The 1-A Madness Combat Revision.

[Comiphorous]

This was a long time coming, wasn't it? About time I actually got this guy a profile. The big 1-A MAN (not so man) HIM(them)SELF! THE MAKERRRRR

themaker

vsbattles.fandom.com

Explaination​

I have written a full Cosmology Blog to go along with The Maker, and the tiering for The Employers, The Machine, and most importantly The Maker is explained fully in here.

Madness Combat Cosmology Blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Harith0cell]

Agree with tier 1-A

 

[ZeedKZ]

Dawg, didn't knew that guy from the outskirts that ran away was the Maker, barely noticed the walls when I played first time.

Yeah, this seems simple enough.

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

Yeah I agree

 

[Re5yh]

Sorry, we dont really allow these types of profiles on this verse since we like to.
 

Spoiler: .

Agree

 

[Comiphorous]

Dawg, didn't knew that guy from the outskirts that ran away was the Maker, barely noticed the walls when I played first time.

He directly says he's Mr. M (aka the guy in the outskirts) in the Burger Gil ARG here.

 

[Reiner04]

I vaguely remember there being another thread like this in the past with some character named maker affected by his creation machine. Is there any such anti feat in the verse?

 

[Comiphorous]

I vaguely remember there being another thread like this in the past with some character named maker affected by his creation machine. Is there any such anti feat in the verse?

The Maker talks about how they are completely immune to The Machine UNLESS he purposefully goes down into a plane of existence (Such as going into Nevada/Madness Combat universe) where The Machine can actually see him. Outside of that specific scenario, The Machine cannot affect The Maker.

 

[Reiner04]

The Maker talks about how they are completely immune to The Machine UNLESS he purposefully goes down into a plane of existence (Such as going into Nevada/Madness Combat universe) where The Machine can actually see him. Outside of that specific scenario, The Machine cannot affect The Maker.

Thats still a anti feat for the maker. He is not supposed to be affected by the machine in any sense. Heck he is not even supposed to be able to visit the lower plane of existence without breaking it.

 

[Comiphorous]

Thats still a anti feat for the maker. He is not supposed to be affected by the machine in any sense.

And The Maker directly states they can't be affected by The Machine.

Nevada is a riddle with no solution. A setup. With no punchline. The Machine, Nevada's Syntax, The Maker, The will behind the pen. All things that are, exist as a part of The Machine's limitless sprawl. All, that is, but the Highest Power, and the abyssal Depths beneath Nevada. The story that is told is nearing its end.

It's not until The Machine's redefinition that The Machine becomes powerful enough to potentially affect the maker.

The Maker must remain unseen, unperceived by The Machine. Unknown to a structure that defines and is defined not only by matter, and space, and time, but by purpose. Intent. Fate. Every story told is a cog in the framework of The Machine. Every hero. Every Villain. A subject of its influence. Pulling the machine closer to its redefinition. Closer to The Madness. But the eldest of all storytellers must not be dragged by The Machine into the corrupted depths beneath Nevada. Should this come to pass, then the chaos of that realm would rewrite all things, for all time. The story that is told is nearing its end.

This isn't an anti-feat of The Maker since he objectively does have a reality-fiction transcendence to the series, even to The Machine. It's a feat of The Machine that was previously fiction to The Maker getting strong enough to potentially affect The Maker.

 

[Reiner04]

It's not until The Machine's redefinition that The Machine becomes powerful enough to potentially affect the maker.

Thats whzt i am trying to say, is the redefinition something that Maker "allows" for the purpose of being affected by the machine? Or it's mean Machine is being helped by someone within same plane of existence as Maker?

If not any of those then it does count as Anti-feat.

 

[Comiphorous]

Thats whzt i am trying to say, is the redefinition something that Maker "allows" for the purpose of being affected by the machine? Or it's mean Machine is being helped by someone within same plane of existence as Maker?

What you described in the Latter is more or less what's happening. As it gets closer to it's redefinition, it's getting closer to The Madness. The Madness is that 'thing' that will allow it to affect The Maker. He briefly speaks of it;

Nevada soon plunges into its darkest era. What happens next will unleash unspeakable horrors, most of all for myself. None of us are long for Nevada. But you? You, Player? You will be spared the fate of all others. You will never know the Hellfire. Your sacrifice is your reward.

And now, our time together has tragically reached an end. Good luck to you both. Nevada will not survive The Madness without your combined strength.

Outside of the circumstances of The Machine and The Madness, The Maker sees it as fiction, but during the events of the game that event is already in the process of happening, and hence is a threat. The Madness corrupting The Machine is what The Maker speaks of that will drag him into the abyss below Nevada and is it's darkest era.

 

[Reiner04]

What you described in the Latter is more or less what's happening. As it gets closer to it's redefinition, it's getting closer to The Madness. The Madness is that 'thing' that will allow it to affect The Maker. He briefly speaks of it;





Outside of the circumstances of The Machine and The Madness, The Maker sees it as fiction, but during the events of the game that event is already in the process of happening, and hence is a threat. The Madness corrupting The Machine is what The Maker speaks of that will drag him into the abyss below Nevada and is it's darkest era.

Machine shouldn't be able to gets closer to the madness on its own either if it exist in Maker's plane of existence, besides that you should as well give the info about what madness is and if it exist in the same plane of existence as maker.

 

[Comiphorous]

Machine shouldn't be able to gets closer to the madness on its own either if it exist in Maker's plane of existence, besides that you should as well give the info about what madness is and if it exist in the same plane of existence as maker.

Then what tier would The Maker qualify for? He still makes it clear he sees the world as fiction, even if The Machine can affect him.

 

[Reiner04]

Then what tier would The Maker qualify for? Low 1-A?

Thats the tricky part about those who are supposed to be 1-A but can't be 1-A due to Anti-feat. I think they can be Low 1-C but i am not sure. I will have to consult other staffs regarding it.

@Planck69 @Qawsedf234 @DontTalkDT @Vietthai96
Your opinion on the thread will be appreciated.

 

[Comiphorous]

I think they can be Low 1-C but i am not sure.

Being Low 1-C doesn't make much sense since he transcends a Low 1-C already.

but yeah, some more staff input would probably make this easier.

 

[Reiner04]

Being Low 1-C doesn't make much sense since he transcends a Low 1-C already.

I see, i believe there is need to be more info provided regarding said trancendence and how far they transcends before i make a judgement on it.

 

[Comiphorous]

I see, i believe there is need to be more info provided regarding said trancendence and how far they transcends before i make a judgement on it.

Simply put;

The Maker transecends everything that makes up the machine, which is the entire series including the individual characters inside of it, including the auditor and his realm as they're apart of The Machine.

All things that are, exist as a part of The Machine's limitless sprawl. All, that is, but the Highest Power, and the abyssal Depths beneath Nevada. The story that is told is nearing its end.

The Maker must remain unseen, unperceived by The Machine. Unknown to a structure that defines and is defined not only by matter, and space, and time, but by purpose. Intent. Fate. Every story told is a cog in the framework of The Machine. Every hero. Every Villain. A subject of its influence. Pulling the machine closer to its redefinition. Closer to The Madness.

That bond is slavery to a machine that only you have glimpsed, an algorithmic system that puppeteers the actions of the oblivious masses.

The Machine is also far bigger than the cosmology, as 2BDamned says this;

The Machine is far grander a concept than any of us could have guessed. We are as much a part of it as any single facet of Nevada...

 

[Maniaunavailable]

agree with reiner here, but if he completly sees a low 1-C realm as literally fiction shouldnt he be way higher than that?

 

[Comiphorous]

agree with reiner here, but if he completly sees a low 1-C realm as literally fiction shouldnt he be way higher than that?

Yes. It's just a task of figuring out what exactly that warrants tier wise.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Yes. It's just a task of figuring out what exactly that warrants tier wise.

where can i see the cosmology btw

 

[Reiner04]

Yes. It's just a task of figuring out what exactly that warrants tier wise.

Ig it will be either 1-C or Low 1-A. I am quite not sure since i don't know how are we supposed to treat 1-A beings with Anti-feats, thus require more input.

 

[Comiphorous]

where can i see the cosmology btw

There isn't an accepted cosmology blog, but this is an unfinished one i made last year.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

There isn't an accepted cosmology blog, but this is an unfinished one i made last year.

yeah so its either 5D or low 1A, not in between lmao

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Ig it will be either 1-C or Low 1-A. I am quite not sure since i don't know how are we supposed to treat 1-A beings with Anti-feats, thus require more input.

If the only justification for 1A is R > F, then it is a dimensional jump or nothing. For Low 1A, one of their justifications would need to be superiority over all possible dimensions.

 

[CitRusReality64]

Thats whzt i am trying to say, is the redefinition something that Maker "allows" for the purpose of being affected by the machine? Or it's mean Machine is being helped by someone within same plane of existence as Maker?

If not any of those then it does count as Anti-feat.

The Maker created The Machine and used The Machine to create the verse, so I don't think it would downgrade

 

[CitRusReality64]

If the only justification for 1A is R > F, then it is a dimensional jump or nothing. For Low 1A, one of their justifications would need to be superiority over all possible dimensions.

The Maker already possess Paraconsistent Physiology due to being unbounded by the things The Machine defines, including space-time. And Low 1-A can be argued due to The Machine defining core aspects of reality on a metaphysical level, it defines core concepts of information of abstract aspects including space-time

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

I feel like you can just argue the machine having r>f as well although I'm not sure if it would be allowed

 

[Comiphorous]

I feel like you can just argue the machine having r>f as well although I'm not sure if it would be allowed

I mean yeah, The Machine has evidence of that too. The issue is that no matter what The Maker confirms he transcends even The Machine, so it still causes the problem of The Machine being able to affect beings which transcend it.

It would just means The Maker would scale even higher in that case.

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

I mean yeah, The Machine has evidence of that too. The issue is that no matter what The Maker confirms he transcends even The Machine, so it still causes the problem of The Machine being able to affect beings which transcend it.

It would just means The Maker would scale even higher in that case.

I see

 

[Maniaunavailable]

If the only justification for 1A is R > F, then it is a dimensional jump or nothing. For Low 1A, one of their justifications would need to be superiority over all possible dimensions.

The maker already transcends dimensions

 

[Vesxpura]

Ig it will be either 1-C or Low 1-A. I am quite not sure since i don't know how are we supposed to treat 1-A beings with Anti-feats, thus require more input.

If an anti feat is present for 1A then they would just go to the next plausible tier, since unless the r>f transcendence is relevant to its prior scaling, theres no reason asto why it would necessarily "downgrade" them to anything below what they already were/will be. (We can take the ggz yog-sothoth profile as an example, since the reasoning seems to qualify for 1A, however there are some antifeats and therefore shes limited to low1-A)

 

[CitRusReality64]

also, add BDE Type 2/3 to the maker's profile if he is going to be low1-A/1-A

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

The Maker already possess Paraconsistent Physiology due to being unbounded by the things The Machine defines, including space-time. And Low 1-A can be argued due to The Machine defining core aspects of reality on a metaphysical level, it defines core concepts of information of abstract aspects including space-time

Doesn't the machine also make up what the auditors who are the core funmential concepts of nevada that if one of them would to ever die or stop existing then so would Nevada

 

[Comiphorous]

Doesn't the machine also make up what the auditors are who are the core funmential crocepts of nevada that if one of them would to ever die or stop existing then so would Nevada

Y'know, The Machine already does make up fundamental concepts of Nevada even without that statement.

It's a fairly big story plot that it literally makes up everything and it's fall would make the entire cosmology stop existing.

 

[CitRusReality64]

Doesn't the machine also make up what the auditors who are the core funmential concepts of nevada that if one of them would to ever die or stop existing then so would Nevada

Yes, it does, Employers and Machine embody independent type 1 concepts, on a cosmological scale. And Machine was described as a metaphysical entity by 2Bdamned.

Machine and Maker R>F this, and Maker is out right unbounded and is transdual to it

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

Y'know, The Machine already does make up fundamental concepts of Nevada even without that statement.

I think that would still give more justification for it.

It's a fairly big story plot that it literally makes up everything and it's fall would make the entire cosmology stop existing.

To be honest it does quite literally make up the plot itself

 

[Comiphorous]

I think that would still give more justification for it.

I just hate WoG statements, especially with this verse since Krinkels has at times contradicted himself or been unsure of his answers.

I usually only use them if they're literally just supporting evidence for something that was already implied/stated in game but just needs something a little more to be more concrete.

To be honest it does quite literally make up the plot itself

Correct.

 

[CitRusReality64]

I just hate WoG statements, especially with this verse since Krinkels has at times contradicted himself or been unsure of his answers.

I usually only use them if they're literally just supporting evidence for something that was already implied/stated in game but just needs something a little more to be more concrete.

I kind of agree with this. Some statements are contradictory and or not reliable anymore. I think using Krinkles' statements from Discord about The Machine is fine since that kind of stuff is already supported by the game, but VSBW probably wont accept it. So it might just be best to keep it off-site

 

[Comiphorous]

I kind of agree with this. Some statements are contradictory and or not reliable anymore. I think using Krinkles' statements from Discord about The Machine is fine since that kind of stuff is already supported by the game, but VSBW probably wont accept it. So it might just be best to keep it off-site

The discord statements are likely a no-go since they're easy to fake.