Kamen Rider Tycoon vs The Roaring Knight: Darkness In The Shadows (0-1-0)

[Qurbonboev]

My bad, I forgot that DR matchups are by default assumed to be in Dark Worlds. So Knight can summon Titan (and she will if Rider appears to be too stubborn and strong). What does he have that can surmounts it's mid-high regeneration, and fend off spawns(that would kill him very fast)

 

[Shadowslash125]

mid-high regeneration

Uhmm all Geats Riders have mid-high regen negation

 

[Qurbonboev]

Uhmm all Geats Riders have mid-high regen negation

Idk, how exactly they would interact. Titan regeneration is reliant on Dark Fountain, that will heal Titan as long it's not sealed. Titan would just need to absorb Titanspawns to heal. So either seal the Fountain, or kill Titan with one hit(which needs AP significantly above one that Knight(and by extension Tycoon) scales).
Assuming Tycoon can disable regeneration anyways, he would need to hit Titan for very long time(it's stonewall in stats, DEF is much higher than ATK, and can be raised even higher with wings). And he would be under its danmaku, being forced to fend off Titanspawns, and occasional Knight snips

 

[Shadowslash125]

Idk, how exactly they would interact. Titan regeneration is reliant on Dark Fountain, that will heal Titan as long it's not sealed. Titan would just need to absorb Titanspawns to heal. So either seal the Fountain, or kill Titan with one hit(which needs AP significantly above one that Knight(and by extension Tycoon) scales).
Assuming Tycoon can disable regeneration anyways, he would need to hit Titan for very long time(it's stonewall in stats, DEF is much higher than ATK, and can be raised even higher with wings). And he would be under its danmaku, being forced to fend off Titanspawns, and occasional Knight snips

Remember, stonewalling in stats don't matter when Tycoon would equalise with Titan's stats that are higher that what he has at that moment. Summoning Titan would probably screw the Knight over (unless they're the same statwise). Danmaku isn't too big an issue, like we've discussed before. Titanspawns are covered by the clones whenever possible. The summon itself is cool enough to make the spectacle of the fight shine tho, so there is that.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Remember, stonewalling in stats don't matter when Tycoon would equalise with Titan's stats that are higher that what he has at that moment.

Titan AP is lesser than Knight, but Dura is much higher than that. Tycoon would get higher defense, but it would be useless since no resistance to soul hax.

Summoning Titan would probably screw the Knight over (unless they're the same statwise).

On top of the above Knight sword has elemental bonus against darkness, so Titan wouldn't be much of an issue for her

 

[Shadowslash125]

On top of the above Knight sword has elemental bonus against darkness, so Titan wouldn't be much of an issue for her

Ehh I was talking about the context of desire thing. But yea it wouldn't do much on both ends
For now this does feel like bringing your dad into a fight against a bunch of chimpanzees kinda shit ngl

 

[Qurbonboev]

For now this does feel like bringing your dad into a fight against a bunch of chimpanzees kinda shit ngl

Kinda not, Titan and Titanspawns are still dangerous due to soul damage. Spawns will swarm Tycoon from all sides, and he would need to actively destroy them all.
Desire won't help, since Titan AP would be lower than Tycoon(doesn't matter due to Soulhax), and Tycoon Dira would raise to its level(doesn't matter due to soulhax). So he ends up fighting against very durable opponent, with high endurance, and endless source of healing through Dark Fountain

 

[Shadowslash125]

Kinda not, Titan and Titanspawns are still dangerous due to soul damage. Spawns will swarm Tycoon from all sides, and he would need to actively destroy them all.
Desire won't help, since Titan AP would be lower than Tycoon(doesn't matter due to Soulhax), and Tycoon Dira would raise to its level(doesn't matter due to soulhax). So he ends up fighting against very durable opponent, with high endurance, and endless source of healing through Dark Fountain

Ok a few things to note.
If this match does take too long, Tycoon's gonna RE some soulhax resistance (should he be hit with that shit).
Secondly, Keiwa's AP would actually also equalise with his dura (since it's the highest stat around). Unequal stats kinda don't do much against Spark users anyway.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

RE is actually such a useless ability cause of this rule.

It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this power can obtain any ability whatsoever. Its extent and complexity only go as far its feats and scaling have gone for it, in relation up to countermeasures to powers that already exist in the setting or similar, in a case by case basis.

It's probably not relevant here though cause RK is the only DR character who one-shots with their SOUL hax

 

[Shadowslash125]

RE is actually such a useless ability cause of this rule.

Spark's RE is kinda in a weird spot where it shouldn't be legal but iirc their RE is able to cover 1-C potency hax so it's like kinda powerful enough to adjust to quite a few abilities.
Might have to recheck stuff but that's how I remembered it.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It's less to do with potency and more to do with like how we have a rule that says RE can only do stuff it's been shown to do in-verse and nothin else, very limiting as you see

 

[Qurbonboev]

Secondly, Keiwa's AP would actually also equalise with his dura (since it's the highest stat around). Unequal stats kinda don't do much against Spark users anyway.

His profile indicated that his AP will equalize to higher AP of opponent, not Dura. Maybe you have examples of desire increasing AP to match Dura when faced with stonewall, but without it Tycoon AP would remain at the level of Knight AP(strongest here) and won't increase to level of Titan Dura

 

[Shadowslash125]

Ok so, I went back to check on it, and our RE is actually more busted than we thought.

Depending on how the fight will go, Keiwa would possibly gain new abilities that could work around the soul. The reason being is that Spark itself allows the user to go as far as break the laws of their universe. Being binded by the chains of genesis is a price to pay for changing the world, and Ace was able to RE through it and break them.
To keep you up to speed, the chains of genesis is what removes the free will from the awakened users of spark and petrify everything about them. Tsumuri, another awakened spark user, is able to do the same thing against a much more accelerated (yet chainless) version of this done by the Game Masters of the DGP.

Michinaga, a weaker spark user than Ace (he's basic while Ace should be awakened by that point), was able to regain his Jyamahsin powers and form despite it had previously been erased from the universe by the Goddess of Genesis, thanks to that RE.

TLDR: Spark RE has the backings to make it not fall into NLF territory.

 

[Arkansalter2]

What's tycoon's schtick besides empowerment things? I'm already familiar with knight right about now (soul hax danmaku).

 

[Qurbonboev]

Ok so, I went back to check on it, and our RE is actually more busted than we thought.

Good luck to Kamen riders next opponents, but:
1. Is still NLF to assume he can just gain through RE resistance to attacks to his metaphysical aspect(soul) when no one in his verse showed such ability(which kinda strange, is there really nothing related to Souls in the whole franchise?).
2. Even assuming he can gain it after exposure to such attacks, there is a problem: Knight oneshots people with no Soul resist. So only way he can gain resistance is to him dodge everything that Knight throws, till she summons Titan. Titan and Titanspawns would need to hit him several times to kill him, so he (theoretically) have a way to gain resist.
3. Gained soul resist? Good, but DR enemies would still kill him in several hits at most, since he would have baseline 90 hp

 

[Shadowslash125]

EDIT: Sorry for taking too long

2. Even assuming he can gain it after exposure to such attacks, there is a problem: Knight oneshots people with no Soul resist. So only way he can gain resistance is to him dodge everything that Knight throws, till she summons Titan. Titan and Titanspawns would need to hit him several times to kill him, so he (theoretically) have a way to gain resist.
3. Gained soul resist? Good, but DR enemies would still kill him in several hits at most, since he would have baseline 90 hp

These points are fair, I guess. Although, the RE would specifically be around RK's level of affecting the soul, so it'd would be used to counter that specific soul manip shit. If it was Titan first, then RK, this would be completely valid.

Is still NLF to assume he can just gain through RE resistance to attacks to his metaphysical aspect(soul) when no one in his verse showed such ability(which kinda strange, is there really nothing related to Souls in the whole franchise?)

I mean, attacks that ultimately affect his soul do fall into the category that allows the RE to counter it. Soul stuff does exist in Kamen Rider as a whole, but the big shit would be made in the crt. As of now, attacks to the soul do exist, and a few good number of Riders are able to manipulate and interact with the soul (Ghost comes to mind). Also everyone that's a Rider can already interact with it the first time.

Though actually disregard this because I need to make a crt for it since it only covers defensive hax of the opponents.

His profile indicated that his AP will equalize to higher AP of opponent, not Dura. Maybe you have examples of desire increasing AP to match Dura when faced with stonewall, but without it Tycoon AP would remain at the level of Knight AP(strongest here) and won't increase to level of Titan Dura

Kind of an extreme example, but the Vision Driver users have higher dura via their forcefields that regular Desire Driver users can't equalise to due to the former having enhanced desire. Kamen Rider Geats is able to destroy 4 such forcefields at once and damage the fifth one (in-series wise, his spark woud been higher than that of the Vision Driver users, who are higher than your average desire driver users). Hence, Geats Riders should be able to bridge the AP gap to deal with stonewalls normally.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Kind of an extreme example,

Fair enough.

Idk, Bump

 

[Shadowslash125]

Guess we call it the voting phase now lol

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

I'm here to vote for Tycoon, I believe Slash did enough to prove he has a good enough chance for victory

 

[Shadowslash125]

I forgot this existed

 

[Qurbonboev]

I forgot this existed

Knight got updated several times since last message in here. We made lightner Physiology page, added duraneg to her, added some good resistances.
Imo, it's probably better to close this, or start it in new thread.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Knight got updated several times since last message in here. We made lightner Physiology page, added duraneg to her, added some good resistances.
Imo, it's probably better to close this, or start it in new thread.

Oh, lemme check the shit.
Technically Tycoon's also getting updated to have his final arcs, where he does get a powerful form as well be overall stronger. So I guess I'll let this thread be and remake this when he's updated.