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I wouldn't mind them together either, I just think they don't have their own character half the time.
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
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Also a lot of conversion about them now are "THEY ARE LESBIANS THEY ARE LESBIANS" which really sucks the air out of conversation about other things. And I really hate to feel like its true, but a lot of their stories have featured trauma talk and crying.
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Yeah, I feel like people complain about tokenism and when they see hints or implications, they basically MAKE it into that very thing. It just turns these characters that otherwise could have had more depth into a singular trait they're known for. I'd like literally anything that isn't just them being super ultra gay and being just people with their own stories and personality that, just maybe, so happen to be romantically-involved or at the very least enjoy each others' presence and not have it be all they do.
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Sega allows the Werehog to appear, probably because it's a form only indirectly caused by Dark Gaia, not like Chip himself.
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Now you know how Blaze fans have felt for a long time, having her forcefully paired with Silver repeatedly (even tho 06 literally contributed nothing good nor consistent to her backstory and lore) despite having to write around time travel, dimensional travel, royal responsibilities, etc to have them interact let alone "organically". Some fans are desperate for a year of Silver (even tho Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Metal Sonic and even Eggman are far more marketable characters) which usually entails him being a lead while Blaze is a mere accessory at best, yet in many discussions I've seen about Blaze in the Sonic community, Silver nearly always gets brought up to usually "share" (steal) her limelight yet the same thing rarely happens when Silver is the main subject of the discussion (e.g in the popluar current AU it's Silver, Metal Sonic and Omega Vs Neo Sage, while Shadow is either sealed away or is a jaded 3rd party. Yet no mention of Blaze).
I already don't like most Sonic ships (Vector X Vanilla being the least offensive one) but with Tangle and Whisper being a clear pairing Sega wants to market (regardless if it's platonic or not), I can't help but feel bad for those who like them as individual characters as well as those who think they're cute together but that's the character lead struggle every fan has to go through who likes any major character not named Sonic or Eggman.
Also not to sound facetious but Sega would sooner give Blaze and Silver a leading playable role in the next mainline game, have Mighty, Ray, Honey, etc appear in the current 3D era and announce SA1/SA2 remasters with SA3 being planned for 2030 before having an openly LGBT+ character (let alone pairing) among the main cast.
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Poor Blaze is worst treated main cast after Shadow in IDW. Big oof. At least she essentially got 2 games.
Sonic Reddit seems to like Sonic x Blaze recently. Probably not a good thing tho lol
Tbh Sonic shouldnt do shipping much. Amy crushes on Sonic, thats about it. Vector lusting Vanilla is bit funny so it gets a pass too.
Sonic Reddit seems to like Sonic x Blaze recently. Probably not a good thing tho lol
Tbh Sonic shouldnt do shipping much. Amy crushes on Sonic, thats about it. Vector lusting Vanilla is bit funny so it gets a pass too.
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Is Nintendolife a usable source? I've seen it listed repeatedly on Sonic Retro.
Galactidot
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Ian Flynn quite literally intended for them to be in a relationship but Sega said no...
Nothing is cringe about these two's relationship.
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pretty sure they have a rule against ANY romance whatsoever... so hey
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not from the begining no, he eventually started to like the idea tho
Galactidot
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Okay then, but he's still the freaking writer tho. It's his comic.
People are fine with Sonic and Amy even though Sonic was clearly uncomfortable for the longest while...
But the moment Whisper and Tangle are a thing, people are going on about how "forced" it is?
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I mean technically Sonic x Amy also isnt actually happening lol
Shipping shouldnt be a big thing in Sonic.
Shipping shouldnt be a big thing in Sonic.
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Yeah, this. Of all ships, Whispangle is probably never happening officially.
TheStinkeer
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I actually agree when it comes to new characters. Since they're, you know, new
That being said I think the mandates of no romance on existing characters should never be removed ngl
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Thing is... Sonic was never "umcorfortable" in the sense of "ew, stop" more so as "haha, stop it"
As in, Amy was always a close friend of his, that he knew loved him, but he still was close to her... in fact, the japanese scripts seem to imply he only doesn't "get together" with her cuz he just isn't the type of person to do that. Not cuz he doesn't like her
I have no qualms about TxW... but i see the vision, can be cute
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That's not what I said. If you were reading, I said I don't care if these two are in a relationship. My problem is that people keep focusing on that one aspect instead of literally anything else about their character. They don't FEEL like their own characters and fans often focusing on how gay they are instead of how they are actual characters who have more to them than just a relationship they have kind of sucks. These characters are more than who they're with.
Please be more prudent to actually reading and analyzing what I actually have to say instead of skimming through and attempting to absorb the bare minimum and misinterpret it due to a lack of depthful understand of what I was talking about. I emphasized this multiple times and if that didn't get through, I do not think it is a lapse in my own wording. Reading is an essential skill. Use it.
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I never thought of Silver and Blaze as "Silver and Blaze" because I just like each character for their own individual reasons. Honestly, I am more interested in what Silver's own future is like without any of the other characters. It'd be cool if he had his own crew that he prowled around in the future.
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Maybe it's because it happens far too fast. If it happened gradually over time and not practically immediately, if the implications are what I think they are with them possibly already being together, then it may be liked more. It's not that these characters don't have chemistry or that people hate lesbians (unless you're a cringe homophobe), it's that it doesn't happen in a timely manner and feels almost like it happened in the background. Ian Flynn did this with Sally and Nicole too, and it felt strange then because of how either sudden or oddly-placed it was. I think it's less of an LGBT thing and that Ian is just not a good writer when it comes to romance or relationships.
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Boooo!
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Hate all you want, the factd are foreverBoooo!
MysticMania
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Sadly so. SEGA's not only stingy on how Sonic characters are handled (a character is basically only ever allowed to develop as far as their intial pitch went it seems with the game origated characters not being allowed to change at all), but they're also company.
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MysticMania
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Also, I'm not into Vector x Vanilla myself. I don't have any issue with it but the only character Vanilla's been allowed to have is "mom". Also Vector's cute so he should get with me instead tbh
TheStinkeer
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Actually I lowk wanna share my madness. I'll mainly be copying and pasting from the doc
The Game Itself
So, for Time Eater’s erasure, let’s first look at the game itself and why erasure is at least a valid interpretation of what’s going on, until we get into the bigger stuff.
First things first, our biggest source of evidence is in the cutscene after restoring Seaside Hill. Classic Tails states that Time Eater consumes the dimensional energy, leaving behind a lifeless, white void. Tails goes on to say that the Sonics are restoring space-time, with people being affected by it as well. So dimensional energy = space and time, further supported earlier when Tails states it’s like the Time Eater could consume time. We know White Space is a realm without time, it’s emphasized and reinforced multiple times, and these places become part of this void which naturally means they have no time or space. What’s interesting to note is that the Sonics must restore it, with some definitions of restore meaning to “bring back into existence.” Eggman supports this by saying he’ll “erase that line and reshape it as I see fit!” in response to Tails telling him about the damage done to the timeline. Now, could this just be flowery language? Yes. But this is an in-game statement which can reasonably be interpreted to mean a literal erase given the context of the game and what’s going on, especially when he doesn’t say something like consuming that line or simply only saying “rewrite” or “reshape.”
Before I move on, Another interesting thing is that the areas get a “???” when you first interact with them. This could be simply a thing for new players but once again it adds to the erasure interpretation, as if its very identity was removed and all that’s left is the white void until the Sonics/Shadow start running through it.
The Original (and JP) script
Now, let’s look outside the game, but not the external sources such as interviews and such, as we’ll look at them below in the “External Evidence” section. For now, we’ll briefly look at the original script and Japanese script. You may think these are completely unusable since Generations is an english written game and was rewritten, however:
Before we go on to the external sources, here’s my take on some possible counterarguments:
Then from here, I let scans take over the document, as well as a final conclusion where I state my thoughts on what the erasure adds to Sonic's character. You can find a lot of them on the imgur album. Though there is one that isn't found on the album which is another Iizuka interview which pretty much says the Time Eater is erasing time. And ofc space is also erased given the context.
So, for Time Eater’s erasure, let’s first look at the game itself and why erasure is at least a valid interpretation of what’s going on, until we get into the bigger stuff.
First things first, our biggest source of evidence is in the cutscene after restoring Seaside Hill. Classic Tails states that Time Eater consumes the dimensional energy, leaving behind a lifeless, white void. Tails goes on to say that the Sonics are restoring space-time, with people being affected by it as well. So dimensional energy = space and time, further supported earlier when Tails states it’s like the Time Eater could consume time. We know White Space is a realm without time, it’s emphasized and reinforced multiple times, and these places become part of this void which naturally means they have no time or space. What’s interesting to note is that the Sonics must restore it, with some definitions of restore meaning to “bring back into existence.” Eggman supports this by saying he’ll “erase that line and reshape it as I see fit!” in response to Tails telling him about the damage done to the timeline. Now, could this just be flowery language? Yes. But this is an in-game statement which can reasonably be interpreted to mean a literal erase given the context of the game and what’s going on, especially when he doesn’t say something like consuming that line or simply only saying “rewrite” or “reshape.”
Before I move on, Another interesting thing is that the areas get a “???” when you first interact with them. This could be simply a thing for new players but once again it adds to the erasure interpretation, as if its very identity was removed and all that’s left is the white void until the Sonics/Shadow start running through it.
The Original (and JP) script
Now, let’s look outside the game, but not the external sources such as interviews and such, as we’ll look at them below in the “External Evidence” section. For now, we’ll briefly look at the original script and Japanese script. You may think these are completely unusable since Generations is an english written game and was rewritten, however:
- Pontac and Graff are still credited as writers for the game, with the story being fundamentally the same minus the rewording. It also helps that the SXSG script is more like a rewording rather than a full on rewrite. We can look to this for extra support.
- It has been revealed that SEGA/Sonic Team were heavily involved in the creation of these scripts. Though this isn’t as major a point as Pontac and Graff did state they had a bit more input on the story of Generations
- Finally, Sonic is a Japanese IP, with the script being unchanged there despite SEGA of Japan’s involvement in SxSG and the writing. Sonic Generations was primarily developed in Japan, so of course while it’s not the original script, we can look to it for support.
- Sonic and Tails not remembering Green Hill and Chemical Plant
- Amy cutscenes
- Word changes
- Classic Sonic ate Angel island
- Eggman doesn’t mention traps or flinging Sonic’s friends through time, but the latter is still visually shown and stated.
- About it.
Before we go on to the external sources, here’s my take on some possible counterarguments:
- White Space being called a “space” could contradict the erasure of space, along with Omega calling it a space. However, the “space” in White Space should refer to the area, not the spatial aspect of it. Even if we assume it is actually a space, then it’s a space that can contain erased space as seen by the lore and statements. It’s even once referred to as a “ceaseless expanse” with space often being used with time to describe it being messed up. Omega says that the destabilization of space-time continues, and that he is eager to return to normal space and time. Gerald deduced there are space-time anomalies at play after calling it a temporal anomaly, and space-time will settle and shift back into place.
- As for Sonic’s resistance, some areas having some color doesn’t change Sonic resisting the erasure. In Green Hill’s first appearance there was absolutely no color or anything. And this is the same exact place Classic Sonic was attacked in with the same attack TE used to erase Space Colony ARK and survived. + the Sonics and Shadow are counteracting the effects of the Time Eater with time (and likely space as they’re connected) being able to “heal itself” according to Gerald. Plus with Space Colony ARK, while we do see it have color right after the erasure, it’s immediately followed up with the restoration cutscene.
- Another thing to note for Sonic’s resistance, the survival of Big, Cubot, and Orbot could contradict this, but I disagree. These three are mostly gag characters, Big even has a whole gag about ending up in the most stupid places and living, like in the Arabian Nights. And Orbot and Cubot were made by Eggman, the same guy who made Omega. Maria and Gerald shouldn’t be brought up either, as they are there specifically because of Black Doom’s influence, and nearly everything else is also there because of Black Doom’s influence. Finally, White Space being in Crossworlds means Dodon Pa possibly survived. But he’s also pretty damn ridiculous like Big
- As for the process of consumption to erasure, this is something the game itself just doesn’t line up on, and the visuals don’t even match. So here’s what I got, the Time Eater’s AoE attack consumes the area in its light, as we see, things caught in its light are then consumed in it, then it removes/erases time and space as an effect of it, and finally it is sent to White Space where it is reduced to part of the white void. Basically, imagine the bright light Time Eater makes is a huge mouth and you, your house, and your friends are caught in it. You are all then eaten like a delicious all-you-can-eat buffet and then swallowed which sends everyone to White Space as it erases everyone's dimensional energy which erases them as well as your house, causing all of it to become part of the white void, but you are unaffected.
Then from here, I let scans take over the document, as well as a final conclusion where I state my thoughts on what the erasure adds to Sonic's character. You can find a lot of them on the imgur album. Though there is one that isn't found on the album which is another Iizuka interview which pretty much says the Time Eater is erasing time. And ofc space is also erased given the context.
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Do you think Eggman was planning to destroy the Earth with the Final Weapon had Sonic failed to bring it down? Despite the Death Egg already being destroyed, the succeeding zone is called Doomsday Zone, implying the Earth was in danger of being destroyed. Sonic & Knuckles Collection also implies Eggman was going to destroy the Earth some way.
TheStinkeer
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Hmmm I don't think so? The story didn't really strike me as Eggman trying to destroy the world and "save the world from destruction" could be referring to what Eggman plans to do with the world should he roam free which would destroy the world in the sense that it'll be in a worse off state
ShakeResounding
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I missed a mini Romance Discourse. Damn.
Favorite ship: Sonic x Amy
Least favorite ship: Big x Shadow
Crackship: Cheese the Chao x Yacker the Wisp. Make it happen, Sonic Team.
Favorite ship: Sonic x Amy
- Reason: I mean, besides the obvious? I like the idea of Amy and Sonic being a nomadic power couple. It allows for Sonic to remain Sonic (unlike the heinous King Sonic idea), and unironically let's Amy do that weird "spread love around the world" while not making it seem out-of-nowhere and forced like in Frontiers.
- Honorable Mention: Knuckles x Rouge.
Least favorite ship: Big x Shadow
- Reason: I just cannot take this premise seriously in literally ANY way. From what I gather it's just "small meanie, big softie" with no connections beyond "They spoke this one time lol"
- (Dis)Honorable Mention: Anything pairing adults/teenagers with children (because duh). Sonic x Tails is particularly disgusting to me.
Crackship: Cheese the Chao x Yacker the Wisp. Make it happen, Sonic Team.
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Wait seriously? That's a thing?
ShakeResounding
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Yep. It was nothing more than a crackship, but interactions between them across Shadow Gens and CrossWorlds has made it more of a serious one that has been floating around.
You know how people are, give them an inch of interaction between two characters and they take a mile. Not just the Sonic fandom, either.
Fezzih_007
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That kinda sounds like a crackship.
I just checked how many fanfics have of that on ao3(
) and It have 13.
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I don't really care about romance stuff, but isn't this sort of hypocritical? Amy is 12, isn't she? That's one year away from being a teenager.
ShakeResounding
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I promise you that until a few months ago it legitimately was.
Like I said, Shadow Gens and CrossWorlds gave it that small extra push in their minds. Eh, whatever thoughI just checked how many fanfics have of that on ao3(
Kinda surpring that It reaches Double digits.
Japan's power couple...
Galactidot
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oh damn that's technically true
ShakeResounding
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Unless you live in a reality where it's still the 90s and Classic Sonic is still a 16 year old, then no.
Genuine question; do you pay attention to the lore and retcons of this series or not? Seems like a redundant point.
ShakeResounding
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Amy hasn't been 12 for a loooooong time.
Unless you believe they can charge a 12 year old girl with leading the Restoration after a literal war.
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Well, I mean, Sonic has a statement in a VHS saying he can freely go from child to adult.
ShakeResounding
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Ad this takes priority over ages being decanonized... how?
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Or alternatively, mobians have a different life cycle than humans...
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They were decanonized? When?
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