Low 1-A Honkai Upgrade

[Vietthai96]

lack space-time altogether

It says space and time frozen, not lacking them

Also i remembered HooH scan specifically excludes space and time

And more, HooH is stated to have dissolved into a web of logic, yet in IX scans stated logic is just a part that made up one side of the coin, Nihility which is IX oppose the reality as the opposite side of the coin, both sides made up a complete universe.That mean it oppose even HooH

So........the verse contradict itself?

 

[Voidnether]

would predating the concepts of duality by default be considered beyond dimensionality

That's literally why this could even be tiered as Low 1-A or even 1-A through Ultima's standards, because it was Ultima himself who made it explicit predating the concept of duality as in like space-times, dimensionality, and so on especially physicality would get you 1-A. I feel like it's there somewhere on the BDE page or like just Ultima's overall explanations when he explained this kind of duality stuff

 

[Unqver]

So........the verse contradict itself?

You just noticed?

 

[Voidnether]

It says space and time frozen, not lacking them

Also i remembered HooH scan specifically excludes space and time

And more, HooH is stated to have dissolved into a web of logic, yet in IX scans stated logic is just a part that made up one side of the coin, Nihility which is IX oppose the reality as the opposite side of the coin, both sides made up a complete universe.That mean it oppose even HooH

So........the verse contradict itself?

Space-time here makes up reality if that's not obvious to you, IX is the literal opposite of reality and that includes space-times. I brought the scans where Acheron froze space-time to prove space-time existed and participate in the creations of reality

Why would it contradict itself? Equilibrium governs Existence and Nonexistence, Existence here is reality since Imaginary Tree is refered once as the Tree of Existence and for all I know here, nonexistence could literally be anything and one of the possibility with that is IX, heck if the nonexistence here is Sea of Quanta for example, why would it contradict itself? There's not even a single reason to assume that

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

That's literally why this could even be tiered as Low 1-A or even 1-A through Ultima's standards, because it was Ultima himself who made it explicit predating the concept of duality as in like space-times, dimensionality, and so on especially physicality would get you 1-A. I feel like it's there somewhere on the BDE page or like just Ultima's overall explanations when he explained this kind of duality stuff

Predating doesn't mean shit lol

 

[Voidnether]

Predating doesn't mean shit lol

if it doesnt mean shit why is it used as both the justification and the debunk at the same time wtf??

like you know i also originally thought that doesnt mean shit because thats what i said in the original cm1 thread back when the OP itself used the entire predating notions against but like you get my point here

i genuinely made a distinction there before i explained the authority of finality stuff, which is like predating ≠ independent, obviously everyone knows that shit but nowadays it's twisted as in like horribly because of you and idk who else is involved

 

[Vietthai96]

It is really depends on what duality we are talking about. Not all dualities pave way for Low 1-A to 1-A. Especially since we already separated duality into metaphysical duality and logical duality, being paradoxical that violate logical duality hardly means anything in term of granting tier. And metaphysical duality also depends on what kind of duality, you can't say predate duality of good and evil make you Low 1-A or 1-A

You just noticed?

Space-time here makes up reality if that's not obvious to you, IX is the literal opposite of reality and that includes space-times

Wut??. I didn't deny space-time is a part that make up reality

Existence here is reality since Imaginary Tree is refered once as the Tree of Existence and for all I know here,

1. Nothing said this

2. Scan literally say everything that make up reality is one side of the coin, the existence. And IX being nihility oppose reality, also oppose existence. If i follows your logic. Imaginary Tree is the Tree of Existence, IX oppose Existence so it oppose the Tree. HooH being a nondual existence that is both existence and nonexistence should be greater/superior than both the Tree and IX as both of them being parts of HooH. But what we have?, IX equal to HooH and every other Aeons also like this, and Aeons aren't greater than the Tree, you guys be making contradictory claims, ngl

3. The scan literally said, logic is just a part that make up reality which is one side of the coin. This is the reason why IX lacking logic due to it being nihility that oppose reality, thus it oppose every parts that made up reality, including logic. This make HooH who is stated to have dissolved into a web of logic, being simply logic that being opposed by IX, thus contradict the claims HooH is the union of all duals because HooH itself being opposed of equal standing opposition

nonexistence could literally be anything and one of the possibility with that is IX, heck if the nonexistence here is Sea of Quanta for example, why would it contradict itself

Wutt?, nonexistence could be anything. So IX isn't NEP?

 

[Voidnether]

It is really depends on what duality we are talking about. Not all dualities pave way for Low 1-A to 1-A. Especially since we already separated duality into metaphysical duality and logical duality, being paradoxical that violate logical duality hardly means anything in term of granting tier. And metaphysical duality also depends on what kind of duality, you can't say predate duality of good and evil make you Low 1-A or 1-A






Wut??. I didn't deny space-time is a part that make up reality



1. Nothing said this

2. Scan literally say everything that make up reality is one side of the coin, the existence. And IX being nihility oppose reality, also oppose existence. If i follows your logic. Imaginary Tree is the Tree of Existence, IX oppose Existence so it oppose the Tree. HooH being a nondual existence that is both existence and nonexistence should be greater/superior than both the Tree and IX as both of them being parts of HooH. But what we have?, IX equal to HooH and every other Aeons also like this, and Aeons aren't greater than the Tree, you guys be making contradictory claims, ngl

3. The scan literally said, logic is just a part that make up reality which is one side of the coin. This is the reason why IX lacking logic due to it being nihility that oppose reality, thus it oppose every parts that made up reality, including logic. This make HooH who is stated to have dissolved into a web of logic, being simply logic that being opposed by IX, thus contradict the claims HooH is the union of all duals because HooH itself being opposed of equal standing opposition

Wutt?, nonexistence could be anything. So IX isn't NEP?

I already proved space-time exist as a duality, I don't really care about the radical extremes like good and evil since that's how mortals in HSR pursue Equilibrium to satisfy the Arbitrators (Emanators of Equilibrium), which is by good and evil, so on as countless opposing concepts are created (all these are stated in the databank)

What do you mean nothing said this lmao? Imaginary Tree is refered as the Tree of Existence, look up when Aha climbed the Imaginary Tree, it's refered as that

The Aeons are equal through the concept of Aeonhood literally, I don't know how you don't get this part. When I said the nothingness there isn't exclusively limited to IX, because Sea of Quanta is also refered as one and the entire existence & nonexistence stuff in the Arbitrators databank like I said, the nonexistence could be anything (IX is stated as nothingness, Sea of Quanta is stated as nothingness, they're nonexistence)

If you read the OP, you'd know the web of logic isn't meant to be taken literally as in HooH is the logic itself. I don't know why you're just jumping to conclusions

 

[Voidnether]

All of the Aeons stem from Aeonhood which is the entire process on why Nanook is even able to ascend as an Aeon of Destruction, Lan as the Aeon of The Hunt and so on. It's implied Equilibrium is this "Aeonhood" itself as like I said, not only it governs existence and nonexistence but it also governs the entire rivalry between Lan and Yaoshi (Claretwheel Temple databank), if you want the scans just say it and I'll link it directly here

All Aeons are equal because they stem from the same source, they all exist in their own Path Spaces that are considered as Imaginary Spaces, this is again, stated to be a metaphysical realm and Aeons literally view the material world as something that they have to descend into (Completed Irontomb's attacks being unable to destroy these metaphysical realm as in Path Space and Eden of Blessed Insight because it's attack is simply limited to the physical plane of the Tree) and yes Path Spaces are stated to be a metaphysical realm in-game so don't say I used words that sound "clever" or something if you said it's a nothingburger

Now about the IX one, its NEP stated that its the opposite of reality that includes the Imaginary Tree and the Sea of Quanta, so its safe to say the nonexistence governed by Equilibrium is IX, and please don't put HooH on the same level on the Tree just because it dissolved because if you read the OP, you'd know how this is interpreted as

 

[Furina003]

That's literally why this could even be tiered as Low 1-A or even 1-A through Ultima's standards, because it was Ultima himself who made it explicit predating the concept of duality as in like space-times, dimensionality, and so on especially physicality would get you 1-A. I feel like it's there somewhere on the BDE page or like just Ultima's overall explanations when he explained this kind of duality stuff

I understand a little what you mean, perhaps this refers to primordial chaos where order does not yet exist.
What I mean is, did Hooh truly exist before Equilibrium? Aren't aeons based on their own path? For example, nanook can become aeons because of the destruction in the universe, so Hooh, as aeons of Equilibrium, should exist because of Equilibrium itself. otherwise, this would give rise to very significant contradictions.
So I think, hooh is not preceding the concepts of duality, but he is the keeper of the balance of the concepts of duality

Also i remembered HooH scan specifically excludes space and time

especially if this statement were true, it would completely destroy scaling to aeons

 

[Voidnether]

I understand a little what you mean, perhaps this refers to primordial chaos where order does not yet exist.
What I mean is, did Hooh truly exist before Equilibrium? Aren't aeons based on their own path? For example, nanook can become aeons because of the destruction in the universe, so Hooh, as aeons of Equilibrium, should exist because of Equilibrium itself. otherwise, this would give rise to very significant contradictions.
So I think, hooh is not preceding the concepts of duality, but he is the keeper of the balance of the concepts of duality

especially if this statement were true, it would completely destroy scaling to aeons

??? HooH is the Equilibrium itself, the Arbitrators are stated to be the embodiment of duality, why the hell should HooH predate Equilibrium?

You obviously know how to differentiate this, unless you're just refusing to, like the OP already explained why HooH preceded the duality whilst simultaneously balancing the universe in this way that HooH himself cannot the be qualified by any one single concept, as it precedes their very division and differentiation in the first place but rather, HooH is what qualifies everything. This is in the OP

Equilibrium precedes the entire division and differentiation, it served as the thing that qualifies everything into existence like I explainrd multiple times with HSR that you just don't jump to conclusions and take things as literal as it is, that being said you don't say they're metaphorical either

"HooH must predate Equilibrium itself, that way HooH would precede division and differentiation" No, that's not how it works

It's possible for Equilibrium to be the concept of duality itself and yet precede dualities, if that's not possible I would literally nuke all of the verse that precede dualities despite them being one at this very instant if that's not possible lmao. The concept is literally 1:1 to Finality, where Finality is time itself yet it's independent from what it governs (Time) which is what HooH does with Equilibrium, it's duality itself yet it precedes what it governs (Duality)

Because, duality are simply by-products just like how time is a by-product of Finality and Remembrance, Remembrance's nature is stated to be a causality that transcends time, it has time as an aspect to be a by-product of that

This is why I ask one more time, to not jump into conclusions and let me explain it FOR ONCE, if you have any point that you feel like it's not addressed, just ASK, but don't go into conclusions YET before everything is CLARIFIED for once PLEASE

 

[Voidnether]

one more time i see anyone jumping into conclusions before i explained anything/something for it to be addressed im just leaving this to the OP by this point
(yeah nvm im just leaving this to the OP, I'm contend with the 3-B stuff I have already if anything)

 

[Viery]

??? HooH is the Equilibrium itself, the Arbitrators are stated to be the embodiment of duality, why the hell should HooH predate Equilibrium?

You obviously know how to differentiate this, unless you're just refusing to, like the OP already explained why HooH preceded the duality whilst simultaneously balancing the universe in this way that HooH himself cannot the be qualified by any one single concept, as it precedes their very division and differentiation in the first place but rather, HooH is what qualifies everything. This is in the OP

Equilibrium precedes the entire division and differentiation, it served as the thing that qualifies everything into existence like I explainrd multiple times with HSR that you just don't jump to conclusions and take things as literal as it is, that being said you don't say they're metaphorical either

"HooH must predate Equilibrium itself, that way HooH would precede division and differentiation" No, that's not how it works

It's possible for Equilibrium to be the concept of duality itself and yet precede dualities, if that's not possible I would literally nuke all of the verse that precede dualities despite them being one at this very instant if that's not possible lmao. The concept is literally 1:1 to Finality, where Finality is time itself yet it's independent from what it governs (Time) which is what HooH does with Equilibrium, it's duality itself yet it precedes what it governs (Duality)

Because, duality are simply by-products just like how time is a by-product of Finality and Remembrance, Remembrance's nature is stated to be a causality that transcends time, it has time as an aspect to be a by-product of that

This is why I ask one more time, to not jump into conclusions and let me explain it FOR ONCE, if you have any point that you feel like it's not addressed, just ASK, but don't go into conclusions YET before everything is CLARIFIED for once PLEASE

Isn’t Path a philosophical concept that was created after the Aeons ascended? The reason Aeons are said to be the embodiments of the Paths is because they are tied to the purpose of Path and can freely control it — but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are tied to the Path or they are the path itself.

This is why a Path can still exist even if the Aeon that governs it is gone.

 

[Voidnether]

Isn’t Path a philosophical concept that was created after the Aeons ascended? The reason Aeons are said to be the embodiments of the Paths is because they are tied to the purpose of Path and can freely control it — but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are the Path itself.

This is why a Path can still exist even if the Aeon that governs it is gone.

Yes, that's why Himeko stated that a Path cannot be closed when its already created

I'd argue Paths are by-products of the Aeons but that's for another day I suppose, or the otherwise but you probably get the point that I'm sure even when Akivili dies, let's say the Trailblazer is able to replace Akivili or whatever unless it's revealed Trailblazer is Akivili-reincarnated but those are (?) Information imo

 

[SuperNova55555]

Brother why are ya’ll speaking so much damnnnn. I’ll put Vietthai as disagreeing for the moment until I respond cuz I’m busy rn

 

[Vietthai96]

I already proved space-time exist as a duality

Dude what?, space-time is duality?, where?.

I don't really care about the radical extremes like good and evil since that's how mortals in HSR pursue Equilibrium to satisfy the Arbitrators (Emanators of Equilibrium), which is by good and evil, so on as countless opposing concepts are created (all these are stated in the databank)

Countless opposing concepts were created and interpreted

Non-qualifying, mental concepts lol

What do you mean nothing said this lmao? Imaginary Tree is refered as the Tree of Existence, look up when Aha climbed the Imaginary Tree, it's refered as that

This actually reinforced my points, literally

When I said the nothingness there isn't exclusively limited to IX, because Sea of Quanta is also refered as one and the entire existence & nonexistence stuff in the Arbitrators databank like I said, the nonexistence could be anything (IX is stated as nothingness, Sea of Quanta is stated as nothingness, they're nonexistence)

That is still make no sense, if HooH is the union of existence and nonexistence, it should be all of existence and all of nonexistence, somehow IX being nihility is outside of this sphere contradict any claims about HooH

If you read the OP, you'd know the web of logic isn't meant to be taken literally as in HooH is the logic itself. I don't know why you're just jumping to conclusions

My conclusion is based on what the scans say. It say that HooH dissolves their will into the web of logic behind the universe's movement, maintaining balance and stability. The later part also said it is a system. IX profile have it being NEP that lack everything due to opposing reality as nihility including logic. You guys claimed that existence and nonexistence should be parts of HooH due to it being union of dualities; this mean IX, as nihility must be a part of HooH, or a part of this logical system, thus IX should not lack logic; but he is, and even the scan said that logic only made up reality, not the nihility that oppose it, mean it oppose and lack logic which make no sense if HooH encompass nihility which is IX, and IX as Aeon is even rival HooH

So all and all.
1. HooH is Low 1-A and nothing scale to it
2. Everyone scales to each other but none is Low 1-A

Pick your poisons

 

[PedjaTarzan]

my poison here is nether arguing facking IX instead of how even imaginary space is said to not exist in any dimension u can get in touch with
and if you remember welt vs ryusuke if he can affect all dimensions but IMG space cannot be affected because uhh…maybe it exists beyond all dimensions idk i already posted all the scans i had to Super Nova idk if he ate them or lost them bro
And theres also CoF but im gonna let him find it since he used EXACT same blog for low 1-A and he still missed it

 

[Vietthai96]

my poison here is nether arguing facking IX

Your poison is delete the game

if you remember welt vs ryusuke if he can affect all dimensions but IMG space cannot be affected

Gravity need dimensions to works, it of course can't affect IMG space cause it have no real space to even work

maybe

Maybe

 

[Voidnether]

my poison here is nether arguing facking IX instead of how even imaginary space is said to not exist in any dimension u can get in touch with
and if you remember welt vs ryusuke if he can affect all dimensions but IMG space cannot be affected because uhh…maybe it exists beyond all dimensions idk i already posted all the scans i had to Super Nova idk if he ate them or lost them bro
And theres also CoF but im gonna let him find it since he used EXACT same blog for low 1-A and he still missed it

vietthai just said theyre all only bde1 (for imaginary space) before all this debate even happened btw

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Your poison is delete the game

“Poison” mf thats called being free from gacha hell

Gravity need dimensions to works, it of course can't affect IMG space cause it have no real space to even work

because its completelyt transcending real space thats bounded by dimensions, hence imaginary singularity and img space have all this dimensionless no dimensional info and non existing in dimension slop
Because you need to completely transcend real space just to be part of imaginary
Even otto did that, and Aeons and CoF do this thousands of times better when Aeons literally need to descend into form of physicls avatars and cof needs its specific goon to project itself on earth (kiana)
This is why Irontomb destroying entire Universe (imaginary tree) did not touch imaginary space and aeons in the slightest because THEIR existence is so much superior to real space
dont see how would bde1 make sense here if existence of imaginary space aeons and CoF completely and absolutely surpass real space thats actually dimensional slop

 

[PedjaTarzan]

vietthai just said theyre all only bde1 (for imaginary space) before all this debate even happened btw

thats when super nova links blog sections and says "yeah just read scans inside it" (no one did) and we get 7 pages of pure yap but aight.

 

[SuperNova55555]

I just know Honkai supporters are edging for Nova to drop sum and save their verse… ya’ll gotta wait a bit more tho hehe

(So don’t bloat the thread beyond necessity)

thats when super nova links blog sections and says "yeah just read scans inside it" (no one did) and we get 7 pages of pure yap but aight.

I had to change my pages a few times because I kept dropping all the scans inside a single imgur album and then js listing like 20 hax below it but with no links

 

[Voidnether]

I just know Honkai supporters are edging for Nova to drop sum and save their verse… ya’ll gotta wait a bit more tho hehe

(So don’t bloat the thread beyond necessity)


I had to change my pages a few times because I kept dropping all the scans inside a single imgur album and then js listing like 20 hax below it but with no links

i gave up replying sooo
(im tired anyway)

 

[SuperNova55555]

Okkk, I’m back:

As i have said, having no dimensional information and even transcends dimensions stil only land you at BDE Type 1

I know.

Imaginary Singularity have no dimensional information doesn't make Imaginary Space have no dimension information either

This is not a problem. The main distinction happens in respect to Real dimensions, since it’s already known that Imaginary Space is an exotic Space-Time. That’s something that is warranted for spaces too big to be qualified as standard Space-Time so it’s already in the definitions

Additionally, we qualify dimensions here as quantitative objects; so if quantity is delimited here (as Imaginary is a chaotic space), then there can’t be an ontic dimensional difference between Imaginary’s constituents

We did you get that cannot be ordered in size automatically mean quantitive distinction is delimited?. BDE1 also cannot be ordered in size but isn't mean quantitive distinction is delimited.

BDE1 by itself has no size at all (they have a quantity, as in, having 0 quantity. So it’s completely comparable; 0 < 1). Imaginary things have something but they cannot be compared to one-another so that’s why quantitative distinction is delimited

Also cannot be ordered in size is nature of imaginary number, i think Qaw already said something about this

The imaginary axis exists, and I’m pretty sure you can order them there. But there are some math nerds here that may be able to confirm this point otherwise it’s mute if you just claim it like this.

Also, since when are Real things projections of Imaginary things irl? I already said it takes inspiration from Imaginary numbers (that’s extremely obvious) but it’s not 1:1

Real Space flows from Imaginary Singularity hardly mean anything, like a physical dimensions flows from void of nothingness is a normal thing in fiction, your logic will make them all Low 1-A. And being BDE1 already made it not qualified as spatial object to begin with. Don't exist in real coordinate space is another supporting point for BDE1, in fact it will be very strange for it to exist in real space

Voids in fiction famously have a size (infinite darkness in comparison to Space-Time). I.e they have a definite quantity, which is much different than actual privation (unless you speak of it in a Neoplatonic sense, but no fiction I know qualifies Voids like that).

Like the fact that universes have a comparable size is already a disqualifier here don’t you think? They even posit part-whole relationships in themselves as they correspond to differing constituents of various Space-Times they envelop. (Umm, basically there’s parts of the Void that are “above” and others that are “below”)

And many of them aren’t even the source of space lol. + Voids are already accepted as 1-A depending on how they’re qualified:

• A void of nothingness is not necessarily 1-A; it is only 1-A if it encompasses or is vaster than reality in a qualitative manner. For example, imagine a void so distinct from reality that it lacks space-time, not because it’s simply empty, but because it is beyond dimensionality and space-time itself. In comparison, the reality we know would be even lesser than a drop of water in an ocean. In a context like this, the void possesses qualitative superiority, which is why it's referred to as a void of nothingness. no composition from our reality holds significance or meaning within it.

And the Singularity isn’t qualified like your DBZ-esque Void here. It doesn’t have genuine quantity but it still encompasses the dimensions in a universal-like sense. Which is very different.

And that it can't interfere with real thing and need to be projected just killing the entire argument about Imaginary is quantitatively superior to real space, because if it was, real space be a mere extension and reduction of imaginary space and it can freely affect real thing.

“If a higher Reality can’t affect a lower one, then it means it isn’t 1-A, even though it literally doesn’t exist in comparison to it.”

Ya know, being “too big” to be qualified a certain thing means you can’t conventionally interact with that thing ye? Ya know universals don’t genuinely intersect with Space-Time, ye?

There is no anti-feat here.

Other Aeons who equals to HooH is another problem, as HooH and union of all opposites should and is zero-sum should be greater than individual parts of it

No issues here because we’re positing HooH as nondual to what participates in it (which is only Real Space and not Imaginary Space). Seems wack I know but there isn’t any mutual exclusivity with the Low 1-A rating here.

Also i remembered HooH scan specifically excludes space and time

This is only Arbitrators iirc, it’s why statements like this exist:

But universal laws have no control over time and space, and mortals can only pursue the beauty of Equilibrium[…]

But the rules of mortals are always riddled with flaws. Out of desperation, the Arbitrators were constantly forced over the inexorable passage of time to patch up past fallacies and mistakes, forever shifting the hopes of Equilibrium onto the next "patch." HooH watches on in silence, knowing that the restoration of order could never be shaken in the slightest by such vulgar mortal drama.

Also would be very contradictory if Imaginary in general doesn’t precede Space-Time. (As in, it would literally go against every interpretation of the cosmology)

And more, HooH is stated to have dissolved into a web of logic, yet in IX scans stated logic is just a part that made up one side of the coin, Nihility which is IX oppose the reality as the opposite side of the coin, both sides made up a complete universe.That mean it oppose even HooH

Pretty sure “Web of Logic” for HooH and “Logic” for IX are qualified differently.

The first one pertains to the topology of Real Space (as literally explained in the text), i.e the movement of it’s constituents, whereas the second probably pertains to rationality (since existence is something meant to be understood but nonexistence not).

Would be very weird if IX is just not-P but also isn’t qualified for the polarity derived from the Law of Non-Contradiction.

Plus, there’s literally nothing in the narrative that implies IX is beyond logic in any sense aside from that singular line. So it’d really be veryyyyyyy weird if HooH and IX talk about the same thing.

Or if we’re reallyyy using our wanking spirit, we could also just say IX is nondual as well. Hehehe

So........the verse contradict itself?

Bro finally realized what a shithole Hoyo scaling is.

->Verse: HooH controls, sees, qualifies and envelops all things

->Also verse: Just another fraud doing jack

(I still think he’s the strongest btw, my mind hasn’t changed. I’m js not debating it any further cuz it’s irrelevant to the scaling atp)

So here’s what we do:

Either,

1) We admit the writers are illiterate monkeys and punish the verse for it (considering Shaoji tho, it might not be too farfetched an assumption)

or,

2) Steelman their writings and go with interpretations that make the most logical coherence (like separating the “logic” from HooH and IX)

 

[Vietthai96]

This is not a problem. The main distinction happens in respect to Real dimensions, since it’s already known that Imaginary Space is an exotic Space-Time. That’s something that is warranted for spaces too big to be qualified as standard Space-Time so it’s already in the definitions

And i didn't see any proof that they are too big to be qualified

Additionally, we qualify dimensions here as quantitative objects; so if quantity is delimited here (as Imaginary is a chaotic space), then there’s can’t be an ontic dimensional difference between Imaginary’s constituents

While the logic is sound, you need evidence to support this, not empty interpretation. And i don't think chaotic space gonna help here

Ya know, being “too big” to be qualified a certain thing means you can’t conventionally interact with that thing ye? Ya know universal don’t genuinely intersect with Space-Time, ye?

The scan didn't said this, it didn't said Imaginary thing is so big that it can't interact with real thing normally. The only thing it said it Sirin Subspace Lance as an imaginary construct is intangible and she can turn the lance into tangible object so it can interact with real thing. That pretty much means both imaginary and real are equally can't interact with each other

The imaginary axis exists, and I’m pretty sure you can order them there. But there are some math nerds here that may be able to confirm this point otherwise it’s mute if you just claim it like this.

You can make imaginary axis with imaginary numbers, by doing it like real space with real numbers. Making a line that intersect with real number line, to creates complex plane though it isn't important for this, and in real life math, imaginary unit mostly used to study time as as imaginary time

Voids in fiction famously have a size (infinite darkness in comparison to Space-Time). I.e they have a definite quantity

Because void in fiction isn't true nothingness in philosophical sense so it have some kind of pseudo-quantity to it for us to "define" it in a sense, to understand it. The only verse i know that have void in its truest sense is the Root from Nasuverse

And many of them aren’t even the source of space lol. + Voids already accepted as 1-A

And i don't see it from the verse

And the Singularity isn’t qualified like your DBZ-esque Void here. It doesn’t have genuine quantity but it still encompasses the dimensions in a universal-like sense. Which is very different.

What did DBZ Void have anything to do with this?, also Void simply encompasses dimensions doesn't automatically make it Low 1-A

This is only Arbitrators iirc, it’s why statements like this exist:

universal laws have no control over time and space

Seems like time and space is very exclusive things in the verse that nothing governs them

Pretty sure “Web of Logic” for HooH and “Logic” for IX are qualified differently

Yeah, pretty sure this is just your interpretation, the scan didn't say this

The first one as explained pertains to the topology of Real Space (as literally explained), i.e the movement of it’s constituents, whereas the second probably pertains to rationality (since existence is something meant to be understood but nonexistence not).

So HooH only encompasses real space, existence only?. Seem pretty much align with what the scan said and the suppose dualities in question is simply radical dualities like good and evil, ugly and beauty things, which i don't even think they qualified as actual conceptual dualities since they was created and interpreted

Would be very weird if IX is just not-P but also isn’t qualified for the polarity derived from the Law of Non-Contradiction.

IX is literally said to be the nihility that oppose reality, that mean if reality is P, IX is the not-P.

Plus, there’s literally nothing in the narrative that implies IX is beyond logic in any sense aside from that singular line. So it’s really be veryyyyyyy weird if HooH and IX talk about the same thing

IX is stated to be nihility that oppose reality that made up of things which logic is part of. And IX profile have dude lacking logic so.....

Or if we’re reallyyy using our wanking spirit, we could also just say IX is nondual as well.

Dude can't be nondual if dude exist as opposition only, the non-P side. He should be either both or neither

Bro finally realized what a shithole Hoyo scaling is.

->Verse: HooH controls, sees, qualifies and envelops all things

->Also verse: Just another fraud doing jack

(I still think he’s the strongest btw, my mind hasn’t changed. I’m js not debating it any further cuz it’s irrelevant to the scaling atp)

1) We admit the writers are illiterate monkeys and punish the verse for it (considering Shaoji tho, it might not be too farfetched an assumption)

or

2) Steelman their writings and go with interpretations that make the most logical coherence (like separating the “logic” from HooH and IX)

I'm not obligated to follow the most logical interpretations, because in the end, it is simply interpretation from us, not really what the told us

All and all, i still disagree with Low 1-A Imaginary Space, at best if i'm being lenient, it could get a possibly rating, but i'm not strongly support it either.

HooH is a tricky situation and i already said, either dude is Low 1-A and none scale to him or everything isn't Low 1-A

 

[SuperNova55555]

And i didn't see any proof that they are too big to be qualified



While the logic is sound, you need evidence to support this, not empty interpretation. And i don't think chaotic space gonna help here


The scan didn't said this, it didn't said Imaginary thing is so big that it can't interact with real thing normally. The only thing it said it Sirin Subspace Lance as an imaginary construct is intangible and she can turn the lance into tangible object so it can interact with real thing. That pretty much means both imaginary and real are equally can't interact with each other


You can make imaginary axis with imaginary numbers, by doing it like real space with real numbers. Making a line that intersect with real number line, to creates complex plane though it isn't important for this, and in real life math, imaginary unit mostly used to study time as as imaginary time


Because void in fiction isn't true nothingness in philosophical sense so it have some kind of pseudo-quantity to it for us to "define" it in a sense, to understand it. The only verse i know that have void in its truest sense is the Root from Nasuverse


And i don't see it from the verse


What did DBZ Void have anything to do with this?, also Void simply encompasses dimensions doesn't automatically make it Low 1-A



Seems like time and space is very exclusive things in the verse that nothing governs them



Yeah, pretty sure this is just your interpretation, the scan didn't say this


So HooH only encompasses real space, existence only?. Seem pretty much align with what the scan said and the suppose dualities in question is simply radical dualities like good and evil, ugly and beauty things, which i don't even think they qualified as actual conceptual dualities since they was created and interpreted


IX is literally said to be the nihility that oppose reality, that mean if reality is P, IX is the not-P.



IX is stated to be nihility that oppose reality that made up of things which logic is part of. And IX profile have dude lacking logic so.....


Dude can't be nondual if dude exist as opposition only, the non-P side. He should be either both or neither





I'm not obligated to follow the most logical interpretations, because in the end, it is simply interpretation from us, not really what the told us

All and all, i still disagree with Low 1-A Imaginary Space, at best if i'm being lenient, it could get a possibly rating, but i'm not strongly support it either.

HooH is a tricky situation and i already said, either dude is Low 1-A and none scale to him or everything isn't Low 1-A

So should I put you as “Agree with Possibly”? The Low 1-A is equally contingent on both arguments and you seem on edge for both.

But specifically here since Telomera also seemed to mention this part a bit:

The scan didn't said this, it didn't said Imaginary thing is so big that it can't interact with real thing normally. The only thing it said it Sirin Subspace Lance as an imaginary construct is intangible and she can turn the lance into tangible object so it can interact with real thing. That pretty much means both imaginary and real are equally can't interact with each other

Of course it didn’t say this. I am merely saying that the fact they don’t intersect is not a defeater to Low 1-A. That’s why I brought the universal example because Low 1-A neither requires true composition nor interaction with lower realms, but merely to not be arrivable at through quantitative addition (given superiority obviously)[well this is more like 1-A but u get what I mean]

 

[Vietthai96]

So should I put you as “Agree with Possibly”? The Low 1-A is equally contingent on both arguments and you seem on edge for both.

INS being possibly Low 1-A is very lenient, but yeah, just put my vote as possibly

Now what gonna scale?, Imaginary Tree?, SoQ?

For the record, i also only at best, agree with Possibly Low 1-A HooH. But if HooH is Possibly Low 1-A other Aeons shouldn't scales to it

 

[SuperNova55555]

INS being possibly Low 1-A is very lenient, but yeah, just put my vote as possibly

Now what gonna scale?, Imaginary Tree?, SoQ?

For the record, i also only at best, agree with Possibly Low 1-A HooH. But if HooH is Possibly Low 1-A other Aeons shouldn't scales to it

Only Imaginary (Path) Space will be Low 1-A, nothing else. The “real” parts of the cosmology are still just 11D.

This sort of upscales Aeons regardless of HooH. I believe I explained the scaling chain here

As for Aeons scaling to HooH, since it’s very contentious, I’ll say that there is technically no anti-feat with Aeons scaling to HooH in the Imaginary sense. Considering even non-existence is literally made from stuff like Imaginary Energy yet the corresponding Imaginary Energy is not actually non-existent and only the Real part, if HooH merely divides all things in Real Space through the Imaginary Space, then there’s no real contradiction with Aeons themselves scaling through HooH’s Imaginary Part which is nondual to Real Space whilst themselves not being nondual.

But like, see how ridiculous this sounds lol? Imaginary literally “makes non-existence” and “makes logic” and whatever. This is such a goofy verse but these are genuinely the conclusion we come following these scans. Luckily, the verse specifies that the Imaginary has “parts” that correspond to each concept so it wouldn’t be all nondual or all beyond logic, just it’s corresponding Aeonic parts. But its still kinda stupid imo, and would neverthless bump the whole thing to Low 1-A.

 

[Vietthai96]

Too much interpretation for my liking but whatever

 

[SuperNova55555]

Aigh. I think we js need an admin opinion now.

 

[Vietthai96]

Aigh. I think we js need an admin opinion now.

You need to wait for Qaw replies and also likely Ultima too, because he was against Low 1-A Honkai before, better see his opinion first or another Low 1-A downgrade looming on the horizon if this thread pass

 

[SuperNova55555]

You need to wait for Qaw replies and also likely Ultima too, because he was against Low 1-A Honkai before, better see his opinion first or another Low 1-A downgrade looming on the horizon if this thread pass

I’ve been told Ultima doesn’t wanna see this thread or sum

 

[Vietthai96]

translate into, i will downgrade it in the future when i feel like it

 

[SuperNova55555]

translate into, i will downgrade it in the future when i feel like it

Maybe if this game was called Castlevania: Star Rail he would

 

[Vietthai96]

Maybe if this game was called Castlevania: Star Rail he would

Imagine Honkai collab with Castlevania in the future. Well, there is a reason for Ultima to do something now

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Only Imaginary (Path) Space will be Low 1-A, nothing else. The “real” parts of the cosmology are still just 11D.

Isnt the physical plane of the imaginary tree 12D?

 

[SuperNova55555]

Isnt the physical plane of the imaginary tree 12D?

I mean with time yea. But I usually just refer to spatial dimensions

 

[PedjaTarzan]

i prefer h1C it looks prettier than ugly 1-B

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

i prefer h1C it looks prettier than ugly 1-B

This is an indexing site. Not someone's Instagram account filled with filters.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

It works now, but a TLDR and refresh on what staff members voted for and against would be nice. As it looks like the OP only updated the agreeing parts.

can you check it out now?