Arifureta: Soul Acausality T1&4 (✔)

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What are souls ?
WN

To define Soul magic the expression of ‘magic that interfere with negative material possessed by living thing’ showed its true nature the most. To say it specifically, this magic could also interfere with things like energy inside the body that was magic power, heat, electricity, then thought, consciousness, memory. Although this magic was designated as ‘soul’, what Yue and others could exercise with this magic was interference at thought body more accurately. And then if someone could handle this magic perfectly, the caster could personally create consciousness and the like, they could configure it too. To put another way, it was possible to create artificial intelligence using magic.

LN

Spirit magic was magic that manipulated the incorporeal elements of sentient beings. In more concrete terms, itcould be used to manipulate the heat, electricity, and other matterless energy that circulated within a person’s body. That also included things like memories, thoughts, and consciousness. With enough skill, a spirit magic user could take those incorporeal elements, duplicate them, and create a new soul out of them. In other words, create another person.

So, it's clear that memory is an "element" of the soul.

---

Type 1:

Spoiler: Time travel

In "The Miraculous Meeting and The Phantasmagirical Adventure", the cast of both the main story and the prequel got teleported to a city outside space and time

Now, centuries or perhaps millennia later, the seal had been weakened to the point where it was nearly gone. If the lynchpin of the seal, the tower that the whale was fused with, broke, then the ancient evil horrors would regain their full strength and would start terrorizing people across all worlds and all times.

“Mister Whale’s been waiting this whole time for someone who can fix the seal to come! He said he needed really strong ‘Synergist-creators!’ ”

This abandoned capital didn’t actually exist anywhere within the real world. It had once stood where the sea they’d come from was, but the seal had transported it into a gap between dimensions. Basically, this whole space was a city-sized Treasure Trove.

And because the whale was also the product of that ancient civilization, it too possessed the power to transcendspace and time. However, its power had been greatly weakened, so it could only transport people here once, and only people who visited the particular stretch of sea the capital had once been on. Meaning this was the only chance anyone would ever have to repair this seal. Restoration magic wouldn’t be enough to do it because a lot of the damage to the seal was too old to be realistically recovered. It would take more mana than anyone in the world possessed. Which was why the whale had needed to bring in people who could analyze the seal and rebuild it from the ground up, namely Synergists who could use creation magic. Not only that, Synergists with more skill and mana than either Hajime or Oscar possessed individually.

“So it brought you and Oscar-oniisan together even though you’re from different times, Daddy! It made a miracle!”

Myu spread her arms wide, and for a moment Hajime wondered if this really was Myu. The glowing whale, which was apparently an avatar of sorts of the seal’s guardian, illuminated Myuwith its light. As if Myu was the oracle it had chosen to speak through. Everyone present couldn’t help but be awed by how dazzling Myu looked.

After she finished her story, Hajime took a deep breath. His mind was full of questions. Whether or not all thestuff about the seal was real, how it had managed to move Miledi and the others across time, as well as why they had to clean up someone else’s mess. SS Collection p259

They got Summoned from different points in time by a whale to a city outside space and time—>The whale return them to their original time and place before the summoning even happened. They don't remember the whale summoning them.(Because if it never happened)

The summoning:

Of course, Myu had no idea what the creature was, either. But it seemed she was sensing something from it. Something inside her was telling Myu that they couldn’t hurt it, and Hajime could tell from the earnest look in her eyes that she sincerely believed that. She just couldn’t express it in words. While Hajime was hesitating, their surroundings continued to transform. The whirlwind of mist sped up until they were surrounded by a wall of fog, making it look like they were in the eye of a storm. But the sky above them wasn’t clear, like it would be in a normal storm. It, too, was covered in swirling dense fog. But instead of sucking up the surrounding water, the fog hurricane was pushing it away, creating a crater in the ocean.

“Does it mean to drag us down to the bottom of the ocean?”

“It’s strange... I can sense mana from everything around us, both the fog and the water.”

“It’s strange... I can sense mana from everything around us, both the fog and the water.”

“Hajime-san, I think we’ll be okay! I’m not seeing any future where we die, at least!”

Hajime shot Yue a glance. Though he said nothing, it was a trivial task for her to read his thoughts, and she quickly created a teleportation portal to let everyone escape. But before she could send anyone through—

“Daddy! He’s calling for us! He wants us to save him!”

“Wh-What?”

Unfortunately, there wasn’t enough time to process that or ask Myu what she meant. Owooooooooooooooooooooo!The creature let out a howl. It wasn’t a threatening sound, though. In fact, it almost sounded melodic. A second later, Hajime and the others were surrounded by light, and their consciousness began to fade.

“Shi—” Yue shouted, panicking. The portal she’d created scattered to the four winds. SS Volume p215

They were sent before the summoning

But that didn’t seem right. Looking down at his watch, he noticed almost no time had passed since the last thing he remembered. Hajime slowly got to a sitting position, careful not to push Remia or Myu off.

“Are you guys okay? Does anyone else feel like something’s off?”

“You feel it too, Hajime?” Yue replied quietly.

“Mrrr... I feel weird too. Like we forgot something important.” SS Collection p273

But they still have a faint memory of the adventure and the new abilities and stats increase they gained from it remained.

Eventually, a giant whale surfaced from the depths of the glowing sea.

“Vwoooooooooooooooooooon!”

Its warm light was reminiscent of a sunny forest floor in early spring. Everyone instinctively knew they would be safe in its gentle embrace. Though it said no words, everyone could tell that the whale of light was immensely grateful to them.

“The Shimmering Ocean...” Hajime muttered quietly.

No one contradicted his assertion. As Hajime stared at the massive, hundred-meter long whale and its entourage of sea creatures, Hajime suddenly realized something.

“Is it just me, or do we suddenly have more mana than before?”

“Mmm? Ah, you’re right...” Yue muttered.

Shea, Tio, and Kaori all nodded as well. Suddenly Myu looked up at them and said, “That’s its way of saying thanks.”

A second later, Myu blinked in confusion, unsure why she’d said that.

“Umm, I think I also know a new way to use my Future Sight too now,” Shea said timidly.

“Mmm... Come to think of it, I understand how to control mana better now.”

Hajime closed his eyes for a second, analyzing his current state.

“Damn... I feel like I just leveled up my Synergist skills, too. I bet I can finish my airship and laser now.”

What the hell happened while we were asleep!? Hajime didn’t understand any of this. But while none of this made sense—

“But it feels like something really good happened! Like we met a bunch of really cool people!” Myu shouted happily. Hajime and the others exchanged glances, then smiled in agreement to each other.


“O-kun! Nacchan! Meru-nee! I dunno what happened, but I feel really happy all of a sudden!”

“Yeah, I know what you mean. I feel like I got a really cheeky disciple.”

“Indeed, I feel good.”

“I feel like I met a new angel.”

Far in the past, a group of four stood in the same place, watching the exact same scene. Of course, Hajime and the others had no way of knowing that. But they didn’t need to, so it was fine. SS Collection p274

They don't remember this event, because the whale sent back in time before it came into contact with them. That's why they couldn't indetify him.

Spoiler: Soul and Time

Soul is fundamental aspect of existence and has shown on multiple instances being acausal from the effect of Restoration Magic.

The true nature of restoration magic involved interfering with the concept of time.

1)Time magic has time limit for ressurection cause the soul disperse after death. Once the soul is lost, it can't be recovered.


2)Time Magic couldn't separate fused souls or heal them

Like Katy, Dylan’s soul had been supplanted by that of an ancient warrior. After Oscar had saved them from the church, the two of them had been in a coma until Meiru’s restoration magic had helped them regain consciousness. But while they were conscious now, the effects of the church’s artifact were still weighing down on their souls. They still couldn’t speak, and the most they could do was follow simple instructions. ZVol 4 p92

Ever since Meiru had first started using restoration magic on them, Dylan and Katy had been training within the confines of their minds, absorbing the memories and experiences of the warriors whose souls resided in their bodies. ZVol 6 p386

Katy and Dylan's souls were forcibly imprinted with the memories of deceased warriors using this artifact

「……Combat ability succession system……”God’s Eye”?」

According to the information, it was originally an artifact for prolonging life span through soul copying. This artifact was adjusted so the emotion and will were suppressed as preventative measure against rebellion, while only autonomy in regard to battle was maintained.

The demerit was doing the copying from human to human would cause turbidity to the soul and turned the human into an invalid, so the soul transcription could only be done to golem. The merit was that because it was golem, the soul wouldn’t be separated even if it received damage that should be fatal for living thing, and the golem was easy to repair and could be sent back to the frontline quickly. Remnant of Myth Ch 4

“O-kun! This is what transformed Dylan-kun and the others into mindless fighters. It’s an artifact that holds the memories of ancient masters. Not only that, it can transfer those fighting skills into other people. But this stupid bishop doesn’t actually know how to use it right!” According to Miledi, the sheer amount of information transferred into the people who inherited these skills was too much for the hosts to handle. Because of that, it suppressed their original personalities. At first, the subjects he’d tested on had gone berserk, but after a while the bishop had figured out how to at least control his super soldiers. However, he still didn’t know how to turn them back.

Moreover, in order to execute the kind of moves master fighters had been able to, the hosts had to push their bodies far past their limits. Of course they couldn’t last long in that state, and quickly destroyed themselves. But because their healing abilities had been forcibly increased as well, their bodies regenerated over and over. Still, there was a physical limit to how long they could keep doing that. Even with such powerful healing magic, a few battles would leave them dead and broken. Zero Vol 1 p160

Time Magic could't reverse soul manipulation, the only solution was absorbing those memories.

Ever since Meiru had first started using restoration magic on them, Dylan and Katy had been training within the confines of their minds, absorbing the memories and experiences of the warriors whose souls resided in their bodies. Zero Vol 6 p386

"The two of them awakened in order to help Ruth and Corrin escape. They’ve inherited the skills of the ancient warriors whose souls were implanted in their bodies,” Oscar said in a proud voice, patting Dylan and Katy’s heads. Though, hestill couldn’t hide the flicker of sorrow that passed through his eyes. Zero Vol 6 p 398

If you're wondering the warriors memories are called "souls", It's because soul element(Thought, Consciousness, Will, Memory, Emotion...) could function as "soul" by themselves.


3) Time magic couldn’t reverse emotion manipulation

“I-I must say, that does sound like an intriguing experiment. If evolution magic can be used on emotions as well, there’s an endless amount of possibilities.”

“Yue, you sure you want to try it? I feel like you should get some more practice with evolution magic in first.”

“Mmm, I’ll be fine... If it goes wrong, Kaori can always heal me with restoration magic.”

Kaori gave Yue a confident nod, and Yue nodded back.

“Let’s try it... Make me love Hajime even more, moe moe kyun!” Vol 8 p381

“Someone stop Yue! Kaori, use your restoration magic, please!”

“Uwaaaaaah, Yue, come back to your senses!” Kaori cast restoration magic faster than she ever had in her life. Silver light rained down on Yue.

“Are you... trying to get in my way?”

However, it had no effect.

“Why isn’t it working!?” Kaori screamed. Vol 8 p383

Although this one was achieved through manipulating soul information.(It's still irreversible)

As I've proven in previous threads Memory, Emotion, Skills and Mana capacity are the individual's "elements" and fundamental information. Thus, souls qualify for Acausality type 1.(I'm also fine with either possible or limited)


Type 4:
Each realm has its own concepts

「Gods from outer universe, mythological creatures……I’m thinking whether these things are related to the “calamity world”.」

Confusion, doubt, surprise……various emotions surfaced. The confusion came from those who didn’t know about the “calamity world”.

Hajime continued with a simple explanation of the basic knowledge, especially for the agents.

「I’ve mentioned before but, the “calamity world” itself exists. But, it’s the fact that the natural way of things there is crumbling. Even the compass get horrible noises and can’t see or feel anything there. We don’t know anything about it other than “it is existing”.」

You all follow so far? Hajime asked with his gaze looking around. Agent J and others looked like they wanted to say that they didn’t follow at all but, for now they read the atmosphere and stayed quiet.

「Concept magic is the ultimate way to interfere with the underlying principles of cosmos. For the compass that is one of them being unable to detect is the greatest proof that “the natural way of things in the calamity world is breaking down”. That’s my thinking.」

Hajime once tried using the compass to search if there were visitors from the “calamity world”, in other word survivors other than Ehito in the other worlds. But the result went without saying. There was no existence like that.

「But, but if. In a world where the concepts of time and space, the gravity and soul, the inorganic and organic and information crumbled, creating an environment that we can’t possibly even imagine, and there’s existence who changed and survived there? That can be said as “existence removed from the underlying principles of cosmos” isn’t it?」

「……Don’t tell me……that’s why the compass doesn’t react?」

「Such thing……no, it’s consistent with what we know? Rather, why didn’t I think of that kind of possibility?」

Yue fell into thought with a serious expression. Kousuke looked exasperated toward himself saying 「Why did I erase the existence of the calamity world from my mind……」. Ch 546

The souls of are connected to the soul concept of their realm and gods who hold absolute authority over their universe concepts lose that advantage against outsiders.

「To think, they murdered the goddess and rob her authority……」

Why, a goddess who should enjoy an absolute advantage within her own world could be defeated by children of her own world even if they were the Transcendents group?

The answer was simple.

「The Transcendents weren’t native of the hell world. Their root……was the same with Ehito. They might be from the calamity world, huh.」

Even if it was most difficult for people of the same world, what if it was existence from a different world?

The goddess’s advantage no matter what it was got dimmed.

The Transcendents apparently never talked about their own root no matter what but, it seemed they had disclosed something like a hint to their direct descendants.

Of course, if that was true then the hell’s goddess must have known. That they were visitors from a different world.

「Thinking carefully, it’s strange why only hell and Tortus have the same “magic power energy”. But, if the Transcendents were people who escaped alive from the calamity world just like Ehito then that explains it.」Ch 548

---

Agree: @Lloydblitzed ,@Astral_Trinity439 ,@LuffyRuffy46307 ,@Shiraito983 ,@PHANtomFELdway ,@Elizhaa ,@IvarUHQ ,@Apex_Predator_GX ,@LephyrTheRevanchist ,

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Agree with this

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Simple enough, sure

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

So they got teleported to a different place outside their timeline, gained abilities and return to their original timeline with the said abilities , how does that make them unaffected by alterations in the past ?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

So they got teleported to a different place outside their timeline, gained abilities and return to their original timeline with the said abilities , how does that make them unaffected by alterations in the past ?

New timeline was erased but they kept their skills and abilities. Wouldn't be possible without acausality

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

New timeline was erased but they kept their skills and abilities. Wouldn't be possible without acausality

Where is it stated that it was erased

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Where is it stated that it was erased

Read 4th paragraph. The timeline seemingly "never happened", implying it got erased

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Read 4th paragraph. The timeline seemingly "never happened", implying it got erased

More like time travel

They got Summoned from different points in time by a whale to a city outside space and time—>The whale return them to their original time and place before the summoning even happened.

They don't remember the whale summoning them(It never happened), but they have a faint memory of the adventure and the new abilities and stats increase they gained from it remained. Memory stats and skills are part of the soul, which indivate that the soul itself could be acausal.

The summon:

Of course, Myu had no idea what the creature was, either. But it seemed she was sensing something from it. Something inside her was telling Myu that they couldn’t hurt it, and Hajime could tell from the earnest look in her eyes that she sincerely believed that. She just couldn’t express it in words. While Hajime was hesitating, their surroundings continued to transform. The whirlwind of mist sped up until they were surrounded by a wall of fog, making it look like they were in the eye of a storm. But the sky above them wasn’t clear, like it would be in a normal storm. It, too, was covered in swirling dense fog. But instead of sucking up the surrounding water, the fog hurricane was pushing it away, creating a crater in the ocean.

“Does it mean to drag us down to the bottom of the ocean?”

“It’s strange... I can sense mana from everything around us, both the fog and the water.”

“It’s strange... I can sense mana from everything around us, both the fog and the water.”

“Hajime-san, I think we’ll be okay! I’m not seeing any future where we die, at least!”

Hajime shot Yue a glance. Though he said nothing, it was a trivial task for her to read his thoughts, and she quickly created a teleportation portal to let everyone escape. But before she could send anyone through—

“Daddy! He’s calling for us! He wants us to save him!”

“Wh-What?”

Unfortunately, there wasn’t enough time to process that or ask Myu what she meant. Owooooooooooooooooooooo!The creature let out a howl. It wasn’t a threatening sound, though. In fact, it almost sounded melodic. A second later, Hajime and the others were surrounded by light, and their consciousness began to fade.

“Shi—” Yue shouted, panicking. The portal she’d created scattered to the four winds. SS Volume p215

They don't remember this event, because the whale sent back in time before it summoned them.


I have scans of soul changes/destruction being irreversible with Restoration Magic.

The true nature of restoration magic involved interfering with the concept of time, and Godspeed made it so that the time every single one of Kaori’s actions took was reduced to a fraction of its normal use. That included everything from the time it took Kaori’s attacks to reachher enemies to the time it took for her to move from place to place. Vol 13 p111

 

[Community_Gamer]

So basically you trying to say that their souls are unaffected by the supposed paradox because they still have the upgrades from events that occurred.

My question is...what's the paradox supposed to be here? What's the contradiction? It's not like they arrived before they left, they arrived shortly after, so that's not it. Also didn't the whole story take place in separate disconnected space-time where time flows different than Tortus? If so, then there's no erased timeline or anything. Even if there was it wouldn't be Tortus' so they'd no history to contradict, right?

Sorry I'm just confused how this even qualifies for Acasuality.

But that didn’t seem right. Looking down at his watch, he noticed almost no time had passed since the last thing he remembered. Hajime slowly got to a sitting position, careful not to push Remia or Myu off.

This just says barely any time had past from they remembered last. They forgot the summoning happened so this statement is really saying nothing of relevance other than they forgot and when they returned it was if no time had pasted. But interpreting this as "they returned before they summoned" when it clearly references an instance of memory because they FORGOT the summoning occurred at all seems quite disingenuous or just shortsighted.

I think the correct interpretation is that they get summoned, their memory of the event is erased (it's literally not explained why), they are returned an instant after the are summoned making it seem like nothing happened. I think the ladder interpretation of timeline erasure is extrapolation and exaggeration of what's clearly memory loss. That interpretation would require more substantial evidence that's not present.

Again, even if that timeline was erased why would that affect their memories when it's not even connected to Tortus? Because you are implying it's an erased part of Tortus' timeline but their souls weren't effected. However this says blatantly it's not.

This abandoned capital didn’t actually exist anywhere within the real world. It had once stood where the sea they’d come from was, but the seal had transported it into a gap between dimensions. Basically, this whole space was a city-sized Treasure Trove.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Now that I think about it, the idea of the memory erasure makes sense. Don't know why it didn't come to mind first

But both interpretations are somewhat possible, so count me as neutral for now.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Now that I think about it, the idea of the memory erasure makes sense. Don't know why it didn't come to mind first

But both interpretations are somewhat possible, so count me as neutral for now.

Why would you think that an entity that transcend space-time will erase their memory (no mention of it having this ability) without affecting their soul instead of it being a side effect of time travel ?


The whale can't and has no reason to erase their memory and it hasn't shown any form of mind manipulation. It couldn't even communicate with them through telepathy which is a basic use of Soul Magic instead it needed Myu.(Myu is an outlier)


Edit: Soul is fundamental and has show other instances being unaffected by Restoration Magic.

The true nature of restoration magic involved interfering with the concept of time.

1)Time magic has time limit for ressurection

2)Time Magic couldn't separate fused souls

Like Katy, Dylan’s soul had been supplanted by that of an ancient warrior. After Oscar had saved them from the church, the two of them had been in a coma until Meiru’s restoration magic had helped them regain consciousness. But while they were conscious now, the effects of the church’s artifact were still weighing down on their souls. They still couldn’t speak, and the most they could do was follow simple instructions. ZVol 4 p92

Ever since Meiru had first started using restoration magic on them, Dylan and Katy had been training within the confines of their minds, absorbing the memories and experiences of the warriors whose souls resided in their bodies. ZVol 6 p386

3) Time magic couldn’t reverse emotion manipulation

“I-I must say, that does sound like an intriguing experiment. If evolution magic can be used on emotions as well, there’s an endless amount of possibilities.”

“Yue, you sure you want to try it? I feel like you should get some more practice with evolution magic in first.”

“Mmm, I’ll be fine... If it goes wrong, Kaori can always heal me with restoration magic.”

Kaori gave Yue a confident nod, and Yue nodded back.

“Let’s try it... Make me love Hajime even more, moe moe kyun!” Vol 8 p381

“Someone stop Yue! Kaori, use your restoration magic, please!”

“Uwaaaaaah, Yue, come back to your senses!” Kaori cast restoration magic faster than she ever had in her life. Silver light rained down on Yue.

“Are you... trying to get in my way?”

However, it had no effect.

“Why isn’t it working!?” Kaori screamed. Vol 8 p383

Another thing is that it happened that souls reincarnate in the past or the future with their memory intact.(Freid)

「And. Well, naturally the first king and his partner the king dragon were also stupidly strong. They were truly the “legendary dragon knigt”. Apparently the king dragon could actually control the weather.」

「Unlike now, it was an era where firearm still hadn’t been invented. But, it’s said that somehow the first king used sky core’s energy to cause powerful natural phenomenon, exactly like the magic of Yue-sama and everyone.」

At the present it was something with unknown principle. It was truly a fairytale.

The two were truly man and dragon united as one. It was no wonder that they were able to unite the world.

「Goshujin-sama, don’t keep us in suspense. What bother thou art not about whether it’s possible to reproduce the phenomenon of magic using sky core energy correct?」

Hajime already possessed the element conversion technology. Certainly this wasn’t something that would make him that curious.

「Yeah, it’s not that. What bothered me is the name of this king dragon partner.」

「The king dragon’s name, thou said?」

Tio and others tilted their head in even more confusion. Hajime then told them.

「Apparently the first king named him. ──As “Uranos”.」

「!!」

It was a familiar name. Not only Tio, even Yue and others opened their eyes wide. Only Roze and others who still looked confused.

「I’ve confirmed with Roze and others. There isn’t any word “Uranos” in this world. Why, the first king gave that name to the king dragon who became his partner……」

「W-wait a second, Goshujin-sama. That’s……」

Tio was bewildered. Yue and others understood what they were talking about and looked at each other.

「Lutria said it. The soul of the dead return to nature and got purified through the great tree before dwelling inside someone again. It’s like colored water falling into a big river, just a single droplet of splash.」

But, if, that colored water by some chance, or perhaps because of some reason dwelling inside someone once more while still colored?

Wouldn’t that be “memory of past life” or “circle of transmigration” that was talked like urban legend even at earth? Ch 529

There is also the MC being the king of vampire in his previous life and unknowingly using his previous name Alfard as a fake persona.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It looks good to me

 

[Community_Gamer]

Why would you think that an entity that transcend space-time will erase their memory (no mention of it having this ability) without affecting their soul instead of it being a side effect of time travel ?


The whale can't and has no reason to erase their memory and it hasn't shown any form of mind manipulation. It couldn't even communicate with them through telepathy which is a basic use of Soul Magic instead it needed Myu.(Myu is an outlier)

I'm not claiming whale does or doesn't erase their memories just that there's no compelling evidence to suggest their memories were erased.

Also I'm specifically refuting the notion that they were returned to a time before they left (which is blatantly untrue). A notion you extrapolate to say that a timeline had to be erased rather than simply forgotten which you seemingly only justify through the idea that "the whale can transcend space-time as well summon people".

It doesn't even make sense to imply the whale erased the timeline for a few reasons:

1. The whale summoned them to the save the city and repel the threat. If it was willing and/or to destroy capable of destroying their timeline, then why even summon heroes? At that point just destroy it and be done.

2. Not even Ehit or any of cast at their peak could destroy a timeline, so why would you think a whale or even the technology from a random civilization (a civilization that I'm pretty sure Ehit bodied) be capable of such less than mid way through the main story?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I'm not claiming whale does or doesn't erase their memories just that there's no compelling evidence to suggest their memories were erased.

No memory erasure just TIME TRAVEL. Them not remembering the mist and spirit whale suggest they were sent back before the summoning even happened.

Also I'm specifically refuting the notion that they were returned to a time before they left (which is blatantly untrue). A notion you extrapolate to say that a timeline had to be erased rather than simply forgotten which you seemingly only justify through the idea that "the whale can transcend space-time as well summon people".

Do you have any evidence to support it?

And Who said anything about erasing timeline? It's TIME TRAVEL

It doesn't even make sense to imply the whale erased the timeline for a few reasons:


1. The whale summoned them to the save the city and repel the threat. If it was willing and/or to destroy capable of destroying their timeline, then why even summon heroes? At that point just destroy it and be done.

What make you think the whale could do that ?

2. Not even Ehit or any of cast at their peak could destroy a timeline, so why would you think a whale or even the technology from a random civilization (a civilization that I'm pretty sure Ehit bodied) be capable of such less than mid way through the main story?

Timeline erasure is YOUR claim.

Seriously? Ehit never did it so it's impossible.
Did Ehit ever Time travel? No, but it's possible

「I never! I also never went to the past!」

To think that the “doing time travel and making child suspicion” came up once more here. It was a fact that he became a guinea pig, so strong doubt was residing inside Aularodde and Moana’s eyes now.

Coughh Kouki cleared his throat. He forcefully returned the talk to be back on topic.

「As expected it’s difficult to go back for several thousands years with just regeneration magic so……」

It would be possible if he received unlimited magic power supply, but to do that he would have to ask Hajime to supply magic power to him across worlds.

Of course he would do that if it was necessary, but then it would be Hajime doing the work even after saying that he would leave it to Kouki. So, Hajime had prepared one more tool for the branch revival. ch468

We don't even know all of what Ehit is capable of let alone Ancient Magic. Ehit civilization controled stars and destroyed "universal order" to the point of making their world uninhabitable.

 

[Community_Gamer]

No memory erasure just TIME TRAVEL. Them not remembering the mist and spirit whale suggest they were sent back before the summoning even happened.

Do you have any evidence to support it?

And Who said anything about erasing timeline? It's TIME TRAVEL

What make you think the whale could do that ?

Timeline erasure is YOUR claim.

My bad I think misunderstood you.

You are saying they returned to a point in time before they left thus creating a paradox. I'm saying the text doesn't actually say that at all.

But that didn’t seem right. Looking down at his watch, he noticed almost no time had passed since the last thing he remembered. Hajime slowly got to a sitting position, careful not to push Remia or Myu off.

Seriously? Ehit never did it so it's impossible.
Did Ehit ever Time travel? No, but it's possible

We don't even know all of what Ehit is capable of let alone Ancient Magic. Ehit civilization controled stars and destroyed "universal order" to the point of making their world uninhabitable.

Yeah let's ignore this point since I misunderstood their claim.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

You are saying they returned to a point in time before they left thus creating a paradox. I'm saying the text doesn't actually say that at all.

You know that they have seen and sensed the whale before the summoning happened, but for some reason they don't remember anything about the whale after waking up. They think it's just a magical phenomenon of Tortus. So, the whale return back in time before they come into contact with him. This kind of support the whale being capable of transcending space and time.


The summoning:

Of course, Myu had no idea what the creature was, either. But it seemed she was sensing something from it. Something inside her was telling Myu that they couldn’t hurt it, and Hajime could tell from the earnest look in her eyes that she sincerely believed that. She just couldn’t express it in words. While Hajime was hesitating, their surroundings continued to transform. The whirlwind of mist sped up until they were surrounded by a wall of fog, making it look like they were in the eye of a storm. But the sky above them wasn’t clear, like it would be in a normal storm. It, too, was covered in swirling dense fog. But instead of sucking up the surrounding water, the fog hurricane was pushing it away, creating a crater in the ocean.

“Does it mean to drag us down to the bottom of the ocean?”

“It’s strange... I can sense mana from everything around us, both the fog and the water.”

“It’s strange... I can sense mana from everything around us, both the fog and the water.”

“Hajime-san, I think we’ll be okay! I’m not seeing any future where we die, at least!”

Hajime shot Yue a glance. Though he said nothing, it was a trivial task for her to read his thoughts, and she quickly created a teleportation portal to let everyone escape. But before she could send anyone through—

“Daddy! He’s calling for us! He wants us to save him!”

“Wh-What?”

Unfortunately, there wasn’t enough time to process that or ask Myu what she meant. Owooooooooooooooooooooo!The creature let out a howl. It wasn’t a threatening sound, though. In fact, it almost sounded melodic. A second later, Hajime and the others were surrounded by light, and their consciousness began to fade.

“Shi—” Yue shouted, panicking. The portal she’d created scattered to the four winds. SS Volume p215

They don't remember the whale, because the whale sent back in time before it came into contact with them. They couldn't indentify him and thought it was a Tortus Phenomenon

Eventually, a giant whale surfaced from the depths of the glowing sea.

“Vwoooooooooooooooooooon!”

Its warm light was reminiscent of a sunny forest floor in early spring. Everyone instinctively knew they would be safe in its gentle embrace. Though it said no words, everyone could tell that the whale of light was immensely grateful to them.

“The Shimmering Ocean...” Hajime muttered quietly.

No one contradicted his assertion. As Hajime stared at the massive, hundred-meter long whale and its entourage of sea creatures, Hajime suddenly realized something.

“Is it just me, or do we suddenly have more mana than before?” SS Collection P274

They don't even remember being surrounded by it.

 

[Shiraito983]

Agreee FRA

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

After rereading the conversation between Watcher and Gamer, I'm inclined to agree with Aca1.

Now that I think about it, the idea of the memory erasure makes sense. Don't know why it didn't come to mind first

But both interpretations are somewhat possible, so count me as neutral for now.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Nothing will change as I forgot to change your position anyways.


Do you agree or disagree ?

I've lost interest, I'm neutral

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I think a possibly rating is fine.though that may change

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

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I've added type 4 to the OP.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I genuinely don’t see what would make this type 4

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I genuinely don’t see what would make this type 4

Same ngl

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Same ngl

Maybe he is trying to argue different concepts of causality? I don’t see that though

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

@Lloydblitzed Do you still disagree ?

I thought that Acausality type 4 didn't necessarly require causality. But causality is govern by Time here.

For information about concepts and authorities, look here.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I thought that Acausality type 4 didn't necessarly require causality. But causality is govern by Time here.

For information about concepts and authorities, look here.

i guess it is possible if that is accepted already. Idk if just being connected would be enough though.does your soul change depending on your world ?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

does your soul change depending on your world ?

No


This might be useful:
Souls are construct of their realm's lifeforce be it Ki, Mana, Blessing, Positive Energy... and they have different "presence" according to a goddess

『The spirits are also not harboring any negative feeling. They just aren’t used to all of you. Because children of foreign world are different in presence. They will become used to it before long. So there is no need to worry.』Ch 492

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Looking at more recent evidence, it seems good to be type 4 acausality.

 

[Elizhaa]

The acausality types look fine.

 

[IvarUHQ]

So I don't know the verse, but based on what you sent, I agree with type 4 and type 1 acausality

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

The acausality types look fine.

Won't this give everyone resistance to every hax that comes from Ancient Magic ? Or just Soul Magic ?

 

[Elizhaa]

Won't this give everyone resistance to every hax that comes from Ancient Magic ? Or just Soul Magic ?

No. At best, type 4 acausality have potential to give resistances but it does depends on the verse and so it is case by case.
Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This has the potential to grant them resistances to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others, depending on its shown capabilities which should be specified on the given page.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP looks fine to me.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Not an expert on Type 4, but trust Elizhaa's evaluation. I don't think Arifureta is part of the list for controversial verses, so this should be able to be applied with just 2 votes.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Not an expert on Type 4, but trust Elizhaa's evaluation. I don't think Arifureta is part of the list for controversial verses, so this should be able to be applied with just 2 votes.

There is a list ?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

There is a list ? Link

Popular/Controversial Verses and the Determination Thereof

This is the list minus Jojo, Undertale, Gravity Falls, and Fairy Tail (which in my experience was never much of a problem).

vsbattles.com

As of currently.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Popular/Controversial Verses and the Determination Thereof

This is the list minus Jojo, Undertale, Gravity Falls, and Fairy Tail (which in my experience was never much of a problem).

vsbattles.com

As of currently.

Two votes will do. Arifureta wasn't popular enough to be listed.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Not an expert on Type 4, but trust Elizhaa's evaluation. I don't think Arifureta is part of the list for controversial verses, so this should be able to be applied with just 2 votes.

C: