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Zenless Zone Zero Discussion Thread

Naito-desu said:
This is a compromise I can get behind, if only just to create a tier separate and more importantly, below, from Void Hunters just because currently, the justification becomes a case of when a Void Hunter joins the fight, suddenly everyone's 8-A.

I wasn't saying she was exaggerating, I was saying she respected it. There's a world of difference between "I don't want to fight" and "Harumasa and I are somewhat comparable in strength" and this statement is supposedly being taken as the latter at face value

I'm going to have to see details of that fight involving Harumasa and Yanagi with Nineveh, as "fight" here is doing heavy lifting without any real context to substantiate it.

I'm okay with the idea that they're a tier of their own above regular agents. We have others like other Yunkui Summit members, Banyue, Zhao, and more impressive Agents that need their own distinction, but I don't agree with just slapping the Miyabi calc on them as a singular rating and having them downscale.
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In Operation Reaper they did fight to prevent her from leaving the Garden and weaken her for the assault, the assault being to lower her activity as she cannot be defeated in the foreseeable future, and they did have some assistance by player picked Agents.
Let’s just say our boy Harumasa reluctantly did all the work. Clearly that one gif of using his ultimate without moving was him in peak form.

Seriously though I apologies on it, it’s more so a feat for Nineveh given it’s HSO and Defense Force joint assualt in sending dozens of squads taking turns in lessening Nineveh’s activity.

I agree on just not putting up the calc and downscaling from it, I’d say an Possibly 8-A crt addition should wait until Bringer is up.
 
bit of a random question, but do we think it would be worth taking stuff like the lost void gears into account for certain characters? a lot of them just give various kinds of buffs, but some of them are a lot more substantial to the point of straight up altering moves and giving characters more abilities (ellen gets an effect that lets her leave icy mist on the ground to deal ice damage over time, astra gets that laser beam move, etc etc. pretty sure miyabi also has a gear that just straight up lets her utilize vital view on her own)
 
Infinity_Dragon said:
In Operation Reaper they did fight to prevent her from leaving the Garden and weaken her for the assault, the assault being to lower her activity as she cannot be defeated in the foreseeable future, and they did have some assistance by player picked Agents.
Let’s just say our boy Harumasa reluctantly did all the work. Clearly that one gif of using his ultimate without moving was him in peak form.

Seriously though I apologies on it, it’s more so a feat for Nineveh given it’s HSO and Defense Force joint assualt in sending dozens of squads taking turns in lessening Nineveh’s activity.

I agree on just not putting up the calc and downscaling from it, I’d say an Possibly 8-A crt addition should wait until Bringer is up.
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No worries, just wanted to make my position clear. Glad we settled it. Seems like a possibly rating may be the way to go
 
Sooshirohl said:
bit of a random question, but do we think it would be worth taking stuff like the lost void gears into account for certain characters? a lot of them just give various kinds of buffs, but some of them are a lot more substantial to the point of straight up altering moves and giving characters more abilities (ellen gets an effect that lets her leave icy mist on the ground to deal ice damage over time, astra gets that laser beam move, etc etc. pretty sure miyabi also has a gear that just straight up lets her utilize vital view on her own)
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I think so but I'm wondering if they should be standard equipment or optional.
 
Naito-desu said:
I think so but I'm wondering if they should be standard equipment or optional.
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considering that they aren't part of the character's base kits and that you mainly get them from a single game mode, i think they probably make more sense as optional equipment
 
Infinity_Dragon said:
Working on Bringer, how’s the stat justification and his abilities currently look to ya’ll?
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It looks pretty good to me honestly.. abilities, justifications, etc look fine, the only things missing are prob the 8-A stats value (AP/Dura) and 8-C stat value in the durability part ig, which you can just copypaste from the section 6 profiles lol
 
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Naito-desu said:
It's really a damn shame that spatial manipulation feats don't yield AP otherwise I'm super confident Miyabi and Void Hunters reach Tier 7
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we'll just have to wait and see what 2.4/2.5 give us. i have no doubt that ye shunguang will probably give us the biggest feat in the series to date, and from there we can make a stronger distinction between the VH level agents and the rest of the cast
 
I'm more invested in this
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The God Dog vs A Wolf Thiren (Lookism vs Zenless Zone Zero) (0-0-0)

Unnecessary lore: The story takes place in Korea. After Johan Seong resigned from the White Tiger office and left Gangbuk, he began a normal, quiet life, until Workers tries to recruit him again, enlisting the services of Victoria Housekeeping. The objective is simple: convince Johan to join...
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I don't think scaling Section 6 to being able to fight Nineveh is very wise.

It's mentioned that only Miyabi can fight Nineveh for an hour solo.

All other operations require combined effort of units with the military.

That compares to Jufufu mentioning that Yixuan fought Gepetto (The only other Symbiotic Ethereal) solo.

I also don't think it'd be really fair to compare other fiends like Miasmic Fiend or Bringer to the Void hunters.

Miyabi clearly is able to overpower second form Bringer (Who is using a replica of her power)

And Miasma Fiend is shown in cutscene to be completely out maneuvered by Yixuan when she takes away its regeneration.

In contrast, Yuzuha on her own can't even keep up with Miasmic Fiend's onslaught and would have died if not being saved.

Manato can't even do anything to assist against Wandering Hunter (Which is just the ethereal of a Military Captain) whilst watching Banyue fight it solo one on one.



I also don't think fighting in a Squad really conveys just how much effort is being put in by all parties involved.

We see that also with Sons of Calydon. It's rather obvious that Caesar is the main fighter against Ethereal Pompey, even though Lucy and Lighter are there.

Lighter Lucy and Piper are unable to definitively beat Mors. While we see not long after that Caesar can lay him out without any effort at all on her part. (I will shoot Lighter some bail because they do highlight that before the fight with Mors that he had to spar with Burnice all day and so he wasn't close to 100%)
 
PandaCooler said:
I don't think scaling Section 6 to being able to fight Nineveh is very wise.

It's mentioned that only Miyabi can fight Nineveh for an hour solo.

All other operations require combined effort of units with the military.

That compares to Jufufu mentioning that Yixuan fought Gepetto (The only other Symbiotic Ethereal) solo.

I also don't think it'd be really fair to compare other fiends like Miasmic Fiend or Bringer to the Void hunters.

Miyabi clearly is able to overpower second form Bringer (Who is using a replica of her power)

And Miasma Fiend is shown in cutscene to be completely out maneuvered by Yixuan when she takes away its regeneration.

In contrast, Yuzuha on her own can't even keep up with Miasmic Fiend's onslaught and would have died if not being saved.

Manato can't even do anything to assist against Wandering Hunter (Which is just the ethereal of a Military Captain) whilst watching Banyue fight it solo one on one.
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Yeah I decided not to use Nineveh for Section 6 after looking back at that event.

Second form Bringer didn’t get stomped by Miyabi solo, he literally fought her and Section 6 together and we have dialogue of both the Proxy and Yanagi warning everyone to he careful and that they should use Disorder to stop his Ether Activity from increasing, they wouldn’t need to do that if Miyabi was just stomping him. The fact his power is attributed to be from Tailess in combination with fighting her with Section 6 should IMO be enough to scale him to that level.
He was only outright overpowered by Miyabi herself in that final attempt to kill em all, said attack is probably one of her most powerful if not the strongest given she’s amped by the memories of her mother when performing the attack.

Don’t know why ya bring up Miasma Fiend, I don’t recall anyone saying it should scale given its fought off by Spook Shack and was literally only an issue because of its regenerative ability, doesn’t help it’s case that Yixuan was IIRC emotional at facing it.

Literally the only characters that can scale to VH level are the extremely powerful Ethereals (Nineveh and Gepetto) and Corrupted/ Sacrifice (Miasma Priest and second form Bringer)
Ain’t gonna argue for the Defiler given she was matched by Orphie and Magus, the former mentioning the fight was easily won thanks to Yixuan.
 
Infinity_Dragon said:
Yeah I decided not to use Nineveh for Section 6 after looking back at that event.

Second form Bringer didn’t get stomped by Miyabi solo, he literally fought her and Section 6 together and we have dialogue of both the Proxy and Yanagi warning everyone to he careful and that they should use Disorder to stop his Ether Activity from increasing, they wouldn’t need to do that if Miyabi was just stomping him. The fact his power is attributed to be from Tailess in combination with fighting her with Section 6 should IMO be enough to scale him to that level.
He was only outright overpowered by Miyabi herself in that final attempt to kill em all, said attack is probably one of her most powerful if not the strongest given she’s amped by the memories of her mother when performing the attack.

Don’t know why ya bring up Miasma Fiend, I don’t recall anyone saying it should scale given its fought off by Spook Shack and was literally only an issue because of its regenerative ability, doesn’t help it’s case that Yixuan was IIRC emotional at facing it.

Literally the only characters that can scale to VH level are the extremely powerful Ethereals (Nineveh and Gepetto) and Corrupted/ Sacrifice (Miasma Priest and second form Bringer)
Ain’t gonna argue for the Defiler given she was matched by Orphie and Magus, the former mentioning the fight was easily won thanks to Yixuan.
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i get the argument, but idk i just feel like isolde/defiler not being VH tier feels weird. like, narratively speaking, she's literally the overseer of the exaltists, and i don't really see any reason why bringer, who was basically just a puppet for the organization, would be stronger than her. i guess you can argue second form bringer amped with the power of tailless would be stronger than her, but idk, i still feel like bringer being in the VH tier of power and isolde/defiler not being there feels wrong
 
I don't think either forms of Isolde are on Yixuan's level.

Just like neither form of Bringer is on Miyabi's

They're likely the closest things we have to the Void hunter rank

(besides the Symbiotes, which are supposed to be stronger than Void Hunters.)

You can certainly argue that they each force the Void Hunters to go full power, but when they do... they're utterly destroyed.

And none of the moments show the Void Hunters strained or exhausted.
 
PandaCooler said:
You can certainly argue that they each force the Void Hunters to go full power, but when they do... they're utterly destroyed.

And none of the moments show the Void Hunters strained or exhausted.
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The attack Miyabi unleashed that overpowered Bringer’s Sacrificial Knife was done with the memories of her mother, it was only then that she completely overpowered Bringer. One can say this to be that trope of remembering the loved ones you lost giving you strength, I don’t see any reason she wouldn’t have done it earlier given it’s his opening move but it’s only in that moment does she overpower him after she and her team beaten him down.

Yixuan visibly struggled to block against the collected Miasma launched by Miasma Priest but after learning of what her sister said to her, Yixuan entered an empowered state, the Qingming Bird glowing gold rather than just becoming huge like in her full power clash with Miyabi, and broke through the Miasma, afterward overpowering and defeating the Miasma Priest herself.

In both cases, I think it’s the VH getting amped by their emotions.
 
I don't consider emotional amps a different level of power. Especially when everything points to the actors being well beyond their situation normally.

You also conveniently left out that Yixuan was still suffering from absorbing the city's worth of miasma and Miyabi had only recently actually properly bonded with Tailless.

Are those attacks amped? Certainly, but they're also attacks well beyond who they use them on. Both attacks absolutely demolish Miasma Priest and Bringer with collateral to spare.
 
PandaCooler said:
I don't consider emotional amps a different level of power. Especially when everything points to the actors being well beyond their situation normally.

You also conveniently left out that Yixuan was still suffering from absorbing the city's worth of miasma and Miyabi had only recently actually properly bonded with Tailless.

Are those attacks amped? Certainly, but they're also attacks well beyond who they use them on. Both attacks absolutely demolish Miasma Priest and Bringer with collateral to spare.
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It’s true that Yixuan was weakened to a lesser extent but I don’t think to tier below as she stated to have mostly recovered.

You say that their well beyond the strength but the thing you state is the reason for them to be vastly above Bringer and Miasma Priest is also when their emotionally strengthened beyond their usual strength? Like again they actually fought Miyabi and Yixuan with their teams and didn’t get flat out stomped solo, Bringer most powerful attack getting outmatched by an memory of mom amped all out attack from Miyabi while Miasma Priest only overpowered and beaten by just Yixuan after her Qingming Bird entered a gold state.

To be clear I think of Miyabi’s all out attacks (The one against Nineveh, the final move on Bringer and the final attack against Yixuan) and Yixuan with full size Qingming Bird (Which clashed with all out Miyabi) as scaling way above their normal AP (8-A), I’m scaling Bringer and Miasma Priest more around their normal AP.
 
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No one's posted a sandbox so I can only guess it hasn't been made yet or isn't in the works
 
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