Shen's Cannon: AP Upgrade

[KnightDark_990]

Shen's Cannon: AP Upgrade

Shen's cannon was said to be the most devastating weapon in the verse up to that point.

This would place his cannon above Lei Lidang's Hammer, which could pulverize mountains.


Hammer:

This wouldn't be inconsistent, since narratively Shen's weapon was the only one up to that point capable of "destroying Kung Fu".

This would upgrade the levels of most characters, especially since Tigress or Shen withstood such an explosion.

(and doesn't rule out the possibility of the Furious Five having withstood blows from this hammer).

Agree: AyOgUyS
Disagree: JJSliderman
Neutral: Arkansalter2

 

[AyOgUyS]

seems fine at a glance

 

[Arkansalter2]

Ehhh. Neutral. Seems good at a glance but one would need a calc to see where this would put the cast.

 

[Kyleb79]

I’m a little dubious of scaling them to the canon. The direct impact kills Rhino, incapacitates the Five even when not directly hit, same with Tigress (who kind of took it), Shen does take a near blast radius, but when he is directly hit by it he dies.

I think also the fact that LoA alignment with the series canon is sketchy. They are attached by the creators intent, but different writers and all. So I don’t think the canon and hammer correlation was thought of. I think the hammer was treated as a one shot in that episode too.

I think the metaphor with destroying Kung Fu was more so Shen getting rid of every master across China, the weapon making them powerless.

 

[KnightDark_990]

I’m a little dubious of scaling them to the canon. The direct impact kills Rhino, incapacitates the Five even when not directly hit, same with Tigress (who kind of took it), Shen does take a near blast radius, but when he is directly hit by it he dies.

True, my point was that they could possibly scale due to some characters resisting the explosion energy of the attack, not the direct shot which is greater damage.

If I'm not mistaken, LOA was accepted as canonical

I think also the fact that LoA alignment with the series canon is sketchy. They are attached by the creators intent, but different writers and all. So I don’t think the canon and hammer correlation was thought of. I think the hammer was treated as a one shot in that episode too.

If I'm not mistaken, LOA was accepted as canonical

I think the metaphor with destroying Kung Fu was more so Shen getting rid of every master across China, the weapon making them powerless.

In fact, it is difficult to guarantee that the characters will escalables such weapons, since a direct shot from the cannon already poses a fatal risk to the characters' lives and there is a high probability that they will be left with no life left, as soon as they resist the explosion it is something more like a "possible". But regarding the hammer, before the events of kung fu panda 1, it was said that the five furious fought against Tong Fo who used this hammer as an attack against the five, and Shifu described it as a "difficult fight, but the five furious won". It wasn't shown the entire fight or them taking blows from the hammer, but I think it's fair that they "possibly" escalate to that level, since if the fight was described as "difficult" + Tong Fo had the focus of using this hammer to attack the five furious, then the most consistent possibility would be that they could resist blows from weapons of this power. So putting almost every existing kung fu panda fighting character as possibly at that level would be fair. Like "possibly 7-B"

 

[KnightDark_990]

Ehhh. Neutral. Seems good at a glance but one would need a calc to see where this would put the cast.

It should be between city level or mountain level.

a flashback shows that the hammer fragmented the mountain, but at the end of the episode the hammer pulverized a

 

[Arkansalter2]

It should be between city level or mountain level.

Hmm I find it hard to buy. Mountains are mostly stone. This looks like valley of some sort. One would need to calc it.

 

[KnightDark_990]

Hum, acho difícil de acreditar. Montanhas são quase todas de pedra. Isso parece um vale. Seria preciso calcular. Hmm I find it hard to buy. Mountains are mostly stone. This looks like valley of some sort.

Okay, I'll take a closer look at the level. One question, if in the future to change the character profile level, would it be necessary to send it to a wiki administrator, or just to a certain number of users?

 

[Arkansalter2]

One question, if in the future to change the character profile level, would it be necessary to send it to a wiki administrator, or just to a certain number of users?

A tier change would require a CRT. However for this, a calc would be needed. Mountains aren't normally grassy. That more looks to be like a large valley so it may just be roughly city level.

 

[KnightDark_990]

A tier change would require a CRT. However for this, a calc would be needed. Mountains aren't normally grassy. That more looks to be like a large valley so it may just be roughly city level.

I understand, I did this crt, there's just one calculation left. On the page I sent about the destruction of mountains and islands, there is the destruction of small mountains that would be at the level of small town (fragmentation), city (violent fragmentation) and city (pulverization). so you're right, it would be small town-city level. I'm not good at calculations and to be honest we don't even have an idea of the size of the mountain in the image and most of its composite material (since the outside is covered in forest), there is no reference point to scale. The only thing I can say is that it would be a small mountain, which is calculated for a small town. so the most I can do is use the average volume of a small mountain (assumption) and use a value of soil or earth destruction (or something like that, since we don't know if most of this mountain is made of stone, since it only has grass visible).

anyway, it would be cool to see this with other experienced users of the verse to argue and come to a point as to whether it is worth changing the level of the verse as a "possible".

 

[JJSliderman]

Eh idk, the hammer is generally a lot more destructive than the cannon in terms of the damage it causes.

Leaning disagree.

 

[KnightDark_990]

I’m a little dubious of scaling them to the canon. The direct impact kills Rhino, incapacitates the Five even when not directly hit, same with Tigress (who kind of took it), Shen does take a near blast radius, but when he is directly hit by it he dies.

I think also the fact that LoA alignment with the series canon is sketchy. They are attached by the creators intent, but different writers and all. So I don’t think the canon and hammer correlation was thought of. I think the hammer was treated as a one shot in that episode too.

I think the metaphor with destroying Kung Fu was more so Shen getting rid of every master across China, the weapon making them powerless.

You can vote if you want: agree, disagree or neutral?

 

[Dark-Carioca]

I'm gonna say disagree, we see the destructive power of these cannons and they're most certainly not hill-annihilating levels of power.

Lots of things in Legends of Awesomeness dwarf stuff in the movies in terms of power, and it's worth saying that some of that show takes place after KFP2 so that statement is almost assuredly not counting stuff we see in the show.

Also, no calc was provided so this can't really be an upgrade...

 

[KnightDark_990]

I'm gonna say disagree, we see the destructive power of these cannons and they're most certainly not hill-annihilating levels of power.

Lots of things in Legends of Awesomeness dwarf stuff in the movies in terms of power, and it's worth saying that some of that show takes place after KFP2 so that statement is almost assuredly not counting stuff we see in the show.

Also, no calc was provided so this can't really be an upgrade...

episode 8 of season 1(hammer episode) of LOA takes place between the first and second film,

and I did the calculation

Calculating the height of Lei Lang's hammer from Kung Fu Panda LOA to destroy mountains

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Dark-Carioca]

What in the world is that calc...

Upload the clip to YouTube if you have a channel, don't leave a link to a pirate site on the blog post (same goes for the "The hammer was said to destroy mountains" thing, we need an actual statement and not a wiki page). And upload the pixel scaling to the blog post as images, who the heck leaves a YouTube short there as proof? xD

episode 8 of season 1(hammer episode) of LOA takes place between the first and second film

Does it? I mean, probably, but we can't say for sure since it's a very episodic show where not everything is gonna be seen in order.

Either way, my previous point still stands: that Shen cannon statement is almost assuredly not counting stuff we see in the show.

 

[KnightDark_990]

What in the world is that calc...

Upload the clip to YouTube if you have a channel, don't leave a link to a pirate site on the blog post (same goes for the "The hammer was said to destroy mountains" thing, we need an actual statement and not a wiki page). And upload the pixel scaling to the blog post as images, who the heck leaves a YouTube short there as proof? xD

I couldn't upload images here, so the only way I found was through YouTube. If you want to suggest how to upload them...

Does it? I mean, probably, but we can't say for sure since it's a very episodic show where not everything is gonna be seen in order.

Either way, my previous point still stands: that Shen cannon statement is almost assuredly not counting stuff we see in the show.

Literally, season 1 takes place in 2008, where the hell did you get the idea that this takes place after the second movie? Besides, this is just DC, in AP the cannon surpasses it.

 

[Arkenis]

I couldn't upload images here, so the only way I found was through YouTube. If you want to suggest how to upload them...

Imgur or image chest I think it's called.

And if they withstand the explosion, you can calc durability from that

 

[Dark-Carioca]

I couldn't upload images here, so the only way I found was through YouTube. If you want to suggest how to upload them...


Literally, season 1 takes place in 2008, where the hell did you get the idea that this takes place after the second movie? Besides, this is just DC, in AP the cannon surpasses it.

I just explained it.

Shows can be set after movies they're tie-ins two but depict events that happen before the movies, constantly. "Enter the Dragon" explicitly takes place after KFP2.

Also, we don't really do the whole "DC/AP" thing anymore on VSBW... And again like I said, ignoring the fact that we don't know who wrote the whole "most destructive weapon ever created", they obviously aren't counting stuff that only appeared in the show.

On the other hand the cannons already don't scale above casual physical feats showcased by other characters, though at the same time the cannons clearly don't showcase the same destructive power as the Hammer or a lot of other weapons from the show.

If you want to suggest how to upload them...

If you can upload pics to YT you can probably record the clips I told you to record as proof to post them on YouTube, or even to the wiki itself since we accept mp4 files. There are countless online tools that can help with all of that.

 

[KnightDark_990]

I just explained it.

Shows can be set after movies they're tie-ins two but depict events that happen before the movies, constantly. "Enter the Dragon" explicitly takes place after KFP2.

The fact that season 1 of the series takes place in 2008 (the second movie in 2011) already shows that the authors intended it to take place before the second movie (it wouldn't make sense for it to be the other way around). Furthermore, the episodes demonstrate consistent chronological order, not a mess as you're trying to suggest. Also, in season 1 there's an episode (which I don't remember offhand, but I can easily find it if I search online) where it says that Po reached his hundredth day as a Dragon Warrior, meaning the entire season 1 takes place a few months after Kung Fu Panda. You're only basing your opinion on the "maybe" part, and there's nothing to prove that the series is disorganized (on the contrary, as I said, it demonstrates a consistent chronological order).

I didn't understand you citing "Enter the Dragon." If it was an example to support the idea that the Hammer episode possibly takes place after the second movie, it's a terrible example, because Enter the Dragon belongs to season 2 (2011), which does indeed take place after the second movie, while the Hammer episode is from season 1 (released in 2008). Using that episode with the Hammer episode makes no sense.

Also, we don't really do the whole "DC/AP" thing anymore on VSBW... And again like I said, ignoring the fact that we don't know who wrote the whole "most destructive weapon ever created", they obviously aren't counting stuff that only appeared in the show.
On the other hand the cannons already don't scale above casual physical feats showcased by other characters, though at the same time the cannons clearly don't showcase the same destructive power as the Hammer or a lot of other weapons from the show.

You guys don't use AP and DC anymore?

It's still considered an official citation, so it applies to the canon feats of the verse. Besides, in the calculation I cited the probability of the characters (5 furious youths) withstanding attacks from the hammer, given that they fought an individual who used that hammer as a weapon and the fight was declared by Shifu as a "difficult fight but the 5 furious youths won," therefore it already qualifies as a "possible" feat to scale.

If you can upload pics to YT you can probably record the clips I told you to record as proof to post them on YouTube, or even to the wiki itself since we accept mp4 files. There are countless online tools that can help with all of that.

I'm inexperienced in this, I'll try it sometime. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

The fact that season 1 of the series takes place in 2008 (the second movie in 2011) already shows that the authors intended it to take place before the second movie (it wouldn't make sense for it to be the other way around). Furthermore, the episodes demonstrate consistent chronological order, not a mess as you're trying to suggest. Also, in season 1 there's an episode (which I don't remember offhand, but I can easily find it if I search online) where it says that Po reached his hundredth day as a Dragon Warrior, meaning the entire season 1 takes place a few months after Kung Fu Panda. You're only basing your opinion on the "maybe" part, and there's nothing to prove that the series is disorganized (on the contrary, as I said, it demonstrates a consistent chronological order).

I didn't understand you citing "Enter the Dragon." If it was an example to support the idea that the Hammer episode possibly takes place after the second movie, it's a terrible example, because Enter the Dragon belongs to season 2 (2011), which does indeed take place after the second movie, while the Hammer episode is from season 1 (released in 2008). Using that episode with the Hammer episode makes no sense.

Cartoons do this all the time, and so do shows in general. Not a lot of shows that are tie-ins to movies will acknowledge when those episodes take place relative to the movies. I didn't say it was disorganized, just that this is the nature of countless shows.

And I used Enter the Dragon as an example because they basically SAY that happened after Shen was defeated. The other episodes could happen at any point in time and it wouldn't be an issue, that is the nature of an episodic show.

Regardless, to reiterate and for the point of the thread there's nothing to do here. The calc is lacking and the justification comes from people who likely didn't work on the film (you don't even say where that "most destructive weapon ever created" thing is from). You say it's an "official citation" but it could be from a magazine page and those usually don't mean much.

You could arguably scale the cannons above this because realistically Shen's cannons wouldn't be as powerful as that young Tigress feat, but first we need a properly made calc.

 

[KnightDark_990]

Cartoons do this all the time, and so do shows in general. Not a lot of shows that are tie-ins to movies will acknowledge when those episodes take place relative to the movies. I didn't say it was disorganized, just that this is the nature of countless shows.

And I used Enter the Dragon as an example because they basically SAY that happened after Shen was defeated. The other episodes could happen at any point in time and it wouldn't be an issue, that is the nature of an episodic show.

Give examples of disorganized drawings, because all DreamWorks episodes are in order; all narrative events respect the order of the episodes. And it's obvious that Enter the Dragon mentions Shen after the second movie, especially since it literally takes place after the second movie xd. Everything in this series demonstrates a chronology between the episodes; nothing indicates otherwise. Again, your only argument is "maybe" or "there are other series," although LOA has never shown anything to confirm that the episodes are not in chronological order. Nor does it make sense for the writers to create them thinking about that; most fiction series follow the pattern of episodes until proven otherwise (something that cannot be proven in LOA because it's the opposite). There's no reason to continue debating this topic, since you have no argument that proves or even suggests that the series' episodes are disorganized.

Note: Also, why are we discussing this? The Furious Five already fought with this weapon before Po was even chosen as the Dragon Warrior in the first movie, meaning this weapon had already been used before the first film, i.e., it existed before Tai Lung got out of prison.

Regardless, to reiterate and for the point of the thread there's nothing to do here. The calc is lacking and the justification comes from people who likely didn't work on the film (you don't even say where that "most destructive weapon ever created" thing is from). You say it's an "official citation" but it could be from a magazine page and those usually don't mean much.

You could arguably scale the cannons above this because realistically Shen's cannons wouldn't be as powerful as that young Tigress feat, but first we need a properly made calc.

The quote is in novel for the second film; the narrative itself establishes the cannon as the most powerful weapon and the only one that deserved to be destroyed and seen as a threat to kung fu. The narrative treats the cannon as the most threatening weapon in the history of Kung Fu.

I've already done the calculations; moreover, the wiki itself has calculations that consider destroying small mountains as the minimum for a large town.

I'll recalculate with pixel images on another occasion, but seriously, do you really need to worry about placing the cannon above the young tigress? The cannon literally left her and the other masters wounded and incapacitated with a single shot.
6:18

Unless you're trying to say young tigress > adult tigress, which is totally nonsensical.