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Then UES prevents one statistic not scaling to the other regardless of what power is used? I don't do agendas by the way, I want what's closest to truth while taking into account every material in regards to it.
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
ShakeResounding
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Going this route, then it isn't a proper UES and now we have to question Chaos Emerald multipliers entirely, what they apply to, and when they apply.
What you're saying doesn't help you, it actually hurts the scaling of the verse and makes certain characters utter glass cannons.
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That was a question, I wasn't trying to affirm what I said is right. I might not get when certain things apply and don't.
ShakeResounding
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Oh, I misunderstood your grammar, my apologies.
It's possible... if you want to now downgrade the durability of any Chaos Emerald-wielder and make it so they get one-tapped by opponents comparable in strength. Again, doing this means all instances of Chaos Emerald scaling now need to be questioned.
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That wasn't the route I was going for, I had thought Emerald Powers would be separate from the usual nature of Chaos Energy, somehow.
ShakeResounding
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Uhhh... well, I don't think that's possible. It's still utilizing the Chaos Emerald energy, just locked to a specific location.
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You hurt me, seeing me as so low on a fictional subjective matters? OW i am destroyed mentaly so but such betrayal, you, my friend, making me feel such dread and sorrow, shame on you, shame i say, from this day foward, you shaint ever feel peace, that i proclame
The most reasonable to you, not in general, and we are taking gameplay mechanics as full on canon now? we have no reason to believe them being one shoted out of the emerald powers is anything more than a gameplay mechanic
Also... i didn't even agreed with it? i said your view sounded like a strecth... if you stay heated and insulting, i will report you, so calm down you
Same i guess
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no worries... you do have to see that i will use this moment to CLOWN ON YOU with my MEMES tho... you gave me the card
MysticMania
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I'm really worried about how SEGA is messing up IDW. There's already evidence that the pacing of the comic hasn't gone as it was supposed to because of rearrangements behind the scenes, but apparently, we're already post Frontiers! Evan has said that Frontiers takes place shortly before issue #68 now, but it's clear this wasn't the original intention. She's said in the past that they would make it very clear once the comic was after Frontiers, but it seems SEGA has moved things around. She mentioned that she and Ian tried to explain why having an editor's note in #84 could help explain this, but they were told to remove it depite that.
So this retroactive continuity now hurts both IDW and Frontiers. As it turns out, "I want to go it my own for a while." and "I want to share my love with the world, even if that takes us apart" really meant having an Extreme Gear tournament with Sonic, even though that wasn't the original intention for any of the writers I assume.
So this retroactive continuity now hurts both IDW and Frontiers. As it turns out, "I want to go it my own for a while." and "I want to share my love with the world, even if that takes us apart" really meant having an Extreme Gear tournament with Sonic, even though that wasn't the original intention for any of the writers I assume.
MysticMania
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I feel bad for the people working on Sonic, for the writers especially, because I know they'll get blamed for the decisions of a company that doesn't give a shit.
MysticMania
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I think SEGA or IDW might want the comic to be approachable on an issue to issue basis. Some problems though: Not how comics work ( especially physical, since you can never guarantee a store having 80+ individual issues of one run. ) and it's actively gutting the current characters and story arcs with pacing that's about as long lasting as Forces' run time. I know it's probably easier said than done, but if you're so concerned about a new reader not knowing what's happening that you're willing to hurt the comic to avoid that, just have a recap page at the beginning of every issue that details what happened in the previous one.
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Post Frontiers already?
TheStinkeer
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srry for the late ass reply but what are the arguments for it? I've been looking into the Shadow Gens stuff recently and the evolved shadow boost in comparison to Super is somewhat of a big part of it
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I mean, if I want to be really blunt, it doesnt really hurt continuity that much if Frontiers happened after IDW 68. Hell, its a huge improvement since we were on path of "mystery villain collects all the Emeralds... except he will lose them next time due to time skip and might have to collect them all again teehee" and I dunno, 68 instead of 84 seems less stupid tbh. Ig you do lose the feel of "Restoration building blowing up feels like good end to IDW arcs pre-Frontiers" but really, outside of Sage just appearing now, what specifically is broken by this chance?
MysticMania
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From what I understand, I think it's between #67 and #68 now, though wasn't meant to be at the time.
MysticMania
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Like I said in my comment earlier, one thing it breaks is the character dialogue in Frontiers. Tails' "I want to go it my own for a while." and Amy's "I want to share my love with the world, even if that takes us apart" now leads into having an Extreme Gear tournament in a team with Sonic, even though that wasn't the original intention of any of that.
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Ah yes, those lines that seemingly were written out of Japan script by games director.
Why did Sega even let them do those lines when they really didnt intend to side-line Tails, Knux & Amy from Sonic? :V
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... ahhhh ****, Amy, Tails, and Knuckles are gonna be the other playable characters in Frontiers 2
(R.I.P my hopes of Shadow, Blaze, and Silver, maybe even Eggman or Metal Sonic, being the other playable characters)
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Yeah, they made movesets for them, since Sega reuses stuff its a no brainer lol
Shadow is possible from Shadow Generations asset reuse, so maaaybe Silver or even Metal could be added for most story potential.
Blaze feels screwed up tho no way she gets added next.
Shadow is possible from Shadow Generations asset reuse, so maaaybe Silver or even Metal could be added for most story potential.
Blaze feels screwed up tho no way she gets added next.
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I will say it's more Ian and Evan's fault for being bad at planning ahead. Evan specifically.
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Technically this time it might be Sega for pushing forward post-Frontiers stuff faster than expected?
Although we were led to assume 84 is the start of post-Frontiers, but it suddenly became 68? Thats bit weird.
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At this point, continuity is a suggestion, and the answer to it is that it doesn't matter.
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I wouldn't say any of them are at fault; it's just how things are with a brand. I wouldn't say either Ian, Evan, or anyone in charge of continuity wants to make continuity problems, but there are limits to what they can do, and there are things more important than that to higher-ups.
It's very clear from previous answers that IDW's transition into a Post-Frontiers world was supposed to be something bigger, but then you can have stuff like "We want X to be promoted at Y, so do your thing so you can add Y and Z elements to the comics so they can promote it" and at that point, all they can do is do what they are asked and try to juggle the problems of adding something that wasn't planned at the start. Stuff like this happens all the time with cross-media. If the higher-ups want to promote something, it's hard to say no. Personally, I totally believe that originally the intent was to close all the major plot beats by the 100 issue and only tackle Frontiers stuff after it (In fact, maybe they can even keep part of the plans in the end result and we can notice stuff like "If Sage hadn't been added, this would have been the perfect spot to transition into Frontiers").
And even from the point of view of the higher-ups, it might not sound like a problem. There are many cogs in a brand's machine and continuity is just one of them, they might assume that brand synergy and having the readers recognize a character (like Sage) from something they want to promote (Especially if this is supposed to come before the announcement of the follow-up to Frontiers), then preparing the seeds for that is more important than creating a continuity mishap, and if they think it's better to have the new readers come without the need to care too much about past continuity (In the sense of text done just to solve continuity problems), they might as well say "no need, that would create more problems to us than it's worth, just accept it happened and move on".
I disagree with SEGA's stance, but I can understand why it happened. I truly hope this can change, as I don't think even a single line would have made any readers decide to stop reading just because of that.
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Sega and bad time management (especially with the Sonic franchise) has been a painful yet iconic pair thats been together since the 90s (it's one of the core reasons they don't make consoles anymore, in case anyone has forgotten). Until Sega's uproots certain stubborn long entrenched tendencies towards Sonic, I highly doubt things will change drastically in own lifetimes (minus a hard reboot or hostile takeover ofc).
The actual current IDW arc was a big nothing burger but it actually made me feel bad for those who wanted to see new characters, like we have Soleli and Luna yet they're basically side characters in their own debut, Shadow essentially has no narrative reason to be in this arc and naturally Shadow gets clowned upon (again) alongside the forced "tension" between him and Sonic, ugh!
Stuff like this is why most fans don't really care for IDW, despite being "canon" it's pretty inconsequential to the games and the normies will likely watch the movies to get into the franchise before buying the games and merch.
I guess Trip, Mighty, Ray, Honey, Eggman Nega, etc will inevitably have some new company in the grossly underutilised or "who" character club.
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I don't think Sega "pushed" for the comic to go post Frontiers. The comic starting right after Forces was Ian's idea.
ShakeResounding
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Well that's ******* lame lol.
Typical.
Another "these characters will develop!" moment turned into a dud.
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Devil Doom is a Super level transformation, as it could fight against Super Shadow in Shadow 05, Base Doom in Shadow Gens could manipulate/distort the Hyper Timeline, and an incomplete Shadow with the Doom Powers was able to fight against Metal Overlord and win, then Doom transformed into Devil Doom and then further into Neo Devil Doom, only to lose to Evolved Shadow
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Nah, sega is at fault for not caring at all about the plans of the writters
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Sega did pushed it and removed stuff that would make it be more sensible to long time readers, you don't need to defend them, they can and are wrong a lot of the time
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Sega probably doesnt want to give too much focus on continuinity cause it can force people to read more to understand stuff, which can be complicated. I kinda respect if Sega wants to keep stories self contained enough.
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Silver being in 3rd place with no actual major role is still a surprise to me. There are no plans for anything with him that are big and known (There are always "leaks" that they'll do something with him, but they never happen), so somehow he still being popular despite his limited use and inconsistencies is still surprising. Even more considering this is a Japanese poll, so the last time Silver was playable in a non-sports game/non-online game really was Sonic 06, as Rivals didn't even release there.
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I'm satisfied with Knuckles and Tails in the top five, Blaze just being in the top ten and zero Zeti anywhere. Kinda surprised Mephiles even made the list over Rouge, Vector and Big but I'm not complaining tho (Jet in the top ten was shocking, I guess rival/foil characters are really that popluar over there huh?).
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I talked about this before I think, but I feel like the writers/artists of IDW sometimes weirdly hype up certain parts of a comic that end up becoming complete nothing burgers. Like the whole Lunar thing. It was a decent comic and stuff, but it feels like there was way too much up for it only for it to just be a decent little subplot that doesn't really do anything to the overall narrative due to the aforementioned characters' whole dilemma being sorted out basically in the subplot they were introduced in and then, most likely, not going to be seen for a long time. I just don't truly understand why they do this. All it does is disappoint people it it'll just boil down to a nigh-monotonous episodic formula.
One thing I can understand is not introducing anyone too big or rocking the boat too much with the comics because then you'd get into problems Archie had with all of these huge arcs and unique characters, but none of it being used as material for games, which would make them less profitable if mainstream audiences don't actually see them in their games or bigger media cuz, let's be real, the main audience of Sonic doesn't read the comics. It would be better to introduce that stuff in a game first than a comic where people need context. Another reason why I kinda get them not introducing comic characters that much into the games.
IDW, in my opinion, is a very safe route for comics because their main bread and butter is the games. But then it gets sort of boring with the "nothing ever happens"-isms. But then you have outliers like Surge, who would have definitely benefited from being introduced to a real game, but the longevity of a character like that in a game? Not sure. Not only so, but many themes Surge has are ones that were already explored by the games with people like Shadow and Metal Sonic. I can understand that, I just think that it could have been done in a way to promote maybe the comics to get people more interested. Like, I can imagine a game with comic connection and a game itself having a special little minicomic inside of it for people to maybe give a look at with promotion at the end that could make people more aware that the series HAS comics. I think that'd be dope as hell, tbh.
One thing I can understand is not introducing anyone too big or rocking the boat too much with the comics because then you'd get into problems Archie had with all of these huge arcs and unique characters, but none of it being used as material for games, which would make them less profitable if mainstream audiences don't actually see them in their games or bigger media cuz, let's be real, the main audience of Sonic doesn't read the comics. It would be better to introduce that stuff in a game first than a comic where people need context. Another reason why I kinda get them not introducing comic characters that much into the games.
IDW, in my opinion, is a very safe route for comics because their main bread and butter is the games. But then it gets sort of boring with the "nothing ever happens"-isms. But then you have outliers like Surge, who would have definitely benefited from being introduced to a real game, but the longevity of a character like that in a game? Not sure. Not only so, but many themes Surge has are ones that were already explored by the games with people like Shadow and Metal Sonic. I can understand that, I just think that it could have been done in a way to promote maybe the comics to get people more interested. Like, I can imagine a game with comic connection and a game itself having a special little minicomic inside of it for people to maybe give a look at with promotion at the end that could make people more aware that the series HAS comics. I think that'd be dope as hell, tbh.
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I mean... think about it, he is psychic... he's cool
TheStinkeer
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There's also the whole Evolved Shadow in the future thing
I don't suppose base Doom creating the Doom Zone realm which he sustains and messing with the Hypertimeline can be used as support for at least a 3-B Time Eater? Been seeing if Time Eater works in a vacuum cause all he has rn is him consuming dimensional energy which might not connect to his other abilities and one-shotting Base Sonic
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one-shotting is subjective here. Don't we use that for characters that will deal instantly killing blows to another? He merely got knocked out in the main Generations game.
TheStinkeer
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Yeah I meant one-shot as in instantly knock him out
MysticMania
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A bit random, but I don't think decanonizing IDW would give the team any more freedom over it, because they were already having to follow guidelines before the comic was made canon, and I don't think there's evidence that those intensified after 2022. So if SEGA is going to make the comic try to follow the game canon anyways, I think it might as well be in that canon then.
ShakeResounding
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I agree to an extent, but it really harms them at times when they do constant mini-jumps forward in time.
Eggperial City in particular is an arc I really felt would have benefitted from having shown more of the aftermath; like seeing the dread of the Restoration upon hearing Eggman's plans were to essentially strip-mine the planet until it ALL became Eggperial City.
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