Sasori (Naruto) vs Yae Tenzen (Re:Zero) [10-3-0] [GRACE]

[Zabazab]

"Stronger" poison wouldn't be indexed as layers for the same reason that hotter fire is not indexed as layers.

 

[karo_senpaii]

"Stronger" poison wouldn't be indexed as layers for the same reason that hotter fire is not indexed as layers.

No. Hotter fire is just increase in temperature


I can give you examples of profiles with layered poison manipulation. Just coz you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't so

 

[Arkenis]

I can give you examples of profiles with layered poison manipulation. Just coz you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't so

Which ones

 

[Zabazab]

No. Hotter fire is just increase in temperature

And stronger poison is more concentrated/acts faster/brings about death differently.

Unless it's some kind of esoteric poison where it somehow ignores resistance despite being otherwise unchanged, a stronger poison would not be indexed as layered, and those pages where it is indexed as such would be wrong.

Yae herself carries around a particular cocktail of poisons that she made specifically to kill shinobi who are trained to resist poison, and it is not indexed as a layer of poison.

 

[Lilybitdun]

yeah it's even noted on her profile as just Greater but isn't layered

• Greater Poison Manipulation (Yae crafted a short sword with her own special jiranme mixture, a poison so toxic that a drop on the skin is deadly, and it can even kill those who are trained to resist poison<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Yae_Tenzen#cite_note-GCF-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a>)

I agree with what Zab is saying

 

[karo_senpaii]

Which ones

Check Meliodas profile

And stronger poison is more concentrated/acts faster/brings about death differently.

Unless it's some kind of esoteric poison where it somehow ignores resistance despite being otherwise unchanged, a stronger poison would not be indexed as layered, and those pages where it is indexed as such would be wrong.

Yae herself carries around a particular cocktail of poisons that she made specifically to kill shinobi who are trained to resist poison, and it is not indexed as a layer of poison.

No. You can have antibodies that's prevents poison from affecting you and then a layered poison would just completely ignore those antibodies.
It's not that complex

Also I don't see the relevance of bringing up yae. Sakura also isn't indexed. I'm just telling you what's supposed to be

 

[Arkenis]

Check Meliodas profile

Where's layered poison?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Where's layered poison?

It's listed as disease manipulation

 

[Arkenis]

It's listed as disease manipulation

This is basically aura/energy layers, its hard to say this is functionally only layered poison.

 

[karo_senpaii]

This is basically aura/energy layers, its hard to say this is functionally only layered poison.

I never claimed it was, even one of the layers for the poison manipulation in talking about (kurama) also has to do with aura and energy which is multifunctional. It still doesn't change the fact that it's still layered

 

[Arkenis]

I never claimed it was, even one of the layers for the poison manipulation in talking about (kurama) also has to do with aura and energy which is multifunctional. It still doesn't change the fact that it's still layered

I mean yeah but we weren't talking poison based energy, we were talking about poison.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I mean yeah but we weren't talking poison based energy, we were talking about poison.

It was part of what I was talking about. Pretty sure I mentioned poison manipulation and not just poison and talked about kurama chakra in the layer

 

[Nierre]

You cant layer poison.

Anyway I see she has a bit of a speed advantage so that definitely helps against the 100 puppets and her senses and overall skills seem to be good enough to combat him. What can she do though? Is she just a sword fighter? What are her abilities

 

[Lilybitdun]

You cant layer poison.

Anyway I see she has a bit of a speed advantage so that definitely helps against the 100 puppets and her senses and overall skills seem to be good enough to combat him. What can she do though? Is she just a sword fighter? What are her abilities

I'm what I see on her profile she fights mainly with steel threads which she can make explode

• Fire Manipulation & Explosion Manipulation (By kissing the Steel Thread Rings, Yae can have them ignite with an explosion of flames<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Yae_Tenzen#cite_note-A9C26-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a>)

 

[Kaydee1648]

Yeah poison can’t be layered

Moreover, layering should not be thought of as applying to abilities which intuitively can be overcome with magnitude, such as heat resistance or analytical prediction. For instance, it is not layered fire manipulation to burn someone with a heat source hotter than they can withstand.

Poison works with magnitude and constituents, for example, a honey badger can resist the toxin from a snake but dies to a lethal dosage. That’s not layering.

Also i’ve not seen any wincon from Yae to warrant a vote

 

[Lilybitdun]

Wait actually, does Yae have an answer to Sasori's Temporary Paralysis Technique helping him land a lethal hit/restrain her?

 

[Nierre]

I'm what I see on her profile she fights mainly with steel threads which she can make explode

I meaaaaan that's nice... I guess..

I'm not sure I'm convinced on her winning this..
Sasori has numerous of puppets, including himself with different abilities which would probably trip her up without prior knowledge, and he can also control his puppets even when "destroyed" as long as he has chakra threads connected to them. He's also damn near invincible thanks to his core, I don't see her recognizing the core as his weakness and destroying it, he also has a fuckton of chakra so stamina isn't an issue in this fight.

She's faster, her senses are good enough, and skills seem to be on par, good stamina and pain tolerance for Yae as well. Giving benefit of the doubt to Yae, poison probably won't work. However if worst comes to worst, Sasori can attach chakra strings to her body to make her trip up just slightly or make bigger movements to completely throw her off, or even just manipulate the battlefield by controlling debris or rocks/stone etc. which would help him gain control over the fight and the battlefield over time and gain a quick advantage with a stab to her vitals or just slowly wither her down. Not to mention the already massive LS advantage he seems to have. Her abilities from what I can tell don't seem potent nor dynamic enough to put Sasori down.


So I'll vote for Sasori here

 

[VortechsTG]

Wait actually, does Yae have an answer to Sasori's Temporary Paralysis Technique helping him land a lethal hit/restrain her?

Not really that we know of, no. These Naruto matchups always seem to go in the direction of this being too out of character to be anything more than an tie-breaker though.

 

[Zabazab]

I meaaaaan that's nice... I guess..

• Steel Thread Technique: This is Yae Tenzen's specialty, a rare shinobi technique of manipulating nigh-invisible threads, notorious for being so difficult that it has seen no users in centuries. Only the most gifted of geniuses are able to grasp the technique's fundamentals, let alone master it, as it places an absurd burden upon its wielder— using the technique on just one finger puts every muscle in one's body on the verge of cramping. Yae has mastered this technique with all 20 of her digits, fingers and toes, and her tongue, allowing her to wield the steel threads freely: she can slice them into others like blades, use them as chain-like restraints, weave threads into armor that can deflect swords, use the tension of the threads to form invisible traps that function as footholds, and even sew wounds shut. Yae has even refined this technique beyond what any past wielders were capable of, and became capable of performing a blindingly-fast steel thread iaido, something thought to be impossible with such fine and flexible weapons.

Yae is a specialist in many-on-one battles. Certainly fighting a hundred-odd opponents is something she'd rather avoid, but the versatility and range of her technique makes mass-killings quite effective. Many would be taken out without a chance to show their specialty, and those who do are unlikely to majorly slow her down given how adaptive she is.

The core probably won't trip her up since Yae has experience with opponents who don't die. Her strategy:

The man whose heart she had certainly gouged out hurled those words at her in the same tone. Even when faced with that abnormal situation, Yae’s body acted without delay, stripping him of his life for a second time.

Someone who would not die even when killed; this was not her first encounter against such an individual. There were a great number of bizarre and astonishing people in this world, and she had even fought against someone who had not just two, but three hearts. All she had needed to do was crush all three hearts for that person to properly die. The important thing was to just keep killing them until they died. —Arc 9 Chapter 51, "Yae Tenzen"

As for manipulating the battlefield, Yae is capable of the exact same thing with her own threads. Superhuman flexibility, body control, and steel thread shields & stitching makes it difficult to land a definitive blow on Yae. Her specialty of steel threads is also probably the one time where a LS disadvantage is helpful, as while she can neither restrain nor overpower Sasori, the tension of the threads results in Sasori cutting himself with his own strength.

 

[Nierre]

Im still not sure how she wins this though, he's going to able to read her moves while sending upwards of 100 puppets at her while also spamming Jutsu, he's doing this all while staying back avoiding any attacks she might throw at him, not only that but he wears a cloak that covers his core and his physiology anyway so she won't be able to discern his weakness unless she removes it herself, which will be hard for the reasons I've already stated.

I don't doubt she has experience with people who can't die conventionally, she's never fought a human puppet. He can move his core through his hundreds of puppets and he can reform his puppets back like they were brand new.

Her specialty of steel threads is also probably the one time where a LS disadvantage is helpful, as while she can neither restrain nor overpower Sasori, the tension of the threads results in Sasori cutting himself with his own strength.

he can reform himself but I mentioned LS because he can manipulate her body with chakra threads and yank her limbs just to mess her up quickly for a big damage blow.

 

[Kaydee1648]

sasori fra

 

[Gigi_4_life]

Without the iron sand, Sasori's only real way of winning this is to overwhelm her with his army of puppets, but she's notably agile, very skilled and can also essentially create a circle of flames by using the power of her rings on her threads like she did against Rem and Emilia. To add to this, when she destroys puppets, she could use their weapons with her threads like she did when she used all of Emilia and Al's swords to attack, so yeah I can't see her losing

She's also more than likely gonna be able to resist the poison, so there goes Sasori's trump card

As for Sasori's core and all that, the people above have already said it, but Yae is used to killing people like that so I don't think that will be a problem

All in all Yae probably takes this after a tough fight

 

[Pluto321]

Voting for Sasori based on points by @Nierre and others.

 

[Nierre]

To add to this, when she destroys puppets, she could use their weapons with her threads like she did when she used all of Emilia and Al's swords to attack, so yeah I can't see her losing

her using the swords will prove fatal because he can still manipulate the puppets even when destroyed. If she tries to pick up the sword he can just manipulate the broken puppet parts on the ground to pick up the swords and stab through her.

Sasori's only real way of winning this is to overwhelm her with his army of puppets, but she's notably agile, very skilled and can also essentially create a circle of flames by using the power of her rings on her threads like she did against Rem and Emilia

I think you're insanely underestimating how much 100 puppets and how skilled Sasori already is. Ninjas in Naruto are already insanely skilled with Sasori being one of the upper echelon of ninjas because he's part of the Akatsuki. Even Sakura who was trained by Tsunade occasionally needed help from Chiyo simply because she has ZERO experience fighting a puppet master with a million different options when it comes to attacking. Like I said, he can manipulate broken puppets, spam Jutsu, CONTROL THE OPPONENT if he so wishes, has far greater LS, etc etc. you're hardly engaging with any of the points that I've mentioned earlier.

As for Sasori's core and all that, the people above have already said it, but Yae is used to killing people like that so I don't think that will be a problem

She's never killed someone like him before this isn't an argument at all. Killing immortals is different from killing a puppet that can secretly move his heart between ONE HUNDRED Puppets without Sakura and Chiyo, both insanely skilled ninja, with the latter literally being his old sensei and the former being taught by Tsunade, noticing at first. He wears armor as well and has cloaks and can manipulate the entire environment to seamlessly transfer his core without her even noticing a thing. Her wincon here is so insanely unfeasible here I still haven't been convinced that she even wins here. What's her wincon exactly? fire and steel cords?? She can't even fully incapacitate him because he can reform himself and his puppets back with ease, he can still control broken puppets, none of these points that I've been bringing up has been debunked.

 

[VortechsTG]

I'm still just baffled by the suggestion that a genius to the extent that as a young child she could simply touch a weapon and instantly master using it as if she had been for a decade, which in this world far surpasses real world human limits, and who literally has information analysis and analytical prediction on her profile, the later of which is a basic ability who some of the least skilled combatants in the verse have to a lesser extent, would not be able to figure out he has a big weak spot because... it's hidden under a cloak and moving. Mind you, her literally having just seen "zombies" with weak spots the size of a coin hidden inside the body by the time she is introduced into the main story.

 

[Nierre]

I mean yeah he wears armor and a cloak how is she supposed to discern something she can't see? not only that but there's a big ass hurdle she needs to get through to even get him out of his armored shell, that being a fuckton of puppets that steel cords isn't going to be enough because even when destroyed he can reform them. And she's not the only character who's super agile and who was trained at a young age. Sasori was trained by Chiyo as a child and killed the Kazekage as a kid. He's not an easy target to kill. He was cooking Sakura who has Analytical Prediction as well lol having these skills arent enough if you can't get past his myriad of abilities, which you or anybody else havent really convinced me that she's able to do.

Like before she even SEES the core, she has to get through all his puppets, somehow completely destroy all 100 of them, which would be nigh impossible because he can still manipulate them, destroy his armored shell, remove his cloak (or get him to do it himself), somehow figure out that the core hosts his life force. which even Sakura wasn't able to figure out. It took Chiyo a master puppeteer who knows the art of puppetjutsu to know that. The after all of that, she has to take him down, which will be hard because he's very resilient and can break apart his body and reform it before she does any fatal damage. if she tries to stab his core he can break apart, form again to avoid it, he's also agile himself obviously because he's a Shinobi as well, and he can also split his core to his other puppets

 

[Nierre]

Like do I need to remind people that he can literally manipulate her body if he wishes?? She is at a massive. massive disadvantage here, he literally just turns her into a puppet

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Uhhhh, imma be that guy and just say that does she resist fear and madness (type 2) hax? If not she is getting killed basically instantly

 

[AThe1412]

Uhhhh, imma be that guy and just say that does she resist fear and madness (type 2) hax? If not she is getting killed basically instantly

Where do those even come from?

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Where do those even come from?

It’s a standard ability for all shinboi, but since sasori profile is outdated he doesn’t have any of the revamped abilities.

 

[Epiccheev]

Can the chakra strings be sensed/dodged?

 

[Nierre]

they get attached by touch, so even blocking his puppets or any kunai/shuriken, it'll attach to her.

No they cannot be sensed. When Chiyo utilized it she used the tiniest amount of chakra to keep it invisible so Sasori wasn't able to sense it, he only found out she did it because she had taught him everything she knows so he figured out the technique because he also knows the technique. Even Sakura is shown surprise when he figures it out.

 

[Epiccheev]

Yeah, Sasori has a very good "i win" button here with that then.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Voting for Sasori for Neirs arguments

 

[Trihexa102]

Sasori for FRA

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Sasori FRA

 

[Kaydee1648]

We hit grace on Trihexa’s vote

 

[Lilybitdun]

ah damn it fear hax, the ruiner of matchups, strikes again

guess I'll have to change my vote to Sasori since she can't do anything against that

 

[VortechsTG]

ah damn it fear hax, the ruiner of matchups, strikes again

guess I'll have to change my vote to Sasori since she can't do anything against that

No, she can. That shouldn't be a problem. Though I must admit, if his chakra strings are hidden alongside other attacks they would be hard to notice, so that's a problem. But they still would have to touch her, right? That would be the hard part.

 

[Lilybitdun]

No, she can. That shouldn't be a problem.

Why wouldn't it be?