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Is the Tier-1 stuff for the Ones valid or no? Also, which guides and reference books would go under T-canon
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Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode VI Return of the Threadi
- Thread starter Shadowbokunohero
- Start date
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- star wars
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I think we would need to have a broader discussion on this, but it’s best to speak to mods first since your earlier thread was closed. I’ll contact the mods involved in that thread later.
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Would comic runs such as Star Wars: The Clone Wars Comic, Star Wars: The Clone Wars (comic series), Star Wars: The Clone Wars (graphic novellas), Star Wars: The Clone Wars (webcomics), and tie in comics such as Darth Maul-Death Sentence count as T-canon or no?
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Nah.
We follow the canonicity established by the IP owners.
There's only the current canon, and the rest is legends. That's how the canonicity is officially divided by the IP owner.
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But Star Wars isn't just owned by Lucasfilm or Disney, it was authored by George Lucas who had his own canon for Star Wars separate from the Expanded Universe as explained by @Legion350 above.
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It doesn't really matter if George Lucas created it.
It doesn't belong to him anymore; he no longer has the rights to Star Wars. It literally belongs only to Disney, since Disney owns all of this.
Nonynho
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I think they're speaking about separating "Legends" into tinier verses
Soon enough i think we may see Luke, Luke (G-canon), Luke (T-Canon)...But like, it does not matter at all, since every other thing is just Legends and the canon is already stablished
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Disney though has no ownership or control on George Lucas and his own canon and vision of Star Wars as its author.
All that we're suggesting is splitting Legends further between including G, T, C, and S canon and just having G-Canon and T-Canon.
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The Buffyverse has its own Expanded Universe outside of the show, however its creator only considers certain parts of it canon, so it would appropriate to have profiles for that Expanded Universe and the creator's own canon
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George Lucas no longer owns Star Wars and has no further authority over the franchise. Disney literally owns everything related to Star Wars.
Nowadays, George Lucas has as much authority over Star Wars as I do.
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Hi, I didn't see most this conversation until now. Anyways, I just want to clarify what I was proposing. There would be three continuity splits if my idea is accepted. An EU page is the same as Legends. The Lucasfilm page would be from the G+T Canon. The Disney Star Wars continuity remains the same too.I want to make an additional verse page for the pre-sale Lucasfilm stuff. For those who say it's not necessary, there a lot of statements from Lucasfilm showing that they clearly differentiated between their canon and the EU on several occasions over the years. I made a sandbox logging several of these statements.
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He also said "Uh, I don't know. I mean, I've kind of lost control of Star Wars, so it's going off in a different path than what I intended. But the first six are very much mine, and my philosophy. And I think that philosophy sort of, goes beyond any particular time, because it’s based on history, it’s based on philosophy, it’s based on a lot of things. And, you know, the first three basically tell you how democracy turns into a dictatorship and you end up with a tyrant, the Emperor. It’s very important now, where we are now in our political history.”
Full interview here:
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Should the novel Dark Disciple be included too or no?
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All of this happened before the idea of Legends existed, when everything was still as it used to be. After 2014, it was modified to the current canon and Legends.Like, the first mention of "George Lucas's world," that doesn't exist anymore. George Lucas's world doesn't exist anymore; what officially exists is the canon and Legends, which is all released before the division.
What can be done is to modify the canonicity levels of Legends or alter something. For example, I saw some people here questioning whether Clone Wars is also part of Legends or not, since some things could be included in both continuities. Like, for example, Son of Dathomir, which is both canon and Legends, made after the split.
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As Qaw said, there's no point in splitting things off from "Lucasfilm," because it's now Disney. Lucasfilm now produces canon content. In addition to Disney itself having created Legends content.
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Not Mention this will just create more confusion for average people, most people in star wars fandom only consider two things Legends and Canon and nothing else tbh.All of this happened before the idea of Legends existed, when everything was still as it used to be. After 2014, it was modified to the current canon and Legends.Like, the first mention of "George Lucas's world," that doesn't exist anymore. George Lucas's world doesn't exist anymore; what officially exists is the canon and Legends, which is all released before the division.
What can be done is to modify the canonicity levels of Legends or alter something. For example, I saw some people here questioning whether Clone Wars is also part of Legends or not, since some things could be included in both continuities. Like, for example, Son of Dathomir, which is both canon and Legends, made after the split.
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As Qaw said, there's no point in splitting things off from "Lucasfilm," because it's now Disney. Lucasfilm now produces canon content. In addition to Disney itself having created Legends content.
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What's with the recent instances of a few people thinking Canon should be included in the Legends split discussion?All of this happened before the idea of Legends existed, when everything was still as it used to be. After 2014, it was modified to the current canon and Legends.Like, the first mention of "George Lucas's world," that doesn't exist anymore. George Lucas's world doesn't exist anymore; what officially exists is the canon and Legends, which is all released before the division.
What can be done is to modify the canonicity levels of Legends or alter something. For example, I saw some people here questioning whether Clone Wars is also part of Legends or not, since some things could be included in both continuities. Like, for example, Son of Dathomir, which is both canon and Legends, made after the split.
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As Qaw said, there's no point in splitting things off from "Lucasfilm," because it's now Disney. Lucasfilm now produces canon content. In addition to Disney itself having created Legends content.
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Furthermore,
It's already very complicated to organize and update the two current verses.
There's still a lot of outdated stuff because things are slow since they're large verses (and there are few people doing corrections), and that's just for canon. The situation is even worse for Legends.
Imagine making yet another new verse for even more things? There's absolutely no need to do that since we're barely managing to handle what we already have.
Dinobot1996
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From Star Wars Complete Vehicles, New Edition:
So, is impervium supposed to be comparable to plastoid, then? (Well, surely starfighter armor must be far thicker than clone armor either way...)
So, is impervium supposed to be comparable to plastoid, then? (Well, surely starfighter armor must be far thicker than clone armor either way...)
Ruby_R_Dracula
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anyone here has Star Wars Battlefront 2?
if anyone does can y'all check for a specific statement
according to wookiepedia
starwars.fandom.com
kaleesh can smell an individual's origin and the stench of death from afar
and the source is apparently from battlefront 2
if anyone does can y'all check for a specific statement
according to wookiepedia
Kaleesh
The Kaleesh, also known as the Kaleeshi, were a reptilian sentient species from the Wild Space world of Kalee. They had red, scaly skin and possessed the distinctive snake-like, slitted yellow eyes, a flat or snub nose, and elongated, pointed ears, surrounded by two enormous tusks on their lower...
starwars.fandom.com
kaleesh can smell an individual's origin and the stench of death from afar
and the source is apparently from battlefront 2
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Which they've stopped doing
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I'm sure most people when they think of Star Wars think about only the first 6 movies, so going onto here they would expect calculations and feats based on those movies. We haven't done that, the main calculations the we have for both are more or less from feats outside of the main movies. All that we are doing is giving those average people what they want, everything based only on those six movies. (I understand that Clone Wars was created by George Lucas and is outside of the movies, but that's another topic entirely)
Nonynho
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@Phsccarvalho If they really wanna do all this work, let them have it under the Legends and do their stuff. So long as Hagane drops the renaming of the main verse and he reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally wanna have this work, why not? Yeah, it can get confusing...Until people drop by the "Star Wars", which we are taking care of and is not the main focus of those who are leading this project, and just see that it has other smaller and complicated timelines like Marvel has a billion. Many will stay at the Star Wars that we are speaking about the most, so i don't really see this becoming a huuuuuuuge pain
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Yes, but they did it and they can do it again at any time.
In fact, more Legends content derived from Old Republic is always being created.
But that's not how the wiki works. We separate the canon and their names from the official force that the IP owner uses to separate them.
Because that's not how it works.
There is no official canon/continuity that only includes the original films.
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There is, @Legion350 gave the evidence for it
Nonynho
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Unfortunately i gotta reiterate that i have no time for it, and that i'm working on other stuff and invested in other projects of my own
RN i'm (married, for starters, and that occupies a time that i wish was bigger):
-Working (remember i do 99,9% of all this at work lmao)
-waiting for the Yoda Revamp CRT to be authorized by y'all (@Phsccarvalho please look it), where i'll have to defend every argument there whenever the mod gives attention to it
-Revamping the entire Ordem Paranormal verse with a colleague, doing all characters from scratch while he does the scaling
-playing all pokémon games in release order with only a gengar and can't die
Don't count me in for brand-new projects for quite a great while
It kinda is and surprisingly there does seem to be this canon, which is why i thought it's interesting, actually
I think we should have a mod coming here and stating which ways are possible by the rules' standards and (obviously) follow it. How about it?
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Because all these DB continuities are officially divided. DB follows exactly what I said. We only have one profile for the original manga, because we have two official continuities that follow from the manga, Daima and Super. So, merging, for example, the original manga and the Super manga into a single profile called "Character (Dragon Ball manga)" wouldn't be good because Daima also uses versions from the original manga, but going to a different continuity than the Super manga. And even so, we have characters like Goten, who only has a DB manga profile, which is the original manga and the Super manga in one since they are the same continuity. He doesn't have a Daima division because he doesn't have enough content for a profile.
Furthermore, as I said, all these divisions are official, something that "Lucas's vision alone" doesn't officially exist. Disney doesn't separate them in that way.
Half of the blog is about whether Clone Wars is canon or not for Legends, which isn't really about creating profiles of a non-existent continuity based solely on the first six films.
And the first half uses statements that are not only from before the split between canon and Legends, but also from before the Disney acquisition, at a time when Star Wars canon was treated very differently than it is today.
Like, that statement from Lucas.
If Lucas still owned Star Wars and the canon hadn't changed, I think we could make that continuity division, since Lucas talks about the licensing world being an alternate universe to what he does. But that's not how the canon is anymore.
Disney replaced that. Lucas's world was replaced by Disney's. They dictated what the main canon is, and the rest was relegated to Legends.
There isn't an official continuity that's just the six original films without the licensing, as it could have been interpreted before. What officially exists is the new canon made by Disney, and everything else is Legends.
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The thing I noticed is that you didn't mention all the characters and why they don't scale, like, I didn't see the Jedi Masters from the council in your draft, or any explanation of why they don't scale.
Like, you should cover all of 8-A, otherwise people will ask.
Nonynho
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Have you seen the revised version? Which characters are missing?
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As I said, you forgot to mention the council members who have profiles and the Nightsisters who have profiles.
Nonynho
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Aight. Council members are 2min
Tell my why the Nightsisters should be there and who tf are they lol
I know those names but i don't know what are they doing or anything alike
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If I had stuck to my plan of deleting profiles, I would have deleted them already.
Mother Talzin
Mother Talzin is the Clan Mother of the Nightsisters in the waning days of the Galactic Republic. A conniving witch who would do anything to secure the safety of her Dathomirian brethren, her mastery of magic makes her a formidable foe to any Jedi and even the Dark Lord of the Sith himself...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Old Daka
Old Daka was the oldest, wisest, and most powerful of the Nightsister witches during the Clone Wars. Keeper of the Nightsisters lore, the witch performs the Chant of Resurrection during the massacre of her coven, which temporarily gives the Dathomirians the upper hand. Tier: At least 7-B, likely...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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It might be idea to stop thinking in terms of IP ownership and what Disney considers Canon or not, because Disney does not care at all what some nerds on a wiki forum think. We shouldn't have to listen to them. And while Disney is the owner of Star Wars, they are not the author of Star Wars, and are definitely not the author of the original six movies.
And I'm just going to point this out again, an average person going on the wiki to look up a Star Wars character, like Luke, would assume the AP is based on the original 6 movies, which for both Disney and Expanded Universe is not. It's based on feats outside of the movies in works that don't involve Lucas at all, so in a way, we're kind of dishonest here if we say that Luke is High 6-A or 4-B when it's not actually based on the movies.
Nonynho
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i wish you did lolIf I had stuck to my plan of deleting profiles, I would have deleted them already.
Mother Talzin
Mother Talzin is the Clan Mother of the Nightsisters in the waning days of the Galactic Republic. A conniving witch who would do anything to secure the safety of her Dathomirian brethren, her mastery of magic makes her a formidable foe to any Jedi and even the Dark Lord of the Sith himself...Old Daka
Old Daka was the oldest, wisest, and most powerful of the Nightsister witches during the Clone Wars. Keeper of the Nightsisters lore, the witch performs the Chant of Resurrection during the massacre of her coven, which temporarily gives the Dathomirians the upper hand. Tier: At least 7-B, likely...
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Nonynho
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Those alternative Episode 3 posters SUCK ASS omfg i'm glad i have never seen them
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But that's how this Wiki works, Qaw made that very clear in his crt.
Dude, Disney literally owns these movies.
Disney can literally do anything with them. Disney can add new things, edit and remove and update the original movies on Disney+ whenever they want and make it canon. Disney can even remake these movies and say that the remakes are the new canon for both canon and legends.
Since Disney owns Star Wars and can do anything with it.
Luke has two profiles, Canon and Legends. Both profiles have movie keys (ESB and ROJ). Anyone who enters the canon Luke profile will immediately know that it's about the current canon content of Star Wars. The same goes for Legends.
It's extremely easy to see that canon Luke obviously follows Disney canon while Legends Luke follows Legends content, with some things in common (the original films and CW films).
Furthermore, that's not how VS Battle indexes characters and things.
We don't isolate media and create separate profiles; we see the universe as a whole to do the powerscaling.
We're not going to ignore the rest of the canon and only powerscale the first six films; that doesn't exist. We don't do that, especially when it doesn't officially exist.
These films no longer exist in isolation; the division of canon envisioned by Lucas no longer exists.
There's no dishonesty here.
Luke ROJ from the canon continuity would be 6-A for scaling from High Republic characters (or scaling from characters who scale from those characters).
While Luke ROJ from the Legends continuity scales to 5-B derived from a feat by Yarael Poof.
They scale for feats coming from canonical content within their own continuities.
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As I said, there is no continuity where the 6 original films exist in isolation. And since that doesn't exist, we're not going to index them.
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