[Staff needed] Destiny: Abilities Revision (Specific Paracausal Changes)

[WHYNAUT]

The title is a lie. The first two changes are general, the rest are tied to specific abilities.

---

Spoiler: Acausality Type 1

Paracausal entities should get Type 1 Acausality. I'll start off with the strongest piece of evidence:

"Yesterday, scouts discovered temporarily realigned architecture just outside the stronghold limits. The Vex had retroactively inserted themselves into Neptune's history... just like they did on Venus. But unlike Venus, something stopped them short of our habitat. They had to fight their way in. I think it's the Veil. Something about the paracausal nature of the Veil is preventing their temporal excursions."

Here it's indicated that paracausal entities in general do not adhere to the butterfly effect:

"So, we're paracausal, right? Effect and cause all shaken up, no connection. Everything else is connected forward and back through time. Tug on the butterfly here and make a cyclone there."

Lastly there's the case of Mara Sov, who became fully paracausal as she walked the path to godhood:

"Esila says that you are keeping a secret from your brother that he must never know. I think the secret is thus: You are now a god because one day you will become a god, and a god is not temporal."

Spoiler: Law Manipulation

Paracausality in general should probably come with Law Manipulation. Currently there's two scans which are used as evidence for Sword Logic users having this ability, but they seem to attribute it to paracausality in general.

First off is this statement about Auryx as he grows in paracausal power:

"You’ve done well, Auryx. Can you feel the growth of your worm? Can you feel your will beginning to warp mere law?"

Not long after that we get this piece of information:

"You are no longer bound by causal closure. Your will defeats law. Kill a hundred of your children with a long blade, Auryx, and observe the change in the blade."

And here is a similar statement for the Light as proof that the previous ones aren't exclusive to the Darkness:

"They already knew much about the Light. How it could bend the laws of the universe and create life."

Spoiler: Resonance: Vibration Manipulation and Information Manipulation

Resonance users should get Vibration Manipulation and Type 2 Information Manipulation.

- As far as the former is concerned, well it's already in the name: 'Resonance'. It's also already accepted on multiple pages with various scans, so this is really just to add it to any pages that are still missing the ability.

- Information Manipulation is the big one.
All of creation is part of a game played by the Gardener and the Winnower, with this game being compared to Conway's Game of Life:

"These are the rules of a game. Let it be played upon an infinite two-dimensional grid of flowers. Rule One. A living flower with less than two living neighbors is cut off. It dies. Rule Two. A living flower with two or three living neighbors is connected. It lives. Rule Three. A living flower with more than three living neighbors is starved and overcrowded. It dies. Rule Four. A dead flower with exactly three living neighbors is reborn. It springs back to life. The only play permitted in the game is the arrangement of the initial flowers. This game fascinates kings. This game occupies the very emperors of thought. Though it has only four rules, and the board is a flat featureless grid, in it you will find changeless blocks, stoic as iron, and beacons and whirling pulsars, as well as gliders that soar out to infinity, and patterns that lay eggs and spawn other patterns, and living cells that replicate themselves wholly. In it, you may construct a universal computer with the power to simulate, very slowly, any other computer imaginable and thus simulate whole realities, including nested copies of the flower game itself. And the game is undecidable. No one can predict exactly how the game will play out except by playing it. And yet this game is nothing compared to the game played by the gardener and the winnower. It resembles that game as a seed does a flower—no, as a seed resembles the star that fed the flower and all the life that made it." - The Flower Game

"Oryx knew that all life could be described as cellular automata, except for that life which understood the Deep or the Sky, and thus escaped causality."

"SHAPES AND GLIDERS. I dreamt of existence as a game of cellular automata. In this metaphor, there were only two things: shapes in the game world and the rules of the game world. The rules were the rules of Life and Death. I understood that the sword was the desire to escape existence as a shape in the game and to become the rule that made the shapes. This rule said only "live" or "die"—it had no other outputs. It could not keep secrets. Against it was the desire to become a shape so complex that it could within itself play other games." - Tyrannocide I

"It's impossible for a cellular automata game to change its own rules, but it is possible to create subgames with their own rules, and for those subgames to yield advantage in the master game."

"There was a game of possibilities. Patterns emerged that could—would—flourish or fail, wax or wane. And in the gaps between, there was nothing. But nothing is an absence, defined by all the things that might one day be and yet never find fruition. It is an entropy of existence. For nothing to become something is as simple as a flipped bit, a chance mutation, a fallen leaf. Once it has become, it has always become, for castles are less fragile when built by something than nothing." - Tesselation

This is further enforced by statement of all realities being programs executing laws:

"Stop talking about 'real' and 'unreal.' All realities are programs executing laws."

"If physics is a set of rules that the cosmos uses to calculate itself, perhaps the Vex seek to worm their way into these calculations: to become a law of reality, inseparable from existence."

So what does all of this have to do with Resonance? In order to answer this it must first be established that Resonance is the basis for all other Darkness powers/manifestations:

"I know more of Darkness now. It is not violence. It is something more: something that hums and flows and resonates, knife or song by equal measure."

This is also shown when the Guardian merges Light and Darkness, with Darkness being represented by Resonance.

Now both Hive magic, which is a Darkness power, and engrams share a connection that can reveal the fundamental workings of reality. Note that just like in the above statement there's an emphasis on music/song:

"ASSOCIATIONS: Engram; Graphemics; Hive; Music; Paracausal; Quantum Field Theory; Relativity; Runes; Song" "Engram precepts—not just prototypical but in sum—could be cynosural of a recondite gestalt. Procuring a modal sample from the Hive and comparing it to their runic syntax might be key to its graphemics and, ultimately, ambages to the protological patterns underlying quantum field theory, relativity, and paracausal phenomena." "A comparative study of Hive hymnody and graphonomy might—as part of a larger cerebrative process examining engrams through the window of fundamental theories of reality—reveal an ungirding pattern of tonal morphemes that…" "Both causal and paracausal laws of the universe might… share a common… language. Getting a sample of the Hive's… music… will help me… study it." - Ghost Fragment: Gimble-4's Ghost

And what is engram exactly? It's an extra state of matter in Destiny, namely the encoding of matter:

"We now know there to be four: solid, liquid, gas and engram. Of these, the engram is the purest state of matter. The role of the Cryptarchy is to encrypt and safeguard civilization's informational infrastructure..."

"That leap was the first successful encoding of solid matter by Doctor Willa Bray opening a window to the wonderful and mysterious world of the engram."

"What is the value of secrets in attaining victory? Simply thus: All life is reducible to information. The difference between a cloud of atoms and a Human being is in the arrangement of those atoms, which is information. You prove this every time you use your transmat, which destroys your physical form but preserves the information encoded in it. All the qualities of a person, a species, or a galactic civilization may be stored as information." - Thetis Brave

Deepsight, which is another power derived from Resonance, can tap into memory of reality in order to physically reshape or manifest objects:

"So, the Relic rendered a full blueprint out of a single fragment. Almost as if you were shaping that weapon based on its own memory."

Ghost: "These old, half-forgotten pathways... that power you're using is making them real again. Rebuilding them through memory." Ikora "Rey: Hopefully, Sagira's shell holds that same potential. With the right concentration of psychic energy, a resonant memory connected to her shell will manifest. But this is all theoretical still. It's never been done." - The Mirror

Lastly, the Caretaker can use Resonance to cast 'Sacred Dematerialization' to instantly kill a raid team.

Spoiler: Inquisition of Self and Souls

The Inquisition of Self ability should lose Information Manipulation, its Conceptual Manipulation should be changed to Type 3 and Souls in Destiny should be treated as Type 3 Concepts.

- Years ago I got Information Manipulation added because this ability can manipulate the essences of beings, but the scans can all be explained as Conceptual Manipulation and don't fit the Information Manipulation criteria.

- I think this ability got added before the current Type 3 Conceptual Manipulation became a thing. Either way the essences of beings are clearly personal 'concepts', rather than universal ones:

"One such is now sung in the key of pain—Azavath's truth, the all of her, torn free with a surgeon's grace. Malkanth's ears bleed as her sister's unmaking reveals her being."

"Yet, you would allow poor, sweet Azavath to give all of herself for you—to extinguish her essence that you might take her place. But her essence is not the whole of it. What of her gift? The melody that echoes in her soul is a rare treasure."

- Since essences/souls are Type 3 Concepts, that means that all cases of Soul Manipulation/Resistance should have this added.

Spoiler: Deathsongs

Deathsongs retain Information Manipulation and get Type 3 Concept Manipulation and Soul Manipulation.

- Deathsongs are accepted as having Type 2 Information Manipulation for destroying essences, but this no longer applies. However, they have very explicit statement of being capable of bringing about the end of anything and killing things very thoroughly. I'd argue that this, in combination with what was discussed in the Information Manipulation section of Resonance, means Deathsongs keep IM:

"The song is death. To hear it is to die. To know the words is mortal. Oh, good point, Eriana, death is just a word, isn't it? A catch-all term for the failure to go on, nothing spiritual, nothing with its own quiddity. We all died once, and it did not prove insurmountable. But what if what if what if, shhh listen, what if death were reified, described in its totality, made autonomous and universal, separate from any context or condition? What if She could invoke the ending of anything?" - Ir Yût, the Deathsinger

"I, too, am detached from my source. The charming Ir Yût made her introductions, and I was very pleased to meet her. We had a conversation, a little tête-à-Yût, a couple old wizards exchanging definitions. I defined myself a friend. She defined for me the quiddity of death, and she sang the song of that fearful autonomy. Revelation, my friends, it does go down hard. The definition killed me. The killing redefined me." - Ghost Fragment: The Hellmouth

"The followers of Crota swing Hammers, Sing death-songs: Fatal. Final. Absolute."

- Deathsongs can shatter essences, so they get Type 3 Concept Manipulation and Soul Manipulation:

"A lullaby hits the ear of Akrazul who is now Azavath. As it shatters his essence, a tear crusts and clumps in the corner of his eye."

Spoiler: Throne Worlds: Nigh-Omniscience

Throne World users should have Nigh-Omniscience within their Throne Worlds:

"I feel joy, and sorrow. I feel them as titanic things, because I am larger than my body, my mind is now a cosmos of its own."

“I shall keep my glorious mind cosmos inside a titanic warship.”

"Awoken message traffic indicates the Dreadnaught weapon is innately connected with Oryx's intellect and awareness. The instant He pierced the Dreaming City, He must have understood the value of the site and deployed His Taken to attack."

"You're back! What a surprise. Only joking. This throne world is indistinguishable from my own mind, Guardian. Every step taken, every bullet fired, every thought whispered... I keep and count them all. Remember that."

"I hate being in Savathûn's throne world. I can feel her eyes on us wherever we are. Even when she was dead, it felt like she was watching us. And now... I know she is."

Conclusion

• Paracausal entites get Acausality Type 1
• Paracausal entities get Law Manipulation
• Resonance users get Vibration Manipulation and Information Manipulation Type 2
• Inquisition of Self ability loses Information Manipulation Type 2 and Conceptual Manipulation gets changed to Type 3
• Souls are Type 3 Concepts and pages get edited to reflect this accordingly
• Deathsongs retain Information Manipulation Type 2 and get Concept Manipulation Type 3 and Soul Manipulation
• Throne World users get Nigh-Omniscience within their Throne Worlds

Agree: @Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye, @Hasty12345, @Deonment, @sukuna171, @Eseseso (except Type 1 Acausality), @Sakamaki_Fuji, @Rakih_Elyan, @DarkDragonMedeus, @CrimsonStarFallen

Disagree:

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I’ve not played since The Witness but looks good. I agree.

 

[WHYNAUT]

I’ve not played since The Witness but looks good. I agree.

Most of this is actually from before Final Shape. It just took a while for me to get to this revision.

 

[Hasty12345]

Looks fine

 

[Deonment]

Looks good, though I have a bit to comment on in addition

Spoiler: Law Manipulation

Paracausality in general should probably come with Law Manipulation. Currently there's two scans which are used as evidence for Sword Logic users having this ability, but they seem to attribute it to paracausality in general.

First off is this statement about Auryx as he grows in paracausal power:

"You’ve done well, Auryx. Can you feel the growth of your worm? Can you feel your will beginning to warp mere law?"

Not long after that we get this piece of information:

"You are no longer bound by causal closure. Your will defeats law. Kill a hundred of your children with a long blade, Auryx, and observe the change in the blade."

And here is a similar statement for the Light as proof that the previous ones aren't exclusive to the Darkness:

"They already knew much about the Light. How it could bend the laws of the universe and create life."

You also have the Thousand Wings passage, which reinforces the idea that these powers, which are channelled through the demiurge, dictate the laws of reality and what can and can't be

Spoiler: Resonance: Vibration Manipulation and Information Manipulation

Resonance users should get Vibration Manipulation and Type 2 Information Manipulation.

- As far as the former is concerned, well it's already in the name: 'Resonance'. It's also already accepted on multiple pages with various scans, so this is really just to add it to any pages that are still missing the ability.

- Information Manipulation is the big one.
All of creation is part of a game played by the Gardener and the Winnower, with this game being compared to Conway's Game of Life:

"These are the rules of a game. Let it be played upon an infinite two-dimensional grid of flowers. Rule One. A living flower with less than two living neighbors is cut off. It dies. Rule Two. A living flower with two or three living neighbors is connected. It lives. Rule Three. A living flower with more than three living neighbors is starved and overcrowded. It dies. Rule Four. A dead flower with exactly three living neighbors is reborn. It springs back to life. The only play permitted in the game is the arrangement of the initial flowers. This game fascinates kings. This game occupies the very emperors of thought. Though it has only four rules, and the board is a flat featureless grid, in it you will find changeless blocks, stoic as iron, and beacons and whirling pulsars, as well as gliders that soar out to infinity, and patterns that lay eggs and spawn other patterns, and living cells that replicate themselves wholly. In it, you may construct a universal computer with the power to simulate, very slowly, any other computer imaginable and thus simulate whole realities, including nested copies of the flower game itself. And the game is undecidable. No one can predict exactly how the game will play out except by playing it. And yet this game is nothing compared to the game played by the gardener and the winnower. It resembles that game as a seed does a flower—no, as a seed resembles the star that fed the flower and all the life that made it." - The Flower Game

"Oryx knew that all life could be described as cellular automata, except for that life which understood the Deep or the Sky, and thus escaped causality."

"SHAPES AND GLIDERS. I dreamt of existence as a game of cellular automata. In this metaphor, there were only two things: shapes in the game world and the rules of the game world. The rules were the rules of Life and Death. I understood that the sword was the desire to escape existence as a shape in the game and to become the rule that made the shapes. This rule said only "live" or "die"—it had no other outputs. It could not keep secrets. Against it was the desire to become a shape so complex that it could within itself play other games." - Tyrannocide I

"It's impossible for a cellular automata game to change its own rules, but it is possible to create subgames with their own rules, and for those subgames to yield advantage in the master game."

"There was a game of possibilities. Patterns emerged that could—would—flourish or fail, wax or wane. And in the gaps between, there was nothing. But nothing is an absence, defined by all the things that might one day be and yet never find fruition. It is an entropy of existence. For nothing to become something is as simple as a flipped bit, a chance mutation, a fallen leaf. Once it has become, it has always become, for castles are less fragile when built by something than nothing." - Tesselation

This is further enforced by statement of all realities being programs executing laws:

"Stop talking about 'real' and 'unreal.' All realities are programs executing laws."

"If physics is a set of rules that the cosmos uses to calculate itself, perhaps the Vex seek to worm their way into these calculations: to become a law of reality, inseparable from existence."

So what does all of this have to do with Resonance? In order to answer this it must first be established that Resonance is the basis for all other Darkness powers/manifestations:

"I know more of Darkness now. It is not violence. It is something more: something that hums and flows and resonates, knife or song by equal measure."

This is also shown when the Guardian merges Light and Darkness, with Darkness being represented by Resonance.

Now both Hive magic, which is a Darkness power, and engrams share a connection that can reveal the fundamental workings of reality. Note that just like in the above statement there's an emphasis on music/song:

"ASSOCIATIONS: Engram; Graphemics; Hive; Music; Paracausal; Quantum Field Theory; Relativity; Runes; Song" "Engram precepts—not just prototypical but in sum—could be cynosural of a recondite gestalt. Procuring a modal sample from the Hive and comparing it to their runic syntax might be key to its graphemics and, ultimately, ambages to the protological patterns underlying quantum field theory, relativity, and paracausal phenomena." "A comparative study of Hive hymnody and graphonomy might—as part of a larger cerebrative process examining engrams through the window of fundamental theories of reality—reveal an ungirding pattern of tonal morphemes that…" "Both causal and paracausal laws of the universe might… share a common… language. Getting a sample of the Hive's… music… will help me… study it." - Ghost Fragment: Gimble-4's Ghost

And what is engram exactly? It's an extra state of matter in Destiny, namely the encoding of matter:

"We now know there to be four: solid, liquid, gas and engram. Of these, the engram is the purest state of matter. The role of the Cryptarchy is to encrypt and safeguard civilization's informational infrastructure..."

"That leap was the first successful encoding of solid matter by Doctor Willa Bray opening a window to the wonderful and mysterious world of the engram."

"What is the value of secrets in attaining victory? Simply thus: All life is reducible to information. The difference between a cloud of atoms and a Human being is in the arrangement of those atoms, which is information. You prove this every time you use your transmat, which destroys your physical form but preserves the information encoded in it. All the qualities of a person, a species, or a galactic civilization may be stored as information." - Thetis Brave

Deepsight, which is another power derived from Resonance, can tap into memory of reality in order to physically reshape or manifest objects:

"So, the Relic rendered a full blueprint out of a single fragment. Almost as if you were shaping that weapon based on its own memory."

Ghost: "These old, half-forgotten pathways... that power you're using is making them real again. Rebuilding them through memory." Ikora "Rey: Hopefully, Sagira's shell holds that same potential. With the right concentration of psychic energy, a resonant memory connected to her shell will manifest. But this is all theoretical still. It's never been done." - The Mirror

Lastly, the Caretaker can use Resonance to cast 'Sacred Dematerialization' to instantly kill a raid team.

This makes sense, but would this not also get Law/Concept manip, the first from the several mentions of the laws of reality being underpinned to a degree by the nature of the Resonance, being the "common language" shared between the causal and paracausal laws of reality, meanwhile the latter is from the fact that you could draw parallels between Resonance and the Travellers Song Of Life/Creation (which eventually got "corrupted" into the deathsongs), as both are "songs" which seems to underpin reality, in addition to being connected to each of the two major Paracausal Powers of Light and Darkness
(Though I may be explaining this poorly, but ech)

Spoiler: Inquisition of Self and Souls

The Inquisition of Self ability should lose Information Manipulation, its Conceptual Manipulation should be changed to Type 3 and Souls in Destiny should be treated as Type 3 Concepts.

- Years ago I got Information Manipulation added because this ability can manipulate the essences of beings, but the scans can all be explained as Conceptual Manipulation and don't fit the Information Manipulation criteria.

- I think this ability got added before the current Type 3 Conceptual Manipulation became a thing. Either way the essences of beings are clearly personal 'concepts', rather than universal ones:

"One such is now sung in the key of pain—Azavath's truth, the all of her, torn free with a surgeon's grace. Malkanth's ears bleed as her sister's unmaking reveals her being."

"Yet, you would allow poor, sweet Azavath to give all of herself for you—to extinguish her essence that you might take her place. But her essence is not the whole of it. What of her gift? The melody that echoes in her soul is a rare treasure."

- Since essences/souls are Type 3 Concepts, that means that all cases of Soul Manipulation/Resistance should have this added.

Makes sense, though I do wonder if it would make sense to equate this to what Shapes are (or at least ask a question about their relation) given the similar descriptions/natures of the two of being the foundation/truth of a person's being, but also the fact that in the second quote, it also states

will you take your sister's gift and become your final, fleeting shape—rage unleashed, and nothing more, until all are dust?

That taking in the essence of the other will allow her to reach her final shape, without any taking or what have you mess

 

[WHYNAUT]

You also have the Thousand Wings passage, which reinforces the idea that these powers, which are channelled through the demiurge, dictate the laws of reality and what can and can't be

Yeah, I was hesitant to use that one, since it includes non-paracausal beings and only mentions specific species + Lightbearers.

This makes sense, but would this not also get Law/Concept manip, the first from the several mentions of the laws of reality being underpinned to a degree by the nature of the Resonance, being the "common language" shared between the causal and paracausal laws of reality, meanwhile the latter is from the fact that you could draw parallels between Resonance and the Travellers Song Of Life/Creation (which eventually got "corrupted" into the deathsongs), as both are "songs" which seems to underpin reality, in addition to being connected to each of the two major Paracausal Powers of Light and Darkness
(Though I may be explaining this poorly, but ech)

It would be, but those are technically already covered. The former by Paracausality in general already allowing for Law Manipulation, the latter by Darkness users already having non-combat applicable Type 1 Concept Manipulation listed. I can add these scans as extra justification though.

Makes sense, though I do wonder if it would make sense to equate this to what Shapes are (or at least ask a question about their relation) given the similar descriptions/natures of the two of being the foundation/truth of a person's being, but also the fact that in the second quote, it also states

That taking in the essence of the other will allow her to reach her final shape, without any taking or what have you mess

They are either closely related or the same, yes. After Mara Sov got obliterated by Oryx and trapped in his Throne World, she was in pretty bad Shape while traveling the Sea of Screams:

"The voyage across the sea of screams threatens to erode her edges as no other trial ever has. In Oryx's throne world, she had a semblance of an identity. Treasure. Spoil of war. Defeated queen. Repugnant and alien and Not Me, but she could use these contortions as guideposts to trace her way back to herself. Here in the emptiness between throne worlds, she has nothing but what she can carry. The burden is growing heavier, but she is not alone. He tries to speak to her from a place of high contempt. In doing so, he invites her into his topography. She steps out of howling and finds her footing upon a plane of swords and madness and all-consuming curiosity. "Who are you?" The question summons an almost-forgotten answer deep within the rapidly solidifying shape of her. "I AM MARA SOV. STARLIGHT WAS MY MOTHER, AND MY FATHER WAS THE DARK." The thing that once was called Toland flees before her darkness/light/shadow/majesty. And she rests within this scrap of a world, before resuming her journey through the Howling."

And she only gains a new physical body after she reaches her Throne World, which coincides with Eris telling us that Throne Worlds protect the essence and restore the creator's form:

"These are the first words that pass through this throat. Her throat, though it shares none of the molecules that comprised the code of her former body. They scrape and ache as they pass through her lips."

"Behold the vast cathedral of my soul. As Hive, I slit Savathûn’s throat. In doing so, I made an incision into the Ascendant Plane. This became a world. A throne. It will protect my essence and restore my form. Here, I am resurrected."

The word Shape does tend to get used a lot more broadly though. I didn't include it due to lack of concrete information.

 

[Deonment]

Yeah, I was hesitant to use that one, since it includes non-paracausal beings and only mentions specific species + Lightbearers.

I mean, fair, but it seems like (given the exact wording of the passage), the demiurge acts as channels for the power in question rather than having some innate degree of power unto itself, "It is only the thing that converts perfect divine will into imperfect material form"
And seeing as how it specifically calls them out as "These are the things, both constraint and power, which define the universe of possible actions", which reminds me of the flower game analogy destiny loves to use, though the fact that it is mostly used in the context of races does have issues yes, while I could attempt to argue further, that absolutely falls more into the domain of theory than actual presentable fact

It would be, but those are technically already covered. The former by Paracausality in general already allowing for Law Manipulation, the latter by Darkness users already having non-combat applicable Type 1 Concept Manipulation listed. I can add these scans as extra justification though.

They are either closely related or the same, yes. After Mara Sov got obliterated by Oryx and trapped in his Throne World, she was in pretty bad Shape while traveling the Sea of Screams:

"The voyage across the sea of screams threatens to erode her edges as no other trial ever has. In Oryx's throne world, she had a semblance of an identity. Treasure. Spoil of war. Defeated queen. Repugnant and alien and Not Me, but she could use these contortions as guideposts to trace her way back to herself. Here in the emptiness between throne worlds, she has nothing but what she can carry. The burden is growing heavier, but she is not alone. He tries to speak to her from a place of high contempt. In doing so, he invites her into his topography. She steps out of howling and finds her footing upon a plane of swords and madness and all-consuming curiosity. "Who are you?" The question summons an almost-forgotten answer deep within the rapidly solidifying shape of her. "I AM MARA SOV. STARLIGHT WAS MY MOTHER, AND MY FATHER WAS THE DARK." The thing that once was called Toland flees before her darkness/light/shadow/majesty. And she rests within this scrap of a world, before resuming her journey through the Howling."

And she only gains a new physical body after she reaches her Throne World, which coincides with Eris telling us that Throne Worlds protect the essence and restore the creator's form:

"These are the first words that pass through this throat. Her throat, though it shares none of the molecules that comprised the code of her former body. They scrape and ache as they pass through her lips."

"Behold the vast cathedral of my soul. As Hive, I slit Savathûn’s throat. In doing so, I made an incision into the Ascendant Plane. This became a world. A throne. It will protect my essence and restore my form. Here, I am resurrected."

The word Shape does tend to get used a lot more broadly though. I didn't include it due to lack of concrete information.

Yeah, in addition to the fact that all things in the ascendant plane are just their Shapes, rather than being simple matter, the fact that the essence and form are distinguished does point to the idea that they are actually two distinct aspects, though I am unsure how that really works from a metaphysical standpoint, but that could just be the worldbuilder in me talking
Anything I propose about their relationship beyond this would really just be theory (ie, the idea that while the soul is the truth of who you are, innermost essence and all that, the shape is the boundary of it, your identity and individuality, the tautology of your existence)

 

[sukuna171]

Everything looks good, and I particularly agree with the Type 1 Acausality.

 

[sukuna171]

BUMP

 

[Eseseso]

Looks good, but that Acausality one stuff seems more like Type 4 Acausality with some resistance to causality manipulation

 

[WHYNAUT]

Looks good, but that Acausality one stuff seems more like Type 4 Acausality with some resistance to causality manipulation

They already have that. These scans seem to line up very well with the definition for Type 1.

"Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes."

 

[WHYNAUT]

Bump

 

[Deadguy999]

Destiny is dead.. it is one of my fav games

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Did u ask on walls?

 

[WHYNAUT]

I posted in the crt promotion thread first. I'll pester mods later this week if it hasn't received attention by then.

 

[sukuna171]

bump

 

[WHYNAUT]

I posted in the crt promotion thread first. I'll pester mods later this week if it hasn't received attention by then.

Busier than expected, so leaving it at a bump.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Isn't Deathsong already CM type 1 by being totality, made autonomous and universal, separate from any context or condition which is literally CM type 1 definition?

 

[WHYNAUT]

Isn't Deathsong already CM type 1 by being totality, made autonomous and universal, separate from any context or condition which is literally CM type 1 definition?

An ability can have multiple types. The Deathsong inherently includes Type 1 and it can be used to target Type 3 concepts.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

An ability can have multiple types. The Deathsong inherently includes Type 1 and it can be used to target Type 3 concepts.

I mean, sure. It just feel weird since it feel like

Matter manipulation (Macro-Quantum: Can manipulate and Kill quarks.... Molecular: Can create and kill H²O)

I couldn’t mind if it were another ability, but being same it feel strange

 

[WHYNAUT]

Basic Deathsongs don't really have feats for killing Type 1 concepts though. That has been exclusive to Hive Gods in the Ascendant Plane.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Basic Deathsongs don't really have feats for killing Type 1 concepts though. That has been exclusive to Hive Gods in the Ascendant Plane.

Oh so you mean should change regular (no Ascendant) deathsinger Wizards pages to type 3, ok

 

[WHYNAUT]

No, they'd retain Type 1 from the statements you mentioned. I just said that in response to your matter manipulation example, in order to highlight the difference.

 

[sukuna171]

bump

 

[sukuna171]

BUMP

 

[WHYNAUT]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Bump

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Looks pretty good. Approved.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Looks like this crt has been accepted, so ig it can be closed. I'll start applying the changes when I've got the time.