Undertale and Deltarune are getting a buff

[Oikarian]

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I warn you, if anyone wants supporting evidence, please contact the source. Read the text on the Android version, as the PC version scatters the text.


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Sans is actually strong

vsbattles.fandom.com

1. The first thing I would like to say is to let Sans be a "strong monster in the dungeon" Sans has really terrible stats but his abilities and hax say otherwise he deserves to be strong among monsters.

2. Karma change not only increases damage inflicted, but also punishes the enemy and spreads through the veins, causing disgust, fear, and a panic reaction in the internal organs. This explains why Flowey felt uncomfortable. Karma punishes bad deeds. Also, the poison of karma closes regeneration and ignores invulnerability.

3. Manipulation of space and time: He can expand and contract space as he did in his room and in battle, and he can also create portals since his room is unusual, stop time as he showed in Grillby, and have ready-made attacks in battle.

4. Manipulation gravity: He has telekinesis, but also changes the position of gravity, which he demonstrates well in battle.

5. Sans is also able to attack the game's inventory, i.e. the buttons, and can change any font. Moreover, he can see Frisk's statistics, so he can know how many lv we have.

6. Debunking: Many people think that the hacker's ending breaks the 4th wall, but they don't consider that Sans's words could have been spoken by Toby Fox. Yes, it was Sans who spoke, but Toby Fox delivers this dialogue. Also, for them, the evidence is dodging and attacks to button, but these are Sans' abilities, otherwise how can Asgore break the button but not break the 4th wall?


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Papyrus is actually strong

vsbattles.fandom.com

1. Papyrus should be the strongest monster in the dungeon simply because his strength is recognized by Undyne and even surprisingly Flowey, I think he deserves to be a strong monster in Undertale.

2. Papyrus's intelligence should be equal to Sans's, he's quite smart in that regard, sometimes it's worth looking at his other side.

3. Gravity manipulation: Gravity distortion, gravity manipulation, weight alteration that allows Frisk to become heavy or light, telekinesis, and levitation.

4. Magic healing: Papyrus healed Frisk after the battle, her health reserve is back to 20 without eating.

5. Magic pencil: The secret boss has a pencil and Papyrus is skilled in drawer.

6. Radar: Thanks to this, he knows where Toby Fox is and is able to sense his presence.


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Undertale Cosmology - scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

1. Maybe we should think about a new level of powers monsters and people in Undertale get Low 1-C: Low Complex Multiverse level yes it sounds crazy but it's worth getting used to if you know how the power of the soul works.

2. Immunity and resistance: Radiation is a known fact, but it also gets a vitamin that many forget to add. Resistance to poison because buttercup flowers are dangerous and Iris is also dangerous but less so.

3. Unusual regeneration: Any food is a tool for regeneration for Frisk, be it stone or snow, but she just needs to eat sand and her HP will be restored.

4. Abilities and hax: All monsters and people get the ability to "reset" and even manipulate reality and control the world, but you will have to read the source to understand the power of souls.

Cosmology: I think Undertale deserves to be Low 1-C. The multiverse (undertale) is 5D and its universes are 4D (timelines) according to MWI theories.


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Undertale and Deltarune have the same power level

vsbattles.fandom.com

1. Some may disagree with Low 1-C, but I would like a Deltarun character to get every 8-C since Sans is a Deltarun character, he has 1 HP, 1 def, which means Deltarun characters have the same durability as Sans and can withstand an MTT brand furnace explosion.

 

[Axorandom0]

1. Having hax and powers does not inherently boost your strength. Sans is not above Undyne (the lowest an Undyne check stat ever was is her DEF during the main Undyne fight, which is still 19 over any of Sans’ check stats).

2.1. Papyrus is strong, yes. Undyne calls him “pretty freaking tough” and his stats are currently used to help set a benchmark for monsters who are “weak” and those who are strong (well, technically that’s because Aaron and Woshua, but Papyrus helps cement how strong Aaron is). He is not, however, stronger than monsters like Asgore or whatever. He has an attack and defense of 20 while the strongest monsters can have 4x that.

2.2. Papyrus probably didn’t look into the games code to figure out who Happstablook was, he probably just… knew it. He’s a pretty sociable guy ngl. The annoying dog also isn’t Papyrus’ pet, that’s just headcanon. Papyrus also didn’t survive when you kill him, people mention him dying!!! Undyne mentions it and Sans calls you a dirty brother killer and he wouldn’t if there was no brother that was killed. Honestly a lot of the Papyrus blog is just headcanon, like the “magic pencil” part. He says he painted on a rock formation, not that he stole So Sorry’s pencil.

3. I’m not gonna talk about Low 1-C cosmology that much but when you say “Maybe we should think about a new level of powers monsters and people in Undertale get Low 1-C”, how many people do you mean? Because this makes it sound like a lot more than just the top tiers (Peak Determination Frisk, Asriel, Chara, and Player).

4. Your calculations aren’t accepted (though we do have accepted ones on this wiki iirc), Dark World stats aren’t currently accepted as scaling to a Lightner’s light world form, and that’s still just a theory. A probable one imo, but still just a theory.

Lastly a fair few abilities you proposed are already ones we have listed on the wiki :/

 

[Monsters_fight]

Absolute Skibdi

 

[Mommyleona]

skimming through this was like:
uh huh uh huh i guess- LOW 1-C IMMEASURABLE SPEED???

 

[AyOgUyS]

1. The first thing I would like to say is to let Sans be a "strong monster in the dungeon" Sans has really terrible stats but his abilities and hax say otherwise he deserves to be strong among monsters.

2. Karma change not only increases damage inflicted, but also punishes the enemy and spreads through the veins, causing disgust, fear, and a panic reaction in the internal organs. This explains why Flowey felt uncomfortable. Karma punishes bad deeds. Also, the poison of karma closes regeneration and ignores invulnerability.

Hax =/= Stats, Sans is canonically physically fodder and has less AP and dura than a FROGGIT BTW

3. Manipulation of space and time: He can expand and contract space as he did in his room and in battle, and he can also create portals since his room is unusual, stop time as he showed in Grillby, and have ready-made attacks in battle.

idk about this

4. Manipulation gravity: He has telekinesis, but also changes the position of gravity, which he demonstrates well in battle.

5. Sans is also able to attack the game's inventory, i.e. the buttons, and can change any font. Moreover, he can see Frisk's statistics, so he can know how many lv we have.

I mean ok but this is already on his profile

6. Debunking: Many people think that the hacker's ending breaks the 4th wall, but they don't consider that Sans's words could have been spoken by Toby Fox. Yes, it was Sans who spoke, but Toby Fox delivers this dialogue. Also, for them, the evidence is dodging and attacks to button, but these are Sans' abilities, otherwise how can Asgore break the button but not break the 4th wall?

I don't know what this is supposed to mean

1. Papyrus should be the strongest monster in the dungeon simply because his strength is recognized by Undyne and even surprisingly Flowey, I think he deserves to be a strong monster in Undertale.

2. Papyrus's intelligence should be equal to Sans's, he's quite smart in that regard, sometimes it's worth looking at his other side.

Pure headcanon also papyrus has far less impressive feats than other monsters like undone and asgore

1. Maybe we should think about a new level of powers monsters and people in Undertale get Low 1-C: Low Complex Multiverse level yes it sounds crazy but it's worth getting used to if you know how the power of the soul works.

2. Immunity and resistance: Radiation is a known fact, but it also gets a vitamin that many forget to add. Resistance to poison because buttercup flowers are dangerous and Iris is also dangerous but less so.

3. Unusual regeneration: Any food is a tool for regeneration for Frisk, be it stone or snow, but she just needs to eat sand and her HP will be restored.

4. Abilities and hax: All monsters and people get the ability to "reset" and even manipulate reality and control the world, but you will have to read the source to understand the power of souls.

Cosmology: I think Undertale deserves to be Low 1-C. The multiverse (undertale) is 5D and its universes are 4D (timelines) according to MWI theories.

I read the blog and absolutely nothing suggests 5-D

 

[AyOgUyS]

3. Unusual regeneration: Any food is a tool for regeneration for Frisk, be it stone or snow, but she just needs to eat sand and her HP will be restored.

Frisk uses They/Them pronouns btw (no its not up to interpretation)

 

[Oikarian]

Hax =/= Stats, Sans is canonically physically fodder and has less AP and dura than a FROGGIT BTW

his stats are terrible but i'm talking about his abilities they are not included in his ap, dc but perfect for the ability to nullify his abilities he is quite confident in winning against pacifist frisk but not confident in winning against genocidal frisk so you didn't read it completely. Yes, I'm talking about his spatial and temporal abilities, his ability to dodge attacks, which he ignores the rules of the game and attacks with buttons, something similar to Asgore, but he breaks, and Sans's attacks do something different. Sans has good abilities, he can even be above the genocidal Frisk, since the character doesn't even try to fight.

idk about this

I mean ok but this is already on his profile

I don't know what this is supposed to mean

This is in the fandom, but it was introduced as breaking the 4th wall, but this is Sans' ability. All of Sans' abilities are at a level above everyone else. He has incredible abilities, so Flowey can't reset him in any way. But at the same time, Sans doesn't have good stats. He's a "glass" character, something like fragile but strong.

Pure headcanon also papyrus has far less impressive feats than other monsters like undone and asgore

His achievements should surpass Undyne's, but it's difficult with Asgore, although this can be used as Flowey grabbed Papyrus twice as hard as the others, because he literally destroyed everyone, but he fears Papyrus as much as Sans. And the boatman admits that it's better to avoid those from another world. In some ways, it's hard to give Papyrus a higher ranking than Asgore, but in other respects, it's sometimes pointed out that he's insanely strong.

I read the blog and absolutely nothing suggests 5-D

Yes, this is exactly the case, that no one knows how MWI works. One of the problems is when 2-A is without MWI theories, but 1-C must be present. MWI theory is necessary since the interpretation creates a multiple layer of 3 space and 1 time, and the multiverse must support this structure and add 1 structure to space, resulting in 5D.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Noticing a ton of stuff either needs work or is already on the profile

won't comment on the former, but I suggest looking at the UT profiles and some of the CRTs before making stuff because things like UT timelines not being mountain-sized or whatever have LONG since been accepted, which is why we have tier 2 profiles for them

Look at flowey for example, and skip all the way to omega flowey or god of hyperdeath/Asriel key

Both of them are already tier 2, you don't need to make a blog reiterating that

 

[AyOgUyS]

his stats are terrible but i'm talking about his abilities they are not included in his ap, dc but perfect for the ability to nullify his abilities he is quite confident in winning against pacifist frisk but not confident in winning against genocidal frisk so you didn't read it completely. Yes, I'm talking about his spatial and temporal abilities, his ability to dodge attacks, which he ignores the rules of the game and attacks with buttons, something similar to Asgore, but he breaks, and Sans's attacks do something different. Sans has good abilities, he can even be above the genocidal Frisk, since the character doesn't even try to fight.

First of all True Pacifist Frisk would quite easily beat Sans and second of all how can he be above the character who killed him

This is in the fandom, but it was introduced as breaking the 4th wall, but this is Sans' ability. All of Sans' abilities are at a level above everyone else. He has incredible abilities, so Flowey can't reset him in any way.

No, he is absolutely still affected by RESETs

In some ways, it's hard to give Papyrus a higher ranking than Asgore, but in other respects, it's sometimes pointed out that he's insanely strong.

because asgore has higher stats so he's objectively just stronger

Yes, this is exactly the case, that no one knows how MWI works. One of the problems is when 2-A is without MWI theories, but 1-C must be present. MWI theory is necessary since the interpretation creates a multiple layer of 3 space and 1 time, and the multiverse must support this structure and add 1 structure to space, resulting in 5D.

false
you can have a 4-D structure contain several smaller but still universal 4-D constructs within itself without needing any additional dimensions

 

[Oikarian]

1. Having hax and powers does not inherently boost your strength. Sans is not above Undyne (the lowest an Undyne check stat ever was is her DEF during the main Undyne fight, which is still 19 over any of Sans’ check stats).

Again, this is a problem. Most Sans characters are "glass." They are weak but strong. They don't need to have high AP, DC, or durability. It's enough for such a character to simply be inactive or at least have powers that are good in themselves. Glass characters like XGaster don't have universal durability, but their OverWrite abilities change the universe itself.

2.1. Papyrus is strong, yes. Undyne calls him “pretty freaking tough” and his stats are currently used to help set a benchmark for monsters who are “weak” and those who are strong (well, technically that’s because Aaron and Woshua, but Papyrus helps cement how strong Aaron is). He is not, however, stronger than monsters like Asgore or whatever. He has an attack and defense of 20 while the strongest monsters can have 4x that.

I also didn't take into account his game statistics. It's strange to compare his statistics when he wasn't serious. We don't know his serious side. So please don't take that side into account. His abilities aren't fully shown. He showed most of them before the battle.

2.2. Papyrus probably didn’t look into the games code to figure out who Happstablook was, he probably just… knew it. He’s a pretty sociable guy ngl. The annoying dog also isn’t Papyrus’ pet, that’s just headcanon. Papyrus also didn’t survive when you kill him, people mention him dying!!! Undyne mentions it and Sans calls you a dirty brother killer and he wouldn’t if there was no brother that was killed. Honestly a lot of the Papyrus blog is just headcanon, like the “magic pencil” part. He says he painted on a rock formation, not that he stole So Sorry’s pencil.

I didn't say he was know into the game codes, I just wrote "coincidences and sometimes it's worth noticing such small details." Where did you get the idea of knowing into the game codes? I also wrote that Sans is unpredictable for most of the dialogue, although the fact that Papyrus survived somehow simply explained that he is a Deltarune character and did not show his death.

3. I’m not gonna talk about Low 1-C cosmology that much but when you say “Maybe we should think about a new level of powers monsters and people in Undertale get Low 1-C”, how many people do you mean? Because this makes it sound like a lot more than just the top tiers (Peak Determination Frisk, Asriel, Chara, and Player).

I won't explain it in this context. It seems you didn't understand the meaning of soul powers. Yes, I expected that. Not everyone would understand how soul powers work on this scale. It turned out to be a complex context. Not everyone would understand.

4. Your calculations aren’t accepted (though we do have accepted ones on this wiki iirc), Dark World stats aren’t currently accepted as scaling to a Lightner’s light world form, and that’s still just a theory. A probable one imo, but still just a theory.

Lastly a fair few abilities you proposed are already ones we have listed on the wiki :/

I'm not sure you understood the full part of these contexts, most of the contexts contradict what I said in the source, either you didn't read carefully or the context was too complicated for you, but something must be the reason for this.

 

[Oikarian]

Noticing a ton of stuff either needs work or is already on the profile

won't comment on the former, but I suggest looking at the UT profiles and some of the CRTs before making stuff because things like UT timelines not being mountain-sized or whatever have LONG since been accepted, which is why we have tier 2 profiles for them

Look at flowey for example, and skip all the way to omega flowey or god of hyperdeath/Asriel key

Both of them are already tier 2, you don't need to make a blog reiterating that

Yes, I understand that if you change the cosmology, it's logical that it should be done by all the characters, but I introduced this so that others would know. I don't need this change, but it's enough to give the truth.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

All of Sans' abilities are at a level above everyone else. He has incredible abilities, so Flowey can't reset him in any way.

Didn't flowey literally say something about how sans caused him his fair share of resets?

Even if we ignore that the whole point of his special attack is because since he KNOWS he can't win due to reset he just tries to make you give up.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yes, I understand that if you change the cosmology, it's logical that it should be done by all the characters, but I introduced this so that others would know. I don't need this change, but it's enough to give the truth.

But thats what the CRTS and accepted cosmology blog on the profile is for

You don't see people arguing 7-A or 5-B UTDR anymore because of this

maybe off site sure but on site almost everyone knows and its already on the verses page

 

[Oikarian]

First of all True Pacifist Frisk would quite easily beat Sans and second of all how can he be above the character who killed him

I know that the true pacifist Frisk will defeat Sans. I wrote this in the source that the true pacifist Frisk and Asriel are the strongest because their soul power surpasses everyone else, but I wrote the pacifist Frisk. I didn't write the true pacifist Frisk.

No, he is absolutely still affected by RESETs

In fact, he doesn't have a soul, so he can't get a reset because in Deltarune, only Chris has a soul, not his team, Deltarune characters don't have souls, but at the same time, if you arrange an endless genocide, the enemy will surrender, although he himself mentioned that there is no point in him fighting to the fullest.

because asgore has higher stats so he's objectively just stronger

If objectively he can break buttons and if you believe Undyne's words, he can dodge, although this is not a fact, but he can break buttons, then yes, in some sense he can, but even Flowey isn't afraid of him. It's hard for me to say which of them is superior.

false
you can have a 4-D structure contain several smaller but still universal 4-D constructs within itself without needing any additional dimensions

No, such a thing doesn't exist in physics. MWI is an interpretation. I won't explain it too much, honestly, since it contains a lot of explanations of quantum wave functions and so on. That would be stupid. We need to know that this is a confusion and that it's impossible to give MWI a 4D multiverse. That is, universes have MWI. This is how they were able to prove the multiverse's 5-dimensional structure.

 

[Oikarian]

Didn't flowey literally say something about how sans caused him his fair share of resets?

Did Flowey write that he defeated him? And let's assume that he defeated Sans, but would he run away from someone who is looking for him? In dialogues, he mentioned not trying to approach him, not to mention that he was a big threat.

Even if we ignore that the whole point of his special attack is because since he KNOWS he can't win due to reset he just tries to make you give up.

I actually remember, but I wrote in the source that Sans just gave up, his dialogue is straightforward if he says that he will die, he will die, he doesn’t have to try, he just warned us that the timeline will be erased and everything will start again

 

[StrymULTRA]

What am I even looking at.

 

[Oikarian]

But thats what the CRTS and accepted cosmology blog on the profile is for

You don't see people arguing 7-A or 5-B UTDR anymore because of this

maybe off site sure but on site almost everyone knows and its already on the verses page

I don't know what's going on outside of vs. battle. I was just trying to take into account the errors in Sans and Papyrus' wikis that they deserve buffs and, if possible, add some resistance to monsters like buttercup flowers if possible. In any case, it was an interesting discussion, but it's a shame that not everyone understands my context.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Did Flowey write that he defeated him?

Considering the fact he's hyping sans up as a strong opponent and current flowey typically only resets after dying since he's done basically everything the world has to offer...yeah

And let's assume that he defeated Sans, but would he run away from someone who is looking for him?

You said that he couldn't affect Sans with reset in anyway, assuming this is the case then flowey should not be able to run away as sans would still be in the same position with all of his memories and should just continue attacking him

heck sans has like kilometers of range with his teleportation so following him should definitely be possible

In dialogues, he mentioned not trying to approach him, not to mention that he was a big threat.

The whole context is him hyping up sans as a strong enemy...ofc he's a threat

heck we literally have KR accepted as working on soulless beings BECAUSE he's assumed to be a threat

I actually remember, but I wrote in the source that Sans just gave up, his dialogue is straightforward if he says that he will die, he will die, he doesn’t have to try, he just warned us that the timeline will be erased and everything will start again

Why would sans give up if he has the power to stop resets from happening and shows open disapproval with reset?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I don't know what's going on outside of vs. battle. I was just trying to take into account the errors in Sans and Papyrus' wikis that they deserve buffs and, if possible, add some resistance to monsters like buttercup flowers if possible. In any case, it was an interesting discussion, but it's a shame that not everyone understands my context.

please just skim over the verses page and our accepted blogs for UT (oh yea and DT as well) before making a CRT

 

[Oikarian]

skimming through this was like:
uh huh uh huh i guess- LOW 1-C IMMEASURABLE SPEED???

Immeasurable because lost souls are equal to the speed of true pacifist Frisk, but I also gave a level if you know how souls work, but this is a heavy context of scale, not everyone will understand, and I am not going to explain it here, it is long and difficult. If you wrote in Russian, I could convey this, but it will be difficult in English.

 

[Oikarian]

Considering the fact he's hyping sans up as a strong opponent and current flowey typically only resets after dying since he's done basically everything the world has to offer...yeah

So you're hulf right, but I'll still tell you. Flowey really did reset a lot and learned everything, but his dialogue doesn't tell the whole story. For example, he says Chara is special, but in neutral, he mentions Papyrus is special. Also, Flowey couldn't destroy 40,000 monsters—that's just sarcasm—but he killed Asgore.

You said that he couldn't affect Sans with reset in anyway, assuming this is the case then flowey should not be able to run away as sans would still be in the same position with all of his memories and should just continue attacking him

heck sans has like kilometers of range with his teleportation so following him should definitely be possible

Also, before the Genocide game, Sans and Papyrus weren't in Undertale. We were told directly that they had recently appeared in Snowdin. We remember Flowey's words when Sans appeared, he caused a lot of problems and stopped playing the Genocide games.

The whole context is him hyping up sans as a strong enemy...ofc he's a threat

heck we literally have KR accepted as working on soulless beings BECAUSE he's assumed to be a threat

Yes, he is a strong character, he can easily create the same situation as Sans' final attack, in which he is inactive, but Frisk was able to avoid it due to her high level of determination, but this attack cannot be avoided because you are inactive.

Why would sans give up if he has the power to stop resets from happening and shows open disapproval with reset?

Sans don't destroy reset, I didn't write that in the source, I mentioned that he can just fight endlessly until the enemy surrenders or resets the world to avoid meeting Sans.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

So you're hulf right, but I'll still tell you. Flowey really did reset a lot and learned everything, but his dialogue doesn't tell the whole story. For example, he says Chara is special, but in neutral,

He specifically says chara is not a good person...

he mentions Papyrus is special.

pretty sure thats in refference to the fact paps is just stronger than he lets on which undyne also reiterates

Also, Flowey couldn't destroy 40,000 monsters—that's just sarcasm—but he killed Asgore.

yeah...after FRISK weakens him in fact he straight up says he could never beat asgore

Also, before the Genocide game, Sans and Papyrus weren't in Undertale. We were told directly that they had recently appeared in Snowdin.

snowdin is a place in undertale....

We remember Flowey's words when Sans appeared, he caused a lot of problems and stopped playing the Genocide games.

I mean not really? At the very begining of the game he's still on about the same phylosophy of "THiS WorLD is KiLL Or BE KilLED!1!1" before trying to kill frisk only for Toreil to intervene.

He still very much kills stuff

Yes, he is a strong character, he can easily create the same situation as Sans' final attack, in which he is inactive, but Frisk was able to avoid it due to her high level of determination, but this attack cannot be avoided because you are inactive.

No, Frisk just moves the game box and then has chara break the rules of the game to hit him twice

Sans don't destroy reset, I didn't write that in the source, I mentioned that he can just fight endlessly until the enemy surrenders or resets the world to avoid meeting Sans.

But you just said reset couldn't affect Sans in any way

This is in the fandom, but it was introduced as breaking the 4th wall, but this is Sans' ability. All of Sans' abilities are at a level above everyone else. He has incredible abilities, so Flowey can't reset him in any way. But at the same time, Sans doesn't have good stats. He's a "glass" character, something like fragile but strong.

 

[AyOgUyS]

In fact, he doesn't have a soul, so he can't get a reset because in Deltarune, only Chris has a soul, not his team, Deltarune characters don't have souls, but at the same time, if you arrange an endless genocide, the enemy will surrender, although he himself mentioned that there is no point in him fighting to the fullest.

first of all its Kris second of all wdym Sans doesn't have a soul all monsters have souls

If objectively he can break buttons and if you believe Undyne's words, he can dodge, although this is not a fact, but he can break buttons, then yes, in some sense he can, but even Flowey isn't afraid of him. It's hard for me to say which of them is superior.

...Asgore>Undyne>Papyrus>Sans

The game literally tells us their stats in comparison to each other

No, such a thing doesn't exist in physics. MWI is an interpretation. I won't explain it too much, honestly, since it contains a lot of explanations of quantum wave functions and so on. That would be stupid. We need to know that this is a confusion and that it's impossible to give MWI a 4D multiverse. That is, universes have MWI. This is how they were able to prove the multiverse's 5-dimensional structure.

If you don't explain that weakens your argument.

Also not every verse that has multiple universes has MWI that's just blatantly not true

 

[AyOgUyS]

Immeasurable because lost souls are equal to the speed of true pacifist Frisk, but I also gave a level if you know how souls work, but this is a heavy context of scale, not everyone will understand, and I am not going to explain it here, it is long and difficult. If you wrote in Russian, I could convey this, but it will be difficult in English.

No proof at all. None of the souls have outran timeline destruction like Frisk have and none of them are even remotely comparable to Frisk

 

[AyOgUyS]

I won't explain it in this context. It seems you didn't understand the meaning of soul powers. Yes, I expected that. Not everyone would understand how soul powers work on this scale. It turned out to be a complex context. Not everyone would understand.


I'm not sure you understood the full part of these contexts, most of the contexts contradict what I said in the source, either you didn't read carefully or the context was too complicated for you, but something must be the reason for this.

This doesn't help your argument at all

 

[Oikarian]

He specifically says chara is not a good person...

pretty sure thats in refference to the fact paps is just stronger than he lets on which undyne also reiterates

This isn't a reference, and this feat doesn't give him any. It's just an emphasis on the fact that he's a special friend, but he still avoids Papyrus.

yeah...after FRISK weakens him in fact he straight up says he could never beat asgore

rather, it was a dialogue about 6 souls that the king did not show him

snowdin is a place in undertale....

You don't have to look for them directly in the undertale game, although they exist and there are many of them. You can also look for them in interviews, as Papyrus almost said about another world, but Sans interrupted the conversation again.

I mean not really? At the very begining of the game he's still on about the same phylosophy of "THiS WorLD is KiLL Or BE KilLED!1!1" before trying to kill frisk only for Toreil to intervene.

He still very much kills stuff

He still adheres to his notion that might is right, and it's even interesting that Flowey, who has read all the books, takes on Sans's habits and even some of Papyrus's, although they are hardly noticeable. It seems he is genuinely interested in the skeleton brothers.

No, Frisk just moves the game box and then has chara break the rules of the game to hit him twice

No, again, Frisk could have done it through determination, but Chara was able to deal the second blow, although this is not a fact, it is already a theory, it could have been Frisk. It is impossible to say who did the second blow. It is the same as the hacker's ending. Toby Fox could have added it just for fun, but everyone believes that Sans breaks the 4th wall. Although if you believe that Chara was the genocide, then Sans fought with Chara throughout the entire battle, not Frisk.

But you just said reset couldn't affect Sans in any way

I never said that Sans is not affected by saves, but he is affected by them and he is using EIQ to try to guess which murder it is, but if he is serious, it will be an endless genocide until Frisk completely surrenders.

 

[Oikarian]

No proof at all. None of the souls have outran timeline destruction like Frisk have and none of them are even remotely comparable to Frisk

I'll be honest, if you didn't understand the context, I don't think we'll have a real discussion about this, so it's better to remain silent at this point, since a discussion won't yield anything. I can't explain it to you so that you understand how souls work, since I even admit that I have very difficult contexts.

 

[AyOgUyS]

I'll be honest, if you didn't understand the context, I don't think we'll have a real discussion about this, so it's better to remain silent at this point, since a discussion won't yield anything. I can't explain it to you so that you understand how souls work, since I even admit that I have very difficult contexts.

-_-

 

[Re5yh]

 

[Oikarian]

There's a dispute going on here about a misunderstanding of the context. People don't understand what I'm writing, and I'm trying to resolve the situation so they understand the meaning. In any case, feel free to think about it. If you really want to discuss something you don't understand, I can explain it.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

This isn't a reference, and this feat doesn't give him any. It's just an emphasis on the fact that he's a special friend, but he still avoids Papyrus.

Why though?

rather, it was a dialogue about 6 souls that the king did not show him

huh?

• I owe you a HUGE thanks.
• You really did a number on that old fool.
• Without you, I NEVER could have gotten past him.
• But now, with YOUR help...
• He's DEAD.
• And I'VE got the human SOULS!

He literally says thanks to you he could kill him

also he reveals right afterwards he has knowledge on what the souls do anyway so asgore not showing him or whatever dosen't matter

heck i'm pretty sure what the souls do is common knowledge for just about every monster in verse at least as far as power goes

You don't have to look for them directly in the undertale game, although they exist and there are many of them. You can also look for them in interviews, as Papyrus almost said about another world, but Sans interrupted the conversation again.

I'm confused, you said snowdin wasn't a place in UT yet it is and now you're saying it exists and that there are many of them?

He still adheres to his notion that might is right, and it's even interesting that Flowey, who has read all the books, takes on Sans's habits and even some of Papyrus's, although they are hardly noticeable. It seems he is genuinely interested in the skeleton brothers.

Thats cool ig? Wasn't the main argument the idea that sans stoped floweys genocidal habbits?

Also, before the Genocide game, Sans and Papyrus weren't in Undertale. We were told directly that they had recently appeared in Snowdin. We remember Flowey's words when Sans appeared, he caused a lot of problems and stopped playing the Genocide games.

No, again, Frisk could have done it through determination, but Chara was able to deal the second blow, although this is not a fact, it is already a theory, it could have been Frisk.

Typically when frisk does something through DT its usually stated that they're determined before hand, a good example of this is their fight with asgore and how just before the fight the game says their filled with determination.

It is impossible to say who did the second blow. It is the same as the hacker's ending.

We already have it accepted i'm pretty sure that chara did it so that goes no where

Toby Fox could have added it just for fun,

refer to above

but everyone believes that Sans breaks the 4th wall. Although if you believe that Chara was the genocide, then Sans fought with Chara throughout the entire battle, not Frisk.

Nobody is really saying that chara is single handidly the one responsible for piloting frisk through the genocide run, in fact the game kinda implies the opposite of that

I never said that Sans is not affected by saves, but he is affected by them and he is using EIQ to try to guess which murder it is, but if he is serious, it will be an endless genocide until Frisk completely surrenders.

You literally just said IN THE QUOTE that they don't effect him in any way

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I'll be honest, if you didn't understand the context, I don't think we'll have a real discussion about this, so it's better to remain silent at this point, since a discussion won't yield anything. I can't explain it to you so that you understand how souls work, since I even admit that I have very difficult contexts.

you need to actually substantiate ur context in a way people can understand...

this website runs on a democracy, if people don't understand what ur saying and are finding contradictions then chances are the CRT simply won't get accepted

 

[Kellex]

Hey OP? I think you might wanna check sans and papyrus page again cause the already have some of those powers you mentioned.

Sans

sans is a supporting character and the Genocide Route's final boss in the video game; Undertale. He is one of the guards of Snowdin Village. Lazy and frivolous with a knack for making puns and jokes, he has no interest in capturing humans, much to the chagrin of his brother, Papyrus. Despite his...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Papyrus

PAPYRUS is Sans' younger brother and one of the two guards of Snowdin Village. Energetic, naive, and optimistic to a fault, he constantly attempts to capture Frisk in hopes of becoming a member of the Royal Guard and thus popular amongst the residents of the Underground. His brashness belies his...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Oikarian]

Why though?

huh?

• I owe you a HUGE thanks.
• You really did a number on that old fool.
• Without you, I NEVER could have gotten past him.
• But now, with YOUR help...
• He's DEAD.
• And I'VE got the human SOULS!

He literally says thanks to you he could kill him

also he reveals right afterwards he has knowledge on what the souls do anyway so asgore not showing him or whatever dosen't matter

But here he doesn't say that Asgore killed him, although in the genocide episode he mentions Asgore, but Asgore dont show souls, there was no dialogue about killing, where did the idea of killing come from?

heck i'm pretty sure what the souls do is common knowledge for just about every monster in verse at least as far as power goes

I'm confused, you said snowdin wasn't a place in UT yet it is and now you're saying it exists and that there are many of them?

Now it's clear, maybe it's a translator's mistake, maybe you read it wrong, but I meant that the skeleton brothers appeared in Undertale recently, before the Flowey genocide.

Thats cool ig? Wasn't the main argument the idea that sans stoped floweys genocidal habbits?

Will this change his kill-or-be-killed goal? He was able to survive the reset and escape the meeting with Sans.

Typically when frisk does something through DT its usually stated that they're determined before hand, a good example of this is their fight with asgore and how just before the fight the game says their filled with determination.

It's very good that you're trying to find evidence, but we're talking about genocide Frisk. Sans himself were already ready to be killed. It's worth reading the source carefully. He was ready to die in the genocide. He didn't count on victory. He even says himself that he doesn't need to try. Sans can, but his dialogue always talks about giving up and giving in.

We already have it accepted i'm pretty sure that chara did it so that goes no where

refer to above

Nobody is really saying that chara is single handidly the one responsible for piloting frisk through the genocide run, in fact the game kinda implies the opposite of that

It's hard to say in the ObjoverWorldController code whether exp is mentioned as much as we need. It turns out, to some extent, that Chara controls Frisk. If we really look at this argument, in my opinion, it turns out that Frisk is the pacifist and Chara is the genocide. The more murders, the more text and actions Chara takes.

You literally just said IN THE QUOTE that they don't effect him in any way

This misunderstanding, but I don't know how you thought about it. Perhaps it's because of a misunderstanding that he can view the character's statistics?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

But here he doesn't say that Asgore killed him

right but what he does say is that he normally would never be able to get pass asgore on his own which is the argument

, although in the genocide episode he mentions Asgore, but Asgore dont show souls, there was no dialogue about killing, where did the idea of killing come from?

As far as i'm aware what I said was that frisk weakens him first and then flowey kills asgore

idk where you got the idea that I said asgore killed flowey

Now it's clear, maybe it's a translator's mistake, maybe you read it wrong, but I meant that the skeleton brothers appeared in Undertale recently, before the Flowey genocide.

How does this tie into the argument though?

Will this change his kill-or-be-killed goal? He was able to survive the reset and escape the meeting with Sans.

Again how does this tie into the CRT

It's very good that you're trying to find evidence, but we're talking about genocide Frisk. Sans himself were already ready to be killed. It's worth reading the source carefully. He was ready to die in the genocide. He didn't count on victory. He even says himself that he doesn't need to try. Sans can, but his dialogue always talks about giving up and giving in.

Yeah nobody is really going against the idea that sans was ready to die. one of the things we were discussing though is sans being effected by reset

It's hard to say in the ObjoverWorldController code whether exp is mentioned as much as we need. It turns out, to some extent, that Chara controls Frisk. If we really look at this argument, in my opinion, it turns out that Frisk is the pacifist and Chara is the genocide. The more murders, the more text and actions Chara takes.

This is true and already in the game but how does this support the CRT?

This misunderstanding, but I don't know how you thought about it. Perhaps it's because of a misunderstanding that he can view the character's statistics?

You said sans could not be effected in anyway by flowey using reset

Obviously we're going to interprete this as "sans is immune to the space-time altering effects of save, load and reset"

 

[Mommyleona]

Immeasurable because lost souls are equal to the speed of true pacifist Frisk, but I also gave a level if you know how souls work, but this is a heavy context of scale, not everyone will understand, and I am not going to explain it here, it is long and difficult. If you wrote in Russian, I could convey this, but it will be difficult in English.

ну по русски я умею лол)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

ну по русски я умею лол)

Дак его и по-русски понять нельзя…

 

[Oikarian]

right but what he does say is that he normally would never be able to get pass asgore on his own which is the argument

and you just now gave yourself an answer in the genocide Flowey mentioned that Asgore would show us souls and he really showed Flowey in the neutral ending he used this chance

As far as i'm aware what I said was that frisk weakens him first and then flowey kills asgore

idk where you got the idea that I said asgore killed flowey

My translator doesn't translate perfectly, so I'm unlikely to understand some words.

How does this tie into the argument though?

You wrote something that wasn't clear to you. For example, Snowdin isn't in Undertale. However, I wrote it down so you'd understand.

Again how does this tie into the CRT

I don't understand what you're trying to say at this point. Maybe you're talking about Flowey surrendering, yes, he surrendered and ran away from the battle with Sans. That's Sans showing the cruelty that kill-or-be-killed shows.

Yeah nobody is really going against the idea that sans was ready to die. one of the things we were discussing though is sans being effected by reset

Does anyone suffer from a reset? Frisk just resets Sans, and he doesn't remember anything; he's just standing there on the battlefield.

This is true and already in the game but how does this support the CRT?

Did that have anything to do with it? It's a common question whether Chara controls Frisk's body, although it doesn't matter since Chara mentioned that her power was always ours, so whether Chara or Frisk controls it, their powers will be the same.

You said sans could not be effected in anyway by flowey using reset

Obviously we're going to interprete this as "sans is immune to the space-time altering effects of save, load and reset"

However, how you came to this is simply a misunderstanding, because if it were, I would have mentioned it in the context of evidence, but there is none, so Sans was always vulnerable to reset. He may have amazing control of space, but he's vulnerable to resets, and can simply fight until the enemy completely breaks mentally.

 

[Oikarian]

oikarian01 просто введи это в Дискорд если получится объясню сегодня если нет завтра, просто дай вопрос какой нибудь

ну по русски я умею лол)

 

[Mommyleona]

oikarian01 просто введи это в Дискорд если получится объясню сегодня если нет завтра, просто дай вопрос какой нибудь