The Long Awaited Hazbin Hotel Season 2 CRT

[DaReaperMan]

snip

Also, I added only gets the tiers with singing to the OP and added you as voting for it, do you have any preference for 5-B, Low 5-B, or possibly/likely ratings between low 5-B and 5-B?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It's just it being far away. You can get the same visual effect when you draw stars lol.

The pentagram that covers the sky of hell passes behind heaven.

This is a layer behind heaven, meaning it's higher than heaven.

From the image, heaven is inside the sky of hell.

 

[DaReaperMan]

higher than heaven.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Also, I added only gets the tiers with singing to the OP and added you as voting for it, do you have any preference for 5-B, Low 5-B, or possibly/likely ratings between low 5-B and 5-B?

Prefer 5-B. It shrinking when Emily started to get tired makes no sense if it's their accumulated power.
Also the Power of Song amp Low 5-B timeframe would be different than the regular one, cause they're not diegetically singing in the Lute and Abel parts.

 

[MrTayman616]

Same literal polygon article.

Not the same nor even included in the interview. They made their own conclusion which doesn't have any weight here.

Also, the entrance of that way would be the same as how the beam entered heaven, entering to the gates of heaven.

Holy shit man we're still on the "B-But they're physical r-representations..." I thought we debunked that in the following week for the season 2 finale coming out...

Could you link it please?

 

[MrTayman616]

Why would they even see it? The beam took time to destroy all of the barrier and pass through it, which is why they didn't see it at that point.

Huh? is the beam invisible.

Even you're saying it took time for it to destroy the barrier, Why would they not realise a beam that is destroying the barrier.

The beam didn't enter through space from their perspextive, but from the gates of heaven.


We quite literally see it onscreen.

Because it wasn't hitting

Exactly. Quite literally passes through the "planet" from Hell's perspective.

It doesn't really hit anything on Heaven, because the "heaven" appearing in Hell is different.

Okay

Okay.

What does it's size have to do with anything? It looked large from afar but when it destroyed Heaven's gate it was way smaller. I don't see what the other point proves?

My overall point talks about the size of "heaven" appearing in Hell.

I'll read my comment tomorrow to see if i wrote something else there.

She also mentions that physical travel is possible, so teleportation is really not relevant. It being called a representation in itself is sufficient prove to scale it in size to a planet, especially when it's a place that dead people inhabit and overpopulate.

Real heaven, yes.

The one appearing in Hell that is below the pentagram shaped thing that even Hell's cloud can reach?

Which that isn't even visible in the actual heaven.

There are too many contradictions for that to be the case.

Sorry for any grammar mistake etc. using my phone :d

 

[Mythic381]

Huh? is the beam invisible.

What? The beam was still hitting the barrier when they were looking at it, and when it actually destroyed the barrier we don't get to see the perspective of the people seeing the beam.

Even you're saying it took time for it to destroy the barrier, Why would they not realise a beam that is destroying the barrier.

Because the beam was at the very edge of the barrier, there would be no reason for them to see the beam from very far there if it hadn't broke through the barrier yet.

Exactly. Quite literally passes through the "planet" from Hell's perspective.

It doesn't really hit anything on Heaven, because the "heaven" appearing in Hell is different.

How does that in any way concern what the calculation is about or the main feat? It didn't hit anything because there was conveniently nothing in it's path after it destroyed the gates.

Real heaven, yes.

The one appearing in Hell that is below the pentagram shaped thing that even Hell's cloud can reach?

Which that isn't even visible in the actual heaven.

There are too many contradictions for that to be the case.

Sorry for any grammar mistake etc. using my phone :d

That's not a contradiction, it being a representation of Heaven doesn't mean the supposed representation isn't the real thing, as we know the "representation" in question is just referring to the cosmic bodies we see in the sky. That's still Heaven.

 

[Mythic381]

Not the same nor even included in the interview. They made their own conclusion which doesn't have any weight here.

And do you know why said conclusion was deduced?

"It's just because there's a lot of magic and a lot of fantasy in the two universes," Medrano says. "In Hell, they have what essentially acts as a moon or a sun, which is the orb with the pentagram symbol. And then Heaven is its own realm, and that's also in the distance. So we can see the two of them reflected a lot."

Medrano says Heaven and Hell are essentially "like two different planets in a lot of ways — that's kind of how we treat them."

Literally the idea they exist in said same space.

 

[Mommyleona]

4 pages and no mods yet huh

 

[Greatsage13th]

I agree with 5-B, 5-B+ via Lucifer scaling and downscaling Adam from Lucifer, above for reasons.

 

[DarkLock92]

Agree on 5-B+ Lucifer, Adam downscaling to Lucifer and speed upgrades for reasons above.

 

[MrTayman616]

That's not a contradiction, it being a representation of Heaven doesn't mean the supposed representation isn't the real thing, as we know the "representation" in question is just referring to the cosmic bodies we see in the sky. That's still Heaven.

And? I didn't claim something like "it's a representation so of course it's smaller."

Also what? Then planets, stars and similar things are representations as well since they're celestial bodies etc?

What? The beam was still hitting the barrier when they were looking at it, and when it actually destroyed the barrier we don't get to see the perspective of the people seeing the beam.

The same barries that dissolved. Not only it isn't visible from their view of point, it didn't even enter heaven through passing the barrier but from the gates of heaven. Literally onscreen, which the link is already in my original comment.

Because the beam was at the very edge of the barrier, there would be no reason for them to see the beam from very far there if it hadn't broke through the barrier yet.

They see the barrier starting to dissolve from a point, they'd be able to see that.

Doesn't explain why it entered heaven through the gates of heaven rather than ourside the planet as well.

How does that in any way concern what the calculation is about or the main feat? It didn't hit anything because there was conveniently nothing in it's path after it destroyed the gates.

Do you not see how contradictory it is with your claims?

The beam literally destroys through the "planet"'s one side to another from what appears in Hell, but no destruction in Heaven. It doesn't even passes through but enters from the gates.

And do you know why said conclusion was deduced?

Literally the idea they exist in said same space.

Huh, that's only reading half of it.

---

Even without everything there, it doesn't even answer more obvious things.

Not to mention, "Heaven" literally appears to be below the pentagram shape in Hell(Literally almost always shown to be the case, some instantly collected examples here). It's not even actually visible in heaven. Further proving the point of being different realms and only a representation in hell.

Let me make it more clear, it is ABSURD. There are literally clouds of hell that are above that pentagram shape while "Heaven" is below it(Heaven consistently appears in all episodes like that as far as i'm aware). Representation of "Heaven" that appears in Hell is definitely not planet sized.

Hell's clouds are literally appearing ABOVE Heaven, same as that pentagram shape, which not only both are not even visible in heaven, this makes it impossible for that to be planetary in size from Hell's perspective.

Snip

My "comment" which basically has my entire claim in it with proofs onscreen.

Th calc (Might of Lilith) shouldn't be usable, at least the current version.

 

[Mythic381]

And? I didn't claim something like "it's a representation so of course it's smaller."

Also what? Then planets, stars and similar things are representations as well since they're celestial bodies etc?

I never said you claimed that.

That doesn't mean that they're in any way inaccurate to be used? Especially if they're defined to work like planets, and are represented to look like planets, there's no reason for us not to assume that function like ones.

The same barries that dissolved. Not only it isn't visible from their view of point, it didn't even enter heaven through passing the barrier but from the gates of heaven. Literally onscreen, which the link is already in my original comment.

The barrier is 10x larger than the beam, of course the barrier would be seen from anywhere when it encompasses all of Heaven. The beam only hits the barrier from one side, that side being at the very edge of Heaven where the gates are, there would be no reason for them to see the

They see the barrier starting to dissolve from a point, they'd be able to see that.

The barrier which is encompassing all of the planet, not the beam which is hitting it from a specific size.

Doesn't explain why it entered heaven through the gates of heaven rather than ourside the planet as well.

Because that's literally the exact point the beam was aimed at? What kind of argument is that???

Do you not see how contradictory it is with your claims?

The beam literally destroys through the "planet"'s one side to another from what appears in Hell, but no destruction in Heaven. It doesn't even passes through but enters from the gates.

It destroyed the barrier because the barrier is a tangible element encompassing Heaven. Did you want the beam to start destroying air? The only other thing that it hit was the gate which didn't get destroyed because of it's durability.

Huh, that's only reading half of it.

---

Even without everything there, it doesn't even answer more obvious things.

Not a refutation.

Hell's clouds are literally appearing ABOVE Heaven, same as that pentagram shape, which not only both are not even visible in heaven, this makes it impossible for that to be planetary in size.

When looking at the closer shots, we don't actually see the Hell's sky nor the pentagram shape appear in the sky.

 

[MrTayman616]

That doesn't mean that they're in any way inaccurate to be used? Especially if they're defined to work like planets, and are represented to look like planets, there's no reason for us not to assume that function like ones.

I'm not claiming that heaven isn't a planet, but the representation of Heaven in Hell.

There are too many contradictions for that.

The barrier is 10x larger than the beam, of course the barrier would be seen from anywhere when it encompasses all of Heaven. The beam only hits the barrier from one side, that side being at the very edge of Heaven where the gates are, there would be no reason for them to see the

It doesn't even enter Heaven from any "edge" or space. The beam quite literally enters from the gates of heaven. That alone is a contradiction of the claim.

It doesn't hit the very edge or anything from Hell's perspective as well.

Heck, The beam exists from the gates of heaven and breaks it later. It quite literaly falls backwards from the direction the beam was fired from Hell. How can something "fall" from a planet, and not even go to the direction the beam attacked from Hell's perspective.

The barrier which is encompassing all of the planet, not the beam which is hitting it from a specific size.

Huh? The barrier didn't start to dissolve from all directions but a single point where the beam hit.

It destroyed the barrier because the barrier is a tangible element encompassing Heaven. Did you want the beam to start destroying air? The only other thing that it hit was the gate which didn't get destroyed because of it's durability.

Only the barrier? It quite literally goes from one side of "Heaven" to another. Nothing like that.

Because that's literally the exact point the beam was aimed at? What kind of argument is that???

That is wrong unless the beam actually came from the other side and the perspective from hell is an illusion.

When looking at the closer shots, we don't actually see the Hell's sky nor the pentagram shape appear in the sky.

The ring itself is huge. there'd be an instant where it's not visible. (which, that scene is the only one as far as i know)

In all episodes, the pentagram shape is almost always shown to be above Heaven. Extremely consistently.

Also, it not being visible in Heaven is one of my points lol :d

 

[Mythic381]

It doesn't even enter Heaven from any "edge" or space. The beam quite literally enters from the gates of heaven. That alone is a contradiction of the claim.

It doesn't hit the very edge or anything from Hell's perspective as well.

By the "edge" I'm referring to the the side that it begins from, the very right or the very left. Here, it obviously enters Heaven from the edge as it enters Heaven from the far left of the image. Also, the gate IS in the edge, it's literally the part to the far end of Heaven where people enter from, it's not like people enter the gate from the center.

Heck, The beam exists from the gates of heaven and breaks it later. It quite literaly falls backwards from the direction the beam was fired from Hell. How can something "fall" from a planet, and not even go to the direction the beam attacked from Hell's perspective.

Because it's falling? Why would it fall up and not down? Ignoring the obvious gravitational rules broken, but from the perspective that part is down while the beam was moving upwards, meaning it would fall in that direction.

Huh? The barrier didn't start to dissolve from all directions but a single point where the beam hit.

All of the barrier dissolved because of the beam, and that's still unrelated to the actual reason they don't see the beam. The barrier itself is all around Heaven, the beam is way smaller and only moves from one side, which is why they didn't see it because the barrier which stopped it for a couple of seconds is still encompassing Heaven from very far distance to the mainland, and the fact it's in one side is supporting why they couldn't see it. Heck, the fact they somehow could see the barrier that is around Heaven being dissolved despite it not touching Heaven and neither did the beam at that point supports what we visually see.

Only the barrier? It quite literally goes from one side of "Heaven" to another. Nothing like that.

I don't see what does the fact it caused shockwaves as a result of the barrier being destroyed prove.

That is wrong unless the beam actually came from the other side and the perspective from hell is an illusion.

That image in itself makes no sense.

The first image is showcasing that the beam went through all of Heaven and even continued moving, while the second image showcases that it stopped for a second, destroyed the barrier and then continued, which makes no sense when we when literally see the barrier that got destroyed be destroyed from both the outside and the inside of Heaven.

The ring itself is huge. there'd be an instant where it's not visible. (which, that scene is the only one as far as i know)

The first image is literally from the outside of Heaven, as in the space around it literally not showing Hell's sky.

In all episodes, the pentagram shape is almost always shown to be above Heaven. Extremely consistently.

Again, possibility of the distances making it seem like that.

Also, it not being visible in Heaven is one of my points lol :d

It not being visible would be against your point if said sky is above Heaven when we see from the literal outside of the "representation" that it isn't there.

 

[Electronic74947]

4 pages and no mods yet huh

time huh

 

[Mommyleona]

time huh

gravity huh

 

[Electronic74947]

gravity huh

baseball huh

 

[Mythic381]

Did someone message any mods?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Did someone message any mods?

Ye, all the ones that contributed to Hellaverse CRTs (Except Bambu)

 

[Eseseso]

Why do we assume Heaven's tiny sphere is Earth-sized?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

It's a standard assumption, besides it was stated to be bigger than Hell from what I heard.

 

[Mythic381]

Why do we assume Heaven's tiny sphere is Earth-sized?

Standard assumption for a planet, and that "tiny sphere" is bigger than Hell by a statement which narratively makes sense, although that depends on how much you can trust a voice actor...

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It's a standard assumption, besides it was stated to be bigger than Hell from what I heard.

And how big is hell?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

And how big is hell?

It has more people than Heaven, which is said to have a 100 billion souls.
And that's just the Pride Ring, it's got 6 other ones.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It has more people than Heaven, which is said to have a 100 billion souls.
And that's just the Pride Ring, it's got 6 other ones.

Honestly, the number of people doesn't say much about the exact size.

If we take the entire human population that has ever existed (which I think is also something like 100 billion), it wouldn't even occupy much of the Grand Canyon. And the current population of Earth doesn't occupy much of the planet, even disregarding the sea (considering the sea, it's very tiny how much we occupy).

So I think that even places smaller than Earth could accommodate all those beings (especially when it seems that the sea doesn't occupy most of hell and they don't need to worry about environmental issues since, well, hell is supposed to be torture).

 

[DarkLock92]

Honestly, the number of people doesn't say much about the exact size.

If we take the entire human population that has ever existed (which I think is also something like 100 billion), it wouldn't even occupy much of the Grand Canyon. And the current population of Earth doesn't occupy much of the planet, even disregarding the sea (considering the sea, it's very tiny how much we occupy).

So I think that even places smaller than Earth could accommodate all those beings (especially when it seems that the sea doesn't occupy most of hell and they don't need to worry about environmental issues since, well, hell is supposed to be torture).

Hell in the Hellaverse isn't supposed to be anything. With what we know so far, it was created by accident by Lucifer and Lilith.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Oh hey, this came around.
Well I put myself in the 5-B to Low 5-B crowd, however I want to note that Alastor should probably get a different value for him in general and Full Power.

Arguments for why Alastor's contribution/strength is at least x2 the proposed values:
Off season 1 we know that Husker sold his soul so Alastor maintains his power, so I think it's entirely fair to say Alastor's powers are what actively keep the former the power level he is. The idea that Alastor is equal multiple Overlord outputs even while weakened is supported by him taking the Vees in a 3v1 and holding his own even when it's a battle he actively wanted to lose, and the fact even when Vox got an insane power boost from 100% approval rating Alastor was still tearing him a new one and required Vox to use two super weapons (His pet and the canon) to finally beat them.
So I think saying Weakened Alastor > x2 the shittier Overlords value wise is fine
And then I feel for how much of a big deal Alastor made of Rosie giving him his full power back, to where he was willing to nuke everyone (Including Nifty, who is the only person we've seen Alastor sorta care to any degree about) I think another at least x2 on top is fine.

So for Low 5-B he'd be at least 3670.08 Exaton
And then for 5-B he'd be at least 485.68 Zetaton.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Oh hey, this came around.
Well I put myself in the 5-B to Low 5-B crowd, however I want to note that Alastor should probably get a different value for him in general and Full Power.

Arguments for why Alastor's contribution/strength is at least x2 the proposed values:
Off season 1 we know that Husker sold his soul so Alastor maintains his power, so I think it's entirely fair to say Alastor's powers are what actively keep the former the power level he is. The idea that Alastor is equal multiple Overlord outputs even while weakened is supported by him taking the Vees in a 3v1 and holding his own even when it's a battle he actively wanted to lose, and the fact even when Vox got an insane power boost from 100% approval rating Alastor was still tearing him a new one and required Vox to use two super weapons (His pet and the canon) to finally beat them.
So I think saying Weakened Alastor > x2 the shittier Overlords value wise is fine
And then I feel for how much of a big deal Alastor made of Rosie giving him his full power back, to where he was willing to nuke everyone (Including Nifty, who is the only person we've seen Alastor sorta care to any degree about) I think another at least x2 on top is fine.

So for Low 5-B he'd be at least 3670.08 Exaton
And then for 5-B he'd be at least 485.68 Zetaton.

And what about the argument that their power increased through singing?

 

[BoastJr]

Keep in kind that Vox also knows that Hell has a higher population then Heaven and was more confident in taking on Heaven via Numbers alone

He has had Decades to scout The Pride Ring and has a large influence over it (So him knowing about the population size has basis to it). In "Brighter" Song, he was a mastermind that orchestrated several well planned murders to kill higher ups to promote his rank

So Vox isn't really a Bad source of Intel

The only counterargument is from Season 1 where they say "Thousands die per Extermination" but that can be chalked up to an "expression" to signify large number of deaths

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Honestly, the number of people doesn't say much about the exact size.

If we take the entire human population that has ever existed (which I think is also something like 100 billion), it wouldn't even occupy much of the Grand Canyon. And the current population of Earth doesn't occupy much of the planet, even disregarding the sea (considering the sea, it's very tiny how much we occupy).

So I think that even places smaller than Earth could accommodate all those beings (especially when it seems that the sea doesn't occupy most of hell and they don't need to worry about environmental issues since, well, hell is supposed to be torture).

Brotski, humans live, not exist.

And we take Earth as standard assumption for planets, idk why you would assume otherwise without anything suggesting so.

 

[Tllmbrg]

And what about the argument that their power increased through singing?

There is literally nothing stating that, why would we assume a mechanic like that?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The only counterargument is from Season 1 where they say "Thousands die" but that can be chalked up to an "expression" to signify large number of deaths

Vox himself says "they killed thousands" in a propaganda claim but that is more Vivz being braindead than anything

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

There is literally nothing stating that, why would we assume a mechanic like that?

Lad. Buddy. Pal.

Underberg: But the point of the singing [in “Hear My Hope”] is that their singing serves a plot point, regardless of what words they're singing. I think it has those sections where the song functions more like other songs, in which there’s maybe an argument, kind of an internal dialogue. But the choral main sections in “Hear My Hope,” their voices are actually serving a purpose, a dramatic physical purpose.
Haft: Yeah, exactly. A physical and a mechanical purpose. “Hear My Hope” is the first song in the show that really explicitly taps into something that's alluded to throughout [the show], about music and power. This is something I could nerd about at length — a commonality between the Hellaverse and Lord of the Rings is that in the lore of Lord of the Rings, the world-building is built around this idea that reality was sung into existence. There are implications in [this song] that these characters' voices and these characters' music give them power. “Hear My Hope” is the first example we've seen explicitly of these people's power being manifested through song to achieve an end.

"The idea of music having power in Lord of the Rings… This is such a creator-driven show, and that's not something that's on their radar so much as that's something I privately nerd out about, because I'm one of those weird people who likes Lord of the Rings that much. But that was something I clocked in season 1, when there was that imagery of Lilith empowering Sinners — you see these musical notes streaming from her over the rest of Hell."

"The idea that music has power is very straightforward on an emotional level, and it's very fun to have a property that treats it not just as emotionally powerful, but as something that will affect the physical world."

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Oh hey, this came around.
Well I put myself in the 5-B to Low 5-B crowd, however I want to note that Alastor should probably get a different value for him in general and Full Power.

Arguments for why Alastor's contribution/strength is at least x2 the proposed values:
Off season 1 we know that Husker sold his soul so Alastor maintains his power, so I think it's entirely fair to say Alastor's powers are what actively keep the former the power level he is. The idea that Alastor is equal multiple Overlord outputs even while weakened is supported by him taking the Vees in a 3v1 and holding his own even when it's a battle he actively wanted to lose, and the fact even when Vox got an insane power boost from 100% approval rating Alastor was still tearing him a new one and required Vox to use two super weapons (His pet and the canon) to finally beat them.
So I think saying Weakened Alastor > x2 the shittier Overlords value wise is fine
And then I feel for how much of a big deal Alastor made of Rosie giving him his full power back, to where he was willing to nuke everyone (Including Nifty, who is the only person we've seen Alastor sorta care to any degree about) I think another at least x2 on top is fine.

So for Low 5-B he'd be at least 3670.08 Exaton
And then for 5-B he'd be at least 485.68 Zetaton.

Alastor glaze?

(You are my new favorite mod for glazing my boi fr)

 

[Mythic381]

snip

You should probably specify which value you agree more with I guess?

 

[Tllmbrg]

Lad. Buddy. Pal.

So the evidence are WoGs that have no actual showings in the series itself?
Yah I'm gonna pass on using those until the show has more concrete examples of it, especially since if busting into a song literally empowers you why the Hell is Vox not just blasting the air 24/7 with some remix?

 

[Tllmbrg]

You should probably specify which value you agree more with I guess?

Don't have a preference between the two.

 

[Mythic381]

Alastor glaze?

The Bill Cipher pfp starts to make more sense now...

So the evidence are WoGs that have no actual showings in the series itself?

Lilith did it.

Yah I'm gonna pass on using those until the show has more concrete examples of it, especially since if busting into a song literally empowers you why the Hell is Vox not just blasting the air 24/7 with some remix?

I'd like to think no one knew they were capable of doing that, as over the 10,000 years Hell has existed, only Lilith did it.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Brotski, humans live, not exist.

And we take Earth as standard assumption for planets, idk why you would assume otherwise without anything suggesting so.

Where does it say that hell is a planet?

So the evidence are WoGs that have no actual showings in the series itself?
Yah I'm gonna pass on using those until the show has more concrete examples of it, especially since if busting into a song literally empowers you why the Hell is Vox not just blasting the air 24/7 with some remix?

We literally use WOG on the verse.

Like, there are entire justifications that only use WOG as a font on the verse.

Furthermore, WOG can be used as long as it doesn't contradict the series, and this information doesn't contradict anything.