Reality Quest CRT (New Key, Abilities and Perception Speed) *Accepted*

[DeltaStriker22]

Terminology:
The Great Body is translated as The Extraordinary Body in the official translations (Source: Ch 132) and so it's name should be changed.

Abilities:
High Tier Abilities:

• Brawling Skill (All characters at this level even if they possess no martial arts experience are exceptionally gifted fighters)
  • Analytical Prediction (The Old Representatives who are slower than Dowan with Boosters active were able to react to him despite the speed disadvantage by predicting his movements. Dae Bujin caught Dowan by predicting his movements and stated that XXX could have done the same. Gong-Cheol predicted that Dowan would attack the weak on his back and dodged his attack)
• Limited Illusion Creation (Se-Hee made Dowan hallucinate his death with his killing intent and the other high tiers should be able to do the same)

The Extraordinary Body:

• Limited Information Analysis (Wielders of the Extraordinary Body can instinctively tell if their opponent possesses the Extraordinary Body or not by clashing with them)
• Superior Shockwave Creation (The shockwaves created by those who possess the Extraordinary Body are far stronger than other high tiers such as Gong-Cheol destroying a door and Dowan destroying glass)

The Extreme Body:

• Limited Information Analysis (Wielders of the Extreme Body can instinctively tell if their opponent possesses the Extraordinary Body or not by clashing with them)

Choi Sun-Jae:

• Speed Amplification (via Speed Technique; A technique that massively boosts speed for short bursts. The technique makes user so fast that they can perception blitz other characters.) Temporary name until the series gives us one.

Jung Seok-Yung:

• Speed Amplification (via Speed Technique; A technique that massively boosts speed for short bursts. The technique makes user so fast that they can perception blitz other characters.)

New Key:
Dowan Ha Extraordinary Body Key:

• Tier: At least 8-C, higher with Skills
• Attack Potency: At least Building Level (Performed this feat), higher with Skills
• Speed: At least Subsonic, possibly Subsonic+ (Scales far above this feat. Is stated to be faster than his previous key with boosters which is a 5x multiplier to this feat which is 290.3 m/s. Dowan was shocked by how fast he was able to move after unlocking the Extraordinary Body, confirming the artist statement.) likely far higher, higher with Skills, possibly Supersonic up to Supersonic+ with Boosters (Boosters being a possible 5x speed multiplier increasing his speed to 830 m/s up to 1,451.5 m/s)
• Lifting Strength: At least Class M (Far stronger than before) likely far higher, even higher with skills
• Striking Strength: At least Building Level (Same as AP), higher with Skills
• Durability: At least Building Level (Same as AP), higher with Skills
• Stamina: At least Superhuman (Far higher than before)

Shin Se-Hee Season 2 key:

• AP: At least Small Building Level, likely far higher (Comparable if not superior to Kang Se-Hoon and Jung Seok-Yung), likely even higher
• Dura: At least Small Building Level, likely far higher (Comparable if not superior to Kang Se-Hoon and Jung Seok-Yung), possibly Building Level (Tanked non-lethal hits from extraordinary body Dowan who can do this)
• Speed: At least Subsonic, likely far higher(Comparable if not superior to Kang Se-Hoon and Jung Seok-Yung), even higher with the Speed Technique
• LS: At least Class M, likely far higher

Abilities:

• Combat Genius (Possesses natural instincts that let him fight with fighters like Dowan Ha without having any combat training)
  • Weapon Mastery (Can skillfully use a knife)
  • Speed Amplification (via Speed Technique)
• High Tier Abilities (Should scale to the old reps)

Notable Techniques:

• Speed Technique: A technique he learned from Choi Sun-Jae that massively boosts speed for short bursts. The technique makes user so fast that they can perception blitz other characters.

Perception Speed:
This section is to determine the perception speed for characters so it can be used in calculations.
In Reality Quest, characters start reaching transonic speeds from very early on in the series and the characters at this point in the series are drastically faster so all characters in or above high-low tier in the scaling should have a perception speed of: 0.08 seconds (Baseline Superhuman).

Boosters is a possible 5x speed multiplier. The skill doesn’t just increase combat and travel speed but also increases perception speed.
By using boosters Dowan’s perception speed increases from 0.08 seconds to possibly 0.016 seconds (Subsonic).

At the moment boosters is considered a ‘possible’ 5x boost so the 0.016 seconds perception speed isn’t the definitive value that can be used in calculations but what is certain is that using boosters massively increases Dowan’s perception speed.

So, For calculations where Dowan gets blitzed with boosters active his perception speed should be considered to be 0.0291 seconds (High-end Superhuman).
This should also be the base perception speed of base Extraordinary Body key Dowan (Dowan was shocked by how fast he was able to move after unlocking the Extraordinary Body, confirming the artist statement. Was able to perceive crossbow bolts which are subsonic well enough to be able to catch several of them easily) and the characters who scale higher than him.

 

[Pettam33]

I just wanted to add to this by saying that Pre GB boost, Dowan was also fighting, reacting and overcoming someone like XXX (A great body holder) despite having the extreme body at the time. Arguably, he had possessed a reaction time of 0.08 seconds then (since he fought with XXX and surpassed him). Post GB is an improvement to everything, Dowan describes it as (living in water his entire life before, and he now feels light), and should have boosted him to 0.0291 seconds naturally as well.

 

[Pettam33]

I just wanted to add to this by saying that Pre GB boost, Dowan was also fighting, reacting and overcoming someone like XXX (A great body holder) despite having the extreme body at the time. Arguably, he had possessed a reaction time of 0.08 seconds then (since he fought with XXX and surpassed him). Post GB is an improvement to everything, Dowan describes it as (living in water his entire life before, and he now feels light), and should have boosted him to 0.0291 seconds naturally as well.

Looking back at this, I might have to do a calc for the crossbow feat regarding Dowan's reaction time. I think starting there should give us the true reaction times for GB users and high tiers that scale above Dowan. (Since he was surprised and shocked at how he even caught them).

 

[Mercury009]

I'm pretty sure I remember a staff/calc group calculation specifically talking about the Perception speed problem. If I recall correctly, using calced feats as proof of using lower timeframes fall under Calc stacking rules.

I'm 99% sure the result of that discussion was something along the lines of needing outright specified statements of said Perception speed, but I could be wrong. I'll try and find it and eventually edit this message if I find more clues.

Edit: Found it.

To stop using 0.029 seconds as a timeframe for blitzing people period, instead use the accepted human reaction times on our page. You can use a higher reaction time, but only if the character in question is meant to have higher reaction time in canon and not because of a calculation. If they have a higher canon reaction time you can use that.

The Perception you got from tbe calculation would automatically be invalidated or wouldn't be allowed to use to calculate other things. You still can try and use said feat to push for higher reaction times, but that's up to a moderator to approve at that point.

 

[Hayder0772]

Terminology:
The Great Body is translated as The Extraordinary Body in the official translations (Source: Ch 132) and so it's name should be changed.

Abilities:
High Tier Abilities:

• Analytical Prediction (The Old Representatives who are slower than Dowan with Boosters active were able to react to him despite the speed disadvantage by predicting his movements. Dae Bujin caught Dowan by predicting his movements and stated that XXX could have done the same. Gong-Cheol predicted that Dowan would attack the weak on his back and dodged his attack)

The Extraordinary Body:

• Limited Information Analysis (Wielders of the Extraordinary Body can instinctively tell if their opponent possesses the Extraordinary Body or not by clashing with them)
• Superior Shockwave Creation (The shockwaves created by those who possess the Extraordinary Body are far stronger than other high tiers such as Gong-Cheol destroying a door and Dowan destroying glass)

The Extreme Body:

• Limited Information Analysis (Wielders of the Extreme Body can instinctively tell if their opponent possesses the Extraordinary Body or not by clashing with them)

New Key:
Dowan Ha Extraordinary Body Key:

• Tier: At least 8-C, higher with Skills
• Attack Potency: At least Building Level (Performed this feat), higher with Skills
• Speed: At least Transonic, possibly Supersonic+ (Is stated to be faster than his previous key with boosters which is a 5x multiplier to this feat. Dowan was shocked by how fast he was able to move after unlocking the Extraordinary Body, confirming the artist statement.) likely far higher, higher with Skills, far higher possibly Supersonic+ up to Hypersonic+ with Boosters (1,708.49 m/s up to 8,542.45 m/s due to Boosters being a possible 5x speed multiplier)
• Lifting Strength: At least Class M (Far stronger than before) likely far higher, even higher with skills
• Striking Strength: At least Building Level (Same as AP), higher with Skills
• Durability: At least Building Level (Same as AP), higher with Skills
• Stamina: At least Superhuman (Far higher than before)

Perception Speed:
This section is to determine the perception speed for characters so it can be used in calculations.
In Reality Quest, characters start reaching transonic speeds from very early on in the series and the characters at this point in the series are drastically faster so all characters in or above high-low tier in the scaling should have a perception speed of: 0.08 seconds (Baseline Superhuman).

Boosters is a possible 5x speed multiplier. The skill doesn’t just increase combat and travel speed but also increases perception speed.
By using boosters Dowan’s perception speed increases from 0.08 seconds to possibly 0.016 seconds (Subsonic).

At the moment boosters is considered a ‘possible’ 5x boost so the 0.016 seconds perception speed isn’t the definitive value that can be used in calculations but what is certain is that using boosters massively increases Dowan’s perception speed.

So, For calculations where Dowan gets blitzed with boosters active his perception speed should be considered to be 0.0291 seconds (High-end Superhuman).
This should also be the base perception speed of base Extraordinary Body key Dowan (Dowan was shocked by how fast he was able to move after unlocking the Extraordinary Body, confirming the artist statement. Was able to perceive crossbow bolts which are subsonic well enough to be able to catch several of them easily) and the characters who scale higher than him.

I agree to everything

tho one thing i wanna add on is

I strongly remember that in the chapter for kang se-hoon extreme body training his teacher (Jonathan i think his name is) said that the extreme body is strictly superhuman (so the extreme body is superhuman by a statement from one of the strongest people in the series that we know off) and also we know that great body(or extraordinary body) is superior to the extreme body so that will make it also superhuman or higher so i think that will also help the perception speed things to be more correct imo

I will try to find the chapter if i can

Edit: i found the chapter it's chapter 164 and as i said jonthan states that the extreme body is superhuman and we know that the great body is equal or superior to it

Idk if that will help for perception speed things but i just wanted to add this on it

 

[BlackCat]

So in conclusion, you’re using the accepted 8-C calculation, right? If that’s the case, I’ll remove Viott’s calculation.

Overall, I agree, but I do have a question about the 5× multiplier for his base speed (the Transonic to Supersonic+ part). Why is a 5× multiplier applied there? As far as I know, the 5× multiplier usually comes from Boosters.

As for perception speed, I think it should be handled in a separate thread, because it’s quite complicated. If I remember correctly, the 0.0291 perception value is no longer used in calculations and has been replaced with 0.08 instead

 

[Viott]

I agree.

 

[Pettam33]

I'm pretty sure I remember a staff/calc group calculation specifically talking about the Perception speed problem. If I recall correctly, using calced feats as proof of using lower timeframes fall under Calc stacking rules.

I'm 99% sure the result of that discussion was something along the lines of needing outright specified statements of said Perception speed, but I could be wrong. I'll try and find it and eventually edit this message if I find more clues.

Edit: Found it.

The Perception you got from tbe calculation would automatically be invalidated or wouldn't be allowed to use to calculate other things. You still can try and use said feat to push for higher reaction times, but that's up to a moderator to approve at that point.

Ok, thank you for informing me about this!

 

[Pettam33]

I agree to everything

tho one thing i wanna add on is

I strongly remember that in the chapter for kang se-hoon extreme body training his teacher (Jonathan i think his name is) said that the extreme body is strictly superhuman (so the extreme body is superhuman by a statement from one of the strongest people in the series that we know off) and also we know that great body(or extraordinary body) is superior to the extreme body so that will make it also superhuman or higher so i think that will also help the perception speed things to be more correct imo

I will try to find the chapter if i can

This is true... If the Extreme body is already stated to be superhuman, then all the GB users should automatically have even higher time frames by nature. Honestly, this could be a case where the 0.0291 timeframe might be acceptable if it were possible, no?

 

[Pettam33]

I'm pretty sure I remember a staff/calc group calculation specifically talking about the Perception speed problem. If I recall correctly, using calced feats as proof of using lower timeframes fall under Calc stacking rules.

I'm 99% sure the result of that discussion was something along the lines of needing outright specified statements of said Perception speed, but I could be wrong. I'll try and find it and eventually edit this message if I find more clues.

Edit: Found it.

The Perception you got from the calculation would automatically be invalidated or wouldn't be allowed to use to calculate other things. You still can try and use said feat to push for higher reaction times, but that's up to a moderator to approve at that point.

Looking back at this now, I believe S2 Dowan, and the rest of extreme body users (like Jihan, Sehun Kang MAYBE Sehee) early on, should realistically fall within the 0.08 timeframe by this logic, at least depending on how early the statement of extreme body users being superhuman is, no? And, S2 to GB Dowan falling into the 0.0291 category by extension (Especially S2 Dowan to GB Dowan, since he took Dowan XXX who should have perceptions at 0.08 as of the statement of GB being a complete upgrade?)

EDIT: I think this should qualify us using the 0.0291 timeframe for GB users moving forwards.

 

[Pettam33]

So in conclusion, you’re using the accepted 8-C calculation, right? If that’s the case, I’ll remove Viott’s calculation.

Overall, I agree, but I do have a question about the 5× multiplier for his base speed (the Transonic to Supersonic+ part). Why is a 5× multiplier applied there? As far as I know, the 5× multiplier usually comes from Boosters.

As for perception speed, I think it should be handled in a separate thread, because it’s quite complicated. If I remember correctly, the 0.0291 perception value is no longer used in calculations and has been replaced with 0.08 instead

From my understanding, it can still be used; it just requires overwhelming evidence to justify it. And I think we do have that, based on the series itself and how early the "Extreme Body" statement was established. Jihan, for instance, would sit around 0.08, if not higher. Given that he’s been an Extreme Body user since roughly chapter 50-70, alongside Sehun Kang. Both are confirmed Extreme Body users. By extension, someone like Gong, who operates in the upper echelons of GB users (being much stronger than Bujin or even XXX, who are also GB users), should reasonably be around 0.0291 once GB is factored in (Since GB is just a superior superhuman physiology, and also being above the likes of extreme body wielder's naturally).

 

[CatLover313]

So in conclusion, you’re using the accepted 8-C calculation, right? If that’s the case, I’ll remove Viott’s calculation.

Overall, I agree, but I do have a question about the 5× multiplier for his base speed (the Transonic to Supersonic+ part). Why is a 5× multiplier applied there? As far as I know, the 5× multiplier usually comes from Boosters.

As for perception speed, I think it should be handled in a separate thread, because it’s quite complicated. If I remember correctly, the 0.0291 perception value is no longer used in calculations and has been replaced with 0.08 instead

I'm assuming you meant what the Extroardinary Body has a 5x multplier to base speed? The reason is because during the Cultist fight scene coupled with an Artist statement, Dowan says he's never felt this "light", which we can kind of infer that means his Extroardinary Body gives a bigger boost than his Season 2 Base Speed + Booster. Plus, the artist statement says that EB gives a bigger boost than Booster. However, the main evidence is the Cultist Scene, the artist statement is just supplementary. Though the final speed boost will still just be Possibly Supersonic+ in EB Base due to Booster still being a "Possibly 5x"

I'm pretty sure I remember a staff/calc group calculation specifically talking about the Perception speed problem. If I recall correctly, using calced feats as proof of using lower timeframes fall under Calc stacking rules.

I'm 99% sure the result of that discussion was something along the lines of needing outright specified statements of said Perception speed, but I could be wrong. I'll try and find it and eventually edit this message if I find more clues.

Edit: Found it.

The Perception you got from tbe calculation would automatically be invalidated or wouldn't be allowed to use to calculate other things. You still can try and use said feat to push for higher reaction times, but that's up to a moderator to approve at that point.

The others have said that the "Extreme Body is canonically called Superhuman" and an Extroardnary Body is also deemed to be above an Extreme Body. I feel like I remember a scene like that but I'm still trying to find it. However, I believe the logic is, if it's called Superhuman, and we can use Calc's to get to 0.016 second, would it be fair to use the high end of Superhuman for speed feats? I believe that's the logic going on.

 

[CatLover313]

Oh Yeah, since we already talked about it, put me in Agree

 

[Pettam33]

Terminology:
The Great Body is translated as The Extraordinary Body in the official translations (Source: Ch 132) and so it's name should be changed.

Abilities:
High Tier Abilities:

• Analytical Prediction (The Old Representatives who are slower than Dowan with Boosters active were able to react to him despite the speed disadvantage by predicting his movements. Dae Bujin caught Dowan by predicting his movements and stated that XXX could have done the same. Gong-Cheol predicted that Dowan would attack the weak on his back and dodged his attack)

The Extraordinary Body:

• Limited Information Analysis (Wielders of the Extraordinary Body can instinctively tell if their opponent possesses the Extraordinary Body or not by clashing with them)
• Superior Shockwave Creation (The shockwaves created by those who possess the Extraordinary Body are far stronger than other high tiers such as Gong-Cheol destroying a door and Dowan destroying glass)

The Extreme Body:

• Limited Information Analysis (Wielders of the Extreme Body can instinctively tell if their opponent possesses the Extraordinary Body or not by clashing with them)

New Key:
Dowan Ha Extraordinary Body Key:

• Tier: At least 8-C, higher with Skills
• Attack Potency: At least Building Level (Performed this feat), higher with Skills
• Speed: At least Transonic, possibly Supersonic+ (Is stated to be faster than his previous key with boosters which is a 5x multiplier to this feat. Dowan was shocked by how fast he was able to move after unlocking the Extraordinary Body, confirming the artist statement.) likely far higher, higher with Skills, far higher possibly Supersonic+ up to Hypersonic+ with Boosters (1,708.49 m/s up to 8,542.45 m/s due to Boosters being a possible 5x speed multiplier)
• Lifting Strength: At least Class M (Far stronger than before) likely far higher, even higher with skills
• Striking Strength: At least Building Level (Same as AP), higher with Skills
• Durability: At least Building Level (Same as AP), higher with Skills
• Stamina: At least Superhuman (Far higher than before)

Perception Speed:
This section is to determine the perception speed for characters so it can be used in calculations.
In Reality Quest, characters start reaching transonic speeds from very early on in the series and the characters at this point in the series are drastically faster so all characters in or above high-low tier in the scaling should have a perception speed of: 0.08 seconds (Baseline Superhuman).

Boosters is a possible 5x speed multiplier. The skill doesn’t just increase combat and travel speed but also increases perception speed.
By using boosters Dowan’s perception speed increases from 0.08 seconds to possibly 0.016 seconds (Subsonic).

At the moment boosters is considered a ‘possible’ 5x boost so the 0.016 seconds perception speed isn’t the definitive value that can be used in calculations but what is certain is that using boosters massively increases Dowan’s perception speed.

So, For calculations where Dowan gets blitzed with boosters active his perception speed should be considered to be 0.0291 seconds (High-end Superhuman).
This should also be the base perception speed of base Extraordinary Body key Dowan (Dowan was shocked by how fast he was able to move after unlocking the Extraordinary Body, confirming the artist statement. Was able to perceive crossbow bolts which are subsonic well enough to be able to catch several of them easily) and the characters who scale higher than him.

I agree to everything.

 

[Pettam33]

I'm assuming you meant what the Extroardinary Body has a 5x multplier to base speed? The reason is because during the Cultist fight scene coupled with an Artist statement, Dowan says he's never felt this "light", which we can kind of infer that means his Extroardinary Body gives a bigger boost than his Season 2 Base Speed + Booster. Plus, the artist statement says that EB gives a bigger boost than Booster. However, the main evidence is the Cultist Scene, the artist statement is just supplementary. Though the final speed boost will still just be Possibly Supersonic+ in EB Base due to Booster still being a "Possibly 5x"

The others have said that the "Extreme Body is canonically called Superhuman" and an Extroardnary Body is also deemed to be above an Extreme Body. I feel like I remember a scene like that but I'm still trying to find it. However, I believe the logic is, if it's called Superhuman, and we can use Calc's to get to 0.016 second, would it be fair to use the high end of Superhuman for speed feats? I believe that's the logic going on.

would that kind of calc be this?

 

[CatLover313]

would that kind of calc be this?

That wasn't really what I meant. I meant more so DeltaStriker's reasoning for Booster providing a 5x increase to perception which he had on his initial reasoning and Extroardinary body providing a greater boost than that

 

[Pettam33]

That wasn't really what I meant. I meant more so DeltaStriker's reasoning for Booster providing a 5x increase to perception which he had on his initial reasoning and Extroardinary body providing a greater boost than that

I see.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I'm an bit iffy on the other Extreme/Extraordinary body users having the 0.0219 s perception speed.
Even if two characters possess the same type of body there are still levels to it, for example: Jonathan and Se-Hoon both have the extreme body but Se-Hoon is far weaker than Jonathan.

And even if the extraordinary body is stated to be superhuman, there is no evidence that the other extraordinary body users are faster than boosters.
We know for a fact Dowan is because of the statements.

I think the old reps, Jihan, Se-Hoon and Jung Seok should still be 0.08 seconds.
And characters like Boosters/Extraordinary Body Dowan, Eun-Sung, Kim Cheong Wol, Ji Sung-Hyun and Choi Sun-Jae should scale to 0.0291 seconds.

 

[Pettam33]

I'm an bit iffy on the other Extreme/Extraordinary body users having the 0.0219 s perception speed.
Even if two characters possess the same type of body there are still levels to it, for example: Jonathan and Se-Hoon both have the extreme body but Se-Hoon is far weaker than Jonathan.

And even if the extraordinary body is stated to be superhuman, there is no evidence that the other extraordinary body users are faster than boosters.
We know for a fact Dowan is because of the statements.

I think the old reps, Jihan, Se-Hoon and Jung Seok should still be 0.08 seconds.
And characters like Boosters/Extraordinary Body Dowan, Eun-Sung, Kim Cheong Wol, Ji Sung-Hyun and Choi Sun-Jae should scale to 0.0291 seconds.

1. I agree with this point as well.

2. I’m also inclined to agree here. Characters like XXX would likely still fall around the 0.08 reaction-time range. Bujin did briefly react to Booster Dowan, which could suggest he could very well benefit from the boost here too, though it may also simply be a case of analytical prediction, as you mentioned earlier. I’m honestly unsure where to place him because of that ambiguity. As for Gong, I think he could reasonably be in the 0.0291 range too, though I can see arguments going either way. That said, I lean toward him reaching that level, particularly given how he dominated Dowan despite holding back most of the fight.

3. I agree with this overall. I did want to ask, though, where you would place characters like Jonathan and Gramps. Even though they sit at opposite ends of the spectrum (Within the series), the narrative seems to actually imply that they’re either equal, or at least very close in capability.

 

[CatLover313]

I'm an bit iffy on the other Extreme/Extraordinary body users having the 0.0219 s perception speed.
Even if two characters possess the same type of body there are still levels to it, for example: Jonathan and Se-Hoon both have the extreme body but Se-Hoon is far weaker than Jonathan.

And even if the extraordinary body is stated to be superhuman, there is no evidence that the other extraordinary body users are faster than boosters.
We know for a fact Dowan is because of the statements.

I think the old reps, Jihan, Se-Hoon and Jung Seok should still be 0.08 seconds.
And characters like Boosters/Extraordinary Body Dowan, Eun-Sung, Kim Cheong Wol, Ji Sung-Hyun and Choi Sun-Jae should scale to 0.0291 seconds.

Oh, I didn’t realize the 0.0291 s perception speed was just for EB Dowan and not other Extreme/Extroardinary Body users. Yeah, I actually agree, feel like it’s safer just to stick with that speed for Dowan as there’s no multiple step scaling needed to prove it.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

3. I agree with this overall. I did want to ask, though, where you would place characters like Jonathan and Gramps. Even though they sit at opposite ends of the spectrum (Within the series), the narrative seems to actually imply that they’re either equal, or at least very close in capability.

There are no feats to say where they scale or who is stronger of the two.
But narratively speaking, they should be far above any characters we've seen as they're masters of the things our current cast of characters is just starting to unlock in order to get stronger. I think they should scale above Sun-Jae.

 

[Pettam33]

There are no feats to say where they scale or who is stronger of the two.
But narratively speaking, they should be far above any characters we've seen as they're masters of the things our current cast of characters is just starting to unlock in order to get stronger. I think they should scale above Sun-Jae.

Alright.

 

[W3nnW]

I agree.

For perception, I think 0.0291 is possible, just requires more evidence.

 

[Pettam33]

I agree.

For perception, I think 0.0291 is possible, just requires more evidence.

Overall? Or for specific character/s? Dowan would be 0.291, at least from catching an arrow in GB, as well as for catching the 6 arrows at the same time. That should technically be grounds enough for him to be at that level, coupled with the artist's statement. Anyone who's above, or on his level should be treated the same way.

Ex reps on the other hand, can be considered 0.08, and the rest of the boramae members (fighters, like kang, and Jihan)

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

Yea, this is fine

 

[Pedonar]

Agree

 

[DeltaStriker22]

bump

 

[Pettam33]

BUMP

 

[DeltaStriker22]

bump

 

[Kakistan]

• Speed: At least Transonic, possibly Supersonic+ (Is stated to be faster than his previous key with boosters which is a 5x multiplier to this feat. Dowan was shocked by how fast he was able to move after unlocking the Extraordinary Body, confirming the artist statement.) likely far higher, higher with Skills, far higher possibly Supersonic+ up to Hypersonic+ with Boosters (1,708.49 m/s up to 8,542.45 m/s due to Boosters being a possible 5x speed multiplier)

I see a few issues here.

Base GB being faster than 3rd Growth Booster is fine, however, you shouldn't be applying the 5x onto the 2nd Growth's Falcon Revolve feat.

Falcon Revolve is shown to be faster than Booster as a speed boost against Geunjin, where Dowan's opponent could react to and block a Weapon Mastery+Booster barrage, but was blitzed by the Falcon Revolve sweep at his full power.

We don't even know base 3rd Growth's speed, nor is there even a calculation for 2nd Growth either.

Another problem is that Sunjae's feat is currently put at Transonic, meaning Dowan (who got blitzed) shouldn't be going past him without a speed amp.

The biggest problem is in the Cultist scene, Dowan isn't just surprised at his GB's new speed, he's dumbfounded that he was capable of catching it. Crossbow arrows move at around 300-500 feet per second (91-152 m/s) at their highest speed, though they wouldn't even be at full acceleration from that close. It basically locks pre-GB Dowan's reaction speed to below 91-152m/s.

 

[Mercury009]

Another problem is that Sunjae's feat is currently put at Transonic, meaning Dowan (who got blitzed) shouldn't be going past him without a speed amp.

We dont know his full speed. We know it took him X amount of speed as bare minimum to blitz him using current wiki standards. If a top tier gets a blitz calculation at transonic, does that meant the rest of the verse is capped at transonic? Since when?

The biggest problem is in the Cultist scene, Dowan isn't just surprised at his GB's new speed, he's dumbfounded that he was capable of catching it. Crossbow arrows move at around 300-500 feet per second (91-152 m/s) at their highest speed, though they wouldn't even be at full acceleration from that close. It basically locks pre-GB Dowan's reaction speed to below 91-152m/s.

Entirely wrong. He isnt surprised that he was capable of catching it. "How did I catch this?" is what he says word for word. The method used by the great body is what he's surprised about. Which is further reinforced in the next scene confirming how he is in fact moving like he's always been underwater. Again, the fact that he reacted to this does not lock the extraordinary body perception at that but only as a starting point.

 

[Pettam33]

I see a few issues here.

Base GB being faster than 3rd Growth Booster is fine, however, you shouldn't be applying the 5x onto the 2nd Growth's Falcon Revolve feat.

Falcon revolve is simply fundamentally different from booster in nature. Majority - If not all the time falcon revolve is utilized, it's in bursts that catches his opponents off guard because of the sudden motion of sweeping. We've seen this against Jihan as well, and not that provides a better amp

Falcon Revolve is shown to be faster than Booster as a speed boost against Geunjin, where Dowan's opponent could react to and block a Weapon Mastery+Booster barrage, but was blitzed by the Falcon Revolve sweep at his full power.

Like I stated above, it seems that way due to having short surprising bursts of speed. Regardless, I'm not sure if you've realized but Geunjin outstated Dowan, he was holding back. The barrage scene you spoke of when Dowan used booster, Geunjin stated Dowan stopped his attacks, and a panel or two after Dowan himself admitted Geunjin was also holding back, hence it's not an applicable scenario, but the moment Dowan started using booster, he always got behind behind Geunjin in pure speed rather than surprising his opponents. Unlike with Falcon revolve Dowan was kind enough to tell him he's there, the problem was that Geunjin couldn't do jack about it despite knowing. Either way, I believe I should state this here - Augmentative skills like Charge Shot and Booster only scale with whatever ap or speed values Dowan chooses to wield. Booster doesn't need Dowan to be at his maximum speed to be activated, it just multiplies his speed stats by 5x, or more times than what HE chooses to utilize.

(Conveniently you leave out the parts where Geunjin was under an adrenaline amp + using his fp yet Dowan still hasn't used booster to fend him off, in fact, he's better than Geunjin with the blade. Furthermore, Geunjin was out for blood, Dowan isn't. Two VERY different mindsets in a fight to the 'death'. The recent chapter tells us that Dowan lacks this drive, and it's implied to be holding him back by extension. So that's what? Dowan not using booster against an opponent that already out-stats him with adrenaline. Falcon revolve came in clutch because his opponent didn't expect it, just like the other times.)

We don't even know base 3rd Growth's speed, nor is there even a calculation for 2nd Growth either.

??? I'm not understanding you here... This isn't a good case for you... Whatever 2nd growth comes out to, 3rd growth is simply better, whatever 3rd growth comes out to, GB is better (But for GB we have an estimate to how much faster and stronger it is than 3rd growth Dowan). Each growth is an amp in all stats. It's just a pity we don't have better feats for each corresponding key for Dowan. For now, we'll have to use the numbers that come from 2nd growth Dowan. (Realistically it should be higher).

Another problem is that Sunjae's feat is currently put at Transonic, meaning Dowan (who got blitzed) shouldn't be going past him without a speed amp.

That's what WE calc it to using the standards we have... Sunjae could be moving at hypersonic speeds for all we know, BUT we have to use the methods given to us to get a value that seems works within the wiki and the context the scene gives us. Irrespective of this. It's not how this works. Before GB Dowan had the 0.8 tons AP upgrade, by your logic, he should've one shotted Sunjae in the recent chapter based on what we have for Sunjae PRE GB feat being 130 MJ. But, we don't cause that's now how scaling works in the thread. It isn't always so clear cut.

The biggest problem is in the Cultist scene, Dowan isn't just surprised at his GB's new speed, he's dumbfounded that he was capable of catching it. Crossbow arrows move at around 300-500 feet per second (91-152 m/s) at their highest speed, though they wouldn't even be at full acceleration from that close. It basically locks pre-GB Dowan's reaction speed to below 91-152m/s.

This is just being disingenuous. Dowan isn't used to his GB, and arguably still isn't. I believe he was more surprised that they were just pulling crossbows out at him. If I were in his shoes I'd be startled just as much. Despite what you think, Dowan isn't cold blooded and constantly on a war path who always has his guard up. He's just surprised that he caught that without actively trying to. 6 more comes at him, and he catches all 6 with one in his mouth. That doesn't exactly tell me bro locks at 90 - 150 m/s. it just tells me he can catch things that fast without actively needing to, or having to try. What would be a better example, would be if Dowan was struggling to catch them, or one or two managed to damage him despite actively trying. NEITHER happened.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I see a few issues here.

Base GB being faster than 3rd Growth Booster is fine, however, you shouldn't be applying the 5x onto the 2nd Growth's Falcon Revolve feat.

Falcon Revolve is shown to be faster than Booster as a speed boost against Geunjin, where Dowan's opponent could react to and block a Weapon Mastery+Booster barrage, but was blitzed by the Falcon Revolve sweep at his full power.

Weapon mastery is not a speed amp, it's a skill boost that also makes the weapon Dowan is using stronger.

There is no evidence Geunjin was able to block Dowan with boosters as all we see is him in a guard stance that protected his whole upper body, something you'd logically do in a situation where you do not know where the attack is gonna come from, this is supported by Dowan blitzing him just a few panels earlier proving he's far faster with boosters active.

The reason Geunjin wasn't sliced to pieces by that slash barrage despite being unable to block is because Dowan doesn't kill. He was aiming for Geunjin's sword to break it or disarm him, this is supported by Geunjin commenting on Dowan not having the intent to kill just a few panels later and Dowan's sword breaking a few chapters later because he'd been using it recklessly.

I don't agree with falcon revolve being faster than boosters unless there are statements that say otherwise.
The current scaling for Dowan's speed boosting skills is:
Blind Spot Strike <=? Multi-Strike Destruction <<< Falcon Revolve < Boosters

The biggest problem is in the Cultist scene, Dowan isn't just surprised at his GB's new speed, he's dumbfounded that he was capable of catching it. Crossbow arrows move at around 300-500 feet per second (91-152 m/s) at their highest speed, though they wouldn't even be at full acceleration from that close. It basically locks pre-GB Dowan's reaction speed to below 91-152m/s.

I agree with @Mercury009, Dowan wasn't shocked that he was able to catch the crossbow bolt, he was surprised at how he did it.
To be able to catch an arrow moving at subsonic speeds he needs to be able to perceive it well enough something he couldn't do in his earlier keys possibly even with boosters. Hence why this CRT is about increasing the perception speed of the verse.

Also, just because Dowan couldn't catch the arrow in his earlier keys doesn't mean he couldn't dodge it when he has done this in his previous key.
He is NOT capped at 91-152 m/s.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

bump

 

[Mercury009]

bump

 

[DeltaStriker22]

bump

 

[Mercury009]

bump

 

[Pedonar]

Bump

 

[BlackCat]

Excuse me, @DeltaStriker22 Could you tell me how many people have agreed so far (including my own vote)? And how many more votes are still needed for it to pass? Because right now, I see that the speed shown on the verse page and the scaling adjustments have not been updated yet.

 

[Mercury009]

The speed scaling change for S2 was in another thread made from CatLover I believe