- 8,702
- 3,173
Thats my words btw.
Here i thought another person will provide a good arguments, but it turns out to be just a casual player. Smh
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Genshin Low 2-C For Everyone Need To Go
- Thread starter Weaver261
- Start date
- Status
Here i thought another person will provide a good arguments, but it turns out to be just a casual player. Smh
- 71
- 76
Sigh...Thats my words btw.
Here i thought another person will provide a good arguments, but it turns out just a casual player. Smh
- 71
- 76
You really know your lore huh??Thats my words btw.
Here i thought another person will provide a good arguments, but it turns out to be just a casual player. Smh
- 8,702
- 3,173
- 71
- 76
No, I'm being sincere. I've read some books in genshin not all of them so I'd like to call myself a lore follower but after meeting you and your ego I'm starting to doubt that. Anyways I still don't agree with you and I'll watch you and this debate from the sidelines to see where this goes.?
Nice meeting ya
- 71
- 76
Dude chill I'm sure you'll be entertained one day
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
- 1,332
- Thread starter
- #48
Remax, I appreciate you voicing your opinion here but you aren't obligated to reply him. Sahl, just because you got the permission for this staff thread, doesn't mean you should go meaningless back and forth childish insults with Remax. Mind that this is a staff discussion. Sahl is already warned once. Mindful of that
- 71
- 76
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind
- 2,360
- 607
First, I would like to thank @Vietthai96 for allowing me to comment. Perhaps this will be my first and last comment on this CRT
This implies that Istaroth holds authority over the universe itself, because she is the Mother of 14 Billion Years, and those 14 billion years are the universe itself.
That is why Istaroth is referred to as time itself—the totality of all time, and the Mother of Time
“Because in ancient times, when the dragons ruled, the concept of time did not yet exist.”
Therefore, Istaroth is time on a universal scale, not merely on a single planet. As the Mother of 14 Billion Years, she is all of time itself—unborn, and yet giving birth to herself. The God Limir trailer also explains Istaroth’s true nature, portraying her as time itself.
Alright, that’s fine. Before moving on to Musica Mundana, it needs to be clarified first that the Primordial One is the supreme ruler of the heavens, not merely the ruler of a single planet.
You have not even presented "a single statement that says the Primordial One is only the ruler of Teyvat"
Musica Mundana is an analogy created by Remus when discussing the system of fate.
And then you claim that this is a wrong by relying on the narrative from this text.
In Mona’s latest quest, Barbeloth also explains that the world’s fate originates from the true stars of the universe, not from within the shell of the egg.
Therefore, fate of the world/musica mundana is not a fate that exists within the shell, but a fate that lies beyond the eggshell or the false sky. This directly refutes all of your claims that the world’s fate is confined to the inside of the eggshell.
So, regardless of all of that, I will say it once again: the existence of the Abyss within the universe has absolutely no connection to the authority of the Heavenly Principles, and therefore it does not refute anything.
Yeah, that’s probably all I have to say, i disagree with CRT. thank you
“Creating a planet does not necessarily mean having authority over only that one planet. That is merely an interpretation you are making. Therefore, creating a planet does not imply that one’s power is limited to that planet alone. unless you can clearly prove, with an explicit statement, that the Heavenly Principles govern only a single planet.”
Alright, let’s continue. I’ll get straight to the point. The OP doubts that Istaroth represents time on a universal scale. However, I am fairly certain that Istaroth is referred to as the Mother of 14 Billion Years. The CRT itself even states that Istaroth is the Mother of 14 Billion Years, yet the OP questions this text without providing a clear explanation. Now we need to understand what 14 billion years actually means. Fourteen billion years is the age of the universe itself. This is explained in the Lunar Arcanum text:
Though there is no meaning in this world within an eggshell,
The "fortune" we speak of is not some false metaphor,
In 14 billion "years" of darkness,
It is the sum of all that is destined to happen and all that never will.
Partings, encounters, and partings once more,
Birth, destruction, and birth yet again,
In the darkness of 93 billion "years" of light,
All existence holds meaning unknown to any,
Without which this universe would seem too solitary.
This is the "fortune" that divination cards speak of,
Or that which cannot be spoken.
The "Wheel of Fortune" turns ever onwards,
But there are things which are never forgotten,
Things that can never be destroyed.
At least, I am willing to believe so.
Just as you believe in reunion with her.
The "fortune" we speak of is not some false metaphor,
In 14 billion "years" of darkness,
It is the sum of all that is destined to happen and all that never will.
Partings, encounters, and partings once more,
Birth, destruction, and birth yet again,
In the darkness of 93 billion "years" of light,
All existence holds meaning unknown to any,
Without which this universe would seem too solitary.
This is the "fortune" that divination cards speak of,
Or that which cannot be spoken.
The "Wheel of Fortune" turns ever onwards,
But there are things which are never forgotten,
Things that can never be destroyed.
At least, I am willing to believe so.
Just as you believe in reunion with her.
This implies that Istaroth holds authority over the universe itself, because she is the Mother of 14 Billion Years, and those 14 billion years are the universe itself.
That is why Istaroth is referred to as time itself—the totality of all time, and the Mother of Time
Prayer Song IV: Laimelea, Mother of Time
(On the Winter Solstice, a cloth bearing the year's significant events is burned, and its ashes are gathered in a silver cup filled with pure water. The Archpriestess chants the Runo four times, and when the wind begins to stir, they anoint the Verdant Crest with the blessed mixture to honor the divinity.)
O pure and eternal Mother of Time, sovereign who was never born and who shall never die,
You create all and destroy all. You remember all and allow them to be forgotten.
You who in the moment of your birth, also gave birth to yourself, O supreme mother,
You are the one stillness within the endless flow, the one outsider in the sacred courtyard of the gods.
May you protect the four imprisoned moons. May you protect the four imprisoned moons.
You are the one outsider in the sacred courtyard of the gods, the one stillness within the endless flow.
O supreme mother, who in the moment of your own birth also gave birth to yourself,
You remember all and allow them to be forgotten. You create all and destroy all.
O sovereign who shall never die and who was never born, pure and eternal Mother of Time!
(Note from the Priestess Ehrnrooth: The meaning of this prayer remains obscure, and the ritual described herein contradicts established historical records. The Verdant Crest, a Divine Tree that appeared at the birth of the Moon Maiden five centuries ago, should not feature in any account of rituals predating that event. As no other known texts reference these rites, this is presumed to be a scribal error. Nevertheless, this passage has been preserved unaltered for the sake of textual fidelity.)
(On the Winter Solstice, a cloth bearing the year's significant events is burned, and its ashes are gathered in a silver cup filled with pure water. The Archpriestess chants the Runo four times, and when the wind begins to stir, they anoint the Verdant Crest with the blessed mixture to honor the divinity.)
O pure and eternal Mother of Time, sovereign who was never born and who shall never die,
You create all and destroy all. You remember all and allow them to be forgotten.
You who in the moment of your birth, also gave birth to yourself, O supreme mother,
You are the one stillness within the endless flow, the one outsider in the sacred courtyard of the gods.
May you protect the four imprisoned moons. May you protect the four imprisoned moons.
You are the one outsider in the sacred courtyard of the gods, the one stillness within the endless flow.
O supreme mother, who in the moment of your own birth also gave birth to yourself,
You remember all and allow them to be forgotten. You create all and destroy all.
O sovereign who shall never die and who was never born, pure and eternal Mother of Time!
(Note from the Priestess Ehrnrooth: The meaning of this prayer remains obscure, and the ritual described herein contradicts established historical records. The Verdant Crest, a Divine Tree that appeared at the birth of the Moon Maiden five centuries ago, should not feature in any account of rituals predating that event. As no other known texts reference these rites, this is presumed to be a scribal error. Nevertheless, this passage has been preserved unaltered for the sake of textual fidelity.)
“Because in ancient times, when the dragons ruled, the concept of time did not yet exist.”
An eyeless predator from deep within the Great Red Sand that uses sound and vibrations to seek out its prey.
Legend has it that in the ancient past before even the concept of time was created, these creatures thrived with their progenitors and offspring in a land of verdant grass and colossal trees, traversing through slick soil like fishes diving through the wet.
With the passage of eons, the gifts of heaven has long reduced the soils to sand, rendering a great many creatures extinct. This branch of their genus was able to survive by adapting more toward earth-based living, and became known as the "Wenut."
Some desert folk still mistakenly believe that sandworms are the final point of a quicksand eel's life cycle, likely due to superficial similarities between the species' behaviors.
Legend has it that in the ancient past before even the concept of time was created, these creatures thrived with their progenitors and offspring in a land of verdant grass and colossal trees, traversing through slick soil like fishes diving through the wet.
With the passage of eons, the gifts of heaven has long reduced the soils to sand, rendering a great many creatures extinct. This branch of their genus was able to survive by adapting more toward earth-based living, and became known as the "Wenut."
Some desert folk still mistakenly believe that sandworms are the final point of a quicksand eel's life cycle, likely due to superficial similarities between the species' behaviors.
Therefore, Istaroth is time on a universal scale, not merely on a single planet. As the Mother of 14 Billion Years, she is all of time itself—unborn, and yet giving birth to herself. The God Limir trailer also explains Istaroth’s true nature, portraying her as time itself.
Yeah, it seems there is a slight misunderstanding in how Genshin’s L2-C tier is being interpreted here. The core of the L2-C tier does not originate from Musica Mundana, but from Istaroth herself. I have already explained this at length in a previous CRT.
Alright, that’s fine. Before moving on to Musica Mundana, it needs to be clarified first that the Primordial One is the supreme ruler of the heavens, not merely the ruler of a single planet.
O supreme Lord of the Sky, merciless and indomitable, Father of All and Mother of the Gods,
We offer these sacrifices to appease your jealousy, lest your wrath blaze against the earth.
O capricious winged one, fierce king who lays waste to nations, god of the unyielding heart,
O god of gender unknowable, we plead that you turn from the mortal realm and the children of the farthest north.
You have shattered the order of the old laws and offered shelter to mortals, and yet ███ them.
You have shaken the ancient dwellings of the eternals, ███ed their wings, and laid waste to their ███.
You are the god of retribution, the vengeful deity. Your will is absolute beneath the moon, never to be disobeyed.
In heaven and on earth your blade ██, drinking dry the ██ of the wicked and the innocent.
O ██ and ██ king: before you, the gods are as mere mortals, and mortals, naught more than insects.
No one dares to speak your name, for you shall ██ all who know it.
But O pure and wrathful god, we humbly ask you to accept this offering.
May the Frost Moon shield us from the calamities you bring, and spare us the fate of eternal suffering.
We offer these sacrifices to appease your jealousy, lest your wrath blaze against the earth.
O capricious winged one, fierce king who lays waste to nations, god of the unyielding heart,
O god of gender unknowable, we plead that you turn from the mortal realm and the children of the farthest north.
You have shattered the order of the old laws and offered shelter to mortals, and yet ███ them.
You have shaken the ancient dwellings of the eternals, ███ed their wings, and laid waste to their ███.
You are the god of retribution, the vengeful deity. Your will is absolute beneath the moon, never to be disobeyed.
In heaven and on earth your blade ██, drinking dry the ██ of the wicked and the innocent.
O ██ and ██ king: before you, the gods are as mere mortals, and mortals, naught more than insects.
No one dares to speak your name, for you shall ██ all who know it.
But O pure and wrathful god, we humbly ask you to accept this offering.
May the Frost Moon shield us from the calamities you bring, and spare us the fate of eternal suffering.
Musica Mundana is an analogy created by Remus when discussing the system of fate.
The destruction of Musica Mundana would result in the destruction of the universe itself.”
A slender strand that somehow ended up entangled on your weapon while fighting the All-Devouring Narwhal.
In ancient Fontaine, some thought that Fortuna, which ruled the world, was woven from countless fibers, like the strings of a harp. Strings that resonate with the majestic music would bring happiness to all, while discord would destroy the fabric of the universe.
In ancient Fontaine, some thought that Fortuna, which ruled the world, was woven from countless fibers, like the strings of a harp. Strings that resonate with the majestic music would bring happiness to all, while discord would destroy the fabric of the universe.
However, you do not understand what Fortuna is that Narzissenkreuz considers a ‘mistake.’ The Fortuna referred to by Narzissenkreuz as an error is related to the rebirth of a civilization, not to the Musica Mundana system of fate, Even though René considers it something primitive, he also states that it is knowledge suitable for the World Formula he created.
Therefore, what René de Petrichor describes as ‘mistaken’ and ‘primitive’ is not the system of fate itself, but rather the cycle of birth and destruction of a civilization what is also referred to as Fortuna. Not all forms of Fortuna can be considered Musica Mundana.
For this reason, Narzissenkreuz sought to create a new universe, to defy the fate that had been predetermined by the Heavenly Principles.”
..Very interesting mechanism. With the right organ, consciousness can be transplanted...
...Has the knowledge to operate the mechanism. Understand the general idea after absorption that other than an experimental model, all operated on a simple logic tree...
...An interesting attempt, but the path he chose was regrettable. Rene would definitely think so...
...Jakob got emotional because he does not wish to oppose the Guillotin siblings...
...Declined, of course. Alain Guillotin said before leaving that "it seems that there's no going back." Alas, he is only a genius when it comes to machines. In all other things, he is but ordinary. He does not understand the future — he does not even realize that we hit the point of no return long ago. I, however, will create the future, and there will be a place for him and Mary-Ann Guillotin in it.
(Most of the content has dissolved, and is beyond comprehension.)
Enigmatic Page (XIII)
...Go to Elynas and carry out the above order together. Buy time.
Let us meet again in the new universe and the pure sea of tranquility.
...Has the knowledge to operate the mechanism. Understand the general idea after absorption that other than an experimental model, all operated on a simple logic tree...
...An interesting attempt, but the path he chose was regrettable. Rene would definitely think so...
...Jakob got emotional because he does not wish to oppose the Guillotin siblings...
...Declined, of course. Alain Guillotin said before leaving that "it seems that there's no going back." Alas, he is only a genius when it comes to machines. In all other things, he is but ordinary. He does not understand the future — he does not even realize that we hit the point of no return long ago. I, however, will create the future, and there will be a place for him and Mary-Ann Guillotin in it.
(Most of the content has dissolved, and is beyond comprehension.)
Enigmatic Page (XIII)
...Go to Elynas and carry out the above order together. Buy time.
Let us meet again in the new universe and the pure sea of tranquility.
From a logical standpoint, it would make little sense for Narzissenkreuz to attempt the creation of an entirely new universe merely to oppose the fate of a single planet. Therefore, we can infer that the World Formula devised by René does not describe a planet, but a new world—an entirely new universe. This serves as evidence that the concept of fate articulated through Musica Mundana genuinely exists.”
In Mona’s latest quest, Barbeloth also explains that the world’s fate originates from the true stars of the universe, not from within the shell of the egg.
Barbeloth: "Now, I'm sure you're curious as to the purpose of this letter. And to that, I say this... If you want to learn how to predict the fate of an entire kingdom, or even the entire world..."
Barbeloth: "Head to Sumeru and search for the gate to an underground kingdom. Once there, open the second letter."
Mona: Let me see here... Yep. It's this one.
Barbeloth: "As the ancient Sumeru saying goes: Rote knowledge bears no fruit, until it is watered with the showers of wisdom. With that in mind, there is a phenomenon in this land known as the 'Sign of Apaosha.'"
Barbeloth: "It is a celestial mark that burns in response to an all-too-ardent desire for the truth. In that sense, perhaps it's more fitting to call it a 'Sign of Truth' instead..." Barbeloth: The records of this ancient kingdom state there are several large subterranean lakes in Khaenri'ah, clear and calm as mirrors, whose surfaces reflect the true stars.
Barbeloth: "This is because the 'Sign of Truth' created in the water is able to bypass the false sky and connect to the outer universe."
Mona: I had no idea!
Barbeloth: "To observe the gravitational forces and influence of celestial bodies, one must be able to see past the false sky. Only by obtaining these cosmic parameters can one predict the fate of this world."
Barbeloth: "Now, my task for you is as follows: Open a 'Sign of Truth' in front of the gate to Khaenri'ah."
Barbeloth: "Head to Sumeru and search for the gate to an underground kingdom. Once there, open the second letter."
Mona: Let me see here... Yep. It's this one.
Barbeloth: "As the ancient Sumeru saying goes: Rote knowledge bears no fruit, until it is watered with the showers of wisdom. With that in mind, there is a phenomenon in this land known as the 'Sign of Apaosha.'"
Barbeloth: "It is a celestial mark that burns in response to an all-too-ardent desire for the truth. In that sense, perhaps it's more fitting to call it a 'Sign of Truth' instead..." Barbeloth: The records of this ancient kingdom state there are several large subterranean lakes in Khaenri'ah, clear and calm as mirrors, whose surfaces reflect the true stars.
Barbeloth: "This is because the 'Sign of Truth' created in the water is able to bypass the false sky and connect to the outer universe."
Mona: I had no idea!
Barbeloth: "To observe the gravitational forces and influence of celestial bodies, one must be able to see past the false sky. Only by obtaining these cosmic parameters can one predict the fate of this world."
Barbeloth: "Now, my task for you is as follows: Open a 'Sign of Truth' in front of the gate to Khaenri'ah."
I want to clarify one point, what exactly is the relationship between the Abyss existing beyond the eggshell and the authority of the Heavenly Principles? The Abyss should be recognized as entities originating outside the universe, natural enemies of the world and a cause of its destruction of universe, beings of emptiness born from the Void Realm. Even Apep states that only the power of the Abyss is capable of defeating the Heavenly Principles.
So, regardless of all of that, I will say it once again: the existence of the Abyss within the universe has absolutely no connection to the authority of the Heavenly Principles, and therefore it does not refute anything.
Yeah, that’s probably all I have to say, i disagree with CRT. thank you
Last edited:
- 8,702
- 3,173
For the staffs, before giving their evaluations/votes, please read this and this too. Since all of them directly refuted all of the OP's claims.
Please respect us as people who oppose this because we have explained the truth at length. It would be very unfair if you only focus on the OP.
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
- 1,332
- Thread starter
- #52
Never said so. And the same goes to your claim about ruling other planets indirectly becaues you can't assume that without any explicit statement.
Istaroth stuffs aren't explained the story yet. Considering that she is stated as mother of 14 billion years, she might be the time of the whole universe but let's not forget that she was created by Primordial One in the universe time where PO invaded Teyvat planet. You can assume she is given form by PO but this is just assumption and nothing more. We need more than that.
I don't need to since that's what the game is showing for now. If the game started explitcitly showing Primordial One creating the fate and the laws of the universe as objective fact (not from any faction's belief or out of context flowery language), I will yield.
I also never said the system of the fate is a mistaken belief or wrong. In fact, it's 100% evident that fate system exists. But not in the way Ancient Fontaine people described it.
You see, narzissenkreuz quest used the word "universe" a lot and it looks legit from a glance. But in fact, they are just talking about the planet this whole time.
Narzissenkreuz wants to save humanity from impending doomsday according to world formula. To do so, he needed a descender's like power, the one which rival the entire world. The descenders are described as such.
Note that, here it says create the world which is exactly what narzissenkreuz tried to do. The holy blade is also described as such
both here referenced the will to create and destroy. But the latter one used the word "universe". It's not like "world" cannot be "universe" but in genshin context, Descenders are specifically outsiders of the Teyvat planet who have enough will to rival that world.
And descenders aren't registered to the world tree of Teyvat.
But normal outsiders like Skirk aren't considered descender since she can't influence the fate of Teyvat planet.
Now that we all on the same page about Descenders, l will explain why Fontaine people using the word "universe" doesn't really mean the Universe in capital U.
After Narzissenkreuz was defeated, he said this.
You see? He said outside the universe but we all know by now that descenders are outsider of Teyvat but not everything from outside of Teyvat can be called a variable to World Formula since they can't influence the fate of this planet.
So yeah, everything fontaine people wrote about "universe" is questionable since they don't mean the Universe but rather the world they know all their life which is just Teyvat planet and its fake sky.
And my above explanations exactly debunked this. World Formula is just for a planet no matter how much they described it as universe.
Since Abyss came from void realm, it's alright to consider they are outside of universe. But since the universe is said to be in ruined by fate, it raise the question of Primordial One involvement in fate of the universe.
Also Hymns of the far north is a tricky book in lore since it's not quite accurate to the actual history. The forstmoon scions wrote that Nibelung left Teyvat planet to find and marry the voyager who left. But the new leaked artifact description now says Nibelung left because he wanted to find an answer to Abyss problem. I know leaks shouldn't be allowed to use but genshin item leak description rarely change and this is what I can think of right now.
It's likely referring to the time in Teyvat and not of the universe itself since Voyager is said to be meditating for tenfold millennia or tens of thousands of years which is a measurement of time in the context of the outside universe.
So yeah, it's nice to see new arguments but still you aren't debunking anything here.
- 8,702
- 3,173
No? Never did they ever said Nibelung left Teyvat because he wants to find the Voyager and marry her? What are u talking about, that's literally nowhere to be stated.
- 8,702
- 3,173
That is nowhere referring to the Voyager and the Voyager herself never be called thr daughter of stars and any similar names like that. Why would they called her to be like that anyway? They don't talk about the Voyager until Prayer Song XI.
- 6,587
- 6,423
My stance on this matter still the same as previous thread.
Basically this
If any of the mods watching this, please delete all the unnecessary post here.
Basically this
Also I've noticed @RemaxG1 , you got permission by ant, which should allow you to have 3 post here. You've already passed the limit. Plz do not comment here any further without permission.
If any of the mods watching this, please delete all the unnecessary post here.
- 8,702
- 3,173
And you have nothing to proof them not reliable anyway. Such a funny claim.
A book from the Descendants of Hyperboreans who knows shit about Celestia and the very ancient about Teyvat's history is not reliable he said
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
- 1,332
- Thread starter
- #59
Sahl, if you don't have anything substantive to say, don't clogg the thread by replying like this. I just proved why Hymns of the far north can be wrong. It's important approach this kind of books with skepticismAnd you have nothing to proof them not reliable anyway. Such a funny claim.
A book from the Descendants of Hyperboreans who knows shit about Celestia and the very ancient about Teyvat's history is not reliable he said
- 8,702
- 3,173
No you're not.
You're trying to say Nibelung was searching for the Voyager and marry her, while that was not even the case since the beginning to begin with, Even in the Hymns of the Far North. We don't know exactly why he was traveling the universe until that new artifact descriptions that gives us a hint.
Hymns of the Far North was written by Aila, literally the first moonchanter, who knows shit about the world's history. How can you be saying that's not reliable or can be wrong?
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
- 1,332
- Thread starter
- #61
Are you in denial stage now? I just gave your both CN and EN texts both explicitly stating and implying that Frost moon scions though Nibelung left the planet to marry Voyager which we later found out isn't the case. This precisely showcase how unreliable is Hymns of the far north. This will be my last reply with you.
- 8,702
- 3,173
First of buddy, That "Daughter of the Stars" was never implied to be Seutervoinen or the Voyager to begin with. Literally, He or She was never called to be like that or any other names that is similar to that.
Because that was not the case to begin with Lmao. Are u fr rn?
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
- 1,332
- Thread starter
- #63
Your ignorance and reading comprehension issues is so bad that I felt the need to explain it again. I just told u that it's not important whether Daughter of the stars is voyager or not. Even if it wasn't, Frost moon scions thought Nibelung left the planet to marry the girl.
I just told you this and how come you didn't read it?
- 8,702
- 3,173
Yeah, where did you proved that? That Nibelung one? That's obviously wrong and never the case to begin with. So wheres the part its not reliable again?
Saying that book is not reliable just because we dont know one context is just crazy, buddy. While the others is literally stating a factual.
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
- 1,332
- Thread starter
- #65
You can't be serious. For the last time, please stop this if you can't add anything substantive to the thread. I am not the one saying Nibelung left the planet to marry the daughter of the stars. Frost moon scions did. Your so called super reliable narrator first moonchanter Aila did. If you agree they are wrong, why should we take Hymns of the far north at face value?
Also, @Antvasima can you remove the permission for Sahl to reply here since if seems like they provided all they have for this thread as opposition and doing nothing but clogging the thread. Understand that I mean for the better by that.
- 8,702
- 3,173
.
And this guy is basically saying "please do not let him refute my arguments" by saying this ✌
Truly, a comedy debating with this guy.
I'm never clogging the thread, i was just replying to your message that is spreading false information which is what you do since the very beginning. This guy is so funny man.
And this guy is basically saying "please do not let him refute my arguments" by saying this ✌
Truly, a comedy debating with this guy.
Last edited:
- 71
- 76
Right right understood. Didn't know I had only a 3 post limit hereMy stance on this matter still the same as previous thread.
Basically this
Also I've noticed @RemaxG1 , you got permission by ant, which should allow you to have 3 post here. You've already passed the limit. Plz do not comment here any further without permission.
If any of the mods watching this, please delete all the unnecessary post here.
Last edited:
- 177,488
- 90,439
- 8,702
- 3,173
This is going to be my last responds to their Arguments, idc if its useless and i'm getting tired of this.
And you @Weaver261, you do not need to reply to this.
But first and foremost, i wanna express my disappointment.
It's really unfair for me that the staffs/moderators here are only focus to the OP and ignoring the opposite side (me), and just be saying "the OP seems okay, seems fine, i agree" without any reason and read everything. Even though i have proved everything that debunked all of the OP's claims. I need justice on this.
And what's funny is, OP literally said "I don't need to" after someone asked him "please provide an evidences from the game that blantantly said otherwise". This is like another level of coping and y'all letting ts pass? Smh. I can't even say anything else but remain silent in my utter disappointment at the people on this wiki who are so biased.
- None of the Reasons that the OP Provided ARE THE PRIMARY REASONS of why this verse got their Low 2-C to begin with. So agreeing to this is not gonna downgrade the rating because this is not the main reason of why they got their l2c.
- All of his arguments are trying to prove that their range are not universal, but that's already proved to be wrong by me.
- His Arguments are pure "Arguments from Belief" and Hypotheticals. Doesn't that not allowed in this wiki? Like cmon bro.
And what's funny is, OP literally said "I don't need to" after someone asked him "please provide an evidences from the game that blantantly said otherwise". This is like another level of coping and y'all letting ts pass? Smh. I can't even say anything else but remain silent in my utter disappointment at the people on this wiki who are so biased.
Let's debunk all of his arguments again in short:
Claim 1 : "Their laws or influence is not Universal"
Answer: Booommm he's wrong, i've already explained that they do here.
This is clearly how the Golden String or Musica Mundana governing the whole universe.
Everyone who read this carefully would know that Musica Mundana or the Golden String are governing the universe.
This is a very blantant scan that says the Heavenly Principles are the Laws of the Universe that give rise to the world of Teyvat with its content like the Seven Elements of the Mortal Realms.
Everyone who read this carefully would know that Musica Mundana or the Golden String are governing the universe.
To be more added, Teyvat is not first world that the Heavenly Principles created humans on. Teyvat is the new world they had chosen to create the humanity, this alone already proves that the Heavenly Principles have been created humans in another worlds.
Claim 2: "The Four Shades are only limited and bound to Teyvat"
Answer: He's wrong again. In the Volume 2 of the Spring of Hidden Jade, it is stated that even the False Sky couldn't stop the Ruler of Time Istaroth and her daughter Zibai.
The God's Limits trailer alone already proving it that the Four Shades' influences are not limited nor do they bound to Teyvat.
Claim 3: "Theres nothing but abyssal energies beyond Teyvat."
Answer: The existence of the Abyss in the universe has nothing to do with the Authority or Laws of the Heavenly Principles. So, theres no reasons to elaborate at length.
Claim 4: "But since the universe is said to be in ruined by fate, it raise the question of Primordial One involvement in fate of the universe."
Answer: You are expecting that the Heavenly Principles do something to the Universe's fate so its not get destroyed, are you? Yes you are. Hence your arguments is Argument from Belief or Hypotheticals, which basically saying something like this:
This is a common question from someone who doesn't know what is "PIS" and surely you know that. Go ask Hoyoverse why the Heavenly Principles didn't do anything. Just because they didn't do shit like you said, doesn't mean they're not allat.
And the Heavenly Principles laws will continue to resound throughout the universe until the end of all fates, which is until the end of the Universe.
The Heavenly Principles isn't a good person like you think — Like he wants to protect everything in the universe, No. In fact, they actually don't care about anything — even their creation which is Humans. By the fact that even Gods in their eyes as mere as humans, and humans are nothing more than insects.
Even in the new artifact lore, the Heavenly Principles will not allowed the gods to soften their hearts and helped any trifling suffering of the world.
Even they've been implying that the Heavenly Principles have been destroying civilizations even before the War of Funerary Flame. So they're not as good as you think that wants to protect anything from the destructions.
Claim 5: "Musica Mundana and Fortuna is concluded to be wrong by newgens"
Answer: Musica Mundana and Fortuna are the local concepts of the ancient Remurian to describe and explain how the Laws of the Heavenly Principles works by using "Music" as their Analogies.
Fortuna is not a false metaphor, as stated in Lunar Arcanum X: The Wheel of Fortune:
all things that destined to happen and never be happen throughout 93 billions of Light and 14 billions years of darkness (universe) are the summary of this "fortuna".
"Just because fate is mentioned, doesn't mean Fortuna is also mentioned"
Yeah until you find out that "Fortuna" or "Fortune" is literally Fate.
They've been using "Fortune" more often lately, like Paimon who wants Barbeloth to see her fate by saying "Why don't we ask her to see our fortunes" in Durin's Story Quest.
Claim 6: "Istaroth stuffs aren't explained the story yet. Considering that she is stated as mother of 14 billion years, she might be the time of the whole universe but let's not forget that she was created by Primordial One in the universe time where PO invaded Teyvat planet."
Answer: The Heavenly Principles and the Four Shades are one. Initially, the Heavenly Principles were alone, possessing five authorities: Reason, Life, Death, Space, and Time. Until they finally created their own shades and gave form to each of their authorities (except reason), which is the Four Shades we know today.
So, when we see the Four Shades, we indirectly see the Heavenly Principles themselves. And just because they were created when the Heavenly Principles invaded Teyvat doesn't mean they are bound and limited to Teyvat. Thats proving nothing.
That's it, i guess. If you have any questions, just ask.
I wanna get out of ts already.
Last edited:
Unqver
Username Only- 1,389
- 437
Permission from @Vietthai96
Teyvat is officially the universe of Genshin. The term "Teyvat" is used interconnectly to denote continents, planets but it is the universe of Genshin at its origin. Pointing this out because the OP completely ignored this fact.
Teyvat is officially the universe of Genshin. The term "Teyvat" is used interconnectly to denote continents, planets but it is the universe of Genshin at its origin. Pointing this out because the OP completely ignored this fact.
Last edited:
Weaver261
He/Him- 1,348
- 1,332
- Thread starter
- #74
@TWILIGHT-OP already announced their stance in this. They agreed to the downgrade so can I count their vote?
Unqver
Username Only- 1,389
- 437
Also to note just because they're on the supporters list doesn't mean they have expertise.
- 13,826
- 19,649
Please be respectful of the opinions of the members in this discussion, even if you disagree with them. Accusing others of bias over a disagreement is not the right way to handle things (Also given its staff thread one needs to be more careful while chosing their wording to not cause unnecessary back-n-forth)Content Moderator should be not having any rights to vote, or like.. their vote does not count. I think Ant tagged them just because they are in Genshin Supporters list.
(And I even doubt that Twilight-Op has any knowledge regarding of these stuffs or that he even read all of my arguments because he disagreed from the start and don't care whatever i said. I am so sorry, but he's basically biased.)
- 8,702
- 3,173
I ain't finna say nothing no more gng, enjoy this thread.
Sorry if there are any harsh or offensive words, but that's it from me i guess, i'm just gonna leave already and unwatched this.
Heres my arguments to evaluate.
vsbattles.com
vsbattles.com
Sorry if there are any harsh or offensive words, but that's it from me i guess, i'm just gonna leave already and unwatched this.
Heres my arguments to evaluate.
Genshin Low 2-C For Everyone Need To Go
Sigh this is getting nowhere to be honest and I feel like this is a waste of time. Thats my words btw. Here i thought another person will provide a good arguments, but it turns out to be just a casual player. Smh
Genshin Low 2-C For Everyone Need To Go
This thread is for this crt. https://vsbattles.com/threads/2-staff-need-genshin-low-2-c-downgrade.185554/ I had to make the downgrade thread because of the wrong upgrade that happened recently which upgrade all shades and dragon soverigns to Low 2-C. @Antvasima gave me the permission to...
- 34,686
- 42,046
I think Sahlwrld is making more sense here.
- Status
Similar threads
