Heaven Revision (Hazbin Hotel)

[ShionAH]

Back at it again

• Adam. Immortality (Type 8), Regeneration (Low-High)

Sinners are immortal because they are already dead and cannot go to another after life exactly the same way Winner's would. It was believed the Angels were invincible, unharmable. Later confirmed once again and that they are unafraid of harm. With Adam specifically showing quick regeneration and only seeing Angelic attacks such as Sir Pentious as a threat.

This leads me to my opinion on the exorcist, right now I think they are really underrated. I KNOW they have antifeats but right now their profiles don't make ANY sense at all. So my proposal?

• Exorcist. Immortality (Type 8), Regeneration (Low-Mid)

Unlike Adam they lack the Sinner/Winner argument, but I know the questions that will come my way so let me explain my idea on how it works. We saw how quickly Vaggie was able to heal his wings the MOMENT she wanted and willed it, Lute's arm isn't healed because she cannot let go of Adam's death and clearly holds that grief (literally gone insane). What I am tryna get is that Exorcist have Regeneration when they will it, IN case it's something that they literally don't want to heal deep down through emotional reasons. And unlike Sinners they can heal at whim making them effectively "invincible" without the use of Angelic Weapons.

This perfectly explains everything and makes sense by what we see in the show. Before anyone says it yes we know Exorcist can definitely kill Overlords who should be able to hold their own yet can't and consider them unstoppable, which right now doesn't make any sense as they leck Regeneration AND Immortality AND Invulnerability while also clearly not being Durability Merchants through their feats...

This is HEAVILY consistent with Goetia being also unbeatable without Angelic Weapons and healing anything else quickly.

I will repeat myself so a certain group of people hear it, the ENTIRE plot of S1 makes NO SENSE if we don't give them anything.

• Lucifer

He believed even with Angelic steel Vox wouldn't be able to kill him, he resists all their effects bar Power Null and should have the same Immortality and Regeneration as Sinners because he literally created even more Immortal beings (Goetia) lol.

• Resistances

Now this is controversial. I think Charlie, Emily, Alastor, Overlords, Lucifer Exorcist Army and Adam... wait. This is basically anyone that's not weaker than Vox.

We got two options either we assume it only works on lower and weaker beings and give resistance to anyone stronger which makes sense OR we give it to people who should logically or directly have it. Charlie, Emily and the Overlords weren't hypnotized despite the entire audience being. Vox had to go and convince Carmilla and directly showed that it doesn't work on Val. Pretty consistent, he didn't use it on Lucifer despite the fact that he could have instead of needing to depend on him being stupid and then Vox considers Exorcist unstoppable and invincible like the rest of Hell which wouldn't make sense if he could just control them at any time with some prep (especially with how egotistical he is). At last... we have this for Al

• Adam's IQ

Gifted (While Adam generally fights those who can't harm him at all, in times against those who can harm him or at least put up a fight, he can dice through swarms of attacks and utilize his usually overwhelming power very effectively. Instantly deduced who the creator of the forcefield was in the heat of battle, after Alastor avoided his direct attacks Adam used his creativity to create a shockwave attack mid battle to take out Alastor's power source without letting him avoid it

---

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Mythic381]

he resists all their effects

Didn't resist their power nullification.

Anyways, I agree with everything else. And for the resistance to hypnosis part:

We got two options either we assume it only works on lower and weaker beings and give resistance to anyone stronger which makes sense

I agree with this.

 

[ShionAH]

Didn't resist their power nullification.

I lowkey forgot about that, you are right.

 

[ShionAH]

I agree with this.

I added something else

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Disagree with the Exorcist thing. It’s clearly not as simple as “willing it” otherwise there’s no reason Lute wouldn’t have gotten her arm back when she charged at Vaggie. There was a solid couple minutes of fighting where she never even attempts to restore it, and if their regen is really that weak, Exorcists wouldn’t be treated as invincible in the first place. Also this whole grief explanation is wayyyyyy too speculative to be something we use.

That and I really don’t see why Exorcists would need some special ability, especially one that’s basically a worse version of what Sinners and Overlords already have, to be viewed as invincible to the other two groups. The much simpler explanation is that they’re just that strong and wield weapons that negate the immortality of Sinners.
Like let's be fr, if Lute got her hands on Vox here, she would’ve turned him into a kebab lol

For Adam tho

Sinners are immortal because they are already dead and cannot go to another after life exactly the same way Winner's would.

Is this really the only explanation we have on their immortality? None of the WoG says anything about it being a punishment or whatever? If so, yeah it's fine.

Remove the "invincible" army junk though, it's explicitly referring to the Exorcists and has nothing to do with Adam's regen (Unless you think he's been hurt by rando Sinners)

 

[Mythic381]

I added something else

I know jackshit about intelligence so I can't really comment on that.

 

[ShionAH]

That and I really don’t see why Exorcists would need some special ability, especially one that’s basically a worse version of what Sinners and Overlords already have, to be viewed as invincible to the other two groups. The much simpler explanation is that they’re just that strong and wield weapons that negate the immortality of Sinners.
Like let's be fr, if Lute got her hands on Vox here, she would’ve turned him into a kebab lol

Why in the f would they be considered Invincible if they have normal durability, no immortality and no invulnerability? So Sinners think people who are EASIER to kill than them are unstoppable and invincible threats? Do you even believe this yourself?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Why in the f would they be considered Invincible if they have normal durability, no immortality and no invulnerability? So Sinners think people who are EASIER to kill than them are unstoppable and invincible threats? Do you even believe this yourself?

What makes you think they have normal durability? Them running into the barrier made by the #3 of the verse, that AWs couldn't pierce, and getting hurt?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why in the f would they be considered Invincible if they have normal durability, no immortality and no invulnerability? So Sinners think people who are EASIER to kill than them are unstoppable and invincible threats? Do you even believe this yourself?

Normal sinner vs Overlord-tiers ends in a gored Sinner most of the time..

 

[ShionAH]

What makes you think they have normal durability? Them running into the barrier made by the #3 of the verse, that AWs couldn't pierce, and getting hurt?

Also why would they be hurt by anything Al does if Hell sees them as invincible. Actually DO YOU have any proof they have INSANE durability UP until hitting their heads on Alastor's... forcefield I guess??

Normal sinner vs Overlord-tiers ends in a gored Sinner most of the time..

Overlords also die to these chums, why would they also consider the angels invincible when we know that they can hold their own against them.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Overlords also die to these chums, why would they also consider the angels invincible when we know that they can hold their own against them.

When? And do you have anything proving the big man didn't do it?

 

[ShionAH]

When?

Look at the OP?? Tf

And do you have anything proving the big man didn't do it?

Exorcist were confident on taking on Carmilla, which wouldn't make any sense if they specifically had Adam take care of them.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

First thing is an Exorcist hitting an Exorcist, so ???
And if you want to use the falling rubble, you should probably also use the Velvette breaking from the fall of V Tower thing.

Also why would they be hurt by anything Al does if Hell sees them as invincible.

Alastor is the strongest Sinner, he's so much stronger than everyone else, that even when his power source is broken, he's STILL stronger than everyone.

 

[ShionAH]

First thing is an Exorcist hitting an Exorcist, so ???

Vaggie was getting hurt by being slammed into a table

And if you want to use the falling rubble, you should probably also use the Velvette breaking from the fall of V Tower thing.

Well you guys used it to say they don't have Inv so I am gonna use it to say they don't just have unspecified durability.

Alastor is the strongest Sinner, he's so much stronger than everyone else, that even when his power source is broken, he's STILL stronger than everyone.

Doesn't matter, all he is doing is putting a defensive shield which they get injured by... HITTING THEIR HEADS ON IT. Lol. Like that's far from anything impressive, do YOU have any impressive durability feats for them?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Vaggie was getting hurt by being slammed into a table

And both Vox and Velvette got incapacitated from being slammed into glass and a car respectively lol

Well you guys used it to say they don't have Inv so I am gonna use it to say they don't just have unspecified durability.

Here's how I see it, regular gunfire works on Overlords, it clearly doesn't on Exorcists.

Doesn't matter, all he is doing is putting a defensive shield which they get injured by... HITTING THEIR HEADS ON IT. Lol. Like that's far from anything impressive, do YOU have any impressive durability feats for them?

So their AP scales to their durability, this proves, something?

 

[Mythic381]

So their AP scales to their durability, this proves, something?

I'm waiting for the DB example

 

[ShionAH]

And both Vox and Velvette got incapacitated from being slammed into glass and a car respectively lol

Okay?

Here's how I see it, regular gunfire works on Overlords, it clearly doesn't on Exorcists.

How do we know it doesn't work on the Exorcist? Is it because Angel used Angelic bullets??

So their AP scales to their durability, this proves, something?

Here is Carmilla hurting Vaggie with her normal basic kicks.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

How do we know it doesn't work on the Exorcist? Is it because Angel used Angelic bullets??

Not much need for Angelic Bullets if normal bullets could do the trick, don't ya think?
Also the dozen or so statements about how they're invincible.

• Charlie refers to the Angels as "an invincible Exorcist army".
• Alastor says "they're not as indestructable as they appear".
• Carmilla explains that Vaggie fights like someone unafraid of harm, just like all Exorcists.

Here is Carmilla hurting Vaggie with her normal basic kicks.

Basic kicks, with an Angelic Weapon?

 

[ShionAH]

Basic kicks, with an Angelic Weapon?

Why are you lying to my face?

She knees Vaggie.

Another knee (?)

She is also CLEARLY not using the sharp end of her boots because that shit one shots her sisters, it's basic kicks.

 

[Mythic381]

Another knee (?)

I slowed it down a bit, that's not kneeing her. First clip works though.

 

[ShionAH]

I slowed it down a bit, that's not kneeing her.

It is a knee.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Why are you lying to my face?

She knees Vaggie.

Another knee (?)

She is also CLEARLY not using the sharp end of her boots because that shit one shots her sisters, it's basic kicks.

The glowing parts are all Angelic Steel.

Also does this sound like the conversation someone with the power to just hurt Exorcists with her regular attacks would have?

Vaggie: Argh! With what? Some secret weapon of yours?

Carmilla: Stupid girl, are you really so dense you don't realize you're holding the answer?

Vaggie: Angelic weapons? It's that simple? How has no one else figured this out?

Carmilla: Angelic steel isn't common, and those who have it aren't exactly rushing off to test it against exorcists.

 

[ShionAH]

And I refuse to believe THIS knee only worked because of a single stripe of white when we see the part that hit Vaggie's nose is black and normal

 

[ShionAH]

This also is clearly a normal ahh knee attack, it's done by the end of her knee that isn't white

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The fact it glowed at all proves it has Angelic Steel in it, the same thing that was undamaged from a fall from Heaven to Hell, and lets Sinners hurt Exorcists.

Like genuinely according to you, you think Carmilla was just lying about how the only reason she could kill that one Exorcist is cause she hit them with an AW?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Oh yeah this is relevant.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I 100% agree with Adam Regen, disagree with Excorcit Regen, exceedly disagree with Adam Gifted intelligence

 

[ShionAH]

exceedly disagree with Adam Gifted intelligence

Why

Also what are the general opinions on giving Exorcist Immortality Type 8 and weak ahh Regeneration from Vaggie healing herself

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

What is the Type 8 even based on? They're reliant on... themselves? That's just Type 3.

 

[ShionAH]

What is the Type 8 even based on? They're reliant on... themselves? That's just Type 3.

Soul, the thing that makes AW threatening

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Soul, the thing that makes AW threatening

That's just Low-Godly regen in a disguise

 

[ShionAH]

That's just Low-Godly regen in a disguise

Be quiet, boy.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Also what about Pentious? His soul was erased and then brought back?

This reminds me of when DB had Soul Mani-

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't think Immortality type 8 like, fits excorcists. The entire situation is weird, and I'd prefer to have something more solid.

Adam's regen upgrade... I don't like it, and frankly Hellaverse regen really needs work to say what's combat-applicable and what's not, but at least there's some logic in it.

Spoiler: Though, something has to go

Adam's Regeneration Negation resistance has to go. Getting stabbed repeatedly by an angelic knife was how he died in the first place, and that holds way more weight than a random scene... since it's, y'know, why he isn't here outside of Lute being a crazy *****.

Also, I see you're trying to upgrade Adam's skill intelligence... no. First of all, it doesn't take some gifted ****** to know fancy pants radio guy standing at the top of the hotel aurafarming is the one who made the shield. Second of all, Alastor not dodging is literally just a problem with his in-character, not Adam's skill. Etcetera.

Also skill doesn't have ratings anymore so say goodbye to like 12-15 bytes.

And the one thing I'm vehement on is giving out resistance to mind manip willy nilly. Complete conjecture and theorizing on things never stated in the series. Also, basing it on strength? Really? Alastor who was weaker than 100% Vox stared at that shit with no issues. Just give the resistance to Alastor, maybe other overlords, and nobody else. This series ceased making sense from a plot standpoint halfway through season 1 Hazbin and season 2 Helluva anyways. Giving arbitrary limiters on Vox's mindhax in a very, VERY poorly veiled attempt to wank Adam just a little bit higher is not the play.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Why

I honestly don't believe that giving Adam's a skilless bum like Reaper, but giving adam Gifted intellect from his performance against alastor doesn't at all feel right.
"Instantly deduced who the creator of the forcefield was in the heat of battle". Counterpoint- "Who the **** are you," Adam upon meeting Alastor, the guy who made the shield.
"after Alastor avoided his direct attacks Adam used his creativity to create a shockwave attack mid battle to take out Alastor's power source without letting him avoid it" This point doesn't scream "creative" to me, it just seems that he's just using his light the moment he feels presured or exceedingly annoyed, similarly to when he frame-1 holy lights Pentiou or holy light spams when he fight Lucifer who was dodging him a lot

Also what are the general opinions on giving Exorcist Immortality Type 8 and weak ahh Regeneration from Vaggie healing herself

My opions on type 8 are the same as Edens and I think should be Excorcist Regen should either be conditional (needs to use the power of love) or limited (only heals wings)

 

[Alexander]

giving Adam gifted intelligence in military should be a insult to generals.
Ignoring things like his girls leaving weapons lying around, the guy not knowing they could be damaged, and Alastor giving him a lot of trouble and only winning because of his immense strength, not his combat strategies (and it does not take a big brain to know WHO IS THE ONE WHO MADE THE SHIELD)

It should also be noted that he lost an argument against Charlie, where instead of presenting arguments (which he didn't have, by the way, because he was making them up), he decided he should simply humiliate and psychologically destroy her, instead of offering sound arguments.

anything else is just weird, like...why?

 

[ShionAH]

Also what about Pentious? His soul was erased and then brought back?

We have no idea how redemption works, we don’t even know if P died or got redeemed right before the point of impact

I don't think Immortality type 8 like, fits excorcists. The entire situation is weird, and I'd prefer to have something more solid.

Any bright ideas?

Adam's Regeneration Negation resistance has to go. Getting stabbed repeatedly by an angelic knife was how he died in the first place, and that holds way more weight than a random scene... since it's, y'know, why he isn't here outside of Lute being a crazy *****.

Eh? I don’t think so because we know Angelic Weapons erase your soul when they land a lethal hit meanwhile other times it just stops regeneration (see Al’s scar).

I really don’t care about your other disagreements since Ik you wont change your mind.

"Who the **** are you," Adam upon meeting Alastor, the guy who made the shield.

I said Adam knew who made the shield not who Alastor is wtf?

"after Alastor avoided his direct attacks Adam used his creativity to create a shockwave attack mid battle to take out Alastor's power source without letting him avoid it" This point doesn't scream "creative" to me, it just seems that he's just using his light the moment he feels presured or exceedingly annoyed, similarly to when he frame-1 holy lights Pentiou or holy light spams when he fight Lucifer who was dodging him a lot

He literally never uses this specific shockwave method again, he specifically used it to counter Alastor

Ignoring things like his girls leaving weapons lying around

This is objectively a good idea since it makes it so Sinners can drop their numbers on their own through it.

the guy not knowing they could be damaged

How is this bad intelligence?

It should also be noted that he lost an argument against Charlie, where instead of presenting arguments (which he didn't have, by the way, because he was making them up), he decided he should simply humiliate and psychologically destroy her, instead of offering sound arguments.

Just completely irrelevant to the combat intelligence

anything else is just weird, like...why?

Wtf are you talking about? This is pure disrespect. disagree an then gtfo the revision if you don’t like it

 

[Alexander]

We have no idea how redemption works, we don’t even know if P died or got redeemed right before the point of impact

Why did it took so much time for Sir Pentious to show up if he was just saved in the last moment?

Any bright ideas?

just don't give them that

Eh? I don’t think so because we know Angelic Weapons erase your soul when they land a lethal hit meanwhile other times it just stops regeneration (see Al’s scar).

that only happens if you get killed, the weapons just leave permanent damage in general.

I really don’t care about your other disagreements since Ik you wont change your mind.

if you know him

I said Adam knew who made the shield not who Alastor is wtf?

again, anyone can see who made the shield by just looking, it is not rocket science.

He literally never uses this specific shockwave method again, he specifically used it to counter Alastor

then that is on him for being a dumbass.

This is objectively a good idea since it makes it so Sinners can drop their numbers on their own through it.

spoiler: THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN AT ALL, and instead, Carmilla was able to use this to make profit (and worse of all, he gave them weapons, which caused problems way later by killing more of his army and also being a good way for the sinners to truly be a treat)

How is this bad intelligence?

i don't know man, probably the girl who lost her eye?or the one who got decapitated?"can we get hurt?" NO SHIT SHERLOCK.

Just completely irrelevant to the combat intelligence

If his arguments are equally has good has his fighting skills...

Wtf are you talking about? This is pure disrespect. disagree an then gtfo the revision if you don’t like it

i will disagree with everything then

 

[DaReaperMan]

Any bright ideas?

Nope! Like I said, this series make no lore sense the instant you try to make sense of it. Durability was a band-aid solution for a problem that needs stitches, and we don't got no needles and string.

Eh? I don’t think so because we know Angelic Weapons erase your soul when they land a lethal hit meanwhile other times it just stops regeneration (see Al’s scar).

Adam could still move his face and talk and shit, it didn't just nuke his soul right then and there... and considering his higher end regen is something I don't like but am fine with existing... hmmmm...

Regeneration (As a Winner, Adam has regenerative immortality capable of healing practically any wound given time, due to the simple fact he is already dead, just like Sinners. Combat Applicable: High-Low; Comparable to sinners like Valentino whom can be impaled through the chest and instantly heal. Practically instantly healed being stabbed deep by Charlie's Pitchfork. Possibly High-Mid; Comparable to one of Velvette's models who was literally torn to pieces by Valentino and recovered in hours to possibly over 24 hours. Low-High over time; Comparable to Sinners who can be eaten and digested and still come back over an unknown timeframe)

I really don’t care about your other disagreements since Ik you wont change your mind.

Fair enough.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ya know what? **** it. Upgrade.

Regeneration (As a Winner, Adam has regenerative immortality capable of healing practically any wound given time, due to the simple fact he is already dead, just like Sinners. Combat Applicable: High-Low; Comparable to sinners like Valentino whom can be impaled through the chest and instantly heal. Practically instantly healed being stabbed deep by Charlie's Pitchfork. Possibly High-Mid; Comparable to one of Velvette's models who was literally torn to pieces by Valentino and recovered in hours to possibly over 24 hours. Low-High, Possibly Low-Godly over time; Comparable to Sinners who can be eaten and digested and still come back over an unknown timeframe. Sinners regenerate from their souls, and are considered impossible to kill without destroying their souls, thus rendering all physical damage worthless over time.)