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ALASTOR WAS TORTURING THEM DECADES BEFORE HE HAD ANGELIC WEAPONS.
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Hazbin Hotel Discussion Thread
- Thread starter WeeklyBattles
- Start date
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,615
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Angelic Weapons only became available in the 7 years Alastor was missing ye
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Regardless it doesn't change how much theory crafting it is, there's a bunch of ways this can be interpreted with what we have and it's only the absolute most generous reading that results in anything notable being changed.
DarkLock92
He/Him- 1,477
- 1,023
Indeed.
While I personally believe angel regeneration is tied to their mental state (Vaggie hated herself for being an Exorcist angel but regrew her wings precisely at the end of a song about choosing to fight for love instead of hate, and I believe Lute hates herself for letting Adam die, and is not allowing her arm to heal to remind herself of what she lost), that's just my personal head canon, and there is not yet enough evidence to prove that's actually true.
It sucks but that's just how it is until we get more info.
ShionAH
He/Him- 20,845
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I do wanna mention Angelic weapons don’t just “destroy” the soul, they erase it completely
So you COULD maybe argue Sinners can stay alive even when their soul is broken and destroyed and that they only die if its ERASED.
I do agree Winners should have Sinner Immortality
I do wanna question how we can say heavenborn Angel’s don’t have regeneration when even the weaker ones like Vaggie can heal their wings with enough motivation
So you COULD maybe argue Sinners can stay alive even when their soul is broken and destroyed and that they only die if its ERASED.
I do agree Winners should have Sinner Immortality
I do wanna question how we can say heavenborn Angel’s don’t have regeneration when even the weaker ones like Vaggie can heal their wings with enough motivation
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This
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We aren't saying they don't have any regeneration, just that its not combat applicable due to how long it took to accomplish it + it requiring rather specific circumstances. The likelihood of an angel actually accomplishing this mid-fight is absurdly low
ShionAH
He/Him- 20,845
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For exorcist angels, sure! I agree. What bothers me is that we don’t assume stronger Angels heal faster when the same logic applies in Hell
I guess its bad that the character who heals fast on screen is Adam (a winner) so we dont really have proof but Idk feels weird that Winners are harder to kill than Seraphims when Sinners are easier to kill than Goetia/Sins
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im gonna be deadass, we don't even have evidence of that. We don't even assume the Goetia have a superior regeneration to Sinners, in fact Sinners are listed with SUPERIOR regeneration to them. This logic that being higher up in the hierarchy grants a superior regeneration doesn't exist as far as I know.
Hell if I'm being extra pedantic, the examples listed for Stolas and Andrealphus are referring to Sinners so they shouldn't be counted anyways unless they have an example to replace with (with the wording of their profiles, even the imps would have that level of regen)
I honestly dont think it's that weird, Sinners and Winners just run on their own rules seperate from the naturally born heaven and hell citizens. The only example that we know of rn that implies a hierarchy shift is the one quote (that we lack) where Lucifer and Charlie are immune to the angelic weapons negating their immortality and need to be killed by a higher ranking angel. But even with the kindest of interpretations that doesnt grant any notable regen buffs from ones position but instead just layers of resistance and resistance negation (with literally no profile having either rn since we dont have anyone above Lucifer's position)
DarkLock92
He/Him- 1,477
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Andre healed from Stolas's beatdown and Loona biting his throat.
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BTW we should remove Regen and Regen negation from Adam's profile. For being an animation Error and having an anti-feat respectively.
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I'm not checking to see but their current profiles list them with Mid regen so I'm pretty sure that should be downgraded. Doesn't change any point about a lack of evidence for higher position = higher regen. All the good stuff comes from Sinners and amped up Sinners (Overlords)
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We are ragebaiting Shion out of VSBW again with this one…
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Im fine with him keeping it but swapping it with just him outright killing Pentious.
What we should remove is that fraudulent charisma feat! Bro wasn't voted for the biggest D, he was voted THE biggest D. Outright anti-feat I say alongside its unreliable narrator
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I am beyond giving an FDA-Certified ****...
Sorry, I meant RESISTANCE to Regeneration Negation. If he truly resisted Angelic Weapon effects his ass wouldn't have died to them
YesssWhat we should remove is that fraudulent charisma feat! Bro wasn't voted for the biggest D, he was voted THE biggest D. Outright anti-feat I say alongside its unreliable narrator
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Ooooh resistance to it, well uh let's check the footage here
Yeah looks dead to me
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Nah it’s just Niffty having layered Regeneration Negation cuz she’s goatedOoooh resistance to it, well uh let's check the footage here
Yeah looks dead to me
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Man I love infinitly stacking layers.
Angelic Steel < Adam < Niffty's Angelic Steel Knife = Angelic Steel < Adam < Nifft-
ShionAH
He/Him- 20,845
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Andre heals in literal moments?
Uh **** no? He resists Regeneration Negation because he healed Angelic Weapons that should stop Healing, we know Angelic Weapons erase the soul and kill you when they are lethal hits.
Alastor got slashed and he survived but couldn't heal, Adam got stabbed and he survived but could heal. Adam got stabbed and he died so his soul was erased.
He only resists the regeneration negation since he can heal, doesn't mean he can heal from the lethal soul erasure part.
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The regen he actually has isn't even Mid, Sinners are at Low-High
ShionAH
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Which is dumb as ****
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Would be a true shame if Adam "Regenerating" was probably an animation error like another wound in the fight
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ShionAH
He/Him- 20,845
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I know I forgot to make the Goetia and Sins Low-High, my bad
Fortunately for me you cannot show me a SINGLE instance of Adam's wound appearing again! Yay!
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,615
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Goetia are definitely intended to have the same immortality as Sinners, ya know with the whole "Only Angelic Weapons can kill them," especially with their far weaker physicals and lower Hellborn and Sinners having access to all kinds of explosives.
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Its only dumb is there's evidence to prove otherwise. Goetia run on their own rules and their current reasoning don't even make sense. With what actual evidence we have they'd have worse regeneration than the current standard.
Yall would need actual proof that the hierarchy works in such a way that being higher up means that you have superior regeneration. Even under the assumption a Goetia's is quicker that wouldn't be equivalent to it being more potent
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And they got no ******' proof of regen
And Fortunately for me, wounds have a tendency to disappear unless they're plot relevant in this fight
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The show 'intends' a lot of things but has issues across the board. Im not opposed to the Goetia having their own list of immortality but without something to actually push towards a direct comparison we can only at best give them a discount version of the Sinner's immortality.
ShionAH
He/Him- 20,845
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They are immortal to non angelic stuff like sinners, dont say they dont regenerate lol.
Irrelevant, unless you provide me a single instance of Adam's wound reappearing there is no argument to be made here. you know the whole "we need proof! no speculation allowed!" you guys have been pulling for so long.
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I'd like to see the statement, y'know!
Proving sins regenerate, or that you can digest a Goetia and they'll come back.
Okay, Lute, keep trying to suck Adam's tiny dick when his ass really shouldn't get some of his PnA...
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,615
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Goetia have displayed more on-screen regen than Sinners have? Hell, the same logic that gives Sinners Low-High ("They're immortal so eating them wouldn't kill them") should also apply to the very much immortal Goetia?
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Alastor was slashed across the torso by an Angelic axe and only has a smaller wound on the middle of his chest left over from the experience. Val instant heals impalement through the chest.
The Alastor feat is better than anything Goetias have shown, and Val got stabbed through the chest, and all of his organs. No the **** they don't.
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Again its the "speed vs potency" argument, Goetia might be faster but that doesnt act as direct proof that they can come back from higher end destruction. We need an actual comparison point to get them to scale off one another
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Hell in some cases they aren't even faster, see the Val example.
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Honestly if yall find a single statement saying they are harder to kill than Sinners or something I'm fine with it. My literal only criteria is finding something that actually compares the two cause right now we don't
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also Val got his shirt cut off...WHO IS ACTUALLY HIS WINGS
ShionAH
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Helluva Boss S1 EP5 - "You are aware this type of weapon can kill- demon royalty."
Helluva Boss S2 EP4 - "Oh shit... am I in danger right now?"
Helluva Boss S2 EP4 - "Wouldn't a holy bullet have sufficed"
Helluva Boss S2 EP4 - "He can get hurt?"
Helluva Boss S2 EP4 - "You wouldn't be seeing anymore once I gouges them out"
Its PRETTY clear that you kinda need Holy weapons to kill them and bypass their healing, especially when we saw them instantly regenerate normal physical damage. I am sure there are more statements I missed.
ShionAH
He/Him- 20,845
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We dont even ******* have a statement that SINNERS are immortal, it comes from a livestream. Why the **** are we asking for DIRECT statements in a show that has NEVER EVER given us direct statements about ANY of the mechanics.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,615
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Loona ripped Andrealphus' throat off and he was fine seconds later and Blitz regularly stabs and bear traps Stolas, and still thought he was completely incapable of being hurt?
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Shion, yes, it negs their regen. Which is like High-low to Low-Mid. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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