Hellsing 8-B + MHS Calc Addition

[Robo432343]

So these calcs are accepted. The verse should get their AP and speed changed to 8-B and MHS

The feat: Alucard tanked the explosion of an SR-71 blackbird that crashed into an aircraft carrier at Mach 3.2. To protect the plane from being damaged by Rip Van Winkle and enemy fire, Alucard engulfed the entire plane with his powers/shadows and held it together long enough so he could successfully ram the plane into the ship. This would scale to Alucard's durability and ap as his powers/shadows are physical manifestations of his body and also includes his physical normal arms which he uses to attack.

Agree with scaling: Crabwhale Random-Helper323 (downscale) Nierre KLOL506 LoudestProcedure Jason_Courne

Disagree with scaling:

Neutral: Mr. Bambu

 

[LoudestProcedure]

I agree

 

[Random-Helper323]

This seems okay. We can work on scaling in future threads.

 

[Crabwhale]

This seems fine, yeah for the love of **** let this be the last time we have to change these.

 

[Crabwhale]

Gimme one sec.

@Mr. Bambu Yo homeboy.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So I actually have a concern. Alucard takes the wreckeage of the aircraft, and slams it back down onto the aircraft carrier. This destroys it. I assume the idea is that because Alucard survives, it scales to him, but he doesn't tank the full blast. But the calc has no bit of it that figures out what he does take.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

To be clear, I also think the MHS calc is exceptionally generous; the animation certainly seems to disagree, you still see the plane's flames moving at a normal pace. The bullet outspeeds the plane, yes, but the panel has no means of suggesting movement from its framing-- it shows the plane against a flat sky. The assumption of the calc is basically arbitrary and probably inflates the value a good bit. That said, I am not strictly opposed to it, though I am curious what their next best accepted feat is.

 

[Robo432343]

So I actually have a concern. Alucard takes the wreckeage of the aircraft, and slams it back down onto the aircraft carrier. This destroys it. I assume the idea is that because Alucard survives, it scales to him, but he doesn't tank the full blast. But the calc has no bit of it that figures out what he does take.

It's accepted that Alucard scales to the full blast because both he and his coffin were at the centre of the explosion, and his coffin, which is a living creature, was inside the plane and left undamaged. Alucard either protected the coffin with his shadows, or the coffin itself is simply that powerful.

To be clear, I also think the MHS calc is exceptionally generous; the animation certainly seems to disagree, you still see the plane's flames moving at a normal pace. The bullet outspeeds the plane, yes, but the panel has no means of suggesting movement from its framing-- it shows the plane against a flat sky. The assumption of the calc is basically arbitrary and probably inflates the value a good bit. That said, I am not strictly opposed to it, though I am curious what their next best accepted feat is.

I explained in this thread that assuming the jet moved an entire length is bad so we just agreed to assume the distance is from the bottom tip of the jet to the bottom of the screen. I can't think of a better solution than that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It's accepted that Alucard scales to the full blast because both he and his coffin were at the centre of the explosion, and his coffin, which is a living creature, was inside the plane and left undamaged. Alucard either protected the coffin with his shadows, or the coffin itself is simply that powerful.

Being in the ship isn't the same as being at its center. The center could be meters away (presumably at the fuel tank), and through solid surfaces. This would wildly affect the scaling here. It might not even be Tier 8 at that point. Being undamaged entirely suggests something but we can't really use the full value. Maybe if we got schematics of the plane, figured out dimensions, where the blast would start vs the pilot's seat?

I explained in this thread that assuming the jet moved an entire length is bad so we just agreed to assume the distance is from the bottom tip of the jet to the bottom of the screen. I can't think of a better solution than that.

I would still describe the current calc as an unlikely high-end, but I suppose I don't have another metric to offer. I'd accept it as a "possibly" rating, then, appended to the current rating.

 

[Robo432343]

Being in the ship isn't the same as being at its center. The center could be meters away (presumably at the fuel tank), and through solid surfaces. This would wildly affect the scaling here. It might not even be Tier 8 at that point. Being undamaged entirely suggests something but we can't really use the full value. Maybe if we got schematics of the plane, figured out dimensions, where the blast would start vs the pilot's seat?

doesn't this show that Alucard/the plane was at the centre? How do we figure out how much Alucard actually took

I would still describe the current calc as an unlikely high-end, but I suppose I don't have another metric to offer. I'd accept it as a "possibly" rating, then, appended to the current rating.

alright

 

[Mr. Bambu]

doesn't this show that Alucard/The plane was at the centre? How do we figure out how much Alucard actually took

I'm not saying the plane wasn't at the center, obviously it was. It's the source. I'm saying that the plane is a large object, and the explosion has a very specific epicenter, that was probably through several steel barriers from Alucard, if we're attributing the explosion to the plane's fuel source. For Alucard to be at the center, it would literally need to start touching him. And that's probably not what happened. So he took some undefined lower value of the full blast.

 

[Jason_Courne]

I'm saying that the plane is a large object, and the explosion has a very specific epicenter

Idk about the anime, but in the manga, Alucard was actually riding on top of the plane and basically covered the entire width with his body via shapeshifting

 

[Mr. Bambu]

But he isn't covering the full thing there, we can see the metal of the plane.

 

[Jason_Courne]

we can see the metal of the plane

Actually, looking at the schematics of a blackbird irl and comparing it to the manga, the only exposed section seems to be the tip of the plane in front of the cockpit or the engines. Since Alucard was popped out of the cockpit seat and his shadows stretched all they way to the back fins of the plane, he'd likely cover the majority of the plane with his body

 

[Robo432343]

This is what it looks like in the anime

 

[Lilybitdun]

you gotta wait 24hrs between bumps

 

[Robo432343]

Oh I thought it was 8 mb

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Actually, looking at the schematics of a blackbird irl and comparing it to the manga, the only exposed section seems to be the tip of the plane in front of the cockpit or the engines. Since Alucard was popped out of the cockpit seat and his shadows stretched all they way to the back fins of the plane, he'd likely cover the majority of the plane with his body

I think it's a pretty generous interpretation to extend durability to all of Alucard's power, anyways, no? Between the thing not being fully exposed by his weird shadow-stuff and his actual body only tanking a very slim bit of the explosion, I find myself disliking the calc's implications.

This is what it looks like in the anime

You took the frame one nanosecond before it goes back to exposing the metal, man. Why'd you do that.

 

[Robo432343]

You took the frame one nanosecond before it goes back to exposing the metal, man. Why'd you do that.

because the anime scene just shows what the plane would have looked like underneath the shadow


The metal is still covered by Alucard's shadow. It doesn't make sense why Alucard would expose the metal a second later when the entire point of the feat is to protect the plane from being shot so he can ram it into the ship

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You assume it is, but the show does outright show the metal revealed. Mixed with the manga, I don't think this is an instance of hiding the shadow to show the plane beneath.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I think the explosion does have some concerns given the body of the plane wasn't completely destroyed by it. That might be a durability feat for the plane though.

 

[Jason_Courne]

I think it's a pretty generous interpretation to extend durability to all of Alucard's power, anyways, no? Between the thing not being fully exposed by his weird shadow-stuff and his actual body only tanking a very slim bit of the explosion, I find myself disliking the calc's implications.

Not too bad since Alucard would be practically standing on top of the plane as it is crashing down and covering the majority of the plane with his shadows, and I don't see why they wouldn't scale to his durability as they are extensions of his physical body

I think the explosion does have some concerns given the body of the plane wasn't completely destroyed by it

It could be due to weird magic stuff from Alucard since the entire plane was glowing red including the exposed bits his shadow/shapeshifting didn't cover, implying some form of weird fckry

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Not too bad since Alucard would be practically standing on top of the plane as it is crashing down and covering the majority of the plane with his shadows, and I don't see why they wouldn't scale to his durability as they are extensions of his physical body


It could be due to weird magic stuff from Alucard since the entire plane was glowing red including the exposed bits his shadow/shapeshifting didn't cover, implying some form of weird fckry

I don't see why the shadows are being treated as having his durability, though. That's just his power guiding the plane, it's what it looks like. How are they physical extensions of his body?

 

[Jason_Courne]

I don't see why the shadows are being treated as having his durability, though. That's just his power guiding the plane, it's what it looks like. How are they physical extensions of his body?

His shadows would have also withstood a major portion of the plane's explosion since they covered the majority of it, and they are physically a part of his body, all of the "shadows" in the plane sequence literally grew out of his body and shapeshifting and they are physically tangible objects, not just literal shadows. After he regenerates completely, they are his physical "normal" arms

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm aware that they come off of him, and that they enact physical effects. But I don't think they would qualify as "him", for our purposes. It's his power manifesting, not literally his being, in the same way as Superman's heat vision isn't literally him.

 

[Robo432343]

I'm aware that they come off of him, and that they enact physical effects. But I don't think they would qualify as "him", for our purposes. It's his power manifesting, not literally his being, in the same way as Superman's heat vision isn't literally him.

I don't think the Superman analogy really works here because with Superman's heat vision we can clearly see that it leaves his body completely, it can't be damaged and doesn't replace any part of his being. Alucard's shadows are the opposite of that because they physically grow out of him, replace his arms or body mass and can be damaged. Calling them his power manifesting doesn’t really separate them from being him because literally all of Alucard’s physiology is supernatural. His normal arms, his regeneration, and his shapeshifting are all power manifestations but we still treat those as his body and the shadows fall under that. Here we can see that Alucard is quite literally made up of this shadow like substance and in the guidebook it was stated his inconsistent hair shape and length are attributed to his ability to wilfully change it, as it is part of his "shadow."

 

[Random-Helper323]

Alucard's shadows actually are a part of his body, in a way. Technically it's him shapeshifting into this dark substance.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

If this is accepted, it’s most likely that someone will try to downgrade it. Literally, Hellsing has been in an intermittent period of upgrades and downgrades over the past few years.

 

[Robo432343]

The KE for the original calc assumes the blackbird weighs 60,000 pounds but wouldn't it be better to use the max takeoff weight (172,000 lb)? Since the plan was to ram it into the ship, it'd make sense to load it as much as it could. Also the plane was going at mach 3.2, not mach 3

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The KE for the original calc assumes the blackbird weighs 60,000 pounds but wouldn't it be better to use the max takeoff weight (172,000 lb)? Since the plan was to ram it into the ship, it'd make sense to load it as much as it could. Also the plane was going at mach 3.2, not mach 3

More weight means less speed. It would make sense to make it lighter.

 

[Udlmaster]

Related but slightly off topic; Shouldn't people who can survive feats like this also have a certain degree of Gravity manipulation resistance? Shooting downwards at Mach 2.8 (assuming the speed is the same as the Nazi soldier said) would require a really tight maneuver in order to pull it off as we see a sudden shift from flight to shooting almost 90 degree, Alucard would be experiencing some serious Gs during those maneuvers, we know that trained Fighter pilots have an upper limit of 9Gs for brief periods, but Alucard's sharp maneuver seems more severe than that.

We can get a few good numbers if we do the maths correctly using a = v^2/r & n= a/g = v^2/r g

Cool thing is, we already know the speed, roughly 826m/s. Square v (826m/s) for v^2 = 682,276

Now we do have to make some assumptions in the change when calculating the radii, I.E how tight the maneuver actually was, so I'll give a few numbers. (5km, 1km, 0.5km)

Solving for rg, we just get our radii + g (gravity) which we already know is 9.81~ m/s^2; so boom 5,000 x 9.81 = 49,050

We plug that into n = 682,276/49,050

So n = 13.9g

For 1kg, we just repeat the above again but rg= 1,000 x 9.81 = 9,810 this time.

Meaning n = 69.5g (nice)

And for 0.5kg blah blah blah rg = 500 x 9.81 = 4,905

n = 139.1g~

These are the answers I got from using Wikipedia, I imagine you math guys know more than me.

Taking the middle ground of 69.5g (nice), experiencing that many gs and still being totally unaffected (he even had his legs crossed), wouldn't this confer a degree of Gravity manip resistance?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That would certainly be a matter of broader policy. Might pass, might not, but there's a wide application there and would need to be broached appropriately. Maybe gets its own thread later? If accepted, it would probably apply here, though, yeah.

 

[Udlmaster]

That would certainly be a matter of broader policy. Might pass, might not, but there's a wide application there and would need to be broached appropriately. Maybe gets its own thread later? If accepted, it would probably apply here, though, yeah.

Yeah, I'll probably have to ask around, but realistically, it'll probably go into the same group as "Going into space unaffected is Radiation Resistance", a by product of certain feats even if they aren't necessarily always considered by a given writer.

 

[Robo432343]

since alucard covered majority of the plane with his shadows, should he scale?

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

damn

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

so how's the CRT doin, Robo?

 

[Robo432343]

so how's the CRT doin, Robo?

we just need staff opinions if alucard scales to the explosion or not

 

[Random-Helper323]

Didn't Bambu disagree?

 

[Robo432343]

Didn't Bambu disagree?

Bambu disagrees with Alucard scaling to the full blast but the calc itself is fine

We need more staff members to decide if he scales to it or not

 

[Random-Helper323]

Bambu disagrees with Alucard scaling to the full blast but the calc itself is fine

We need more staff members to decide if he scales to it or not

If he doesn't scale then the calculation scales to no-one and nothing.