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(2 STAFF NEED) Genshin Low 2-C Downgrade

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Where did it say the sun is small?

Microcosmos refers to the world of the dragons before the Primordial One recreated it.

I just need evidence to disprove that the world within the shell is not universal, while the Musika Mundana and the Lunar Arcanum texts already explain that the world within the shell is universal.

Yes, fake sky is also called the border of the world, that's why there are 2 suns, outside and inside the fake sky, because these are 2 different world.

therefore skirk calls it a false universe, which has such a real vastness and majesty. there is also an real universe, the universe that lies beyond the borders of the world. So in Genshin there are really 2 universes, real and fake.

The universe created by Phanes is a universe sized 93 billion light years.
and the real universe is actually infinite in size (here, here and here) . the universe explored by surtalogi, octavia and traveler.
You can just compare skirk size to the egg shell and it's pretty clear it's not universal size. Just because skirk said "real universe" doesn't mean teyvat planet is false universe. It's just a way of saying and doesn't even indicate the world inside egg shell is a universe.

The universe created by Phanes is 93 billion light years? Can you even read? I don't want to shit on people but this is a whole another level of reading comprehension issue. Read this text
Though there is no meaning in this world within an eggshell,
The "fortune" we speak of is not some false metaphor,
The narrator is saying although fate has not meaning in this world inside an eggshell, it's not a metaphor. But it has real meaning in the universe by following up this sentence.
In 14 billion "years" of darkness,
It is the sum of all that is destined to happen and all that never will.
"It" here meaning the "fortune" mentioned above. Thus, it has a meaning out there in the universe. Because the fate of Teyvat is controlled and arranged by Primordial One. More over genshin universe is similar to our real universe considering the showcase of solar system in web event, the size of the universe being 93 billions light year and the age being 14 billion years.

This shouldn't even be in this discussion if you read the text carefully. I am disappointed.
 
“Teyvat is universe sized!!” when mavuika just punches into sky and suddenly it breaks
or how it absolutely makes sense for a planet to be covered in barrier that spans the observable universe while the false sky is literally just above clouds in skirk animated short
for how long are we gonna use unconfirmed and unbacked up statements just to put verse as high as possible
like tell me where is the logic of “eggshell” being universe sized when
Skirk enters teyvat and shes just above clouds
Mavuika sends her beam unto sky (again above clouds) and sky breaks
 
“Teyvat is universe sized!!” when mavuika just punches into sky and suddenly it breaks
or how it absolutely makes sense for a planet to be covered in barrier that spans the observable universe while the false sky is literally just above clouds in skirk animated short
for how long are we gonna use unconfirmed and unbacked up statements just to put verse as high as possible
like tell me where is the logic of “eggshell” being universe sized when
Skirk enters teyvat and shes just above clouds
Mavuika sends her beam unto sky (again above clouds) and sky breaks
I second this
 
The main argument here, from what I can gather, is that Phanes' Mundane Music does not control the universe. Since there are two systems of destiny: the one that controls the universe and the one in Teyvat. In the Low 2-C thread, a distinction was made between the two systems and why Phanes controlled both. I can't see a real refutation here. So I disagree.
 
The main argument here, from what I can gather, is that Phanes' Mundane Music does not control the universe. Since there are two systems of destiny: the one that controls the universe and the one in Teyvat. In the Low 2-C thread, a distinction was made between the two systems and why Phanes controlled both. I can't see a real refutation here. So I disagree.
The distinction in the last thread is about muscia humana and musica mundana. OP of last thread claimed Primordial one controls musica mundana this it's universal. I am proving how musica mundana is not universal. I told twice that you need to read before you comment here.
 
You can just compare skirk size to the egg shell and it's pretty clear it's not universal size. Just because skirk said "real universe" doesn't mean teyvat planet is false universe. It's just a way of saying and doesn't even indicate the world inside egg shell is a universe.
So what are you trying to explain here? It's called the universe but it's not the universe, I'm just asking for something very simple, prove that it's not universal not just with an explanation but without showing any evidence.
The universe created by Phanes is 93 billion light years? Can you even read? I don't want to shit on people but this is a whole another level of reading comprehension issue. Read this text

The narrator is saying although fate has not meaning in this world inside an eggshell, it's not a metaphor. But it has real meaning in the universe by following up this sentence.
Yes, he explained that fate is not just a metaphor, and there is a cycle in it, without this cycle the universe would feel lonely, so? what went wrong? clearly it explains what happened inside the shell
"It" here meaning the "fortune" mentioned above. Thus, it has a meaning out there in the universe. Because the fate of Teyvat is controlled and arranged by Primordial One. More over genshin universe is similar to our real universe considering the showcase of solar system in web event, the size of the universe being 93 billions light year and the age being 14 billion years.

This shouldn't even be in this discussion if you read the text carefully. I am disappointed.
Yes, fate and cycles are also contained within the shell.

"It" does refer to fate, and this lunar arcanum explains Istaroth, who governs these cycles, as Istaroth is also called the mother of 14 billion years.

which proves that destiny is universal.
 
The distinction in the last thread is about muscia humana and musica mundana. OP of last thread claimed Primordial one controls musica mundana this it's universal. I am proving how musica mundana is not universal. I told twice that you need to read before you comment here.
The text literally says "Universal." What I read from your refutation is that it is not Universal because Phanes did not change the fate of the Universe and descended to Teyvat and divided the elements and placed a barrier over the world. This doesn't really seem like a rebuttal to me; it seems like a hasty attempt to undo the low 2-C level. Furthermore, what I highlighted in bold seems quite rude to me.
 
Just saying, outside the words "Universal" we literally have not seen any of the musica mundana shit actually affect entire teyvat, in fact the entire quest where we learn this story takes place within Reimuria. Literally
If you want to prove all of this you need either feat or another statement backing up the whatever flowery statements of "universe" is about
The 93 billion ly and 14B years barely even refer to teyvat, its makes logically no sense for a planet covered in false sky that reaches just above clouds to be that big. otherwise even Azdaha would be tier 2 for shaking teyvat itself.
 
Yes, fate and cycles are also contained within the shell.

"It" does refer to fate, and this lunar arcanum explains Istaroth, who governs these cycles, as Istaroth is also called the mother of 14 billion years.

which proves that destiny is universal.
I am not gonna argue about that anymore because seems like you can't read English properly. I will leave that for evaluation for staffs.

Now you are making things up? "Mother of 14 billion years"? None of that is written there. Also in the deep galleries artifect description, it's said that the world of Teyvat is at the edge of spiral arm which is clearly referenced to our solar system. The 14 billion years and 93 billion light years are talking about the universe, not the world inside eggshell..
It came from an unremarkable little world at the edge of the spiral arm — and from the primeval dragon that had been born alongside that world.
- Finale of deep galleries
How did you come into the conclusion of the world inside the egg shell being 93 billion light years size? Moreover Skirk fell into the eggshell which didn't even take her 93 billion years or even half of it (even in light speed). How could it be for the world inside egg shell to be 93 billion light years. I am baffled.
 
villainess-level-99-yumiella-sword-swinging-villainess-level-99.gif
 
I am not gonna argue about that anymore because seems like you can't read English properly. I will leave that for evaluation for staffs.
Yes, wait the staff
Now you are making things up? "Mother of 14 billion years"? None of that is written there. Also in the deep galleries artifect description, it's said that the world of Teyvat is at the edge of spiral arm which is clearly referenced to our solar system. The 14 billion years and 93 billion light years are talking about the universe, not the world inside eggshell..

How did you come into the conclusion of the world inside the egg shell being 93 billion light years size? Moreover Skirk fell into the eggshell which didn't even take her 93 billion years or even half of it (even in light speed). How could it be for the world inside egg shell to be 93 billion light years. I am baffled.
Yes, Skirk is even capable of exploring the universe outside the shell, so her falling doesn't prove anything; it would depend on further context.

For example, if A is able to cover an infinite distance in 1 second, would we dispute that distance? Obviously not. It's the character who would gain an ability from the feat he performed.
 

Although I agree that the scan is legit, Istaroth being the mother of 14 billion years has nothing to do with the world inside egg shell being 93 billion light years in size.
The text in Wheel of fortune clearly made a distinction between the world inside egg shell and in the 14 billion years of darkness. Fortune has no meaning inside the eggshell but it's the sum of all that's destined to happen in the 14 billion years of darkness. It's a comparison sentence. Even if she is connected the origin of the universe, it's impossible because Phanes only came into existence not long before he broke out of his egg and use that to make fake sky. Only after that Istaroth was created. So without any further evidences, the evidences we have are conflicting with each other making it vague.
 
Although I agree that the scan is legit, Istaroth being the mother of 14 billion years has nothing to do with the world inside egg shell being 93 billion light years in size.
The text in Wheel of fortune clearly made a distinction between the world inside egg shell and in the 14 billion years of darkness. Fortune has no meaning inside the eggshell but it's the sum of all that's destined to happen in the 14 billion years of darkness. It's a comparison sentence. Even if she is connected the origin of the universe, it's impossible because Phanes only came into existence not long before he broke out of his egg and use that to make fake sky. Only after that Istaroth was created. So without any further evidences, the evidences we have are conflicting with each other making it vague.
I have explained to you before that the description of the lunar arcanum is a description that explains Istaroth herself, that's why she is called the mother of 14 billion years, yeah, this is just going around in circles, so it's better to wait for the staff
 
Hello? The tier is just changed like a few hours ago after that thread is accepted, how can you make this already?
 
Imma be honest, you are debunking nothing, i don't see any strong arguments in here.

Your main point here is that Phanes created the False Sky and only governs fate through it and the constellations.

So you forget that the Constellations/Musica Humana are also part of Musica Mundana, or Universal Music, because they are similar to Fortuna.
Any music with specifications similar to Fortuna can be called Musica Mundana, for it itself would be equal to an entire world......Just as Cassiodor taught you before, the "Fortuna" we speak of here and the Sebastos's have no... ...latter is named for the former, while the former is the "rules" that governs all things, the "fate" of which slaves speak......
……这里,你们应当注意普世音律与法图纳之间的关联。后者包含于前者, 前者却不等同于后者。任何规格与法图纳相近的音律,均可被称作普世音律,因为其自身便与一个世界等同………

正如卡西奥多此前向你们讲授过的那样,我们所谈论的「法图纳」与至尊并无………后者以前者为名,前者实为主宰万物普遍现象的「规则」,即是奴仆口中的「命运」………
(Here, you should note the connection between universal music and Fortuna. The latter is contained within the former, but the former is not identical to the latter. Any musical scale similar to Fortuna can be called universal music, because it is itself equivalent to a world

As Cassiodor previously taught you, the “Fortuna” we speak of is not the same as the Supreme One… The latter takes its name from the former; the former is actually the “rule” that governs all universal phenomena, which is what the servants call “fate”…)


Thats it, thats just your argument right there by only saying "Teyvat has its own laws" and "Phanes only governs fate and laws in Teyvat through the false sky", but never debunking that Phanes the Shades doesn't have Universal Framework and only use arguments of disbelief without evidence that disprove them.

Whats funny is, i am 100% for sure that those who agree with this crt are COMPLETELY DON'T UNDERSTAND at all about all of these and that previous CRT, They just hate Genshin at High-Tier, thats it.
 
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I am proving how musica mundana is not universal. I told twice that you need to read before you comment here.
In CN, Musica Mundana = Universal Music btw.
…………普世音律即是本源的音律。一切音律因之而起,因之而终。虚假与真实的星象(即内与外、下与上的星象,优恩尼娅会向你们详述这部分内容), 季节与时岁的往复,被划定的元素,宇宙中的一切都遵循这种音律的秩序运行…
(Universal music is the fundamental rhythm. All rhythms arise from it and end from it. The illusory and real celestial phenomena (i.e., inner and outer, lower and upper celestial phenomena, which Uegertia will explain in detail), the cycle of seasons and years, the defined elements—everything in the universe operates according to the order of this rhythm...)


……这里,你们应当注意普世音律与法图纳之间的关联。后者包含于前者, 前者却不等同于后者。任何规格与法图纳相近的音律,均可被称作普世音律,因为其自身便与一个世界等同………

正如卡西奥多此前向你们讲授过的那样,我们所谈论的「法图纳」与至尊并无………后者以前者为名,前者实为主宰万物普遍现象的「规则」,即是奴仆口中的「命运」………
(Here, you should note the connection between universal music and Fortuna. The latter is contained within the former, but the former is not identical to the latter. Any musical scale similar to Fortuna can be called universal music, because it is itself equivalent to a world

As Cassiodor previously taught you, the “Fortuna” we speak of is not the same as the Supreme One… The latter takes its name from the former; the former is actually the “rule” that governs all universal phenomena, which is what the servants call “fate”…)

………凡灵音律即是俗世的音律。凡人与诸神的音律并无不同,均可被归为此类,因为它们的本质都是普世音律敲击灵魂质体的和音…

……想象一架竖琴,世间每一个实体都对应着这竖琴上的一根细微的弦丝 …………那宏伟的乐声并非来自单独的琴弦,而是来自所有琴弦的共振……这样的乐曲便是我们所说的普世音律………
(…The music of mortals is the music of the mundane world. The music of mortals and gods is no different; both can be categorized into this type, because their essence is the harmony of universal music striking the soul…

…Imagine a harp; every entity in the world corresponds to a tiny string on this harp… The magnificent music does not come from a single string, but from the resonance of all the strings… Such music is what we call universal music…)

………你们拨弄琴弦的末端,其中段也会随之振荡,发出悦耳的声响。然而你们并没有直接触碰到弦的中段,它之所以发出声响,只是因为它依附于………

我需要向你们强调的是,正如弦的比喻那般,凡人与诸神的音律是能够被奏响的,就好像你们也可以选择拨弄琴弦的中段,而非末端。也正是因为如此,凡灵音律可以取代普世音律,这一点我们会在稍后进行论述………
(…When you pluck the end of a string, the middle section vibrates and produces a pleasant sound. However, you haven't directly touched the middle section; it produces sound only because it is attached to…

I need to emphasize that, just as with the analogy of the string, the music of mortals and gods can be played, just as you can choose to pluck the middle section of a string instead of the end. It is precisely for this reason that spiritual music can replace universal music, a point we will discuss later…)
 
Now that we know Primordial One can't influence the entire universe
正如卡西奥多此前向你们讲授过的那样,我们所谈论的「法图纳」与至尊并无………后者以前者为名,前者实为主宰万物普遍现象的「规则」,即是奴仆口中的「命运」……… As Cassiodor previously taught you, the “Fortuna” we speak of is not the same as the Supreme One… The latter takes its name from the former; the former is actually the “rule” that governs all universal phenomena, which is what the servants call “fate”…
 
Whats funny is that here “Universal” doesnt have to mean Universe,
Term Universal could literally mean this
So the thing is Music here isnt Universal level it literally has nothing to do with music controling universe 😪
Yeah but what if i told you that its actually the universe?

普世音律即是本源的音律。一切音律因之而起,因之而终。虚假与真实的星象(即内与外、下与上的星象,优恩尼娅会向你们详述这部分内容), 季节与时岁的往复,被划定的元素,宇宙中的一切都遵循这种音律的秩序运行…
(Universal music is the fundamental rhythm. All rhythms arise from it and end from it. The illusory and real celestial phenomena (i.e., inner and outer, lower and upper celestial phenomena, which Uegertia will explain in detail), the cycle of seasons and years, the defined elements—everything in the universe operates according to the order of this rhythm...)
 
Yeah but what if i told you that its actually the universe?
yet the world quest relating to all of this is just a sub region of fontaine btw
Like literally name me a feat that music did to affect the universe
name me one instance where all of this applied outside remuria bro
 
yet the world quest relating to all of this is just a sub region of fontaine btw
So what if its just a sub-region quest? That doesn't mean its not reliable. And mind you, most of the information we got in Genshin are not from the main quest which is the Archon Quest.
Like literally name me a feat that music did to affect the universe
name me one instance where all of this applied outside remuria bro
Yeah, Skirk literally coming from the other planet and yet still affected to this fate. Surtalogi is already destined to cross a path with Skirk who's in other planet even before he left Teyvat.

And EVEN NOW, Surtalogi who's currently traveling the universe still bound to this fate.
 
So what if its just a sub-region quest? That doesn't mean its not reliable. And mind you, most of the information we got in Genshin are not from the main quest which is the Archon Quest.
Because ur proving my point, that music whatever yadi yadi yada is literally hust some
hyperbolic slop yall use for agenda
Yeah, Skirk literally coming from the other planet and yet still affected to this fate. Surtalogi is already destined to cross a path with Skirk who's in other planet even before he left Teyvat.

And EVEN NOW, Surtalogi who's currently traveling the universe still bound to this fate.
be for real, what fate are they bound by? the one from heavenly principles which literally makes sense or some music shit no one cares abt, literally u wont find any other region affected by music, but entire teyvat? its literally controlled by HP thats so simple
 
no, it's not hyperbole
Sure, burden of proof
I have proven and explained, I have not seen any evidence of refutation.
Ur being intellectually dishonest, he low key told u everything
Like literally name me a feat that music did to affect the universe
name me one instance where all of this applied outside remuria bro
Never ask Sahl a feat from Fortuna outside of a underwater city
Yeah, Skirk literally coming from the other planet and yet still affected to this fate. Surtalogi is already destined to cross a path with Skirk who's in other planet even before he left Teyvat.

And EVEN NOW, Surtalogi who's currently traveling the universe still bound to this fate.
This would mean that everyone who puts a feet in teyvat, except Descender are bounded by fate, so it would only apply once the character set foot in the planet, strong Fate Manip
 
like even if that fate shit is universal its LITERALLY range, not a single thing outside istaroth “hde” and existing across all time (shes just omnipresent thats all) is warrating tier 2
 
Because ur proving my point, that music whatever yadi yadi yada is literally hust some
hyperbolic slop yall use for agenda
If you still confused what is this "music", its basically Fate.

It ain't no hyperbolic, thats just a common knowledge in genshin, you just refused to believe it.
be for real, what fate are they bound by?
What fate they bound by? Musica Mundana a.k.a Universal Music, in another word, Fortuna.

Teyvat's fate are called Musica Humana, which where music (fate) of Gods and Humans are no different, both can be played (manipulate)

But since Musica Humana are similar to Fortuna, it can also be called Musica Mundana.
 
If you still confused what is this "music", its basically Fate.

It ain't no hyperbolic, thats just a common knowledge in genshin, you just refused to believe it.

What fate they bound by? Musica Mundana a.k.a Universal Music, in another word, Fortuna.

Teyvat's fate are called Musica Humana, which where music (fate) of Gods and Humans are no different, both can be played (manipulate)

But since Musica Humana are similar to Fortuna, it can also be called Musica Mundana.
Okay so..how does this give tier 2 ap? how is a hax enough for tier 2 ap
 
What fate they bound by? Musica Mundana a.k.a Universal Music, in another word, Fortuna.

Teyvat's fate are called Musica Humana, which where music (fate) of Gods and Humans are no different, both can be played (manipulate)
So u just admitted Musica Mundana would be just stack up Fate Manip, lmao
 
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