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Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode VI Return of the Threadi

Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
Maybe we should create a Star Wars page that is purely G-canon only
Click to expand...
If we were going to subdivide Star Wars pages further by canon, then I think the three pages would be Star Wars (Lucas Licensing/EU) Star Wars (Lucasfilm), and Star Wars (Disney Continuity). However, going through the Holocron Canon labeling system, it doesn’t make sense to separate Clone Wars information from a Star Wars Lucasfilm page.

"
There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don't intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don't get too involved in the parallel universe."

TOTAL FILM: "The Star Wars universe has expanded far beyond the movies. How much leeway do the game makers and novel writers have?"LUCAS: "They have their own kind of world. There's three pillars of Star Wars. I'll probably get in trouble for this but it's OK! There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman [president of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three different pillars don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and they are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it's hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, 'OK, go ahead.' In the early days I told them that they couldn't do anything about how Darth Vader was born, for obvious reasons, but otherwise I pretty much let them do whatever they wanted. They created this whole amazing universe that goes on for millions of years!"TOTAL FILM: "Are you happy for new Star Wars tales to be told after you're gone?"LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."

"I haven't limited myself with what stories I've wanted to tell; this is Star Wars, and I don't make a distinction between the series and the films. It's just a different format and a different delivery. But the fact of the matter is that our improved processes for the stories have allowed us to tell consistently bigger stories. Our teams are constantly pushing the envelope, so that the standard keeps raising itself higher and higher. And we keep asking for more than can be delivered, so we're always reaching and the show is always improving. Each week is a Star Wars feature, boiled down to 22 minutes."

Sources:
2001

2008

2011
 
Ms.Luzifer said:
woah

why
Click to expand...
I remember the argument was that the Force Lightning didn't damage the ships (it only shut them down because of the electricity), so the calculation was wrong. I can't send you the link now, but you can go to Sidious's profile and check the history; maybe the removal CRT link is there.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
I remember the argument was that the Force Lightning didn't damage the ships (it only shut them down because of the electricity), so the calculation was wrong. I can't send you the link now, but you can go to Sidious's profile and check the history; maybe the removal CRT link is there.
Click to expand...
ah. but I when I was saying that, I was thinking on if that feat was calced like how Hagane calced force lightning earlier, how powerful it would be
vsbattles.fandom.com

Power of Palpatine's Force Lightning

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
I didn't want to do this as not only was I mainly calculating for G-canon, it felt unnecessary considering that we already have a High 6-A feat to use
Click to expand...
ah ic ic
but me like more calcs on the pages

(kinda find it funny that Canon has more AP calcs than speed calcs while Legends has the opposite)
 

Title: (Star Wars) "Reforms, we need, yes? Hmm" (Major stats update + Yoda complete revamp)​

​

(Powered by @Hagane_no_Saiyajin and @Phsccarvalho, without them, this would not be possible at all)​


Greetings!

With the course of this last month, we reached the conclusion of a few calculations and researches and I proudly present 4 big topics that will affect a huge bunch of the verse

1: High 6-A AP (and some more)​

This calc got approved, and a lot of people are affected by it, since we see some of the most impressive Jedi and Sith  ever in current times, what our canon is more focused at, most of the time, when speaking about Force-wielders and their journeys across the galaxy.

{Friendly reminder that profiles may not be 100% up to date after this, possibly needing their own individual attention later}
  • Ahsoka Tano (Despite the first key indexing her time as a padawan, it also speaks about fighting Asajj Ventress and Grievous, who can contend with Jedi Masters and much more. Not only that, but she grows on her second and third keys to be possibly the strongest Jedi that ever lived)
  • Anakin Skywalker (Even in his CW key, he already had a midichlorian count greater than Yoda, already enough to put him as a great Force wielder, but he is already capable to train Ahsoka with skills enough to survive the war, thing that many masters weren't capable. By the point of RotS he was able to end Count Dooku, one of the most impressive Force wielders of the previous generation)
  • Asajj Ventress (Able to contend with Dooku and Yoda for a brief period, despite being no match for them it already makes evident being higher than who performed the feat justifying the rate)
  • Cal Kestis (Able to survive a Post-Rebels Vader, despite being no match for him it already makes evident being higher than who performed the feat justifying the rate)
  • Cere Junda (Able to contend a Post-Rebels Vader for a brief period, despite being no match for him it already makes evident being higher than who performed the feat justifying the rate)
  • Count Dooku (Former-padawan to Yoda, he was one of the greatest Force-wielders of his generation, being able to easily defeat CWs Obi-Wan and Anakin and superior to Grievous, who easily dealt with many Jedi masters)
  • Darth Sidious (In his Endor key, he is superior in Force-wielding to Yoda and vastly superior to RotS Anakin and only a Post-Rebels Ahsoka, one of the greatest Force wielders that ever lived, was stated to contend with him. Post-Endor, he is vastly superior and would only be barred by a collective effort from various Force Spirits buffing and helping Rey, a feat never done before or since, to our knowledge)
  • Darth Maul (Could contend with various great Force-wielders throught his life, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka Tano mainly, more than once, being regarded by Sidious as a superb duelist and a loss greater than Dooku, in some regards to his plan)
  • Darth Vader (Great in basically everything that he proposes, the Sith Lord is definetely one of the most powerful Force-wielders that ever lived, being barred only by Obi-Wan and Sidious, his masters, in his Post-Mustafar key, and only Sidious stood superior to him in his Post-Rebels key while )
  • Ezra Bridger (Together with his master has moved an asteroid and would later be able to survive a meeting with a Rebels Vader)
  • Kanan Jarrus (Together with his padawan has moved an asteroid and would later be able to survive a meeting with a Rebels Vader)
  • Luke Skywalker ( [First key excluded] ESB Luke is stated to be able to fight Post-Rebels Vader, which by itself is quite the achievement, but his RoJ self is stated to be a menace to both Vader and Sidious, and his Sequels' self should be more powerful, quite possibly turning him the most powerful Jedi ever)
  • Mace Windu (Depending on the media telling the story, he was either stalemated or winning against Sidious both due to his lightsaber wielding and due to the usage of the Force)
  • Obi-Wan Kenobi (Obi has been always able to outperform the most amazing of the foes, Maul, Post-Mustafar Vader and Grievous, for some, and mixing his youth and recklessness with Force-wielding has deemed him a very important member of the last Jedi Council, according to basically every other member at the time.)
  • Qui-Gon Jinn (A very similar statement to Obi-Wan, this time by every member according to a book, his questioning and unique comprehension of the Force made impressive Force-wielders such as Yoda and Dooku change at least a bit how they thought about the Force, with Dooku having inner monologues about what a padawan meant for his life and Yoda being taught by him about Force spirits, which made Yoda meditate a lot to change how he saw the Force itself)
  • Tarre Vizsla (Staying in the same way ("Possibly"/ "Likely") as he is always stated to be a famous and very powerful Jedi while being the Mand'alor, and his Lightsaber is an artifact that justified a war between Mandalorians and Jedi, just for the above-mentioned reasons)
  • Yoda (Stated many times as the most powerful Jedi, being regarded as wise and strong from the High-Republic times all the way to the Clone Wars Era, being able to make even the powerful Darth Sidious think about leaving the fight scene when they met in RotS)



  • But there are some people who are affected because they can deal with Force Wielders without Force Push simply turning them into less than dust, so I think at least in AP or Durability they should also scale, and if just one or the other gets accepted, I'll mark it

    -General Grievous (has dealt with numerous Jedi during the Clone Wars, collecting their Lightsabers as trophies)

    -Boba Fett* (Wearing a Beskar'gam and being the  second greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy, he has dealt with Jedi more than once and was even about to murder Luke early in the story before he got interrupted, being the one who even told Vader about his son being alive (the same Vader who he could try blastering from far away, where we don't know for sure if it would mean the end of the Sith Lord or not))

    -Din "Mando" Djarin* (Also wearer of a Beskar'gam, he has shown in the end of Book Of Boba Fett and in his own so-far-3-season show that he is superior to basically every character that appear on them, including 9BBY Boba Fett, in the matter of fighting, reaching the point of getting adult Ahsoka at gunpoint and being able to react to her pretty well, ending the fight in peaceful terms quite easily.)

    -Din "Baby Yoda" Grogu's Possible Durability* (he may have not reached the point of a Jedi Knight yet in AP, but he wears a custom Beskar armor, which I think justifies this durability because of the material)

    -The Armorer (Yet another Beskar'gam, but there are also her equipment that could beat up soldiers with Beskar-Alloy armors and she sparred against The Darksaber in Din Djarin's hands with them)

    *- We have also approved earlier that Beskar'gam wearers scale to Force wielders at least to a "Possibly" level due to Anti-Jedi equipment being a thing

    2: Relativistic Speed
    This calc was also accepted, and it affects basically every major player in the Verse too, due to them being more or less equal speedwise and able to deflect and/or react to blasters' shots with ease, since they're trained to do so right from the beginning (aside from Mr. Attack On the Wookies, justifying my point that not all Jedi Masters should be scaling to the same stats, as not all of them are good with the 'saber), while some have keys or the entire profile being above CW Obi-Wan, the one who performed the feat

    Ahsoka Tano
    Anakin Skywalker
    The Armorer*
    Boba Fett
    Cal Kestis
    Cad Bane*
    Cara Dune*
    Cere Junda
    Count Dooku
    Darth Sidious ([Second key excluded])
    Darth Maul
    Darth Vader
    Din Djarin
    Ezra Bridger (Possibly)
    General Grievous
    Kanan Jarrus (Possibly)
    IG-11 (Profile titled IG-88, mention that it scales to the model)*
    Jango Fett (somewhat reacted to Windu, Boba is also a Clone of his)
    Luke Skywalker ([First key excluded])
    Mace Windu
    Moff Gideon*
    Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Tarre Vizsla (Possibly)
    Yoda

    *-Those should have a "Possibly", "At most" or something alike due to reacting/scaling to Din Djarin who was in equal terms speedwise with Adult Ahsoka

    3: Enhanced Vehicular Mastery for some

    See, Vehicular Mastery is standard for every Jedi afaik, but while we still do not know 100% for sure how many MpH/KmH (or any acceleration measurement desired) is equal to 1 MGLT (the measurement for ships in the verse), we know they reach interplanetary distances in minutes while on the range of 20~40MGLT, while those that i'll mention are piloting some of the fastest vehicles ever recorded, fluctuating from 75 to 100+ MGLT, IMO justifying the Enhanced ability

    -Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader (Both profiles; Known as the best pilot of the Jedi Order, and Obi-Wan describes him to Luke as the best pilot in the galaxy. As Vader, pilots his own personal TIE, the 35th fastest thing ever recorded at 105MGLT)

    -Din "Mando" Djarin (He goes from piloting a barely qualifiable vehicle to piloting the 8th fastest thing without any effort, outperforming X-Wings and Imperial ships with not much difficult even in Razor Crest, having even less so with the second ship)

    -Han Solo / Chewbacca (They pilot a vehicle at 75MGLT, and scale to one another who have been able react to something appearing in the end of the way while still on hyperspace and pilot the ship our of the way (basically despite piloting the slowest qualified ship, they should be the most skilled, since they were old when performing the feat))

    -...Kylo Ren (Welp, he pilots his own ship, that goes at 140MGLT, 4th fastest ship ever)

    -Stormtroopers (Knights of Ren (who don't have a profile so I'll put here) and Imperial Pilot Troopers simply pilot the fastest things ever recorded, including 155MGLT, the fastest ship ever, justifying at least a possibly)

    -Yoda (Despite usually leaving it to droids, Clones or something alike, on a sudden mission to find Qui-Gon Jinn in Dagobah he piloted Anakin's ship, without much (if any) assistance from R2-D2 who would have memorized the way to Dagobah and easied out finding Yoda at Episode 5, which is impressive since everyone who pilots this type of ship relies quite heavily in the astromech Droid that goes with them)

    4: Fear Manipulation (and Aura) Resistance for some

    Darth Sidious, much like a great bunch of profiles, has to be updated in a bunch of things. Palpatine has Aura and Fear Manipulation in it, and it gets resisted by a few brave fellas, so beside adding it to his profile, the resistance should be given to:

    (Himself, yeah)

    Anakin Skywalker
    Darth Vader
    Luke Skywalker
    Mace Windu
    Yoda

    My favorite part, this one is:
    Watchful eyes may have seen that Yoda is included in all 4, but he has quite some more still! I very proudly present...

    5: Grandmaster Yoda and his complete Revamp!

    More than 120 pieces of media were used to base this article, be it games, magazines, books, guides, literally Samuel L. Jackson, educational workbooks, everything,

    This is the result of this work!


    So, after this very long thing, opinions are very welcome!

    Parts 1~4-

    Agree:
    Disagree:
    Neutral:

    Part 5-

    Agree:
    Disagree:
    Neutral:
Click to expand...
 
Know what?
Get an Yoda image uploaded, put in that formula and give me that
Will be putting in the sandbox if it works out
 
noninho said:
Know what?
Get an Yoda image uploaded, put in that formula and give me that
Will be putting in the sandbox if it works out
Click to expand...
Yoda Force Ghost.png


Yoda Og Trilogy .png (because I hate imgs with backgrounds)

oh wait I misread give me a moment
 
[[File:Yoda Og Trilogy .png|right|400px]] (might need to resize this img so uh if it's too big change it to 300px or smth)

[[File:Yoda Force Ghost.png|center|400px]]
 


The 4 tests, Test 2 sucked less but the image is quite low-qualy, can't you please get a better quality one?
Also Center is a no-no, veeeeeeeery ugly
 
Star Wars fights if they actually used Force Speed:

NfWjLX2.gif
 
Last edited:
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
What's exactly the difference, and isn't it more Star Wars (Lucas Licensing) and Star Wars (Lucasfilm/EU)
Click to expand...
No. According to Lucasfilm on several occasions, they only considered the Expanded Universe [now Legends] to be the material from Lucas Licensing. The EU branches from the Lucasfilm content, but as a "parallel" universe. it's mentioned they could pull from the EU at any time but were not required to follow it. Star Wars (Lucasfilm) = G & T canon. Star Wars (EU) = Lucas Licensing + Higher Canon [plot]. Star Wars (Disney) = Current Continuity.

Interviewer: "Do you consider "The Clone Wars" canon or part of the Expanded Universe? Is the old Cartoon Network show canon? How do the two relate and where do the two series fit in the Star Wars Universe?"
Filoni: "That's one of the biggest debates in Star Wars, what counts? The idea of what is canon? When I talk to George I know that he considers his movies, this series and his live-action series canon. And yet as a fan, I bring him a lot of information that is in the Expanded Universe and say, well this was done and this was done too. I get that information in front of him to see how he wants to use it or review it. I'll try to add little touches and things that I know that the fans that are well versed in the Expanded Universe will know; what we can work in from the Expanded Universe really does gel. But there's never an implicit connection between the micro-series that Cartoon Network did previously and the series that we're doing now. I personally as a fan never think of it as discrediting any of the other material, it's just that other material is from a different point of view, a different look at the war and take on the war. It's an ever-Expanding Universe in a lot of ways."
Source [Oct 2008]

"T-canon in its entirety is not supposed to be considered part of the EU pillar, but part of the Lucas pillar."
Source [May 2008]

"We could come up with ideas and present them to him immediately, so there was no concern as to whether or not it "was" Star Wars. This series at least to George is NOT EU, it is a part of Star Wars as he sees it. I think if anything there was a period where Henry and I had to learn exactly what it took to be a part of George Lucas' Star Wars, and tell the Star Wars story his way. We had to learn how to look at the Galaxy from his point of view and let go of some of what we considered canon after we found out the ideas were only EU. Really we had to "unlearn what we had learned" and go back to the movies as the defining source material."
Source [Dec 2008]

"'G' canon and 'T' canon comprise George Lucas's vision of the Star Wars universe. 'C' canon and 'S' canon comprise the vision of the Star Wars universe held by Lucas Licensing that goes beyond George Lucas's vision. This material is collectively referred to as the Expanded Universe."

"The EU is a well of ideas, and there's what's on screen. They don't live in the same universe. Everyone wants to think so, I know, and there is a lot of effort to make it all work, but it's pretty clear when you start really looking at it that when you take ideas from the printed realm and bring it on screen, it's not always the same. They relate. There are similarities. I still enjoy a lot of those stories. They influence you. They inspire you, which I think is the whole point of having an EU. We try hard to honor things when we can, to give nods to things, but at the end of the day there is a difference between what you see in the Star Wars films and TV series and what you see in those books. It's mainly because writing for the visual medium is different, as Henry Gilroy will attest to. I mean, look at the monumental task in the opposite direction that Peter Jackson had to go trough in taking the written form of The Lord of the Rings and trying to distill it onto the screen. There's a lot of difficulty in translating between the written word and the moving image. The writers of the Star Wars books have to somehow capture the energy, the excitement, the snappy dialogue, and all the things we get from the Star Wars world, and put it on a page. That's a very big challenge. We just need to think of it all as a creative collection of fun ideas separate from what George Lucas has made, I think a lot of EU creators think of like that, and like it when they see their creations on screen, whether or not it's used one-to-one as they created it or not."
Dave Filoni Star Wars Insider #134 [June 2012]

"Common questions are: How "real" are these stories? Do they count? Did they really happen?""The most definitive canon of the Star Wars universe is encompassed by the feature films and television productions in which George Lucas is directly involved. The movies and the Clone Wars television series are what he and his handpicked writers reference when adding cinematic adventures to the Star Wars oeuvre.""But Lucas allows for an Expanded Universe that exist parallel to the one he directly oversees. In many cases, the stewards of the Expanded Universe—editors within the licensing division of Lucasfilm Ltd. who works with authors and publishers—will ask for his input or blessing on projects. Though these stories may get his stamp of approval, they don't enter his canon unless they are depicted cinematically in one of his projects.
The Essential Reader's Companion [Oct 2012]
 
@Legion350 With T-canon though, I’m not sure if it can be used for Star Wars (Lucasfilm) because it’s not purely the vision of George Lucas. Dave Filoni had a lot of input into it also.

Also, would Clone Wars Season 7 and the Crystal Crisis episodes be valid to use? There were preproduced before the de-canonization.
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
@Legion350 With T-canon though, I’m not sure if it can be used for Star Wars (Lucasfilm) because it’s not purely the vision of George Lucas. Dave Filoni had a lot of input into it also.

Also, would Clone Wars Season 7 and the Crystal Crisis episodes be valid to use? There were preproduced before the de-canonization.
Click to expand...
I disagree with your argument. If your deciding factor is the purity of vision, then you'd have to exclude most of the OT too. He had input from other people on every movie in the OT with ANH being the only one he wrote by himself. Also, he made a statement admitting to seeing CW as canon, and I've shown you multiple statements where people at Lucasfilm also distinguished Clone Wars as separate from the EU. You're arguing headcanon tbh.
 
Legion350 said:
I disagree with your argument. If your deciding factor is the purity of vision, then you'd have to exclude most of the OT too. He had input from other people on every movie in the OT with ANH being the only one he wrote by himself. Also, he made a statement admitting to seeing CW as canon, and I've shown you multiple statements where people at Lucasfilm also distinguished Clone Wars as separate from the EU. You're arguing headcanon tbh.
Click to expand...
Well, are we going to only focus on G-canon, or do we have no include T-canon?
 
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