the durability argument.

It's literally just that or Invulnerability

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think we MUST find something solid. I hate the durability argument.

There literally is nothing, man. Everything has a bundle of problems.

I forgot his smile, I don’t ******* know atp tbh 🫩

What you can rely on me for is rando facts about scenes I've had to spend way too much time fact checking myself on lmfao

ngl, who even disagrees with straight Low Godly over time?? I don’t see why they wouldn’t have it overtime since its pretty clear they are fully immortal

Honestly I wouldn't mind a full low godly over time, shit is kind of a high-end interpretation but it just doesn't matter in combat. If you want to fight lesser opponents, say their combat applicable is the High-Low. Want to go higher against people who might be able to stomp them otherwise? Go with High-Mid.

 

[Mythic381]

And the one thing I'm vehement on is giving out resistance to mind manip willy nilly. Complete conjecture and theorizing on things never stated in the series. Also, basing it on strength? Really? Alastor who was weaker than 100% Vox stared at that shit with no issues. Just give the resistance to Alastor, maybe other overlords, and nobody else. This series ceased making sense from a plot standpoint halfway through season 1 Hazbin and season 2 Helluva anyways. Giving arbitrary limiters on Vox's mindhax in a very, VERY poorly veiled attempt to wank Adam just a little bit higher is not the play.

I think the point is like people on his level of rank or higher, which makes sense considering it didn't work on any of the overlords, presumably didn't work on Lucifer, Charlie and Emily too. For exorcists, I do think he potentially tried doing it on them, but not sure going on a possibility like that is valid.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It's literally just that or Invulnerability

Unironically it can't be Invulnerability because of how those standards changed. There's no system for the Invulnerability and whatnot.

 

[ShionAH]

Invulnerability

hmm…

@DaReaperMan

HEAR ME OUT-!!

 

[ShionAH]

There's no system for the Invulnerability and whatnot.

That doesn’t affect us because the system is Angelic Weapons

Cursed Spirits JUST got Invulnerability because they can’t be harmed without Cursed Energy

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think the point is like people on his level of rank or higher, which makes sense considering it didn't work on any of the overlords, presumably didn't work on Lucifer, Charlie and Emily too. For exorcists, I do think he potentially tried doing it on them, but not sure going on a possibility like that is valid.

I still don't like it in the slightest. Just give it to people who've shown resistance, don't assume resistance, that only works in certain circumstances and whatnot.

hmm…

@DaReaperMan

HEAR ME OUT-!!

Even if ya had a system it breaks because of Carmilla's ******' knee lmfao

 

[DaReaperMan]

That doesn’t affect us because the system is Angelic Weapons

Cursed Spirits JUST got Invulnerability because they can’t be harmed without Cursed Energy

The system is inconsistent, even CSes damn near didn't get it and those ******* don't have the anti-feats listed on this thread lol

 

[ShionAH]

I still don't like it in the slightest. Just give it to people who've shown resistance, don't assume resistance, that only works in certain circumstances and whatnot.

But think about it, why would Vox just not take over them? Actually why wouldn’t he take over Sera during her visit?? These guys are additionally considered invincible to Vincent lol

Even if ya had a system it breaks because of Carmilla's ******' knee lmfao

Well according to Eden it’s because that part has Angelic Steel

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The system is inconsistent, even CSes damn near didn't get it and those ******* don't have the anti-feats listed on this thread lol

The anime's canon so they do, Non CE Yuji makes one bleed and I think Toji did too.

They got a system though, like Cursed Spirit true forms are intangible or something

 

[ShionAH]

They got a system though, like CS's true form is intangible or something

Angels are made out pure light ay

 

[DaReaperMan]

But think about it, why would Vox just not take over them? Actually why wouldn’t he take over Sera during her visit?? These guys are additionally considered invincible to Vincent lol

Honestly, probably because He wanted to showboat and shit. He was rallying Hell for war against Heaven, if he just mindfucked the dragon-bird-girl-thing there wouldn't be much to say other than "I can do this shit and yooooou can't!"

Well according to Eden it’s because that part has Angelic Steel

lmfao

The anime's canon so they do, Non CE Yuji makes one bleed and I think Toji did too.

They got a system though, like Cursed Spirit true forms are intangible or something

I don't recall that stuff being brought up in the thread. Should probably go after it with that stuff and note that any anti-feats sorta kills this stuff.

 

[DarkLock92]

The usage of magic is the only real difference between an overlord and a sinner, right? Wouldn't that be a decent criteria for who gets resistance to Vox's mind manip?

 

[DaReaperMan]

The usage of magic is the only real difference between an overlord and a sinner, right? Wouldn't that be a decent criteria for who gets resistance to Vox's mind manip?

...No the difference between an Overlord and a rando sinner is how many souls they have. We're talking at minimum six digits and usually at least seven digits to even be on the map. Magic just happens to be a part of that.

Husk and Niffty stopped being Overlords ya know.

 

[Mythic381]

The anime's canon so they do, Non CE Yuji makes one bleed and I think Toji did too.

Wait a damn minute, that's not a DB reference?

 

[ShionAH]

Honestly, probably because He wanted to showboat and shit. He was rallying Hell for war against Heaven, if he just mindfucked the dragon-bird-girl-thing there wouldn't be much to say other than "I can do this shit and yooooou can't!"

I mean… buddy would have TWO SERAPHIMS at his arsenal. At that point that’s like a direct W, no ******’ way would he lose after that. Alastor gets out of the deal? “Smite his ahh Sera” you know?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean… buddy would have TWO SERAPHIMS at his arsenal. At that point that’s like a direct W, no ******’ way would he lose after that. Alastor gets out of the deal? “Smite his ahh Sera” you know?

And Heaven could have beamed Pentious down at any time via their Adam Hologram shit, or opened a ******' portal and showed him on the other side. Or use like any of their clairvoyance shit to show him.

This verse has more holes than a firing squad victim when you think about the story lol

 

[ShionAH]

And Heaven could have beamed Pentious down at any time via their Adam Hologram shit, or opened a ******' portal and showed him on the other side. Or use like any of their clairvoyance shit to show him.

Notice how its Adam’s holograms, Adam’s see through portals and Adam’s clairvoyance ball?

I am noticing a pattern

 

[DarkLock92]

Notice how its Adam’s holograms, Adam’s see through portals and Adam’s clairvoyance ball?

I am noticing a pattern

Lucifer also had a see-through portal, they just got retconned in season 2.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Notice how its Adam’s holograms, Adam’s see through portals and Adam’s clairvoyance ball?

I am noticing a pattern

Yep!

When most of the screentime of the place in season 1 features the man with the smallest dick, it's mostly his shit that generates the plotholes lol

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I said Adam knew who made the shield not who Alastor is wtf?

Ah, so He knows who made the shield but not who made the shield

It's not that hard to guess the Hazbin crew made the shield, As Adam said, "Oh, really? I don't see the giant shield in front of us, you dumb B**Ch! NO SHIT"

He literally never uses this specific shockwave method again, he specifically used it to counter Alastor

Adam swings his axe, laser come out. It's the exact same as every other holy light beam except Alastor blocked it, creating the shockwave

 

[ShionAH]

Lucifer also had a see-through portal, they just got retconned in season 2.

Lucifer can’t open interplanetary ones as far as I know

the man with the smallest dick

Canonically incorrect

Ah, so He knows who made the shield but not who made the shield

Mf what? If I see you outside my home throwing rocks I would say “who are you” and obviously not know it’s @Anonymous_Learner. He knew that weird radio demon made it but now who that radio demon is lol.

It's not that hard to guess the Hazbin crew made the shield, As Adam said, "Oh, really? I don't see the giant shield in front of us, you dumb B**Ch! NO SHIT"

Yeah but he instantly knew it was Alastor who did it, not Charlie not Husk not me

Adam swings his axe, laser come out. It's the exact same as every other holy light beam except Alastor blocked it, creating the shockwave

I suggest you rewatch the scene, Adam swings his axe and a shockwave of light comes out. It didn’t TURN into a shockwave after it hit Alastor or whatever you mean

 

[DarkLock92]

Lucifer can’t open interplanetary ones as far as I know

Maybe not, but Sera and Emily can. Anyway my point was that portals were retconned to not be see-through in season 2

 

[ShionAH]

Maybe not, but Sera and Emily can. Anyway my point was that portals were retconned to not be see-through in season 2

Wait you are right, they were see through portals too Vivzie come on dude…

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Back at it again

• Adam. Immortality (Type 8), Regeneration (Low-High)

Sinners are immortal because they are already dead and cannot go to another after life exactly the same way Winner's would. It was believed the Angels were invincible, unharmable. Later confirmed once again and that they are unafraid of harm. With Adam specifically showing quick regeneration and only seeing Angelic attacks such as Sir Pentious as a threat.

I guess that's fine. Winners should have some equivalent Immortality to Sinners.
Tho I think Type 3 fits better, but eh, don't have a strong opinion.

This leads me to my opinion on the exorcist, right now I think they are really underrated. I KNOW they have antifeats but right now their profiles don't make ANY sense at all. So my proposal?

• Exorcist. Immortality (Type 8), Regeneration (Low-Mid)

Unlike Adam they lack the Sinner/Winner argument, but I know the questions that will come my way so let me explain my idea on how it works. We saw how quickly Vaggie was able to heal his wings the MOMENT she wanted and willed it, Lute's arm isn't healed because she cannot let go of Adam's death and clearly holds that grief (literally gone insane). What I am tryna get is that Exorcist have Regeneration when they will it, IN case it's something that they literally don't want to heal deep down through emotional reasons. And unlike Sinners they can heal at whim making them effectively "invincible" without the use of Angelic Weapons.

This perfectly explains everything and makes sense by what we see in the show. Before anyone says it yes we know Exorcist can definitely kill Overlords who should be able to hold their own yet can't and consider them unstoppable, which right now doesn't make any sense as they leck Regeneration AND Immortality AND Invulnerability while also clearly not being Durability Merchants through their feats...

This is HEAVILY consistent with Goetia being also unbeatable without Angelic Weapons and healing anything else quickly.

I'll let others to fight about this, I don't have strong opinion on this. Tho I'd love to see a Lute buff

I will repeat myself so a certain group of people hear it, the ENTIRE plot of S1 makes NO SENSE if we don't give them anything.

• Lucifer

He believed even with Angelic steel Vox wouldn't be able to kill him, he resists all their effects bar Power Null and should have the same Immortality and Regeneration as Sinners because he literally created even more Immortal beings (Goetia) lol.

Sounds fine.

• Resistances

Now this is controversial. I think Charlie, Emily, Alastor, Overlords, Lucifer Exorcist Army and Adam... wait. This is basically anyone that's not weaker than Vox.

We got two options either we assume it only works on lower and weaker beings and give resistance to anyone stronger which makes sense

It would just make Vox's hypnosis AP-based, not give resistance to everyone.

Still, Vox at the moment almost surpassed Alastor, thus he should have been superior to most if not all other Overlords in terms of power, so it disproves it being AP-based and just resistance for Overlords, Charlie, and Emily.

Charlie, Emily and the Overlords weren't hypnotized despite the entire audience being. Vox had to go and convince Carmilla and directly showed that it doesn't work on Val.

Yes.

and then Vox considers Exorcist unstoppable and invincible like the rest of Hell which wouldn't make sense if he could just control them at any time with some prep (especially with how egotistical he is). At last... we have this for Al

Vox does not always try to hypnotize people when he does that eye, it also happens when he is at emotions.

Overall I think it's fine but the reasoning should be tweaked a bit.

in times against those who can harm him or at least put up a fight, he can dice through swarms of attacks and utilize his usually overwhelming power very effectively.

Wasn't that effective.

Instantly deduced who the creator of the forcefield was in the heat of battle

Says who? He just saw a random Sinner sinisterly smiling at him and decided to fight him. He even says "who the duck are you?", clearly thinking it's just a random nobody.

after Alastor avoided his direct attacks Adam used his creativity to create a shockwave attack mid battle to take out Alastor's power source without letting him avoid it

Why are you assuming he aimed for microphone and deduced it's his power amplifier? That's entire headcanon lol. He just aimed at Al, Alastor blocked it and got stomped. There's a reason his hands look like this after the attack.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Possibly Low-Godly over time

Uhhhhhhh.... Sinners don't get threatened by atomic deconstruction so iffy on this.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Uhhhhhhh.... Sinners don't get threatened by atomic deconstruction so iffy on this.

Blud hasn't watched the 8th Helluva Boss short

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Mf what? If I see you outside my home throwing rocks I would say “who are you” and obviously not know it’s @Anonymous_Learner. He knew that weird radio demon made it but now who that radio demon is lol.

I wouldn't be throwing rocks outside your home to begin with, you're gang.

Yeah but he instantly knew it was Alastor who did it, not Charlie not Husk not me

He instantly recognized that he was Top 3 to his top 2
Not hard to when he's on the top of the hotel laughing his ass off and started the shield in Adam's view

I suggest you rewatch the scene, Adam swings his axe and a shockwave of light comes out. It didn’t TURN into a shockwave after it hit Alastor or whatever you mean

Don't feel like getting more scans since i'm hungry so i'll leave it at this

 

[ShionAH]

Okay fine maybe I wanked his intelligence a bit. Anyways for the Regeneration of Adam. Most of this explanation obviously also works on Sinners which we should change it like this ngl

Immortality Type 3 and 8. Regeneration.

As a Winner, Adam has regenerative immortality capable of healing practically any wound given time, due to the simple fact he is already dead, just like Sinners.

Combat Applicable: High-Low, possibly High-Mid. Comparable to sinners like Valentino whom can be impaled through the chest and instantly heal. Practically instantly healed being stabbed deep by Charlie's Pitchfork. Comparable to one of Velvette's models who was literally torn to pieces by Valentino and recovered in unspecified hours

Over time: Low-Godly. Comparable to Sinners who can be eaten and digested and still come back over an unknown timeframe. Sinners regenerate from their souls, and are considered impossible to kill without destroying it, thus rendering all physical damage worthless over time.

Do we all agree on this little idea?

Everyone agrees to Lucifer’s part.

Exorcist will get Immortality 2 and 8 for Angelic Weapons and have limb regeneration when they are motivated enough. So it isn’t combat applicable

From what I see people agree Charlie, Emily, Overlords and Lucifer are all resistant to the mind manipulation. I saw some mixed opinions for Adam and his girls, can yall repeat your view on it?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Okay fine maybe I wanked his intelligence a bit. Anyways for the Regeneration of Adam. Most of this explanation obviously also works on Sinners which we should change it like this ngl

Immortality Type 3 and 8. Regeneration.

As a Winner, Adam has regenerative immortality capable of healing practically any wound given time, due to the simple fact he is already dead, just like Sinners.

Combat Applicable: High-Low, possibly High-Mid. Comparable to sinners like Valentino whom can be impaled through the chest and instantly heal. Practically instantly healed being stabbed deep by Charlie's Pitchfork. Comparable to one of Velvette's models who was literally torn to pieces by Valentino and recovered in unspecified hours

Over time: Low-Godly. Comparable to Sinners who can be eaten and digested and still come back over an unknown timeframe. Sinners regenerate from their souls, and are considered impossible to kill without destroying their souls, thus rendering all physical damage worthless over time.

Do we all agree on this little idea?

I don't know if we even have the sinners at this level of Regen but 100% agree

Exorcist will get Immortality 2 and 8 for Angelic Weapons and have limb regeneration when they are motivated enough. So it isn’t combat applicable

sounds good (though I personally think it should be conditional or be wings only)

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't know if we even have the sinners at this level of Regen but 100% agree

Yeah we'd be upgrading the sinners too

 

[ShionAH]

I will make another CRT with just direct arguments on the OP if everyone agrees with that last proposal, that should make it easier to get staff

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Exorcists shouldn't get Type 8.
Adam shouldn't either if he's getting Low-Godly.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Why not use Pentious regen feat lol, if we are at it

 

[ShionAH]

Exorcists shouldn't get Type 8.

Why not? What do you propose for Immortality then

Adam shouldn't either if he's getting Low-Godly.

All Sinners would get it and they would still also have Type 8, why not?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Why not? What do you propose for Immortality then

They have Type 2 rn, right?
I don't see why they'd get anything else.

All Sinners would get it and they would still also have Type 8, why not?

Everyone with Low-Godly regen is reliant on their soul, it ain't something special.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Blud hasn't watched the 8th Helluva Boss short

Enlighted me

 

[DarkLock92]

Enlighted me

There is no 8th short

 

[ShionAH]

They have Type 2 rn, right?
I don't see why they'd get anything else.

Because they wouldn’t die without AW so they are actually reliant on their souls without Low godly

Everyone with Low-Godly regen is reliant on their soul, it ain't something special.

Sure whatever it changes nothing really