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Hero Killer - AP and LS Upgrade

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Engen Also has to be scaled to this feat due to it stating his gift proficiency is close to bishops.
Ihwa should be scaled to this as well, because she was able to fight Engen and inflict damage on him. Moreover, Engen was stronger than he used to be.
 
Ihwa should be scaled to this as well, because she was able to fight Engen and inflict damage on him. Moreover, Engen was stronger than he used to be.
She never damaged him, he even no sold her thunderous slash, she doesn't scale to him at all
 
He isn't damaged at all by the attack, not even his clothes
The only moment when she affects him at all is by using Hall of Astral Pain which is hax
Here, Ihwa was exhausted and had taken a lot of damage. Ihwa cannot be far below Engen. I will explain this now.

Ihwa cuts down the feminine creature created by Engen. She blocks Engen’s beams. By throwing numerous stakes around Ihwa, Engen causes an explosion, and Ihwa survives it. Ihwa then cuts through Engen’s stakes.

Engen’s power increased even further because he blocked the sun. And as you can see, Ihwa is able to contend with his power. Additionally, when Ihwa uses her lightning ability, her power and speed increase even more. Therefore, the calculation can be scaled to Ihwa as well.
 
Here, Ihwa was exhausted and had taken a lot of damage.
This same Ihwa could still tank a supposedly fully serious Pratãpana, which is Engen's trump card, that can equally clash against the Netherworld Scepter, that can easily pierce through his defenses and himself
Which is also inconsistent with the fact that a stronger Ihwa couldn't damage the Witch's dress at all, while both the Netherworld Scepter and Pratãpana can
The point is that Engen isn't fighting Ihwa for real, he is trying to recruit her, and is still "giving her a choice"
Ihwa cannot be far below Engen. I will explain this now.
Ihwa cuts down the feminine creature created by Engen. She blocks Engen’s beams. By throwing numerous stakes around Ihwa, Engen causes an explosion, and Ihwa survives it. Ihwa then cuts through Engen’s stakes.
It doesn't make sense for Ihwa to be elder level at all. She had to go thought 2 major power ups just to start feeling like an elder, one that allowed her to beat Immortal without even looking while before they were at least somewhat relative (Which also means Immortal would scale to elder lvl... somehow...), and even after that she still got one shot by an elder
And the other power up was the resonance between the wind demon slash and kho'temte which just by being close was much more destructive than normal, and only when she made the 2 touch she started feeling like an elder
The whole point of these scenes and the powerups she got make no sense at all if she was Elder lvl 40 chapters earlier, or if she can no diff elders by now
Engen’s power increased even further because he blocked the sun
"There is no difference between day and night for me anymore"
And as you can see, Ihwa is able to contend with his power
Based on your comment she shouldn't only scale to him but absolutely no diff him, mainly currently, which is completely inconsistent with pretty much everything we know about Elders
Additionally, when Ihwa uses her lightning ability, her power and speed increase even more.
The lightning abillity that she doesn't have in the key she fought Engen? And only gets much later on?
 
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When Ihwa encountered the Witch, he was already injured. He was not at full strength.
The point is that Engen isn't fighting Ihwa for real, he is trying to recruit her, and is still "giving her a choice"
That doesn't mean Engen wasn't serious. He used his powerful techniques on Ihwa. Ihwa was able to both withstand and block his attacks.
It doesn't make sense for Ihwa to be elder level at all. She had to go thought 2 major power ups just to start feeling like an elder, one that allowed her to beat Immortal without even looking while before they were at least somewhat relative (Which also means Immortal would scale to elder lvl... somehow...),
The reason she was able to defeat the Immortal in a single blow was because she had already dealt damage to the Immortal beforehand.
At the same time, she managed to injure him. Someone who is not at the Elder level would not be able to do that.
And the other power up was the resonance between the wind demon slash and kho'temte which just by being close was much more destructive than normal, and only when she made the 2 touch she started feeling like an elder
The whole point of these scenes and the powerups she got make no sense at all if she was Elder lvl 40 chapters earlier, or if she can no diff elders by now
It doesn’t change the fact that she is at the elder level.
Based on your comment she shouldn't only scale to him but absolutely no diff him, mainly currently, which is completely inconsistent with pretty much everything we know about Elders
It is not inconsistent.
The lightning abillity that she doesn't have in the key she fought Engen? And only gets much later on?
Secondly.
 
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When Ihwa encountered the Witch, he was already injured. He was not at full strength.
So you simply ignored the part that the same injuried Ihwa that couldn't do any damage to Engen using the thunderous slash was able to tank Pratãpana that scales much above Engen normal attacks?
And you're acting like Ihwa is made out of paper or something, that will drop several levels in power by getting damaged, while she is supposed to have one of the best endurace in the verse
That doesn't mean Engen wasn't serious.
It does means that he isn't trying to kill her, so he wouldn't use enogh power to kill her
The reason she was able to defeat the Immortal in a single blow was because she had already dealt damage to the Immortal beforehand.
Immortal's gift is healing, that is literally his whole thing, he was healed on the scene she no diffed him
Also, are you seriously arguing Ihwa didn't get any amp from putting an restriction on herself as heavy as limitting all her current and future gifts to one time use?
She isn't damaging Seven at all, the sword with a completly unknown ability did , and nothing suggests she scales to that abillity
It was also an off guard attack which cannonically lower gift users durability
Also, this Ihwa is more damaged than the one who could do nothing against the witch's clothes, which supposedly is enogh to put her out of the elder lvl
It doesn’t change the fact that she is at the elder level.
It does, since you’re arguing that she reached Elder level long before that scene, whose whole purpose is to show that she attained Elder level
It is not inconsistent.
So let me get this straight, you're saying that Ihwa one shotting elder lvl people isn't inconsistent at all?
 
So you simply ignored the part that the same injuried Ihwa that couldn't do any damage to Engen using the thunderous slash was able to tank Pratãpana that scales much above Engen normal attacks?
And you're acting like Ihwa is made out of paper or something, that will drop several levels in power by getting damaged, while she is supposed to have one of the best endurace in the verse
What are you talking about? When Ihwa fought Engen, she wasn’t that badly injured. When she encountered the Witch, there was a hole in her abdomen.

Also, no. That’s not how things work. Having good durability doesn’t mean being at full power. Because she was injured, she couldn’t use her full strength. Stop defending this. you’re talking irrationally.
It does means that he isn't trying to kill her, so he wouldn't use enogh power to kill her
Not all Elder characters are equal in strength. One Elder can be several times stronger than another. The fact that Ihwa couldn’t damage Engen but was able to damage Seven means that Engen is stronger than Seven. And what I’m saying is that since Ihwa was able to injure an Elder, she shouldn’t be far below that level. This is not something a Low 7-B character could do. Also, Ihwa has the power of an Elder. that is, she possesses a lightning ability. Therefore, I’m saying that with her lightning ability, she should be Low 6-B.
Immortal's gift is healing, that is literally his whole thing, he was healed on the scene she no diffed him
Also, are you seriously arguing Ihwa didn't get any amp from putting an restriction on herself as heavy as limitting all her current and future gifts to one time use?
Immortal isn’t even on the same level as Seven or Ihwa. Just because he’s as fast as Ihwa doesn’t mean he’s as strong as her. He was never able to injure Ihwa. But Ihwa stabbed him with her sword. Ihwa split him in two without any difficulty. I hope you understand.
She isn't damaging Seven at all, the sword with a completly unknown ability did , and nothing suggests she scales to that abillity
What are you talking about? Ihwa injures him by manipulating blood. That means she was able to hurt him using her own ability.
It was also an off guard attack which cannonically lower gift users durability
That’s not how things work. It doesn’t matter whether the attack was unexpected. Since she managed to injure an Elder-level character, she herself is also at the Elder level.

Also, this Ihwa is more damaged than the one who could do nothing against the witch's clothes, which supposedly is enogh to put her out of the elder lvl
This means that Engen and the Witch are stronger than Seven.
It does, since you’re arguing that she reached Elder level long before that scene, whose whole purpose is to show that she attained Elder level
A Low 7-B character cannot damage a Low 6-B character. It’s that simple.
So let me get this straight, you're saying that Ihwa one shotting elder lvl people isn't inconsistent at all?
Immortal is not at the Elder level in terms of strength. High-tier characters are only those who are Elders.
 
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What are you talking about? When Ihwa fought Engen, she wasn’t that badly injured. When she encountered the Witch, there was a hole in her abdomen.
She wasn't badly injuried? First, you're the one who started with that argument to justify why her thunderous slash didn't damaged him at all, second, this is her how she was after the fight
Either way, since you're saying now that she wasn't badly injuried against Engen, and that she is on the same level as him, them why her thunderous slash couldn't do any damage to him?
Also, no. That’s not how things work. Having good durability doesn’t mean being at full power. Because she was injured, she couldn’t use her full strength. Stop defending this. you’re talking irrationally.
Hero Killer has a UES, that is the entire reaosn why Bishop's feat would even scale to anybody to begin with, and you're also the one who started with the AP = dura to justify Ihwa scaling to Engen
Not all Elder characters are equal in strength. One Elder can be several times stronger than another.
Not really, but let's say I agree
The fact that Ihwa couldn’t damage Engen but was able to damage Seven means that Engen is stronger than Seven.
Ok, so since Ihwa scales to Engen (but can't damage him at all), this would also means that Ihwa > Seven right? So why she was running away from, and got one shot by Seven? Doesn't she scale to Engen who is > Seven?
And what I’m saying is that since Ihwa was able to injure an Elder, she shouldn’t be far below that level.
Seven was off guard, your state of mind affects your durabillity in HKverse
This is not something a Low 7-B character could do.
Since you're arguing that Elders can vary massively in power, why damaging Seven would make her scale to the L6B calc? What proof do you have that she scales to Bishop? Actually, what proof do you have that Engen scales to Bishop to begin with?
Also, Ihwa has the power of an Elder. that is, she possesses a lightning ability.
No? An much stronger Ihwa felt like an Elder, this doesn't means she scales to them directly, either way, this happens only in the current arc, after she got a major power up, and we shouldn't index it until the arc is finished
Therefore, I’m saying that with her lightning ability, she should be Low 6-B.
You was arguing Metallica Ihwa should scale to Engen, are you dropping this argument?
Immortal isn’t even on the same level as Seven or Ihwa. Just because he’s as fast as Ihwa doesn’t mean he’s as strong as her
It's true that he isn't on the same lvl as Seven, he got no diffed by and Ihwa who got one shot by Seven after all, but he does scale to Ihwa, as I literally shown they clashing and blocking each others attacks, here are the scans again if you didn't border into opening it the first time
He was never able to injure Ihwa.
Yes, because he never landed any hits one her
Different from Ihwa vs Engen, which you're arguing scale to each other, even thorugh he no sold an attack from her
But Ihwa stabbed him with her sword. Ihwa split him in two without any difficulty. I hope you understand.
What? Stabbing someone with a sword doesn't make you stronger than them, swords are made for cutting people on your lvl, and she split him in 2 using the thunderous slash, which can one shot people who can no sell attacks from Ihwa, so yeah, of course she would be able to cut him in 2
What are you talking about? Ihwa injures him by manipulating blood.
The blood manipulation that she doesn't have? Did you forget how Ihwa's gift work?
That’s not how things work. It doesn’t matter whether the attack was unexpected
Literally not true as I've already proved in this comment
Also I'm pretty sure the wiki has rules against scaling people to off guard attacks, but I'm not too sure about that
Since she managed to injure an Elder-level character, she herself is also at the Elder level.
Ok, let's completly ignore all the other problems with your argument, since yourself said, and I quote "Not all Elder characters are equal in strength. One Elder can be several times stronger than another." Why would Seven scale to Bishop?
Immortal is not at the Elder level in terms of strength. High-tier characters are only those who are Elders.
He was able to clash with and block attacks from someone you're arguing is an Elder, so why he wouldn't scale to Elder lvl?
 
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She wasn't badly injuried? First, you're the one who started with that argument to justify why her thunderous slash didn't damaged him at all, second, this is her how she was after the fight
Either way, since you're saying now that she wasn't badly injuried against Engen, and that she is on the same level as him, them why her thunderous slash couldn't do any damage to him?
Are you reading my comments? I’m saying that Ihwa isn’t far below Engen. In the link you sent, the reason Ihwa was injured that badly is that Engen used his Pratapana ability. Because after that, Ihwa couldn’t even move.
Hero Killer has a UES, that is the entire reaosn why Bishop's feat would even scale to anybody to begin with, and you're also the one who started with the AP = dura to justify Ihwa scaling to Engen
By durability, I mean that she is strong enough to withstand Engen’s attacks. Here, Ihwa was injured. there was a hole in her abdomen. This also reduces her AP.
Ok, so since Ihwa scales to Engen (but can't damage him at all), this would also means that Ihwa > Seven right? So why she was running away from, and got one shot by Seven? Doesn't she scale to Engen who is > Seven?
If you’re saying that Ihwa is on the same power level as Engen, then why are you arguing that the Low 6-B calculation shouldn’t be scaled?

There is no evidence that Seven’s attack was able to damage Ihwa. And Ihwa was most likely holding back, because the body in front of her belonged to her sister. When Ihwa got serious, she was able to hurt Seven. This also means that Ihwa was restraining herself.
This has nothing to do with being caught off guard. Seven’s mental state was quite good. she looked perfectly happy and calm.
Since you're arguing that Elders can vary massively in power, why damaging Seven would make her scale to the L6B calc? What proof do you have that she scales to Bishop? Actually, what proof do you have that Engen scales to Bishop to begin with?
Engen was able to damage the Witch’s clothing. But can Bishop do that? There is no evidence at all. Therefore, I think he should be at least as strong as Bishop.
No? An much stronger Ihwa felt like an Elder, this doesn't means she scales to them directly, either way, this happens only in the current arc, after she got a major power up, and we shouldn't index it until the arc is finished
Because he was able to harm an Elder, he himself is also at the Elder level. Accept this.
You was arguing Metallica Ihwa should scale to Engen, are you dropping this argument?
I’m not saying Ihwa is as strong as Engen. I’m saying she isn’t far below Engen. at the very least, she’s comparable to Bishop.
It's true that he isn't on the same lvl as Seven, he got no diffed by and Ihwa who got one shot by Seven after all, but he does scale to Ihwa, as I literally shown they clashing and blocking each others attacks, here are the scans again if you didn't border into opening it the first time
Even though it looked like this at first, later Ihwa overwhelmed him with her speed and cut him in two. This means that thanks to her Accelerated Development hax, Ihwa’s speed and power increased. In situations like this, Accelerated Development hax is usually added.
Yes, because he never landed any hits one her
Different from Ihwa vs Engen, which you're arguing scale to each other, even thorugh he no sold an attack from her
Ihwa was able to withstand Engen’s techniques. Here, Immortal couldn’t endure Ihwa’s attack. Therefore, Ihwa split Immortal in two without any difficulty.
What? Stabbing someone with a sword doesn't make you stronger than them, swords are made for cutting people on your lvl, and she split him in 2 using the thunderous slash, which can one shot people who can no sell attacks from Ihwa, so yeah, of course she would be able to cut him in 2
Ihwa overwhelmed Immortal with her speed, surpassed his durability, and split him in two. Thanks to her Accelerated Development hax, her speed and power increased, so she is definitely superior to Immortal.
The blood manipulation that she doesn't have? Did you forget how Ihwa's gift work?
He literally manipulates blood. Go read the chapter. If you don’t think he manipulates blood, then explain how he moved his sword.
Literally not true as I've already proved in this comment
Also I'm pretty sure the wiki has rules against scaling people to off guard attacks, but I'm not too sure about that
I don’t think there’s such a rule. Also, your evidence is wrong.
Ok, let's completly ignore all the other problems with your argument, since yourself said, and I quote "Not all Elder characters are equal in strength. One Elder can be several times stronger than another." Why would Seven scale to Bishop?
Not all Elder characters are equal in terms of power. But there isn’t a huge difference between Low 7-B and Low 6-B. Since both are Elders, I think they are comparable.
He was able to clash with and block attacks from someone you're arguing is an Elder, so why he wouldn't scale to Elder lvl?
Even if we accept that he is at the Elder level, Ihwa overwhelmed an Elder-level character with her speed and split him in two. That would be another reason for a Low 6-B scaling.
 
I’m saying that Ihwa isn’t far below Engen.
Ok, so why her thunderous slash, a technique that can one shot people on her lvl, did no damage to Engen at all? Isn't she supposed to be close to him in strengh?
By durability, I mean that she is strong enough to withstand Engen’s attacks.
She was able to winsthand his attacks because he was holding back, which is shown by the fact that he is not trying to kill her, and that when she tries to attack him she does no damage at all
Again, you're trying to argue that Ihwa scales to Engen even though her attacks explicitly and on screen can't do any damage to him at all, in any capability
If you’re saying that Ihwa is on the same power level as Engen, then why are you arguing that the Low 6-B calculation shouldn’t be scaled?
I'm not saying that, you're, and I followed the assumption to show that this logic doesn't make sense
There is no evidence that Seven’s attack was able to damage Ihwa
Are you fr? She straight up can't move at all after getting hit one time. Even after seeing her power post restrictionSeven still considers insutating and arrogant the fact that Ihwa didn't run away
And Ihwa was most likely holding back, because the body in front of her belonged to her sister
Straight up refuted by direct on screen statements
When Ihwa got serious, she was able to hurt Seven.
Can you show that supposed evidence of Ihwa damaging Seven you're talking about? Not the blood hand that appears out of nowhere
This has nothing to do with being caught off guard. Seven’s mental state was quite good. she looked perfectly happy and calm.
The point is that defender wasn't focused which is why her defense was lowered, which is simillar of what happen to Seven, she wasn't focused, and was damaged by something she wouldn't be damaged normally
Engen was able to damage the Witch’s clothing. But can Bishop do that? There is no evidence at all. Therefore, I think he should be at least as strong as Bishop.
This is a nothing argument, probably a Argument from ignorance + Burden of proof fallacy too, you can't prove Engen is as strong as Bishop based on something he didn't did, he never tried to attack the witch
Because he was able to harm an Elder, he himself is also at the Elder level. Accept this.
No proof she is the one who damaged Seven + Seven was off guard + you still didn't proved that Seven even scales to Bishop
I’m not saying Ihwa is as strong as Engen. I’m saying she isn’t far below Engen. at the very least, she’s comparable to Bishop.
She is close to him in power but can't do any damage to him at all even while using her strongest technique (at the time)? Is that what you're saying? Also, why being not far below Engen would make her comparable to Bishop?
Even though it looked like this at first, later Ihwa overwhelmed him with her speed and cut him in two.
As I've said before she used Thunderous slash, a technique that abandon everything in favor of speed and has consistently shown to outspeed and one shot people on the user's lvl
This means that thanks to her Accelerated Development hax, Ihwa’s speed and power increased. In situations like this, Accelerated Development hax is usually added.
Both the scanes I shown of them clashing and blocking eachother attacks happened after she cut him in 2, so she didn't "evolved enoght cut him in 2"
Also just to know your make sure I understant your argument, you said that Ihwa was close in strenght to Engen, them she fights Immortal, who she is relative initally, and them evolves enogh mid fight to blitz and one shot him, them she goes to fight Seven, and gets one shot even after getting a power up, and you're arguing that Engen > Seven, that was your argument? Agian, just to make sure
He literally manipulates blood. Go read the chapter. If you don’t think he manipulates blood, then explain how he moved his sword.
The sword is a shard with a unknown abillity, why you would assume Ihwa gained a blood manip abillity out of nowhere that she never uses again at any point, instead of assuming this abillity comes from the shard that has a unknown, abillity? Mainly considering that the abillity of the shard is heavily hinted to be blood related
Worse case scenario, it was Yushin who helped Ihwa from somewhere in the battlefied, since we know for a fact that he does have blood manip
I don’t think there’s such a rule. Also, your evidence is wrong.
I tried searching it and in fact the rule doesn't exist, but the argumet is correct
Not all Elder characters are equal in terms of power. But there isn’t a huge difference between Low 7-B and Low 6-B. Since both are Elders, I think they are comparable.
You literally said with all words "Not all Elder characters are equal in strength. One Elder can be several times stronger than another."
Either way, this wouldn't prove how Ihwa was comparable to an Elder before, and got one shot by another later, which is your argument
Even if we accept that he is at the Elder level, Ihwa overwhelmed an Elder-level character with her speed and split him in two. That would be another reason for a Low 6-B scaling.
The point isn't that you need to accept he is Elder level, your point is already claming that, since he directly scales to the version of Ihwa you're saying is close in power to Engen, and this is stupid, since Ihwa one shot him and still got one shot by another Elder, and Elders should be close in strengh
 
It’s pretty obvious that this version of ihwa isn’t close to elder level.
The only time you can firmly put ihwa in elder level is when she fought saint light using Narkles stolen gift, lightning empress. But then again, that was only a dream. “]
Then you have vague statements like these in which it’s possible to assume she’s close to the elders seeing the parallel with Victoria who’s also an elder, but that version of Ihwa isn’t the same version that fought Engen.

I also wanna make this clear, all elders are relative. Are some elders stronger than the others? Yes. That doesn’t mean they aren’t relative. This is implied by prim. Prim admits inferiority to Victoria but says the power gap between her and the other elders present including herself is very tiny.


Also 7 is stronger than Engen. It’s proven when 7 beat a stronger ihwa with less difficulty than Engen did to a weaker ihwa.

This key of ihwa really isn’t that close to elders. This version of ihwa isn’t even stronger than non elders. To name a few:. Ijincheon, Narkle, Yeon, Nanzu, islotta, Sinu, Victoria’s knight galeramdt, Hekate, etc

I agree with low 6-B Victoria, Bishop and Engen, not this version of Ihwa though. You’d need to update her profile to the latest arc for that.
 
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I also wanna make this clear, all elders are relative. Are some elders stronger than the others? Yes. That doesn’t mean they aren’t relative. This is implied by prim. Prim admits inferiority to Victoria but says the power gap between her and the other elders present including herself is very tiny.
If the difference between Seven and the other Elder characters is very small, then since Ihwa was able to damage Seven, the Low 6-B calculation should also be applied to her
 
Ok, so why her thunderous slash, a technique that can one shot people on her lvl, did no damage to Engen at all? Isn't she supposed to be close to him in strengh?

She was able to winsthand his attacks because he was holding back, which is shown by the fact that he is not trying to kill her, and that when she tries to attack him she does no damage at all
Again, you're trying to argue that Ihwa scales to Engen even though her attacks explicitly and on screen can't do any damage to him at all, in any capability

I'm not saying that, you're, and I followed the assumption to show that this logic doesn't make sense

Are you fr? She straight up can't move at all after getting hit one time. Even after seeing her power post restrictionSeven still considers insutating and arrogant the fact that Ihwa didn't run away

Straight up refuted by direct on screen statements

Can you show that supposed evidence of Ihwa damaging Seven you're talking about? Not the blood hand that appears out of nowhere

The point is that defender wasn't focused which is why her defense was lowered, which is simillar of what happen to Seven, she wasn't focused, and was damaged by something she wouldn't be damaged normally

This is a nothing argument, probably a Argument from ignorance + Burden of proof fallacy too, you can't prove Engen is as strong as Bishop based on something he didn't did, he never tried to attack the witch

No proof she is the one who damaged Seven + Seven was off guard + you still didn't proved that Seven even scales to Bishop

She is close to him in power but can't do any damage to him at all even while using her strongest technique (at the time)? Is that what you're saying? Also, why being not far below Engen would make her comparable to Bishop?

As I've said before she used Thunderous slash, a technique that abandon everything in favor of speed and has consistently shown to outspeed and one shot people on the user's lvl

Both the scanes I shown of them clashing and blocking eachother attacks happened after she cut him in 2, so she didn't "evolved enoght cut him in 2"
Also just to know your make sure I understant your argument, you said that Ihwa was close in strenght to Engen, them she fights Immortal, who she is relative initally, and them evolves enogh mid fight to blitz and one shot him, them she goes to fight Seven, and gets one shot even after getting a power up, and you're arguing that Engen > Seven, that was your argument? Agian, just to make sure

The sword is a shard with a unknown abillity, why you would assume Ihwa gained a blood manip abillity out of nowhere that she never uses again at any point, instead of assuming this abillity comes from the shard that has a unknown, abillity? Mainly considering that the abillity of the shard is heavily hinted to be blood related
Worse case scenario, it was Yushin who helped Ihwa from somewhere in the battlefied, since we know for a fact that he does have blood manip

I tried searching it and in fact the rule doesn't exist, but the argumet is correct

You literally said with all words "Not all Elder characters are equal in strength. One Elder can be several times stronger than another."
Either way, this wouldn't prove how Ihwa was comparable to an Elder before, and got one shot by another later, which is your argument

The point isn't that you need to accept he is Elder level, your point is already claming that, since he directly scales to the version of Ihwa you're saying is close in power to Engen, and this is stupid, since Ihwa one shot him and still got one shot by another Elder, and Elders should be close in strengh
Why are you using the same arguments? I’ve already responded to all of them. If you don’t have a different argument, I’ll ignore you.
 
If the difference between Seven and the other Elder characters is very small, then since Ihwa was able to damage Seven, the Low 6-B calculation should also be applied to her
Thats ijincheons shard that was given to Ihwa. Seven was caught off guard when whispering to Ihwa. The only time seven was ever hurt was when majesty used her spear which scales above her and Ihwa.
 
Why are you using the same arguments? I’ve already responded to all of them. If you don’t have a different argument, I’ll ignore you.
about half the things you said are easily proved wrong by direct panels (as I showed) and the other half is proved wrong by your own arguments contradicting each other, you refuted nothing of what I said
Either way, 2 normal members discussing won't get this accepted, we have to wait for a mod to appear and see what he has to say
 
about half the things you said are easily proved wrong by direct panels (as I showed) and the other half is proved wrong by your own arguments contradicting each other, you refuted nothing of what I said
Either way, 2 normal members discussing won't get this accepted, we have to wait for a mod to appear and see what he has to say
All you’re doing is repeating arguments that I’ve already refuted and changing the subject.
 
Thats ijincheons shard that was given to Ihwa. Seven was caught off guard when whispering to Ihwa. The only time seven was ever hurt was when majesty used her spear which scales above her and Ihwa.
Being caught off guard does not reduce durability. That’s not how it works.
 
Since I'm unfamiliar with the verse, I'll have to depend on the supporters for context and I see that there was some debate. Have you guys settled on a conclusion?
 
Since I'm unfamiliar with the verse, I'll have to depend on the supporters for context and I see that there was some debate. Have you guys settled on a conclusion?
I agree that Ihwa is not at this level for now. That’s why I crossed it out.

At the moment, the characters that should be scaled are Victoria, Bishop, and Engen.
 
Ihwa didn’t stab 7 with her power, It’s hax. Ijincheon gave Ihwa the sword and later said put some blood on the blade. Its essentially a shard that becomes more potent off blood. This is proven when she accidentally did after getting low diffed by seven. The blood dropped on said blade which by default did its job as a shard
The only disagreement is whatever or not Ihwa should scale to the feat
Viott thinks she should scale because she fought against a Engen (who scales to the feat)
Ihwa cuts down the feminine creature created by Engen. She blocks Engen’s beams. By throwing numerous stakes around Ihwa, Engen causes an explosion, and Ihwa survives it. Ihwa then cuts through Engen’s stakes.
The problem is that Engen was trying to recruit her and even through he said he would kill her if she refused, after winning the fight he doesn't do that, so it was most likely a bluff
Ihwa directly scaling to that Engen is also really inconsistent with a lot of things
First, Ihwa used her strongest move against Engen, which normally can easily cut through comparable opponents, yet does no damage at all
Second, if you assume he was really going all out, this means that Ihwa tanked Pratâpana at full power, which is Engen's strongest move, that can equally clash with another attack that can easily piecer throught Engen himself and his defenses and both can damage the Witch's clothes, which can no sell Engen's normal attacks, yet she is shown strugling with his normal attacks
Third, after getting a major buff to the point of no diffing someone who was relative to her, she still got one shot by Seven who is relative to Engen
Fourth, narratively, she has to get another major power up to become Elder lvl, which is the lvl that scales to the feat
There are a few other minor points, but I think this is enogh to shown that she shouldn't scale to Engen

Viott also says she should be scales to Seven (who she got one shot by, like I already showed) because "she maneged to injure him"
At the same time, she managed to injure him. Someone who is not at the Elder level would not be able to do that.
The problem is that the attack is off guard and mostly likely doesn't come from Ihwa directly, she doesn't have blood manipulation, so she can't be the one who did the feat, the sword she is using is a shard (a category of weapons that have special abilities in verse) and although we don't know what it's abillity is exactly, we know it is blood related, as blazingfire pointed out
Ihwa didn’t stab 7 with her power, It’s hax. Ijincheon gave Ihwa the sword and later said put some blood on the blade. Its essentially a shard that becomes more potent off blood. This is proven when she accidentally did after getting low diffed by seven. The blood dropped on said blade which by default did its job as a shard
You could say Ihwa should scale to Elder lvl by using the sword, but the problem is that it's heavily implied to be one time use, this is the first and last time the sword does something like that, and Ijincheon (the original wielder of the sword) says that the sword already fulfilled it's purpose against Seven (Seven has many names because they can change bodies, kind of like Kenjaku from JJK, if you know about him. Ismiral is one of those names) and gives Ihwa a new one
So basically, Ihwa could scale to that, but only with that one moment when the sword can control itself to attack, and even then, it's dubious since Seven was off guard

You could also argue that Yushin was the one who did the feat, since he possesses blood manipulation, is Ihwa’s mentor, would defend her, and was present somewhere on the battlefield at the time. Given that he is Elder level, this wouldn’t create any inconsistence, but I would say this interpretation is less likely than the first
 
I agree that Ihwa is not at this level for now. That’s why I crossed it out.

At the moment, the characters that should be scaled are Victoria, Bishop, and Engen.
Sidenote, why wasn’t the calc that got Engen and bishop to Mountain level+ applied to Ihwa? Even though ihwa’s profile isn’t updated to the current arc, this profile version of ihwa is still stronger than the version of engen that fought bishop
 
Sidenote, why wasn’t the calc that got Engen and bishop to Mountain level+ applied to Ihwa? Even though ihwa’s profile isn’t updated to the current arc, this profile version of ihwa is still stronger than the version of engen that fought bishop
For this, another CRT must be opened.
 
Do you agree?
Yeah. Like others said, the calc portion is cut and dry so really the question is scaling. The scaling atm looks straightforward so you can put me in the agree list 👍
 
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since idk about the verse, If the verse supporters already sorted out the scaling, then i'm fine with the thread
 
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